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[theSlacker]

So you can get to cap pretty easily, then what? Just grinding for endgame gear? If that's the case, can anyone give me a quick rundown of how ARR endgame may differ from FFXI endgame?

The billion dollar question right there. How to deal with endgame, and make people want to keep playing/put out new content fast enough. It is something that I've seen every game that I've played since quitting FFXI and WoW struggle with, and why I assume they all fail or go f2p so fast these days.

Yeah, I also think they'll go this route, even if it has its own problems.
I guess they can always do something like... scout? > ranger, or something weird like that. Then again, maybe that's more fitting for thief? Gah, whatever.

It is the problem with the armory system. A weapon type means a class, and then you are locked into that class with the same skills until the job skills.

 

[Lucis]

They can add some party oriented stuff that works something like REPUTATION in WOW (lol i know right wow).

You basically grind some type of reputation in a party oriented (or solo) envrionment, which gives you reward or perks of some sort, it can be equipement, or even cosmetic/vanity type

 

[desu]

Well, for endgame content, there are apparently at least 5-6 more dungeons besides AV,CC, DD and the ones we have in the beta right now. One is probably the lvl45 dungeon they showed off in concept art in one of the live letters, another is one for lvl50 for sure. Obviously that's no indicator of the final content, could be more or less but it seems likely that those in the files are at least the closest to be somewhat done. There isn't really anything on primals beyond the ones from 1.x mentioned either.

 

[PolishQ]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61149-Hyur-Naming-Conventions

Interesting how they basically come right out and say "Eddard Stark" is an acceptable Midlander name.

 

[Riposte]

Blaetrhot Pfarskoefsyn

How do you pronounce the second word here? lol

Also I'm following the rules right?

EDIT: Forgot the "son" part I suppose.

 

[Jinko]

Which is why I think it is more likely for them to add more base classes, and keep it at 1 job per base class. Meaning you will have to level it from the start like in FFXI. The biggest problem with that is how they have already done Archer -> Bard instead of Ranger.

I thought Yoshi confirmed that they do plan to have more more than 1 job per class eventually.

 

[Riposte]

What would Ranger give to an Archer, anyway?

 

[Mature]

What would Ranger give to an Archer, anyway?

Traps! A hawk familiar! More Bow Skills!

Spoiler

/Ragnarok Online

 

[Riposte]

Aside from some semi-useful utility abilities, the Ranger in FFXI wasn't anything more than a range attack specialization in terms of flavor (in other words, not very "Ranger"-ish). Aside from the ability to use other types of ranged weapons, the Archer seems to be have absorbed it whole.

 

[Mileena]

Aside from some semi-useful utility abilities, the Ranger in FFXI wasn't anything more than a range attack specialization in terms of flavor (in other words, not very "Ranger"-ish). Aside from the ability to use other types of ranged weapons, the Archer seems to be have absorbed it whole.

RNG/WAR was a phenom. NOT your typical archer.

 

[theSlacker]

Aside from some semi-useful utility abilities, the Ranger in FFXI wasn't anything more than a range attack specialization in terms of flavor (in other words, not very "Ranger"-ish). Aside from the ability to use other types of ranged weapons, the Archer seems to be have absorbed it whole.

And a Dragoon in XI was a useless dps/pet class, while it isn't in XIV. The main point with Ranger wasn't claiming that they would be super good, but it is the traditional bow job for FF, and if they continue with the 1 job per class thing then the bow class already has a job. This may not be the case though.

 

[QisTopTier]

The next range physical class will use guns obviously

 

[theSlacker]

The next range physical class will use guns obviously

Likely. Wasn't there a guild in that port town that had a bunch of gun users? Been a while since I played the original beta.

 

[Mature]

Likely. Wasn't there a guild in that port town that had a bunch of gun users? Been a while since I played the original beta.

Musketeer.

 

[Jinko]

If Musketeer ends up the class, chances are Corsair will be back as the job. (I suppose there is Fusilier also though)

 

[Babalu.]

can anyone link me something that explains the class/job thing thats going to happen?

I want to be a ranged bow user so I became an archer. But now I hear that archer turns into a bard. So I have to use instruments and wear bard AF or something?

What classes and jobs are coming? Can't seem to find a good description of whats going on.

 

[QisTopTier]

can anyone link me something that explains the class/job thing thats going to happen?

I want to be a ranged bow user so I became an archer. But now I hear that archer turns into a bard. So I have to use instruments and wear bard AF or something?

