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Final Fantasy XIV |OT| ARR: Alpha Closed. Beta mid-Feb
- Thread starter demosthenes
- Start date
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Unknown Soldier said:
So DoM are an exception to this "superior" system? What about GLA? To properly play GLA you need almost every class at 50. It's ridiculous...
Unknown Soldier said:
I've had issue with a lot of the stuff you've been saying, but this takes the cake. :lol
The challenge in FFXI that's missing in FFXIV is in playing your job well. It takes virtually no skill to play FFXIV classes well. It took significantly more skill to play FFXI jobs well. Even the basic melee jobs in FFXI were far more challenging to play well compared to FFXIV class.
A very small part of the challenge was the death penalty, and the fact that you would bring that up as the "challenge" makes me realize you have no idea what made FFXI good compared to FFXIV. Making that statement is like saying SE should charge 2 anima to use Return after a death to make the game "challenging"... which would not add much challenge at all.
Although I will say that I refuse to death port in FFXIV despite the lack of death penalty. Mainly due to my FFXI days... :lol
Really looking forward to seeing if we will get a New Years event like in FFXI. It would be cool to get fancy robes and be able to fish with cute little nets.
FFXI endgame was and still is challenging. Not really sure if Unknown has done all of Sky, TOAU areas, Sea, and all the other HNM fights.
FFXI endgame was and still is challenging. Not really sure if Unknown has done all of Sky, TOAU areas, Sea, and all the other HNM fights.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
With the release of Abyssea the death exp penalty in FFXI is pretty much a non-factor when it comes to endgame.
And I would agree FFXi has had some nice challenge to it's endgame. The LS I am in is usually some of the first people to attempt new mobs and such and figuring out the strategy to win is always fun.
And I would agree FFXi has had some nice challenge to it's endgame. The LS I am in is usually some of the first people to attempt new mobs and such and figuring out the strategy to win is always fun.
Unknown Soldier said:
Hey, at least they aren't like Armorer. It's pretty easy to see that Armorer was a last minute addition to the game when they didn't even bother to give it a guild unto itself. The counter is split between Armorer and Blacksmith, and being the later addition, their guild mark NPC was placed elsewhere in the room rather than behind the counter.
Unlike other jobs that synth their own base mats, Armorer has to rely on other jobs to synth the ingots for it. Instead of getting their own standalone quest, Armorer and Blacksmith quests are combined. This means that you can only take one or the other, not both.
Armorer was pretty much a second thought and probably split to weaken Blacksmith because a class that could synth and repair both weapons and armor of the type that is usually most prevalent in MMO's would be fare better than everything else.
jiggle said:
Fair. Infinitely better lag, faster crafting, party SP is still borked but you'll get a ton more Behest pick-ups (for all of 10 minutes that they normally last), solo SP is better, but much of the game still disappointing.
Since I'm going away on vacation for 3.5 weeks, I won't be playing and will miss the next update so I won't get to see if quests are actually being added to the game. Somehow when I looked at the games features list, I didn't think to ask whether a quest system was included because I incorrectly assumed a mandated genre staple would be expected.
It will be interesting to see if the 'sometime in December' but likely close to Christmas patch is actually significant.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Lead coblyns only spawn in the horizon area as far as I know. The northern areas have a lot, too.
This was just posted on Gamasutra...
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...tails_Potential_Fixes_For_Beleaguered_MMO.php
I'd wondered if this was part of why they did this, and I guess I was right to?
However, all this really does is show that Square/Japan just don't fucking get the internet at all: because they didn't provide a service in their game, the internet is creating several alternatives.
None of those will likely ever be as convenient or transparent as the auction house, so maybe it will have succeeded in some small measure? But it still basically means that they hurt their game for no reason.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...tails_Potential_Fixes_For_Beleaguered_MMO.php
I'd wondered if this was part of why they did this, and I guess I was right to?
However, all this really does is show that Square/Japan just don't fucking get the internet at all: because they didn't provide a service in their game, the internet is creating several alternatives.
None of those will likely ever be as convenient or transparent as the auction house, so maybe it will have succeeded in some small measure? But it still basically means that they hurt their game for no reason.
HappyBivouac
Member
Ravidrath said:
Something tells me this is going to be more racism/nationalism/xenophobia fuel for the Japanese. Ugh.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I'm not sure why both can't coexist. Bazaar system in XI was a nice supplement to the hugely innovative auction house, but it can't carry the game's economy on its own.
