• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT3| Keniki Gauge Cost: 20,000

Status
Not open for further replies.

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Doing any of 60-and-below content is gonna be real unpleasant on some of the jobs.
It's already kind of AIDS for some.
This is not a new sentiment and it will pop up every time an new Expansion is around the corner. At least 2/3 of the game is below Lv.60 now so it's better to accept that your not going to use your new toys as much as one would like.


So here's the version you can use in 5.0 15 months from now:

"Doing any of 70-and-below content is gonna be real unpleasant on some of the jobs.
It's already kind of AIDS for some."
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I mean, you're not wrong, but it's doubly poignant with some lower level abilities removed or rebalanced for 70 content.

Syncing player strength down instead of removing abilities for lower level content could work if this game didn't have such stark potency throughput difference between early levels and higher levels.

idk
maybe make us run sastasha less
 

Edzi

Member
I mean, you're not wrong, but it's doubly poignant with some lower level abilities removed or rebalanced for 70 content.

Syncing player strength down instead of removing abilities for lower level content could work if this game didn't have such stark potency throughput difference between early levels and higher levels.

idk
maybe make us run sastasha less

I'm with you, and I haven't even touched lvl 60 content yet. It's really lame going through old dungeons while missing most of your abilities.
 

duckroll

Member
So, yesterday I capped off my grind run with a daily trial. I got Steps of Faith, and after 5 minutes I was forced to leave the duty myself because it was impossible to retain even half a full party as people kept leaving. It was a really stupid experience because it's not as if I wasn't willing to stay and help, but it's a huge waste of time to sit and wait when it would be impossible to ever start the duty. Some of the players were new and I felt really bad for them, nothing I could do as a DPS though.

Surely Yoshi-P is aware of this problem? What's the point of having trial that players don't want to play? Either hit anyone leaving that trial with a huge penalty immediately, or remove the trial from the game and turn it into a cutscene or solo duty imo. Waste of everyone's time.
 

Xion_Stellar

People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
I mean, you're not wrong, but it's doubly poignant with some lower level abilities removed or rebalanced for 70 content.

Syncing player strength down instead of removing abilities for lower level content could work if this game didn't have such stark potency throughput difference between early levels and higher levels.

idk
maybe make us run sastasha less

It's a weird situation because on one hand I would love to always have access to all of my actions regardless of the content I'm doing but on the other hand certain content was not made to accommodate for future Actions/Abilities so if I was a brand new player running through a dungeon I wouldn't want to be paired with a Lv.70 try hard doing all of these fancy thing I don't have access to.


So I just accept thing as they are now because even if I complained about it I wouldn't be able to provide constructive feedback on how to fix this conundrum without destroying​ early game "balance".
 

Foxxsoxx

Member
This is not a new sentiment and it will pop up every time an new Expansion is around the corner. At least 2/3 of the game is below Lv.60 now so it's better to accept that your not going to use your new toys as much as one would like.


So here's the version you can use in 5.0 15 months from now:

"Doing any of 70-and-below content is gonna be real unpleasant on some of the jobs.
It's already kind of AIDS for some."

Well it would be pretty easily alleviated if jobs learned their skills earlier instead of the 50s.
 
So, yesterday I capped off my grind run with a daily trial. I got Steps of Faith, and after 5 minutes I was forced to leave the duty myself because it was impossible to retain even half a full party as people kept leaving. It was a really stupid experience because it's not as if I wasn't willing to stay and help, but it's a huge waste of time to sit and wait when it would be impossible to ever start the duty. Some of the players were new and I felt really bad for them, nothing I could do as a DPS though.

Surely Yoshi-P is aware of this problem? What's the point of having trial that players don't want to play? Either hit anyone leaving that trial with a huge penalty immediately, or remove the trial from the game and turn it into a cutscene or solo duty imo. Waste of everyone's time.

That trial used to be harder but was nerfed to where it is now. There aren't any other trials like it probably because of the negative backlash it caused.
 

duckroll

Member
That trial used to be harder but was nerfed to where it is now. There aren't any other trials like it probably because of the negative backlash it caused.

Nerfing it clearly didn't fix the problem though, since before it starts half the party leaves immediately. I know there's no magic solution to people being assholes, but I feel the problem needs a more practical solution. It's disheartening to see it go down like this. I didn't even lose out on it since I could just leave and queue again since it was a daily trail, but I know how it felt like when I was doing the MSQ, and the fact that it continues to happen is lame as hell.
 