What classes and jobs are coming? Can't seem to find a good description of whats going on.

Bards are still rangers, they are just rangers that give party buffs is all

 

[theSlacker]

If Musketeer ends up the class, chances are Corsair will be back as the job. (I suppose there is Fusilier also though)

Who knows what they will do after the bard thing. Watch it's job be Red Mage.

 

[Ravidrath]

Fusilier almost seems more likely to me, just because Summoner is more of a DoT/Pet class, and not so much focused on debuffs.

 

[Riposte]

And a Dragoon in XI was a useless dps/pet class, while it isn't in XIV. The main point with Ranger wasn't claiming that they would be super good, but it is the traditional bow job for FF, and if they continue with the 1 job per class thing then the bow class already has a job. This may not be the case though.

I don't think you see my point. Dragoon covers a class theme (jumps, wyvern) that wasn't present in Lancer, while you can't really say the same thing for Ranger and Archer. I never brought up what was "good".

There is no reason to think there will be 1 job per class. They all but confirmed that will not be the case. It is only a matter of time.

 

[Ravidrath]

There is no reason to think there will be 1 job per class. They all but confirmed that will not be the case. It is only a matter of time.

Yeah, it almost sounds like is that all of the classes will get "light" and "dark" jobs.

So Gladiator can be Paladin or Dark Knight, Arcanist can be Summoner or Necromancer, etc.

 

[Babalu.]

wait so is everything becoming kind of like ragnarok online back in the day?

everyone started out as a noob class then they picked their next job that can become another two different jobs.

it was like

archer can become a bard or ranger

or something like that?

 

[Mature]

wait so is everything becoming kind of like ragnarok online back in the day?

everyone started out as a noob class then they picked their next job that can become another two different jobs.

it was like

archer can become a bard or ranger

or something like that?

Nah, you only go straight into one job for now. So it'd be like if in Ragnarok you could only go: Acolyte->Priest.

 

[Lucis]

Yeah, it almost sounds like is that all of the classes will get "light" and "dark" jobs.

So Gladiator can be Paladin or Dark Knight, Arcanist can be Summoner or Necromancer, etc.

Is there official quote on this? This sounds exciting.

 

[theSlacker]

I don't think you see my point. Dragoon covers a class theme (jumps, wyvern) that wasn't present in Lancer, while you can't really say the same thing for Ranger and Archer. I never brought up what was "good".

There is no reason to think there will be 1 job per class. They all but confirmed that will not be the case. It is only a matter of time.

Honestly didn't realize you had a point, so you are right, I was just responding to your post to further mine. I do think there is reason to think that there would be only one job per class, but that is before hearing that Yoshi has mentioned otherwise.

The jumps do add flair and a uniqueness to Lancer, but at it's base the lancer skills are still the bread and butter, unless they remove the cooldown from the jumps as well. Meaning that if another job uses lancer as it's base then it will be very similar to a Dragoon. Why I originally assumed that it would be a 1 per thing. Once again, I understand that Yoshi has indicated that this isn't the case, just offering a reasonable reason to have believed otherwise beforehand.

 

[Jarnet87]

The billion dollar question right there. How to deal with endgame, and make people want to keep playing/put out new content fast enough. It is something that I've seen every game that I've played since quitting FFXI and WoW struggle with, and why I assume they all fail or go f2p so fast these days.

Yeah it is always a struggle. I think EQ is one of the few games that did end content well (or they use to). I didn't play at the start but I know it did have a lot of high end encounters in Vanilla (don't know if all at the start or not), and for expansions the same. Some people consider it a grind but doing progression through different dungeons/raids and keying for them can stretch out the length of content. One thing they added that was great was the AA system in Planes of Power.

The AA system basically let you grind exp for extra abilities when you hit the cap, stuff like faster run speed, more base stats etc. There were a whole bunch of them and at least if you were grinding in a group it gave you a reward for it. Too many games now you hit the end and do dungeons and you get nothing out of it except loot. At least the AA system rewarded you that extra grind. More games need to emphasize or add a system like that. SWTOR had the legacy system which sounded a little similar but they needed to have that day 1 not months after capped people were just sitting around bored to death, never got to try that out.

 

[Ala Alba]

Honestly didn't realize you had a point, so you are right, I was just responding to your post to further mine. I do think there is reason to think that there would be only one job per class, but that is before hearing that Yoshi has mentioned otherwise.