Man those user comments at the article are harsh...
For example -
MMOs have become black holes for money. FF14 isn't the only MMO to completely ignore user feedback. The more cash that goes into an MMO the less risk that company takes. In result the more of a failure the product will be. Best chance Square has now is to scrap the game and start over. FFXII could be a great MMO. By this point trying to save FF14 is a waste of money. The fans aren't coming back to that game.
I know XIV needs lots of adjustments, improvements, and content implementation...but I dont think the situation is that dire to the effect that the game is completely dead.
Had no idea XI pioneered the idea of an auction house though.
For example -
MMOs have become black holes for money. FF14 isn't the only MMO to completely ignore user feedback. The more cash that goes into an MMO the less risk that company takes. In result the more of a failure the product will be. Best chance Square has now is to scrap the game and start over. FFXII could be a great MMO. By this point trying to save FF14 is a waste of money. The fans aren't coming back to that game.
I know XIV needs lots of adjustments, improvements, and content implementation...but I dont think the situation is that dire to the effect that the game is completely dead.
Had no idea XI pioneered the idea of an auction house though.
Teknoman said:
Well, Gamasutra's comments are roughly 10% better than Kotaku's in quality. They should really find a way to clamp down and make them only for, like... verified developers or something.
I also think that is wrong. The game will be completely different by the time it comes out on PS3, and I expect that you'll see things that are just shy of re-reviews popping up around then.
Eccocid said:There is no exp loss in death penalty?
That was a nice thing i think. It automatically pushes ppl to play better and more careful and you can always bash other party members when you die in a party lol
Nope. There's absolutely no penalty for dying in FFXIV.
Ravidrath said:
W.T.F.
On the plus side, SE is not completely retarded since they knew the system was not great and they're still open to an auction house. I get that SE needed to experiment now, before the PS3 release. Because if they started with an auction house, then tried to remove it to test the ward system, there'd be a huge backlash.
That said... SE knew the system would be inconvenient, but decided to use the Ward system in hopes that higher profits would be found? But SE is giving us gil hand over fist. What's the point of making even more gil when our current gil is WAY more than we need?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's the big WTF part of the article for me - that the only way players could hope to make a profit on sales was by implementing a system that is inconvenient by design and intentionally fosters ignorance of item value upon the buyers and sellers.DrDogg said:
C'mon, there's gotta be a better way. I'd gladly swap out my supposed profit margin if I could find what I want without having to waste 30 minutes of my time.
Allowing not just sellers, but also buyers to compete on prices would also help to stabilize prices as well.
Ravidrath said:
PS3 launch is the only thing that can save this game now, lets hope SE can get their shit together by then.
Take the economy out of the players hands completely, ie set prices.
Players can still sell stuff but have no choice how much for, it's pretty clear that most players can't be trusted when it comes to being greedy.
I'm guessing he's talking about crafting for the profits? But generally I agree.
Also, I didn't get that they're considering an AH at all from that... I got they were talking about AH vs. Market Wards being judged in the grand scope of history, not for this game.
Also, there is a "delivery service" coming to the markets and retainers, which makes me think that between that and search, we'll effectively have an AH...?
Well, the game isn't done.
I suspect Company housing and airships will be HUGE gilsinks, much like the mounts, etc. are in WoW, and that will restore value to the currency, most likely.
Also, I didn't get that they're considering an AH at all from that... I got they were talking about AH vs. Market Wards being judged in the grand scope of history, not for this game.
Also, there is a "delivery service" coming to the markets and retainers, which makes me think that between that and search, we'll effectively have an AH...?
DrDogg said:
Well, the game isn't done.
I suspect Company housing and airships will be HUGE gilsinks, much like the mounts, etc. are in WoW, and that will restore value to the currency, most likely.
Dreamwriter
Member
Well, Square's point was, in FFXI, the lowest bid *always* wins. All it took to devalue an item was to put a dozen copies of that item up for sale and then buy them yourself for cheap. The price history now shows that item as cheap, and people love cheap, so they buy them for that amount. Someone tries to fix it by charging more, and their items don't sell.Rentahamster said:
Of course, then gil-sellers with bots would corner the market on an item and charge an ass-load for it...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well that was an underwhelming version update.