Edzi

Member
Nerfing it clearly didn't fix the problem though, since before it starts half the party leaves immediately. I know there's no magic solution to people being assholes, but I feel the problem needs a more practical solution. It's disheartening to see it go down like this. I didn't even lose out on it since I could just leave and queue again since it was a daily trail, but I know how it felt like when I was doing the MSQ, and the fact that it continues to happen is lame as hell.

This kinda happened to me and a few other newbies on our first attempt at Titan EX. People just leave after a wipe or two and don't want to communicate, making it impossible to clear.
 

Reknoc

Member
That trial used to be harder but was nerfed to where it is now. There aren't any other trials like it probably because of the negative backlash it caused.

The only nerf that would help it is to give the boss normal-ass health so players can take it down without having to rely on the slow dragon getting to the point. It should have been a solo story trail from the start honestly, it's the sort of thing where you "that's neat" at first but by the 2nd time it's already overstayed it's welcome.

I won't be the first to leave, but I won't be staying around when half the party has vanished.
 

Rootbeer

Banned
*edit* Thanks, Ken

I'm looking for a recruitment code, looks like I can use one when reactivating my account.

If you have one and would like to help out and get rewards, please PM me one or post it here?
 

Stalk

Member
So like POTD is a godsend for levelling DPS but my lord I think I'm going to lose my shit staring at those same walls for hours.

I levelled WHM to 60 then read the changes. That was misused time.

I'm just gonna focus on MNK now...
 

Gothos

Member
Playing the free trial and really enjoying myself. Currently level 18 Gladiator. Taking my time, exploring - removing time limit was great idea by Sqaure. Just not sure my server is active enough (playing on Lich) to commit to that character...

BTW, is there enough to do on max lvl if I'm not raider?
 

k1t4j

Member
Playing the free trial and really enjoying myself. Currently level 18 Gladiator. Taking my time, exploring - removing time limit was great idea by Sqaure. Just not sure my server is active enough (playing on Lich) to commit to that character...

BTW, is there enough to do on max lvl if I'm not raider?

I don't raid often, hell my FC is just my, my gf and her brother but we still get lots of things to do:

Gold Saucer
Crafting and Crafting professions
24 Man Raids with queue (which is not as bad as it sounds)
Weekly Logs
That FATE only place in Ishgard ( the name escapes me now)
Daily Dungeons
PoTD (Palace of the Dead)

This is the first MMO i have sinked a lot of time into, when I'm bored I take a break and come back a few months later, do the new content, grind for some new stuff until I'm bored again. Besides I *personaly* think this is the best FF in the series since FF10.
 

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Early access info is up:

Upcoming Schedule

Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 02:00 a.m. (PDT): All Worlds Maintenance (24 Hours)
Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 9:00 p.m. (PDT): Stormblood patch note reading
Friday, June 16, 2017 at 2:00 a.m. (PDT): Early access begins
Friday, June 16, 2017: PlayStation®3 service ends
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood launches
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: Pre-order in-game items distribution begins
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: Full game registration codes can be redeemed
Friday, June 23, 2017 at 11:59 p.m. (Per Region): Early access ends
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/7933cb4e7b3a01b4e86dc352c2ac06cca462cfc4

Upcoming Schedule:

Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 10:00 (BST) / 09:00 (GMT): All Worlds Maintenance (24 Hours)
Friday June 16, 2017 at 05:00 (BST) / 04:00 (GMT): Stormblood patch note reading
Friday, June 16, 2017 at 10:00 (BST) / 09:00 (GMT): Early access begins
Friday, June 16, 2017: PlayStation®3 service ends
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: FINAL FANTASY XIV: Stormblood launches
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: Pre-order in-game items distribution begins
Tuesday, June 20, 2017: Full game registration codes can be redeemed
Friday, June 23, 2017 at 23:59 (Per Region): Early access ends

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/80860d4b71d06a09f0deba11d0b4bb84c5dcc63c
 
OTP isn't required to login if you don't set it up. It's an optimal security measure for your account

SE account ties itself to your PSN account during registration. You can't break this, only thing you can do is figure out your account details or start from scratch on a new PSN account that isn't tied to any SE account.