The jumps do add flair and a uniqueness to Lancer, but at it's base the lancer skills are still the bread and butter, unless they remove the cooldown from the jumps as well. Meaning that if another job uses lancer as it's base then it will be very similar to a Dragoon. Why I originally assumed that it would be a 1 per thing. Once again, I understand that Yoshi has indicated that this isn't the case, just offering a reasonable reason to have believed otherwise beforehand.

Here are examples of jobs that could completely change the flavor of Lancer and (to me) still seem completely reasonable to have a Lancer as the base class: Beastmaster, Templar, Chocobo Knight (pretty sure that's a job in some FF), or even Dark Knight.

I can probably think of a handful of examples for every class.

Of course, in the end it still comes down to personal opinion, but I think that saying "multiple jobs stemming from the same class would be too similar" is rather unimaginative.

 

[theSlacker]

Here are examples of jobs that could completely change the flavor of Lancer and (to me) still seem completely reasonable to have a Lancer as the base class: Beastmaster, Templar, Chocobo Knight (pretty sure that's a job in some FF), or even Dark Knight.

I can probably think of a handful of examples for every class.

Of course, in the end it still comes down to personal opinion, but I think that saying "multiple jobs stemming from the same class would be too similar" is rather unimaginative.

I prefer to think of it as having lower expectations. I don't think you understand what I am trying to say, or rather what I thought about the game. It isn't that it is hard to think up a bunch of Jobs that could fit with a Lancer/other weapon classes. It is that from the old job skills/datamined new ones it still seems like, for some jobs at least, that the "job" will still rely on all the already gained "class" skills. Meaning that even if you are a beastmaster with lancer as the base, you would still be doing True > Vorpal > Full > Chaos thrust as your main combo. Only instead of jumping every 2 minutes on cool down, you would charm a mob or something. This isn't to say there isn't something they could think up that would completely change the class through use of the job, but that I have a low expectation of them doing so.

Prove me wrong square, prove me wrong.

 

[Ravidrath]

Is there official quote on this? This sounds exciting.

I asked about this in my interview with Yoshi-P at E3 last year.

http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-interview-phoenix-fallen-mmo

1UP: Okay, let's move onto the job system. Because each class can only become one job at the moment, people can't really see a big picture for the job system. Also, in the most recent update, you added class-only gear, and that only confused the matter more. People are wondering, "So am I supposed to use a job, or am I supposed to use a class?" How can we expect to see the job system to change in the future?

NY: First thing is that, currently, it's one class and it turns into one job. But the way that we designed the system is that this won't always be the case. It just happens to currently be the case.

For example - and this does not mean that this is going to happen - but for example, right now the gladiator will change his job to a Paladin. But maybe in the future a gladiator will also be able to change to Dark Knight. Again, this is a maybe... Not saying anything about Dark Knights. But maybe. Just so the players know that, just because there's only one job per class right now doesn't mean this won't change. The way we've designed the system is to allow for multiple jobs to come off of a single class.

He's non-committal to the example I gave above, but it also make a lot of sense, given the history of the Final Fantasy series, etc.

 

[Xux]

Blaetrhot Pfarskoefsyn

How do you pronounce the second word here? lol

Also I'm following the rules right?

EDIT: Forgot the "son" part I suppose.

Looks right to me aside from being one letter over the twenty letter limit.

I was thinking Geisswyda Swyguwilwyn for my character, maybe.

Is there official quote on this? This sounds exciting.

He also mentioned it during the 3rd Live Letter:

[1:25:35]
Q: Will there be a secondary job for each class? Such as gladiators becoming dark knights, or archers becoming rangers?
A: I spoke to the battle team earlier, and they said they will do it… when they find the time, that is. They’re currently focused on refining the new battle system, which has changed so radically that all classes are essentially new. When that’s finished, they’ll move on to secondary jobs, but I cannot say when that might be.

 

[Mr. Bubble]

He's non-committal to the example I gave above, but it also make a lot of sense, given the history of the Final Fantasy series, etc.

It'd make even more sense if they just got rid of classes and stuck only with jobs. Classes, to me, feel like an archaic 1.0 remnant kept in the game only to appease those who were crazy enough to keep playing pre-ARR.

 

[N.A]

It'd make even more sense if they just got rid of classes and stuck only with jobs. Classes, to me, feel like an archaic 1.0 remnant kept in the game only to appease those who were crazy enough to keep playing pre-ARR.

