Stone Ocean
Member
Welcome to the most bloated job in the game. May your hotbars weep.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.
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brandonh83
Banned
Funnily enough I saw that image a few days ago
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dragoon_Guide
How is this rotation? Thing is, I know it's changed here and there over time so I'm not sure what's up to date. What I'll do for now is get some of the cross-class skills as suggested, at least it'd be a start.
Dps rotations make my head hurt too so I became a healer. To me it seems much more straightforward (as long as you don't let anyone die people will rarely complain, if you're contributing dps you're basically treated like god's gift to mmos in DF groups) and more fun. Maybe give that a try? I dabble with smn and while it's fun to blow up groups of mobs in dungeons I don't think I could do it at a high level.
Stone Ocean
Member
That's the level 50 rotation, it's obsolete these days. Try this insteadFunnily enough I saw that image a few days ago
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Dragoon_Guide
How is this rotation? Thing is, I know it's changed here and there over time so I'm not sure what's up to date. What I'll do for now is get some of the cross-class skills as suggested, at least it'd be a start.
brandonh83
Banned
I've considered this as well as Bard. I feel like if I could just get it all to click that it would be rewarding and even badass. I've just already put a lot of time into the class and I don't really want to start from scratch as it's such an extended ordeal. I'll stick with it a bit more and see what happens. I just want to be having fun; it's my first MMO tbh and I have had a lot of fun with it up until the post-game content where all of a sudden I've discovered I'm terrible at it haha.
I didn't think I was because I had been faring very well until this point.
I've seen this and it just confuses the hell out of me. But I'll keep it open and study it a bit more and try to wrap my head around it as I'm sippin coffee.
Another thing is that I don't have Blood of the Dragon yet, as well as the cross-class skills, so I can't utilize this setup to its fullest.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I don't even have some of those skills yet
I did read about cross-class skills but I'm not sure if they're absolutely mandatory that I get 'em. I am poring over what setup you just wrote about though and appreciate it.
When I'm doing the rotation, is there a certain rhythm to activating things? I have it set up currently to where I start with R2 and the face buttons, expire those, R2 and d-pad actions, L2/face, L2/pad. Maybe I'm activating certain skills at incorrect intervals.
It might help to understand why they tell you to do things in a particular order.
IIRC the really basic rotation if you're level fifty is;
1. Heavy Thrust (You use this first because it gives you +15% damage)
2. Impulse Drive - Armor reduction/Damage over time combo starter
3. Disembowel (This reduces piercing defense by 10% which is the damage type used by Dragoons/Bards/Machinists)
4. Chaos Thrust (This puts a damage over time effect on the enemy which will naturally be buffed by your Heavy Thrust (15%) and Disembowel (10%).
5. Phlebotomize - A damage over time effect that will be buffed by Heavy Thrust and Disembowel if you've followed so far.
6. True Thrust - Damage combo starter
7. Vorpal Thrust - More damage
8. Full Thrust - Even more damage
Basically you want to keep up these four effects (Heavy Thrust buff, Disembowel debuff, Chaos Thrust DoT, and Phlebotomize DoT) then use Full Thrust combo for straight damage until it's time to apply the buffs/debuffs again.
This combo to start will apply all of these. Once they are applied you can get in two Full Thrust combos unless you had to move away from your target for some reason.
There's the matter of oGCDs (off the global cooldown abilities) but I think learning this basic combo is a decent place to start.
I don't know anything about the level 60 Dragoon rotation though so someone else will have to help you with that.
brandonh83
Banned
Thanks! Yeah, I've actually been doing it similar to that. It was just a lot to learn right off the bat and some things are starting to make more sense. I know which buffs to keep up, the starting combo and the thrust combos. But then there's the stuff I don't have yet, figuring out how to map it all on the Dualshock and making sure I'm getting the timing right.
I feel like it'd be a very rewarding class to master. It's already fun to do even being shit at it.
I feel like it'd be a very rewarding class to master. It's already fun to do even being shit at it.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I thought I read dot damage is not effected by specific damage debuffs like dragon kick or disembowl because the actual dot tick after the initial potency attack is simply physical, and not specifically any type. Is that still the case?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
There are training dummies at the Wolves Den Pier if you want to practice. Their hp just refills as soon as it hits 0.
Stone Ocean
Member
The DoT per se isn't affected but the initial hit is and the DRG DoTs pack a punch.
brandonh83
Banned
So basically what you just wrote out, and then anything else available in-between (such as Dragonfire, Spineshatter, etc). I'll try it out. I had been pretty much doing that though there's some things here that I can alter my current to.
KrM DeLorean
Member
Not trying to flame you, but this is far from optimal rotation at anything you'll be in a party for. I advise you new Dragoons to take the time to read the DRG guide on the official forums. If you take any sort of pride in your in game performance and don't want to fall into the "loldragoon" stereotype please take the time and give it a read.
