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[DrDogg]

Well it just said adjusted, but we dont know how it was adjusted, so I wouldnt call it just yet.

Probably is leaning towards less though.

It shouldn't be adjusted at all unless SE actually makes partying fun and challenging instead of a competition for SP.

If SE makes Cures garner more enmity, CONs can't spam it and thus get less SP. If Cures generate less enmity, then it becomes even easier to play an already easy game.

Right now, FFXIV just isn't fun. I'd go back to FFXI, but I don't like the level cap increase. I want FFXIV to be just as fun as FFXI was, but the current changes don't really show that happening.

If the SP system changes enough to make people play their classes the way they were intended to be played, instead of spamming for the sake of getting SP, then the game will be moving in the right direction. That's the only thing I care about. Inventory sort is great, but it doesn't make the game any more fun.

 

[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

Inventory sort is great, but it doesn't make the game any more fun.

I wouldn't go that far. Sorting may not be a bullet point on the back of the box but I never level disciple of land because sorting through the 160 spaces between me and my retainer and figuring out what's valuable, what I could give to shell mates, what I could sell and what's trash is a huge chore.

For me at least, inventory sort is a huge step to making me play more.

I feel you on the FFXIV not feeling as fun as FFXI did though. I blame that entirely on having nothing to work towards (lack of a chocobo license, airship pass, kazham, etc.)

 

[Teknoman]

I think some of the special effects need to be a little flashier or have louder sound effects. Take provoke or red lotus blade for instance. In XI, you knew when someone provoked, from the animation, to the loud sound exclusive to provoking, and the large special effect on the enemy. Same with red lotus. Sure, the enemies have status icons while being provoked, but still, the effects should stand out more.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah, it's so hard to tell what's going on sometimes because:

1. chat battle spam

2. all the animations look the same

3. the sound and visual effects are not very prominent

4. if you're in a 6-15 member party, you're all crowded around each other and it's hard to see what's going on. And since you're encouraged to make large zerg rush parties due to the stupid game mechanics, all you'll ever see is a whole blob of people and various generic sound and visual effects.

 

[Teknoman]

Yeah, I think thats one thing people need to adopt: Making sure you're spaced out when attacking, similar to that battle range image from the main site.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah, I think thats one thing people need to adopt: Making sure you're spaced out when attacking, similar to that battle range image from the main site.

That's not always the case, however. At later levels, the best things to exp grind on are raptors and efts. Why? Because they have a high damage AoE attack.

Because of this stupid gameplay mechanic that encourages the party to take damage so that the mages can cure for healing SP, the best way to get SP is to all huddle in a pile in front of the raptor's mouth and intentionally get blasted by the fire breath so that the mages can AoE heal for mucho SP.

That just throws the whole "strategic positioning" concept right out the window because yet again, the designers' gameplay systems incentivize players to play the game wrong on purpose.

 

[Teknoman]

So could it be possible that magic users could experience better gains from standard attacks after this SP balancing? You'd think parties would just equal you fighting enemies with more HP than normal to maximize gain, at least thats how i'd want it to work.

Curing/ buffing/debuffing/blocking/parrying should still result in SP gain, but people should get more from actually attacking.

 

[Rentahamster]

I think they should do away with action-based SP gain altogether since it rewards bad behavior.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That's not always the case, however. At later levels, the best things to exp grind on are raptors and efts. Why? Because they have a high damage AoE attack.

Because of this stupid gameplay mechanic that encourages the party to take damage so that the mages can cure for healing SP, the best way to get SP is to all huddle in a pile in front of the raptor's mouth and intentionally get blasted by the fire breath so that the mages can AoE heal for mucho SP.

That just throws the whole "strategic positioning" concept right out the window because yet again, the designers' gameplay systems incentivize players to play the game wrong on purpose.