Dreamwriter said:
I never had an issue with the FFXI AH.
It should be noted that between my brother and I, we amassed close to 60 or 70 million gil in FFXI, and ended up outright buying the Kraken club. I've done a host of things in FFXI to make money and relied on the stable market prices to create in-game financial planning. It was probably the second-most entertaining aspect of the game.
The simple concept of arbitrage would allow people to sell above cost because any item sold under fair value could simply be bought out and then resold. Item limitations force merchants to distribute items in such a manner that their inventory turns over faster than they can obtain the item and of course there is no limitation imposed on how many items a person can buy.
I remember once in the games infancy where because of general human stupidity whenever it comes to anything involving finances, competition reduced the price of Zinc Ores to below what you could get vendoring it.
People whine more so because like real world economics, market systems do not favor everyone. They only favor the capable or able and by and large the vast majority never do exceedingly well, the one thing ALL players in a game want to do.
The FFXIV system is just broken all around. Runaway currency growth gives people lots of gil but it comes at the cost of reducing the value of the currency to nothing. Items are constantly undercut because nobody has any control over their inventory turnover, and you can barely give things away because items rarely leave the game, and the ability to wear any item essentially makes all items within a category compete with each other.
Instead of implementing FFXI's system and advancing it with measures like Anti-Money Laundering techniques to cripple gil-sellers, and tweaking the supply and sale mechanics, SE decided to build a system based on a whim or intention.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Atrus said:
Most people play games to escape the cruel market-driven world, not simulate another one. But you sound like you love that sort of thing, so maybe you should play EVE. The hardcoreness of the market simulation in EVE is almost identical to real-world markets, to the point where economists have done serious studies of it's in-game markets.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Dreamwriter said:
Perhaps if they made it an actual auction, rather than making it so that whatever is priced lowest sells first regardless of when it was put up for sale. I really don't have a problem with the XI system from an end-user standpoint but if SE wanted to keep people from undercutting the market value of items constantly, they could have just built a real, consumer-controlled auction system.
Londa said:
One of the last great buffalo of Vylbrand, Tarbh Uisge was captured while still a calf by an ambitious mummer and trained to entertain audiences around Eorzea. Repeated application of stimulatory and suppressive magicks, however, have slowly eaten away at the beast's sanity, rendering it violent and unpredictable. After its capture nearly a decade ago, Tarbh Uisge was imprisoned on a remote island in the Rhotano Sea and soon forgotten by all...
Wanted: Tarbh Uisge
Not long ago, Mathistien of the Cloven Hoof and his traveling grotesquery was one of the realm's most popular exhibitions. People would flock from all around the countryside to see such spectacles as the two-headed nannygoat, the hairless phurble, and the show's main attractionthe colossal Tarbh Uisge. However, it was not until after the giant creature broke loose from its fetters and trampled through Limsa Lominsa, starting a fire that destroyed hundreds of buildings and killed countless innocent citizens, including two high-ranking thalassocratic officials, that it was revealed that Mathistien was actually an assassin for the Zer'maat Five. Needless to say, the mummer was promptly arrested and exiled to a lonely island prison in the Cieldalaes, where he has remained in solitude for the past ten years...or so we thought, for lately there have been rumors that the assassin has fled his island prison and is not only back on Vylbrand, but has brought with him his loyal pet, Tarbh Uisge. Azeyma's Shields is certain that this is the work of the Zer'maat Five, and will stop at nothing to recapture this dangerous criminal and bring him back to justice.
Levequest Location
Bloodshore
Those who are successful in slaying Tarbh Uisge will be rewarded with a special item known as an Allagan runestone. There are a dozen in all, each representing one of the twelve deities who watch over the peoples of Eorzea. Rumor has that in Ul'dah resides a young trader named Rowena who seeks these rare stones and is offering pieces of finely crafted equipment in exchange.
The following is an example of some of the items available for barter:
Worn by Ishgardian temple knights who have pledged their lives in service of the Fury, this suit of stunning silver plate and chain is an breathtaking display of master craftsmanship.
Favors: GLA MRD LNC ARM MIN
Optimal Rank: 49
So apparently there will be more sets availible to buy with NM dropped runestones, rather than just the displayed sets (Templar and that Jester set). Also seems like it may be best to mix and match sets rather than wear the full thing...for some classes anyway.
* Templar's Chain Coif
o Defense 67
o Magic Defense 56
o Evasion 12
o Resilience 63
o HP: +30
o DEX: +3
o Elemental Resistances: +18
Allagan Runestone - Byregot
* Templar's Haubergeon
o Defense 130
o Magic Defense 78
o Evasion 28
o Resilience 63
o STR: +8
o DEX: +4
o Elemental Resistances: +23
Allagan Runestone - Rhalgr
* Templar's Sollerets
o Defense 50
o Magic Defense 50
o Evasion 20
o Resilience 52
o STR: +1
o Elemental Resistances: +12
Allagan Runestone - Llymlaen
* Templar's Tassets
o Defense 17
o Magic Defense 16
o Evasion 7
o Resilience 16
o HP: +14
o MP: +6
o Elemental Resistances: +7
Allagan Runestone - Halone
* The aforementioned items are still under development and may change before the time of their release.
Also needs more side quests exploring the story of the Zer'maat Five. So far we've got beastmen, an evil empire, and now some shadowy group of assassins. Do something with it S-E!
The new NM they unveiled today is fucking enormous! Should definitely be a sight to see.
So far the screens have shown NMs for the Black Shroud and La Noscea... I expect the next one will be Thanalan and give armor for the remaining DoW classes?
I initially expected they'd be for Crafting/Gathering classes, but it looks like they're not going to do that... curious if we'll see something similar introduced for them as well.
So far the screens have shown NMs for the Black Shroud and La Noscea... I expect the next one will be Thanalan and give armor for the remaining DoW classes?
I initially expected they'd be for Crafting/Gathering classes, but it looks like they're not going to do that... curious if we'll see something similar introduced for them as well.
MomoPufflet
Member
DrDogg said:
This is... actually a really excellent point. The endgame implications are pretty scary if left unchanged.
FrankNitty
Member
MomoPufflet said:
It is definitely something that needs to be looked at, but at the same time it was pretty similar in FFXI though you just had to have jobs leveled high enough to sub, Ex. a RDM w a WHM sub was nice, but you had to have BLM lvled also, and then even later end game depending on the shell, you needed SMN and NIN, as well as possible others. So it's not out of the ordinary just depends on the standards and requirements of the shell. It kind of makes sense though but is extreme to a degree if you absolutely have to have both at 50.
Only reason Im doing it is just because thats what I do. Might as well do it right, if Im going to do it. They do need to implement something like being able to buy skills with marks or something. Not everyone is going to be willing to lvl a 2nd and/or 3rd job right away to 50
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, it's a little underwhelming. Slightly shinier versions of the stuff we've seen already. Wheee.Azrael said:
Unknown Soldier
Member
FrankNitty said:
If you actually look at the skills for DoW classes you will see that Squenix actually thought of this. If you really want to level multiple DoW classes to support your main job, you can stop them at 20. Leveling another DoW class to 50 is strictly optional.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I mentioned this in chat yesterday but I thought it would be fun (and funny! :lol) if this made it out to the thread at large.
Following from this thread:
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/28297-your-ffxiv-character-theme-song/
What is your FFXIV character's theme song? Link to Youtube with the song or NO CREDIT!
Following from this thread:
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/28297-your-ffxiv-character-theme-song/
What is your FFXIV character's theme song? Link to Youtube with the song or NO CREDIT!
Notorious Monsters - Drake's Misfortune (12/08/2010)
all that needs to be posted:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=c19faf5cfe02fe5a121c9d162bcc6086ca9da632
click link to look at the new levequest NM with a list of drops.
all that needs to be posted:
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=c19faf5cfe02fe5a121c9d162bcc6086ca9da632
click link to look at the new levequest NM with a list of drops.
Is it just me, or are those stats kinda off for disciples of war? Unless perception and resilience do something for melee classes i'm unaware of.
* Buccaneer's Tricorne
o Defense 53
o Magic Defense 68
o Evasion 18
o Resilience 61
o HP: +24
o INT: +3
o Elemental Resistances: +24
Allagan Runestone - Azeyma
* Buccaneer's Shirt
o Defense 85
o Magic Defense 80
o Evasion 35
o Resilience 50
o MND: +1
o PIE: +2
o Gathering: +18
o Craftsmanship: +20
o Elemental Resistances: +33
Allagan Runestone - Althyk
* Buccaneer's Boots
Defense 36
Magic Defense 59
Evasion 36
Resilience 47
DEX: +1
o Elemental Resistances: +15 Defense 36
o Magic Defense 59
o Evasion 36
o Resilience 47
o DEX: +1
o Elemental Resistances: +15
Allagan Runestone - Menphina
* Buccaneer's Sash
o Defense 17
o Magic Defense 17
o Evasion 8
o Resilience 17
o Perception: +14
o Elemental Resistances: +6
Allagan Runestone - Thaliak
Still under development of course, but still. Maybe its eva gear for pugilists?
Oh yeah:
Alchemically Enhanced Bioweapon Zanig'oh
* Buccaneer's Tricorne
o Defense 53
o Magic Defense 68
o Evasion 18
o Resilience 61
o HP: +24
o INT: +3
o Elemental Resistances: +24
Allagan Runestone - Azeyma
* Buccaneer's Shirt
o Defense 85
o Magic Defense 80
o Evasion 35
o Resilience 50
o MND: +1
o PIE: +2
o Gathering: +18
o Craftsmanship: +20
o Elemental Resistances: +33
Allagan Runestone - Althyk
* Buccaneer's Boots
Defense 36
Magic Defense 59
Evasion 36
Resilience 47
DEX: +1
o Elemental Resistances: +15 Defense 36
o Magic Defense 59
o Evasion 36
o Resilience 47
o DEX: +1
o Elemental Resistances: +15
Allagan Runestone - Menphina
* Buccaneer's Sash
o Defense 17
o Magic Defense 17
o Evasion 8
o Resilience 17
o Perception: +14
o Elemental Resistances: +6
Allagan Runestone - Thaliak
Still under development of course, but still. Maybe its eva gear for pugilists?
Oh yeah:
Alchemically Enhanced Bioweapon Zanig'oh
MomoPufflet
Member
Teknoman said:
I don't get it either, especially the gathering/crafting stats on the body. Nothing about it makes sense-- pirate armor for fighters with no battle stats? :lol I'm sure(?) there will be changes, but it seems like they are really pushing this shit out the door to keep us pacified til the December update.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, it's retarded how they talk about the Sahagin all the damn time, yet you never see one. I had no idea what the hell they were talking about for the longest time. Ridiculous...Teknoman said:
@cmagus - go kill lead coblyns in the horizon area.
Atrus said:
Armorer and Blacksmith sharing the same class quest line is also a dead giveaway that they were originally intended to be a single class.
I'm pretty disappointed with how Blacksmith turned out. I can't practically make my own swords with it because the blade parts typically require a Blacksmith skill of ~15 ranks higher than the rank of the weapon. Blacksmith and Gladiator should naturally complement each other, but I would have been better off leveling Carpenter and using Maculhutis, since the ingredient and skill requirements are much more reasonable.
So any ideas on ways they can vary up crafting and gathering leves?
While those activities are fairly narrow, surely there must be ways to give them a little variety. Even if just presentationally?
Crafting
Craft and assemble a multi-part item from start to finish - i.e. forge the metal, make the hilt, make the blade, assemble them into a sword
Crafting minigame to meet "demand" for a restaurant/store/etc. in real time
Crafting items to help NPCs defend an area or defeat a monster
Gathering
Secondary gathering - quarrying / spearfishing / harvesting
Find different items from different points that need to be combined by an NPC to find a final point? (Parts of a skeleton that a necromancer animates to lead you to a hidden spot?)
Gathering to feed/pay a friendly beastman defector, who leads you around and asks for certain items?
Digging up throwable weapons to kill monsters?
While those activities are fairly narrow, surely there must be ways to give them a little variety. Even if just presentationally?
Crafting
Craft and assemble a multi-part item from start to finish - i.e. forge the metal, make the hilt, make the blade, assemble them into a sword
Crafting minigame to meet "demand" for a restaurant/store/etc. in real time
Crafting items to help NPCs defend an area or defeat a monster
Gathering
Secondary gathering - quarrying / spearfishing / harvesting
Find different items from different points that need to be combined by an NPC to find a final point? (Parts of a skeleton that a necromancer animates to lead you to a hidden spot?)
Gathering to feed/pay a friendly beastman defector, who leads you around and asks for certain items?
Digging up throwable weapons to kill monsters?
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