Edit: also if you're on pc look into parsing yourself during parties, it will open your eyes to how well/bad you are performing compared to others. It really can be an eye opening experience when another dps is doing twice your damage or whatever. Great motivation to get better. If you give a fuck in the first place.
Quote
Member
Odin is a tough fight, I wouldn't take it personally. It's not required so I would skip it completely (and I still haven't killed him as a healer) until you're more comfortable and have a good party.
EDIT: This became way bigger than I planned,
I'm a level 60 Dragoon and I find it a lot of fun.
To keep things simple, just remember this:
- Keep Heavy Thrust up (every hit with this down is damage lost)
- Keep Chaos Thrust on the enemy
- Keep Phlebotomize on the enemy
- Use your thrust combo once the above is satisfied
Besides this, (excluding HW skills which I've left out) just weave your off GCD skills inbetween them. Once you figure out the timing for what you can fit between these GCD skills, (generally one or two oGCDs) it should all be a lot easier.
I would recommend getting Internal Release and Second Wind from Pugilist, Second Wind is useful if you get hit by something and the healer is too busy focusing on the tank.
To finish this, I'll get you what my opening usually is on bosses (might not be the best but it works for me and does a nice bit of damage):
Heavy Thrust - > Impulse Drive - > Blood for Blood + Internal Release - > Disembowel - > Leg Sweep (assuming I don't need to save my stun for later) - > Chaos Thrust - > Phlebotomize - > True Thrust - > Spineshatter Dive - > Vorpal Thrust - > Power Surge + Life Surge - > Full Thrust - > Dragonfire Dive
Usually by then, I need to refresh Heavy Thrust and then just keep the Chaos and Phlebotomize effects on the enemy.
It might look confusing but I'd say find a training dummy and then practice parts of it until you get the hang of it.
Also on trash pulls, I don't tend to care about doing my full combo and just use whatever (Chaos, Thrust Combos and Jumps etc). And with that, I'll leave it there as this is probably a bit much information as it is.
TL;DR Practice the GCD parts of the combo and then learn to weave your off GCDs into it and find what works for you. As long as you are pulling your weight, no one can complain and if they do screw them.
I'm a level 60 Dragoon and I find it a lot of fun.
To keep things simple, just remember this:
- Keep Heavy Thrust up (every hit with this down is damage lost)
- Keep Chaos Thrust on the enemy
- Keep Phlebotomize on the enemy
- Use your thrust combo once the above is satisfied
Besides this, (excluding HW skills which I've left out) just weave your off GCD skills inbetween them. Once you figure out the timing for what you can fit between these GCD skills, (generally one or two oGCDs) it should all be a lot easier.
I would recommend getting Internal Release and Second Wind from Pugilist, Second Wind is useful if you get hit by something and the healer is too busy focusing on the tank.
To finish this, I'll get you what my opening usually is on bosses (might not be the best but it works for me and does a nice bit of damage):
Heavy Thrust - > Impulse Drive - > Blood for Blood + Internal Release - > Disembowel - > Leg Sweep (assuming I don't need to save my stun for later) - > Chaos Thrust - > Phlebotomize - > True Thrust - > Spineshatter Dive - > Vorpal Thrust - > Power Surge + Life Surge - > Full Thrust - > Dragonfire Dive
Usually by then, I need to refresh Heavy Thrust and then just keep the Chaos and Phlebotomize effects on the enemy.
It might look confusing but I'd say find a training dummy and then practice parts of it until you get the hang of it.
Also on trash pulls, I don't tend to care about doing my full combo and just use whatever (Chaos, Thrust Combos and Jumps etc). And with that, I'll leave it there as this is probably a bit much information as it is.
TL;DR Practice the GCD parts of the combo and then learn to weave your off GCDs into it and find what works for you. As long as you are pulling your weight, no one can complain and if they do screw them.
Dragoon hotbars are not bloated in any way lol
brandonh83
Banned
EDIT: This became way bigger than I planned,
Just knocked out the Pugilist skills, now I'm back to Dragoon. Really appreciate the post, it honestly doesn't seem that bad. I'll take it one thing at a time and try it on a dummy and compare it to the numbers I'm doing now. Thanks!
No problem. Like I said it works for me. Just remember to prioritise mechanics over your DPS. To many don't and end up taking lots of dmg or dying because of it. (I am guilty of this sometimes as well I admit)
DRG is a fun job though. Just takes some time to get used to it when you have all your skills and stuff.
texhnolyze
Banned
Dragoon was a lot of fun. Besides having to focus my mind on the rotation, I have to mind the positioning for certain skills (from the side or behind). There's also avoiding the aoes and looking at my dps meter. Playing a dragoon was quite exhausting. But then again, I haven't played any other DPS class/job especially for endgame activities.