They huddle in front of the raptor because if anybody stands behind it or to the side, it does a ridiculous circle AOE tail attack which can wipe the whole party instantly unless they are 45+. By standing right in front of the raptor, they prevent it from doing this attack because standing behind it is what triggers the AI to do it. They also all huddle right in front of it because if someone is standing not in front of it and they pull the aggro, that turns the raptor so it's not facing the whole party, again triggering the tail attack. At this moment the only class which can stand anywhere other than right in front of the raptor is archer, because the raptor physically runs to the archer if he pulls aggro and then the raptor is too far away from the rest of the party for the tail attack to trigger. Everybody else has to stand in front of the raptor or risk the wrath of the tail insta-gibbing the whole party.

The raptors weren't supposed to be for people in their 30's, after all, it's just that given a large enough group the raptors are easy to kill if you only let it do the flamethrower attack and not the tail attack, and they give a lot of SP to both fighters and healers. Or in the 40's in a smaller group they still give a lot of SP. Plus healers love it because they can spam Cure I over and over and cap SP every single fight and it requires no effort other than to stand there and wait for the flamethrower and then spam their heals, which is why healers are all going to be at the level cap yesterday. Once you get to the raptors being a mage is a no-effort class to hit the cap with.

I think they should do away with action-based SP gain altogether since it rewards bad behavior.

So what else are they going to do? If they divide SP evenly (or even unevenly) between party members, it will be possible to AFK auto-follow someone else in the party for free SP and XP. Now I personally wouldn't mind that but it's pretty obvious that action-based SP gain is in there to force people to actually play the game instead of AFK for free skillups.

 

[Teknoman]

Argh cant connect after getting disconnected (not the games fault, AT&T doing something). Guess i've got to wait for awhile.

 

[SuperLurker]

So what else are they going to do? If they divide SP evenly (or even unevenly) between party members, it will be possible to AFK auto-follow someone else in the party for free SP and XP. Now I personally wouldn't mind that but it's pretty obvious that action-based SP gain is in there to force people to actually play the game instead of AFK for free skillups.

IMO each monster should have a set amount of SP that is evenly divided between each party member. The more people in the party, the less SP per member, so the optimum SP would be gotten by fighting as hard a monster as your party can handle. Extra AFK people in the party would just be eating SP, which most people wouldn't care for unless maybe if they were getting payed. Right now the system isn't much different than AFK for free skillups, its just get in a giant party and mash buttons.

 

[Rentahamster]

@ unknown soldier- I didn't mention the tail attack because it doesn't matter. Even if the raptors didn't have the tail attack, you would still have people huddled in front of the raptor to intentionally get blasted because that is the best way to get heal SP.

The tail attack is just like the does' back kick, and its easy enought to avoid as long as the tank keeps hate. Well, I shouldn't say easy cuz its kinda hard to do.


I don't think afk people on auto follow would be an issue because that would just make it so that each person gets less SP individually. Or it can also be made so that you are only eligtible for SP if you did at least one successful action during the fight.

I mean, people do the afk auto follow thing now anyway, so its not like anything would be different.

 

[Teknoman]

IMO each monster should have a set amount of SP that is evenly divided between each party member. The more people in the party, the less SP per member, so the optimum SP would be gotten by fighting as hard a monster as your party can handle. Extra AFK people in the party would just be eating SP, which most people wouldn't care for unless maybe if they were getting payed. Right now the system isn't much different than AFK for free skillups, its just get in a giant party and mash buttons.

Bolded should be what XIV progresses towards. I know S-E wants to be "original" but you dont have to reinvent the wheel with everything. Really I just want it to be fun/challenging to have a small party for leveling up, and a large one for tackling NMs/story bosses (more party missions please).

 

[Jinko]

I think all that anyone wants is what superlurker suggests, if people go AFK then the leader can kick them, if its the leader who AFK's youjust drop and remake the party.

I really hate the 15 man parties in this game, if they could bring back 6 man parties like in 11 with standardised XP per mob I would party like no tomorrow.

How they got it so wrong is crazy.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I think all that anyone wants is what superlurker suggests, if people go AFK then the leader can kick them, if its the leader who AFK's youjust drop and remake the party.

I really hate the 15 man parties in this game, if they could bring back 6 man parties like in 11 with standardised XP per mob I would party like no tomorrow.

How they got it so wrong is crazy.