If you made it into the account management site then you should be able to get a new OTP reg code. If you've never had a OTP then you can just leave that field blank when logging in. If you only managed to log in only for it to ask you for your OTP and you don't have access to it, you need to contact support and ask them to reset your OTP. I think they ask you to send a copy of your state id but I'm not sure cause I've never gone through the process.

I'll call SECS tomorrow and ask for them to unbind my account from my PS4 so I can start w/ my new SE account. Hopefully that'll fix any issues and i can start playing this weekend. Thanks folks.
 

kromeo

Member
Nerfing it clearly didn't fix the problem though, since before it starts half the party leaves immediately. I know there's no magic solution to people being assholes, but I feel the problem needs a more practical solution. It's disheartening to see it go down like this. I didn't even lose out on it since I could just leave and queue again since it was a daily trail, but I know how it felt like when I was doing the MSQ, and the fact that it continues to happen is lame as hell.

People leave because that one takes 3 times as long as any other trial in the roulette. It's annoying but just how people are
 

Silav101

Member
Benediction cooldown being reduced to 180s is the greatest DPS boost to WHM ever. Now I can flat out kill a player from any amount of health and heal myself to full every 3 minutes now.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Doing any of 60-and-below content is gonna be real unpleasant on some of the jobs.
It's already kind of AIDS for some.

I don't think so, actually. Most of these new jobs seem to be ridiculously stacked at early levels even. RDM for instance gets a 300 potency spammable spell as early as lv10.

And DRG has Full Thrust potency increased to 440??? Man....
 

Perfo

Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Sort of a strange question but I need to ask. If I buy the retail version of stormblood on the S-E site I'm granted Early Access. Is the code they send by email all I need to keep playing or I need to get the retail version home to play once the early access expires?

thx
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Sort of a strange question but I need to ask. If I buy the retail version of stormblood on the S-E site I'm granted Early Access. Is the code they send by email all I need to keep playing or I need to get the retail version home to play once the early access expires?

thx

You'll need to get and register the retail version before the early access ends on the 23rd to keep playing.
 
I did some calculations the other day and the SMN Ruin II 25% potency buff seems to mostly make up for the Ruin III nerf. Here's an example:

Casting Ruin II 5 times in a row: total of 500 potency for a 2400 mp cost
Casting Ruin III 1 time and Ruin I 4 times: 470 potency for a 2400 mp cost(pre-nerf would have been 520 potency)

If you add the random Ruin IV upgrades we'll get(I think roughly 2 per minute), SMN use of the Ruin line of spells should be outputting more potency per minute than pre-patch, at least outside of Dreadwyrm trance. We also now have an MP refresh so we'll be able to push Ruin damage even further.

And then Tri-Disaster also now includes a Ruin damage increase but the details of that seem to be unclear.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Have you read Hai Hai's insane 19 page preview speculation thing?

He seems pretty optimistic about SMN in general; his stuff is always interesting to read through, at least.

I really like his DoT breakdown. Summoner was the main/highest job I had, and the streamlining they did of keeping just 2 DoT's up with the same duration immediately makes me feel like I'll enjoy playing it more.
 

Omnicent

Member
After crunching and digesting SAM a bit more I'm leaning to Hagakure being used on cool-down as soon as you get 3 Sen (there are exceptions).

Iaijutsu does not break your combo (going by Merri's video) which gives some flexibility to SAM.
As long as you use your 3Sen before Yukikaze/Gekko/Kasha come around you should be fine.

IE:
Hakaze > Jinpu > 3Sen,
Hakaze > 3Sen > Jinpu,
3Sen > Hakaze > Jinpu
Same amount of GCD's, same amount of Keniki gained, and the only thing to note would be buff alignment with BRD, SCH, DRG, and etc.

So we then end up with instances where you can have something like:
Hakaze (Kaiten) > 3Sen vs Hakaze (Hagakure) > Yukikaze.
Yukikaze is basically substituting for 3Sen.

Hakaze (Kaiten) > 3Sen comes to 1080p (potency) for 3Sen+Kaiten.
You still have 25-35 Keniki afterwards, but that affects 3Sen and Hagakure phases equally (you build 55 Keniki generating 3 Sen if you land positional's).