The class system is designed to be more useful for solo play as it can access skills from any class (have cure/protect/stoneskin on any class etc.). With lots more solo content in ARR and multiple jobs coming eventually I think it makes a lot of sense to keep the current system. (It's also a very cool and rewarding moment to do the job unlocks/quests)

 

[Jarnet87]

Probably would make more sense to just have jobs like 11, would relieve some of the confusion. Sounds like if Yoshida had been on this thing from the start it may have been that way.

 

[Jinko]

I prefer to think of it as having lower expectations. I don't think you understand what I am trying to say, or rather what I thought about the game. It isn't that it is hard to think up a bunch of Jobs that could fit with a Lancer/other weapon classes. It is that from the old job skills/datamined new ones it still seems like, for some jobs at least, that the "job" will still rely on all the already gained "class" skills. Meaning that even if you are a beastmaster with lancer as the base, you would still be doing True > Vorpal > Full > Chaos thrust as your main combo. Only instead of jumping every 2 minutes on cool down, you would charm a mob or something. This isn't to say there isn't something they could think up that would completely change the class through use of the job, but that I have a low expectation of them doing so.

Prove me wrong square, prove me wrong.

Yea from that perspective you have a point, but then they could add very unique skills to the next lancer job that you would use instead of those skills you mention, or have a system where every skill is different once you switch job.

Every time a WoW expansion comes out they shake things up by changing classes, adding new spells, removing old ones etc, there is nothing stopping them doing this.

If anything my expectations are high, Yoshi has yet to let me down.

It'd make even more sense if they just got rid of classes and stuck only with jobs. Classes, to me, feel like an archaic 1.0 remnant kept in the game only to appease those who were crazy enough to keep playing pre-ARR.

If they were going to do this they would have done it before the release of ARR beta, even though I would prefer it also, its not going to happen now.

I suspect classes will be focused on PvP and jobs on PvE.

 

[Tesseract]

man i really wanna play the phase with controller support. can i borrow someone's account? pity me!

 

[Ala Alba]

man i really wanna play the phase with controller support. can i borrow someone's account? pity me!

Phase 2 will have more beta applicants accepted, I believe. Good luck.

 

[Lucis]

I am getting more excited about the aspect of this game.

How old guard argue that grinding mobs for hours in "open world" is better than anything ARR has to offer now still puzzle me.

 

[omlet]

The class system is designed to be more useful for solo play as it can access skills from any class (have cure/protect/stoneskin on any class etc.). With lots more solo content in ARR and multiple jobs coming eventually I think it makes a lot of sense to keep the current system. (It's also a very cool and rewarding moment to do the job unlocks/quests)

To clarify for people who didn't play 1.x and may be curious how it worked:

ANY class could use SOME skills from ANY other class.

A job could use SOME skills from SOME other classes. Job's base class + 2 other classes.

For example, GLD had access to class skills from all classes, so you could set more damage-dealing abilities from lancer and archer and some support skills/spells from conjurer and pugilist for soloing or something. However, the PLD job had access to all GLD class skills and traits, but only had access to certain class skills from CNJ and MRD.

No job or class could equip just any skill from anything else. All job skills were job-exclusive, all class traits were class/job exclusive, and certain class abilities (mostly higher level combo finisher attacks/spells) were only available to that class.

How old guard argue that grinding mobs for hours in "open world" is better than anything ARR has to offer now still puzzle me.

I certainly don't want XI "stand in one spot for hours pulling 1 mob at a time" leveling back. That said, I can't discount the sentiment entierly because <<NDA>>.

 

[Ravidrath]

Yeah, I actually like the class/job split the way it is - use classes more when soloing, use jobs more when partying. I think classes in PvP makes a lot of sense, too.

And I think it'll be even better and more meaningful once the classes can become multiple jobs.

 

[burgerdog]

I am getting more excited about the aspect of this game.

How old guard argue that grinding mobs for hours in "open world" is better than anything ARR has to offer now still puzzle me.

Couldn't those people simply run an instance to satisfy that itch? They're pretty lengthy and it's trash pull after trash pull and they don't even have to compete for mobs with others.

 

[ebil]

Couldn't those people simply run an instance to satisfy that itch? They're pretty lengthy and it's trash pull after trash pull and they don't even have to compete for mobs with others.

When I, amongst others, suggested just that, one of them basically responded: "but it's not the same, I give up".

Spoiler

Same as what? I still don't know.

 

[Jinko]

How old guard argue that grinding mobs for hours in "open world" is better than anything ARR has to offer now still puzzle me.

Was NM's last week, Open world XP parties this week, will be something else next week that Yoshi will shoot down in flames.

/sigh they never learn.

Edit: Forgot about the combat also.

 

[Lucis]

Couldn't those people simply run an instance to satisfy that itch? They're pretty lengthy and it's trash pull after trash pull and they don't even have to compete for mobs with others.

When I, amongst others, suggested just that, one of them basically responded: "but it's not the same, I give up".

Spoiler

Same as what? I still don't know.

Was NM's last week, Open world XP parties this week, will be something else next week that Yoshi will shoot down in flames.

/sigh they never learn.

Edit: Forgot about the combat also.

This is totally a perfect display of vocal minority seems more in force then they actually are.

Damn it's already Wed, lol 2 more days until beta, + life and SC2 came out yesterday, so busy.

 

[omlet]

Couldn't those people simply run an instance to satisfy that itch? They're pretty lengthy and it's trash pull after trash pull and they don't even have to compete for mobs with others.

I can't speak for everyone, but it's not the same at all.

Instances have little to no variation.

Mobile outdoor roam grinding is constantly changing.

That may not seem like a big difference but it's huge.

 

[QisTopTier]

Yeah but real exp parties don't actually explore and roam around. You find the best series of spawns and go back and forth between them. Well if you wanted to do it the right way you do that.

 

[ebil]

I can't speak for everyone, but it's not the same at all.

Instances have little to no variation.

Mobile outdoor roam grinding is constantly changing.

That may not seem like a big difference but it's huge.

Not trying to stir an argument because I'm not fundamentally against the existence of XP parties, but I really fail to see how it is so different (apart from the illusion of choice). XP parties in v1.X were very static and consisted in camping the same diremite/ants/raptor/drakes/Ixali/wolves camps over and over.
The only thing that changed (mildly) from one party to the other was the camp you chose, and from the looks of it, there will be 3 instances for every level range, meaning you may still have a choice.

I'll say it: XP parties were way more entertaining in FF11 than they were in FF14. In my opinion FF14 didn't feel like a journey at all, and beyond your first class the first 49 levels were just in the way of your enjoyment.

 

[omlet]

Yeah but real exp parties don't actually explore and roam around. You find the best series of spawns and go back and forth between them. Well if you wanted to do it the right way you do that.

They could if, say, hunting logs were designed in a way to require lots of kills that would encourage parties to form up and roam around and hunt substantial groups of enemies from area to area.

By "real exp parties" or "the right way" you are referring to XI or 1.x style? I'm not.

 

[IonicSnake]

I'm glad the mindless monster grind for leveling is less focused on.

 

[Jijidasu]

...

In my opinion FF14 didn't feel like a journey at all, and beyond your first class the first 49 levels were just in the way of your enjoyment.

This is exactly how I feel. Back when FFXI launched back 10 years ago? I was so caught up with exploring the then massive world that it took me nearly a year to hit the first cap. The world being so big had you travel to all these obscure places to level and that really hit it in line with the adventure and journey to end game.

Yes, it was satisfying.

But I'm not sure I can do it again, hell, I'm not certain that SE could do it again without having people cry terrorism at them. It's an old system and it's definitely not user friendly - but I was glad to be apart of it.

Time has changed and we're set to play something within comfort until we hit cap and try difficult things again, I'm fine with that. A lot of the OF people are too caught up nostalgia that they don't realise exactly what it is they're asking for.

 

[omlet]

I'm glad the mindless monster grind for leveling is less focused on.

I'm not really trying to be facetious here, but are you saying dungeon leveling isn't largely mindless monster grind?

Not trying to stir an argument because I'm not fundamentally against XP parties, but I really fail to see how it is so different (apart from the illusion of choice). XP parties in v1.X were very static and consisted in camping the same diremite/ants/raptor/drakes/Ixali/wolves camps over and over.
The only thing that changed (mildly) from one party to the other was the camp you chose, and from the looks of it, there will be 3 instances for every level range, meaning you may still have a choice.

I'm not saying outdoor leveling is the holy grail of exp or anything or that 1.x exp parties were somehow mind-blowingly different from leveling in dungeons, but, really, come on. If I'm gonna have to kill hordes monsters I'd rather do it in the less predictable, more exciting scenario, which the outdoor scenario wins by a bit.

On that note, if they randomized dungeon enemies, I'd have nothing to complain about!