Then why don't you form a 6 man party? I play in a 4-man party, and that seems a great number - as long as we are fighting challenging creatures, it's incredibly fun, and we *have* to play our roles correctly (we have a tank, ranged damage dealer, healer/damage dealer, and debuffer/damage dealer).

 

[Teknoman]

Got a point there actually. Now its just easier to make alliances (no form alliance, just keep inviting). Have to force a party limit yourself if you want. The search engine works ok too...but people just need an incentive to party. Hopefully thats what this patch will bring (also it'll stop us from speculating :lol ).

 

[Rentahamster]

I think they should just design the game so that the natural tendency is to have 4-6 man parties - and then actually tell the players what to do.

Like, explicitly say that 4-6 man parties are ideal for normal play, but if you so wish, you can have up to 15-man parties, although they may not necessarily be ideal for SP gain. Then they should say that 4-6 man parties are good for SP gain, whereas 15-man parties are good for taking on really hard monsters that you have no business fighting regularly, NM hunting, item farmin, etc.

 

[Jinko]

Then why don't you form a 6 man party? I play in a 4-man party, and that seems a great number - as long as we are fighting challenging creatures, it's incredibly fun, and we *have* to play our roles correctly (we have a tank, ranged damage dealer, healer/damage dealer, and debuffer/damage dealer).

Because the SP is still incredibly broken, why would I party when I feel as if i am competing with players more than I am helping/teaming up.

You are totally right that 4-6 is much more enjoyable, but the SP gains are just as shit (most of the time) so why bother.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I just spent the whole day looking for a decent party at rank 38. All I found was the purple shield LS who proceeded to die a bunch of times and disband after an hour. There is nobody left to play with now. This game died as fast as Aion did.

 

[hgplayer1]

I keep wondering if level sync will ever make its way into this game. It was one of the things I was very surprised not to see in the game from the start. I think they believed the armory system would act as some kind of substitute for it but it just hasnt.

 

[Kagari]

I just spent the whole day looking for a decent party at rank 38. All I found was the purple shield LS who proceeded to die a bunch of times and disband after an hour. There is nobody left to play with now. This game died as fast as Aion did.

I'm waiting for the big patch before I play again I think.

 

[DrDogg]

I wouldn't go that far. Sorting may not be a bullet point on the back of the box but I never level disciple of land because sorting through the 160 spaces between me and my retainer and figuring out what's valuable, what I could give to shell mates, what I could sell and what's trash is a huge chore.

For me at least, inventory sort is a huge step to making me play more.

I feel you on the FFXIV not feeling as fun as FFXI did though. I blame that entirely on having nothing to work towards (lack of a chocobo license, airship pass, kazham, etc.)

I level both DoL jobs. I need more inventory space. Sorting it would only save me a small amount of time. If time management is the issue, you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO at all.

I also do not think that having something to work toward would change anything for me. When I got my first job to 75 in FFXI, all I wanted to do was take another one to 75. Endgame was there, but it wasn't my goal. I had fun partying.

If the party mechanic of FFXIV was as enjoyable as the party mechanic in FFXI, I'd have CON, THM and GLA all over 30 with at least one at 50 by now. Instead, I'm ranking 11 jobs (soon to be 13), and have almost no desire to party because it's just stupid. Partying in this game is retarded.

 

[Teknoman]

I just spent the whole day looking for a decent party at rank 38. All I found was the purple shield LS who proceeded to die a bunch of times and disband after an hour. There is nobody left to play with now. This game died as fast as Aion did.

Still lots of low rank people running around 20 and below camps. And of course everyones putting stuff on hold for the patches. Combat and partying should be more enjoyable if the nov. patch works out the way it should. Theres still other fixes/additions that havent been mentioned yet i'm sure. Wish they would post full patch note before the day of the maintenance. And yeah, there should be text from npcs that mention ideal partying sizes.

Anyway, think there will be an aoe voke at some point, since the game seems to have more group vs group combat than usual?

 

[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

I level both DoL jobs. I need more inventory space. Sorting it would only save me a small amount of time. If time management is the issue, you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO at all.

I've played WoW and FFXI through to endgame on multiple characters and did all the significant end-game content in both (barring whatever they added after wings of the goddess), time isn't an issue.

The issue is spending an hour going through my inventory a waste of time and effort when my inventory fills up just as fast as I empty it.

If your entire problem is the partying system then maybe you shouldn't be playing this MMO at all :lol

 

[Dreamwriter]

Because the SP is still incredibly broken, why would I party when I feel as if i am competing with players more than I am helping/teaming up.

You are totally right that 4-6 is much more enjoyable, but the SP gains are just as shit (most of the time) so why bother.

Me and my friends play for *fun*, not rapid SP gain Which is why we used a 4-person party 99% of the time in FFXI as well, though EXP gain would have been faster with 6 people. Only time we ever grabbed an extra couple people were for certain boss fights we just couldn't do with 4. Did that for 3 1/2 years.

 

[DrDogg]

I've played WoW and FFXI through to endgame on multiple characters and did all the significant end-game content in both (barring whatever they added after wings of the goddess), time isn't an issue.

The issue is spending an hour going through my inventory a waste of time and effort when my inventory fills up just as fast as I empty it.

Sounds like a contradiction to me...

That said, I'm confused as to why it takes you an hour to go through your inventory. It takes me maybe 10 minutes to go through all 160 inventory slots.

If your entire problem is the partying system then maybe you shouldn't be playing this MMO at all :lol

I have FAR more problems with FFXIV than just the party system. And I think we all agree that the game needs a significant amount of work.

Me and my friends play for *fun*, not rapid SP gain Which is why we used a 4-person party 99% of the time in FFXI as well, though EXP gain would have been faster with 6 people. Only time we ever grabbed an extra couple people were for certain boss fights we just couldn't do with 4. Did that for 3 1/2 years.

"Fun" is a relative term. What's fun for you may not be fun for others. There's no way I'd have any fun in a 4-man FFXI party... especially not for 3.5 years. And it doesn't matter who I'm playing with in FFXIV. It will not be fun until SE gets their heads out of their asses.

 

[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

That said, I'm confused as to why it takes you an hour to go through your inventory. It takes me maybe 10 minutes to go through all 160 inventory slots.

Then you're holding on to the vast majority of your inventory, or you find some bizarre enjoyment in watching the horrible UI lag when you drop/trade items.

Managing your inventory in this game borders on masochism.

 

[Jinko]

Me and my friends play for *fun*

Isn't that the only point in playing computer games ?

Isn't the reason why so many people have left this game because there is very little fun to be had ?

 

[Meeru]

Iknew this game would suck balls

 

[FieryBalrog]

Then you're holding on to the vast majority of your inventory, or you find some bizarre enjoyment in watching the horrible UI lag when you drop/trade items.

Managing your inventory in this game borders on masochism.

It's worse. Real physical pain is a very sharp sensation that focuses the mind and releases adrenaline and other hormones. It ain't got nothing on this.

 

[jiggle]

incredibly disappointed with the sp change
even if they double the rate and amount
hell, triple it
it will still suck
leve progression just shouldn't be random!


but does it suck enough for me to quit
hmm

 

[Teknoman]

Lets just wait till after the patch, and then make that conclusion.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Isn't that the only point in playing computer games ?

Isn't the reason why so many people have left this game because there is very little fun to be had ?

No, some people seem to hate it only because they can't solo up to max level in a couple days.

 

[notworksafe]

No, some people seem to hate it only because they can't solo up to max level in a couple days.

Doesn't seem that's why people are bitching to me. Plus they all know there's no point to hitting max anyway, since there's nothing at endgame.

 

[Rentahamster]

No, some people seem to hate it only because they can't solo up to max level in a couple days.

That's not it at all...

 

[Atrus]

Anyway, think there will be an aoe voke at some point, since the game seems to have more group vs group combat than usual?

Aside from leves I don't see group vs. group at all and the game itself doesn't facilitate it when parties can only claim one mob. Even with the quests, everything is designed for solo play and few quests even have actual battles. I mean at least Lancer fights something in their rank 20 quest, Pugilists spend 2 minutes picking up coins off the ground.