Hakaze (Hagakure) > Yukikaze comes out to 1240.
340 from Yukikaze and 900 from Shinten spam since you have 60+20 Keniki.
The 20 is from the "unused" Kaiten.
You will also have 15 Keniki left over (10 from Yukikaze and 5 leftover from Shinten spam).
Also, using Guren + Shinten is even more potency (still have 15 Keniki left over).

Even basing this off of Hakaze you will get 1150p with 0 Keniki left over (5 leftover + 5 from Hakaze, so you can use Gyoten. Course it's better use that 5 in a better potency/Keniki move).

There are still instances where you would still not use Hagakure on CD if you have 3Sen.
You have to know that you can expend most of the gained Keniki before the enemy/boss dies.
There is a point where if you use x minimum amount of Keniki generated from Hagakure you will be good.
Have not crunched as it depends on enemies remaining health, Guren, and some other things (not wasting the Keniki from your WS).
Considering values may change don't want to do to much theory craft.

Oh and you could maybe use a 2Sen Hagakure into Yukikaze combo into the 1Sen dot (something thats on my list, but not sure how that is going to pan out)

Oh and on flexibility? Assume you have 3Sen (Hagakure and Guren are on cool-down), but 15 Keniki because you fucked up somewhere.
Instead of using 3Sen asap, you do Hakaze, Kaiten, and then 3Sen.
It's nothing huge, but it gives some wiggle room to make the best out of a Keniki usage mistake.

Of course all of this is still subject to change before EA, but that's what excel is for.

I'm super hyped for SAM cause you will use every tool in their kit at some point.
Yes even Starry Eyes. I will make my healers cry! (if we go by the jp tool-tip it is 15 Keniki cost and not 25, making it better potency/kenki than Shinten.
I can already see SAM's staying in aoe to try and proc open eyes, fail, and then die. That will be me week 1).

Ok done rambling, back to trudging through this work day (why isn't it the 16th yet?)

Have you read Hai Hai's insane 19 page preview speculation thing?

He seems pretty optimistic about SMN in general; his stuff is always interesting to read through, at least.
I thought I was being long winded. I'm going to have take my time and read through this after work. Should be good stuff.
 

otakukidd

Member
So I signed back up to get ready for stormblood. I am a off and on player going back to 1.0 but usually solo or have 1 to 2 friends play. One of the things I never did though was raiding. How is doing the raids through the duty finder and raid finder?
 

LordKasual

Banned
So I signed back up to get ready for stormblood. I am a off and on player going back to 1.0 but usually solo or have 1 to 2 friends play. One of the things I never did though was raiding. How is doing the raids through the duty finder and raid finder?

About as good as it can be in any game. Hit or miss.

For parties that generally know what they're doing but are a little wonky on mechanics, this is where someone who can carry will make the most difference. Callout macros and explaining after wipes can lead to a clear.

For parties with too many newcomers / important roles that don't know what they're doing? You're essentially in a learning party and have no chance of victory. Especially if said newcomers are the tanks. Expect frustrated members to leave after a few wipes.
 

scy

Member
It always warms my heart to see math.

I did some calculations the other day and the SMN Ruin II 25% potency buff seems to mostly make up for the Ruin III nerf. Here's an example.

Personally, my gripe with the SMN changes is mostly on how on-rails the 'rotation' seems now. It already was fairly cyclical but the new one seems to be even more of that. Or I guess just the sheer amount of Ruin filler again. I'll probably still eventually get SMN to 70 because Bahamut-egi srsly but they have definitely taken a backseat a bit after charting out the potential rotation somewhat.

After crunching and digesting SAM a bit more I'm leaning to Hagakure being used on cool-down as soon as you get 3 Sen (there are exceptions).

Yeah; reading through the discussions on it seems to point towards converting Sen to meter is a better use then the non-cooldown gated Sen / Kenki uses (e.g., Kaiten -> Midare Setsugekka, Guren). Otherwise, treat the meter as a better use of resources and to think of the two systems as related rather than two separate spenders. This whole process in general seems to place SAM in this spot of them trying a new way of oGCDs at least; SAM has no real spammable oGCDs to constantly keep on cooldown (e.g., Jumps), just their Kenki meter controlling their oGCDs. As long as you spend all your Kenki without overcapping, things are looking pretty good as opposed to having to use everything the earliest moment you can to avoid losing a use over the course of a fight.