I'm leveling as a GLD/PLD nowadays, and it's such a revelation for me. Every duty finder is instantaneous. However, tanking is generally boring compared to dps-ing as a dragoon.
I'm leveling as a GLD/PLD nowadays, and it's such a revelation for me. Every duty finder is instantaneous. However, tanking is generally boring compared to dps-ing as a dragoon.
the_sun_king
Member
Especially since you picked GLD/PLD of the three. It's why I went the WAR route.
Also, to the user worrying about DRG, as that's my main job, I highly recommend studying the rotation (the image by our very own Eve on the previous page is a good, concise diagram) and go practicing on a dummy in game. As mentioned, work on your GCD first, then when you have that comfortably memorized, start weaving in those buffs in to the rotation. It's how I did it and if you keep at it enough it'll become second nature.
brandonh83
Banned
I just ran through a few rounds with the dummy, my full thrust was doing 1200+, before it was around 1050 I think? So an improvement which I'll take for now. It also seemed like I was able to do actions more quickly rather than waiting as much, so there's that.
legendaryskitch
Member
A lot of Dragoons here. I too am a DRG main. I will say that the most useful tip for any new Dragoon is to know your jumps. Know which ones move you and which keep you in place. Nothing kills Dragoons more than a poorly timed jump. Pretty sure that's why Dragoons have such a bad reputation.
Also use elusive jump, that is the ultimate "Oh shit" reaction move that has saved me countless times.
Also use elusive jump, that is the ultimate "Oh shit" reaction move that has saved me countless times.
So the icon on your game library is just linking you back to the store to purchase the game? If it's on your transaction history it should be available from the library. Weird.
Maybe try downloading the trial version and restoring licenses afterwards.
As a Dragoon main, I saw the glory of Life Surge yesterday Me and my friend went nuts after
https://gfycat.com/DearBleakGopher
Me and my friend went nuts afterhttps://gfycat.com/DearBleakGopher
Got my monk to 52, I think I finally found a main dps job. I thought the positionals would get old but they're actually half the fun.
The downside of spending so much time on a monk is that it made me deathly aware of them when tanking. Just moving out of AoE makes me feel bad.
The downside of spending so much time on a monk is that it made me deathly aware of them when tanking. Just moving out of AoE makes me feel bad.
I see people jumping towards an enemy and it always seems a waste to me since you will have no buffs (not even Heavy Thrust) on the jumps. I think it might be better to save your initial jumps until you've had a chance to get set up properly.
Dragoon gets really complex with Blood of the Dragon. Give bard a spin if you are struggling as it's pretty straightforward.
Looking at guides before you learn everything might get overwhelming. The way to look at this is to use a priority system. Apply your buffs, your debuffs and any DoT's on the enemy. When and if those are sufficiently maintained, then do your most powerful attack. This applies to pretty much every role not just Dragoon.
For example Heavy Thrust is your damage buff. Use that first and use it again as it is about to run out. Try not to let it drop off
Next is your debuff which is Disembowel for 10% less piercing resistance. So it's Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Thrust combo.
Now time for you Damage over time effects. Conveniently you already used Chaos Thrust as part of the debuff. So just use Phlebotomize.
Now you've placed your buff, debuff and DoT's. Not do your most damaging attacks like the True > Vorpal > Full Thrust combo.
You carry this on until the above buff, debuff, DoT effects need refreshing. At your level you can use one Chaos Thrust combo for every 2 Full Thrust combos. With Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize woven in between as necessary.
As for the extra off GCD abilities, generally use them as they are available, but try and time that for while Blood for Blood is active for more damage. Also use Life Surge before Full Thrust for a guaranteed Critical on your most powerful attack.
If you can maintain the above you'll generally be more powerful (assuming equal gear) then the majority of players. The hard part comes with maintaining all those effects when needing to deal with mechanics or to dodge something. That's where the priority system comes in. If you are forced out of your normal order, use the most important moves first such as Heavy Thrust. If you are going to have to move away from an enemy or boss for a while, use something like Phlebotomize early so it can carry on doing damage while you do something else. Also I k ow someone mentioned it earlier, but the blue slow attack Feint? Except for very very rare situational uses, it's not something you should ever bother with.
For example Heavy Thrust is your damage buff. Use that first and use it again as it is about to run out. Try not to let it drop off
Next is your debuff which is Disembowel for 10% less piercing resistance. So it's Impulse Drive > Disembowel > Chaos Thrust combo.
Now time for you Damage over time effects. Conveniently you already used Chaos Thrust as part of the debuff. So just use Phlebotomize.
Now you've placed your buff, debuff and DoT's. Not do your most damaging attacks like the True > Vorpal > Full Thrust combo.
You carry this on until the above buff, debuff, DoT effects need refreshing. At your level you can use one Chaos Thrust combo for every 2 Full Thrust combos. With Heavy Thrust and Phlebotomize woven in between as necessary.
As for the extra off GCD abilities, generally use them as they are available, but try and time that for while Blood for Blood is active for more damage. Also use Life Surge before Full Thrust for a guaranteed Critical on your most powerful attack.
If you can maintain the above you'll generally be more powerful (assuming equal gear) then the majority of players. The hard part comes with maintaining all those effects when needing to deal with mechanics or to dodge something. That's where the priority system comes in. If you are forced out of your normal order, use the most important moves first such as Heavy Thrust. If you are going to have to move away from an enemy or boss for a while, use something like Phlebotomize early so it can carry on doing damage while you do something else. Also I k ow someone mentioned it earlier, but the blue slow attack Feint? Except for very very rare situational uses, it's not something you should ever bother with.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I pretty much only jump to take advantage of the movement options - using Jump to get in damage when a boss is surrounded by an AoE circle or using Spineshatter Dive to quickly move to a boss who has moved a long distance away.
They are high potency attacks though and I think some have buffs that affect them specifically. I'm not really an expert DRG but I think trying to use them whenever they are up is the way to go.
Stone Ocean
Member
Not really. It highly depends on the fight. More often than not you want to hold on to certain OGCDs for a multitude of reasons, specially movement ones.
Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm convinced about that to be honest. The longer you sit on them, the fewer of them you will have.
Sometimes minimizing downtime is worth more than getting one extra spineshatter in. Depends on the fight of course. In Refurbisher you wouldn't hold anything back because the room is five steps by five steps big, but in Alexander Prime you may wanna try and get from your end of the room to the boss as fast as possible and keep GCDs rolling.
/ac "Shukuchi" <t>
{Please check it}
Stone Ocean
Member
Having more casts of them won't help you if you use Spineshatter on something that shouldn't be stunned or if you need to AoE and Dragonfire is on CD or if you need to do a mechanic on the other side of the arena and lose uptime/BoTD because you had no jumps avaiable or if you need to burst something down by yourself but you can't because you just used your jumps 10 seconds ago, and so on.
As a rule yeah, you want to use them whenever they're up but you need to adapt your casts and CD timings to the situations of a fight.
Glendemonium
Member
Well MNKs can always reposition themselves if the enemy moves, or adjust our moveset accordingly, it's the beauty of MNK that it has a flow that can adapt to changes.
Just don't be that tank who moves the enemy around all over the place.
Okay fair enough. I guess if you know what's coming you would plan things accordingly. I was picturing someone just sitting on their jumps in case they need to move at some point.
Yeah you wouldn't just sit on your jumps. Generally use them as they come unless Blood for Blood is almost up. But gap closers can be incredibly useful to minimise downtime. Sure you might use a Spineshatter, Dragonfire or Shoulder Tackle without buffs, but if it means not wasting a GCD or two moving to the boss it's worth it.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Does that actually work? By that I mean it removes the targeting circle like it does for Salted Earth/Shadow Flare?
Of course, it works the same.
Imagine Wagons
Member
I took some notes (and made a decoder ring) from Dervy's rotation that others have posted. You could always try this a thousand times against a training dummy until you feel comfortable with it:
Abstrusity
Member
Meaning current level dungeons aren't worth it? Also should I spam a specific section of palace or go until the end every time?
SliceSabre
Banned
Dungeons are very worth it. Once you get The Great Gubal Library unlocked you'll level 59 to 60 quick as hell because that place gives out a ton of exp.
Abstrusity
Member
It's around 10% of a level for the first 10 floors, and it's almost impossible to screw up palace, unlike dungeons, with their scary mechanics and skill requirement. Like using tab to change your target in order to keep hate as a tank! Or using aetherflow as a Summoner so you can Bane or Fester targets!
It's ALMOST five key presses, and that's just too much to ask.
Yeah I guess, plus seems like queues are way faster for palace anyway. Been sitting here for 15 minutes with no pop for Vault.
yea, but they certainly wont be doing anything fast with a MCH other than palace.
PotD leveling doubles as being pretty profitable. I've been using it extensively to bring my 3 remaning jobs to 60 (all dps, all sub 30 before I started), after 200 hoards found I'm almost not poor anymore. Four hairstyles, glamour that people pay (or paid, the market is gone already) more than they should, a bunch of V materias and then the potsherds you can trade for some more, all while leveling and getting some free 235 weapons.
41-50 still makes me nervous, though. At launch it was about people possibly wiping the group on purpose at 49, now it's about people just trying to get it done asap and screwing it up. Just this week I had to repeat it three times before a kill...
41-50 still makes me nervous, though. At launch it was about people possibly wiping the group on purpose at 49, now it's about people just trying to get it done asap and screwing it up. Just this week I had to repeat it three times before a kill...
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