I'm also confused as to why there's even a need to significantly decrease the SP to 20. Nobody complained about pre-20 and hell even up to the mid-30's it'll be tolerable but the fact of the matter is that the whole process is drawn out and unrewarding. It's actually worse than in FFXI since the scenery doesn't change, you're killing significantly larger numbers of mobs, and there's no pride in strategy of any sort.

 

[skitzophrenicdontpanic]

Alliteratively Announcing Additional Adjustments and Alterations (11/22/2010)

Anima Costs

• Return cost halved to 1 anima
• Teleport cost halved to the three city-states
• This is in addition to being able to select 3 favorite destinations (camps)

Guildleves

• Given the ability to adjust battle leve difficulty after initiated (can only lower difficulty)
• Balance adjustments to the strength of enemies in leve quests
• Minimap will continue to display enemies regardless of difference in elevation in relation to the player
• Leve-Linking will give players larger skill and experience point rewards
• Leve-Linking will be optional

December Update

• New Guildleves
• Some will be notorious monster encounters

The bottom notes that another topic will be talking about the changes to the loot system and behests.

I guess the final two topics before the update goes live will be that and NMs.

 

[Rentahamster]

Interesting Lodestone post...


@Teknoman - There already is an AoE 'voke. It's a rank 30 marauder skill.

 

[Teknoman]

Glad I like the idea behind marauders then. Behest system change better be:

• Greater rewards
• Everyone involved can target monsters

Was leve-linking turning in other leves for bonuses on new ones? Or just multiple people having the same leve?

EDIT: Also seems like the December update will be fairly early on, since they keep talking about those updates in the same topic.

 

[Rentahamster]

"Leve-linking" is when two more people holding the same leve inititate a leve.

Before, you wouldn't really want to do it since you cut down the amount of times you can leve since everyone's overlapping.

I like how they give you a choice now

leve-link - more SP, but you can only do the leve once

not leve link - maybe more maybe less SP since you can do the leves multiple times now. Also, more chances for item drops.

 

[demosthenes]

incredibly disappointed with the sp change
even if they double the rate and amount
hell, triple it
it will still suck
leve progression just shouldn't be random!


but does it suck enough for me to quit
hmm

What change? I didn't know they specified one yet, just said that adjustments will be made.

 

[Coldsnap]

Given the ability to adjust leve difficulty after initiated (can only lower difficulty).

wtf....

 

[Rentahamster]

wtf....

I actually think that's not such a bad idea. It (sorta) encourages you to calculate what is the hardest difficulty you can handle before you start.

 

[Coldsnap]

I actually think that's not such a bad idea. It (sorta) encourages you to calculate what is the hardest difficulty you can handle before you start.

I havn't taken anything past r25 but I could always take the highest one, just get better support or use food accordingly. I was just excited about the idea to change difficulties because It sucks to only get r1 leves, last week I only had r1 leves in all three cities.

 

[Teknoman]

How can you only have Rank 1 leves? Also how do you know what foods increase what? There are no attribute changes after eating (that I can see) in the stats menu.

 

[SuperLurker]

I think the lodestone is referring to battle leves while Coldsnap is referring to local leves.

 

[Teknoman]

I think the lodestone is referring to battle leves while Coldsnap is referring to local leves.

Oh right, should've known that by support part. Carry on

 

[Salaadin]

A friend just said this was edited into the SP post from the other day:

"The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties."

 

[notworksafe]

So they made it work like a normal MMO. Took long enough.

 

[Teknoman]

A friend just said this was edited into the SP post from the other day:

"The amount of skill points earned in battle is now determined by the enemy being encountered, rather than by the number or type of actions performed. As a result, players will no longer receive several skill points awards throughout the duration of combat. Instead, there will be only one lump sum of skill points awarded after an enemy is defeated.

Additionally, discrepancies in the amount of skill points awarded to party members of varying ranks have been reduced. For players of the same rank, this amount will now be the same, regardless of activity during combat. Together with these changes, the overall number of skill points awarded has also been increased, making progression easier even in smaller parties."