I will say that I'm hoping for no 'weird' edge cases in spending, like the 2 Sen convert situation, if only because at that spot you're getting a little obtuse vs a strict priority of Sen / Kenki spenders. That will go a long way to helping achieve the lowered barrier of entry for players that they were trying to target with the expansion.
 

studyguy

Member
I just realized early access starts on my birthday weekend. Meaning I probably won't be here for most of it. Kill me.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I just realized early access starts on my birthday weekend. Meaning I probably won't be here for most of it. Kill me.

Does your birthday involve some obligatory socializing
If it was my birthday like it is today I'd tell everyone to shut up and bury myself in video games
 

wamberz1

Member
Times like these I'm glad I can ask for time off whenever I please!

Lounging around watching E3/Playing Stormblood, here I come!
 

Squishy3

Member
Patch notes goes up at midnight and early access will be live once I wake up, so there's no time to really read before I hop in:/
There'll be preliminary notes before launch, the patch-note reading would be a livestream if I'm not mistaken, as Yoshida should be back in Japan from E3 by then.
 

Reknoc

Member
I stayed through 3 party cycles. The third time we lost all tanks and healers I just couldn't. :(

I do feel guilty bouncing because I know this could be someone's story roadblock. But usually when it falls apart the first time there's no saving it because no one really wanted to do it and can use losing as an excuse to leave.
 

iammeiam

Member
The SAM theorycrafting is interesting but also it is melee, my arch nemesis.

It does tentatively seem like the new SB jobs are a lot more involved than the rebooted earlier ones? Or they have more convoluted mechanics. The tentative RDM priority system has a lot more decisions than I was expecting.

Which probably means they're going to be hugely popular and DF is going to be really, really bad with them at first. Exciting times.

I do feel guilty bouncing because I know this could be someone's story roadblock. But usually when it falls apart the first time there's no saving it because no one really wanted to do it and can use losing as an excuse to leave.

I haven't done trial roulette since they added cross-server PF, but I think it could help a lot here. If you can meet them in DF, you can do a cross-server PF and match up, then run unsynced. It requires a little more communication and you don't get the roulette bonus, but it won't take much time and would help make it easier to give everyone an out without guilt or ruining the new guy's fun.

Because synced Steps of Faith is not qualitatively better than unsynced soo..
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I wouldn't say RDM is at all convoluted, it actually seems really simple - on paper anyways, practical optimization might throw curveballs here and there. Which is unfortunate because if the job WAS in fact complicated like MCH was in HW it could turn people away and... well, dreams will be dreams.
 

Shy Fingers

Banned
That trial used to be harder but was nerfed to where it is now. There aren't any other trials like it probably because of the negative backlash it caused.

It's not like you have NPCs yelling at you the whole time explicitly stating what to do or anything...

I remember having to solo tank it the day it came out just to clear it because we needed extra DPS. Now you can pretty much punch it to death before it gets to the wall.
 

iammeiam

Member
I currently really like RDM as a MCH gameplay style replacement, but I think it's going to suffer from a higher initial learning curve largely because it's just got more relevant GCDs. MCH had, like, five GCDs we cared about and for the most part it was always super obvious immediately which to push when. Hot and Lead on the 30, Split Shot until one of the other shots started blinking, then push the blinking thing. 1-2-1 instead of 1-2-3 for doctoral thesis in MCH

The oGCDs tended to scare people (just push all of them it will be fine), but in terms of what to do for your GCDs MCH was always super obvious.

RDM has the two proc chains, and then filler skills you use to for MP management. This tentative picture thing is a solid demonstration; it's not that it's super intricate so much as there are a decent amount of decision points. Given that most things seem to break down into relatively static 30 second chunks, RDM looks like it's going to require more reactivity and paying attention to balance. Plus the weird niche things like casting a heal on yourself during a jump phase to proc the instant long-cast at the end, etc.

Their group damage buff is also going to be a lot more interesting than Hypercharge and potentially have impact on the rest of the group since you'd want to frontload damage as opposed to just getting it all out in a window. And, in DF, probably 100% activated at max range so nobody ever gets the buff.

I don't want to oversell it, but in a patch that's largely filing down the complexity of jobs to eliminate the skill gap, both of the new ones seem way more prone to bad play than I was expecting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom