Yeah think Im done as well, crafting is a nightmare
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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Yeah think Im done as well, crafting is a nightmare
yaffi
Member
I was only doing leves, but couldn't even finish one.
This thread has gone over the deep end into crazy land.
Really? You really think there's a huge chunk of players saying "Yeah I don't WANT to play my job effectively! I'm gonna go fuck around in DF T9 for an hour and a half doing everything wrong cause that would be AWESOME."
People want to clear content that's required to unlock later stuff? I don't suppose maybe that anyone is just reaching T5 for the first time....no that can't be possible, obviously they have all been playing since 2.0 and are all horrible.
Do you not have an FC willing to help out with stuff like this? What server are you on?
So TIL It was nice of Square to introduce all that extra content to their Binding Coil game but in the end people might have fun doing that stuff and they get distracted from Binding Coil and they might not progress which is sad and depressing.
Really? You really think there's a huge chunk of players saying "Yeah I don't WANT to play my job effectively! I'm gonna go fuck around in DF T9 for an hour and a half doing everything wrong cause that would be AWESOME."
People want to clear content that's required to unlock later stuff? I don't suppose maybe that anyone is just reaching T5 for the first time....no that can't be possible, obviously they have all been playing since 2.0 and are all horrible.
Do you not have an FC willing to help out with stuff like this? What server are you on?
So TIL It was nice of Square to introduce all that extra content to their Binding Coil game but in the end people might have fun doing that stuff and they get distracted from Binding Coil and they might not progress which is sad and depressing.
On top of that, you're about to become a lala soon.So TIL It was nice of Square to introduce all that extra content to their Binding Coil game but in the end people might have fun doing that stuff and they get distracted from Binding Coil and they might not progress which is sad and depressing.
How depressing.
Your soul is as absent as a Mi'qote's ass.
Drama hitting where it hurts.
I thought you were getting to stay hyur if you bought the fancy wedding.
Nope that was a...misunderstanding on my part let's say.
Maybe not so actively "lol I'm just going to be bad" but definitely a ton of people who are just awful at their class with no real desire to improve. Then there are many who don't realize they're playing their class ineffectively (because no in-game way to really know short of "we failed the fight") or are just unable to accept that they're playing poorly (because "everyone else is bad but not me"). The end result is still the same in any case: There's a significantly large number of people who are bad at playing their class.
There's nothing wrong with being "bad" at your class, mind you, as long as there's a willingness to accept that you're not the best and to work on improving. If it's just "lol everyone is bad holding me back", we're getting into some serious Dunning-Kruger territory.
I think the number of bads is way overstated and that most people are open to constructive criticism on how to improve.
Of course a couple of things to keep in mind: 1. I pretty much only play with GAF and never pug more than one spot in a party. 2. I'm a bad, last night Angary put my skill level at sub-potato.
Maybe true but in PUGs at least, a lot of people are just not open to criticism. If you try to help, you get raged at.
Not always true but it does happen Though I see quite a few new players open to criticism and help on improving compared to people at end game or leveling an alt class.
I'm crying
Angaray opened my eyes to how bad I was too
Constructive criticism from a known quantity is a world different from some random in DF trying to tell you how to do your job. People are a lot pricklier with the latter, probably in part because they have no reason to believe you know what you're talking about.
DF T9 a few times. It is educational. Then go back and DF T5 and marvel at how naive and innocent most of the people in there seem--I will say people in T5 lately have seemed more flexible thanT9; more trying to understand what's happening in the older content while people in the latter seem to mostly want to shout strategies they learned from videos at each other without fully understanding why the videos recommend what they do.
That is not completely accurate. I started suggesting they replace you with a potato two nights ago.
I think the number of people who simply cannot improve, is actually quite low. I do however, believe that the number of people who either refuse to improve, do not realize they're playing ineffectively, or whom do not have an effective means of improving, is actually quite high.
I also believe, that when you already know a fight, and just want to clear it, that it can be difficult to be patient with those that still need to work on said fight. Which, can create it's own set of problems.
I also believe, that when you already know a fight, and just want to clear it, that it can be difficult to be patient with those that still need to work on said fight. Which, can create it's own set of problems.
Hm. I'd say a large part of this comes down to what you define as "bad." If it's people that you wonder are even playing then, sure, there's less bad players than people say. Mine, however, is merely people massively underperforming. This is why I keep putting it as "bad" since I don't really mean it as an insult sort of thing, just that they're not doing what they're supposed to. The difference between being "bad' and playing poorly, I suppose.
On average, most the DPS will underperform by a lot (e.g., with echo and i110+, barely 300 DPS?), healers can't pre-cast / use their full kit / find ways to DPS, Tanks don't know a proper cooldown rotation, etc. It's like they're only doing half their job. And I think this applies to GAF, PFs, DFs, etc. fairly evenly; GAF skewed a bit since we have a decent number of active raiders compared to non-raiders compared to the total population but still.
This is why garf Second Coil was what it was :x
There are def people who want to improve and progress. My FC has been steady getting people past T5, t6, t7, and Ramuh this past week. It's nice to so when people don't rage quit and are willing to work through and realize mistakes.
There's always a fine line between carrying people through content and teaching them content. I don't mind helping people through Titan EX, for example, if they know the fight and are legitimately stuck on it. When people are like "I'll take a titan clear plz", that's when I'm a bit more interested in sitting ontop of the choco stables with Angary.
I know it's difficult to have missed the boat on a lot of older content, like First Coil, and trying to muscle your way through with a bunch of people who also missed the boat (The boat in this case being the people who were actively working on clearing it when it was pseudo-relevant). I dunno. It's also hard to speak in generalized terms about bads and stuff, since it really is more of a case by case basis.
For example, of course there are people who want to do better at their class. There are also bards who like to AOE rotation two targets while being in mostly poetics gear. I don't bother trying to offer advice to people I consider "bads" unless they ask for it. Some people are content with the game that they play, and that's fine.
I know it's difficult to have missed the boat on a lot of older content, like First Coil, and trying to muscle your way through with a bunch of people who also missed the boat (The boat in this case being the people who were actively working on clearing it when it was pseudo-relevant). I dunno. It's also hard to speak in generalized terms about bads and stuff, since it really is more of a case by case basis.
For example, of course there are people who want to do better at their class. There are also bards who like to AOE rotation two targets while being in mostly poetics gear. I don't bother trying to offer advice to people I consider "bads" unless they ask for it. Some people are content with the game that they play, and that's fine.
lazybones18
Banned
Square, you magnificent bastards
0/15 on Nepto. Such failures.
Easily the highlight of the stream. I stop being cynical for five seconds and everything is disappointment. You have to respect the thought process that went into it.
Easily the highlight of the stream. I stop being cynical for five seconds and everything is disappointment. You have to respect the thought process that went into it.
Hence that was the answer to "why so many people gave up on Coil".
For the rest, the game is made to be played casually. It's good to pick it up when you have nothing to do due to the lack of long term objective + 6 months gear cycle + everything is handled to you but top-raid gears. Right now I'm not playing and I'll come back when I feel like.
I think the reason is very clear, 1-50 is a cakewalk and even in a lot of endgame content is easy to get carried (HM primals, even Coil at this point)
In order for people to improve the game needs to be hard and challenging.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Almost every other ST I have been in, I see a bard who is throwing in an aoe on single targets. Every now and then I see bards who do the same in 4mans, it's mostly just rain of death though and I can only assume that they think it still reduces dmg or that they just need that extra chance to hit so much, when they're a soldiery gear hero. Other classes I honestly can't say much about since I don't pay attention to them, but the amount of bad bards I've seen who refuse to take advice even when called out multiple times for it, are just amazing.
Never underestimate the amount of bads who play mmos like this and WoW. Maybe you haven't done lfr in WoW before, but once you start giving people actual mechanics to do on top of doing decently well on their class, is when you can tell just how bad they are. In this you can stand in most ST mechanics and be fine, in WoW there are mechanics that can 1-2 shot you if you don't pay attention. No matter how many times people die to said mechanics, they will never learn. Yet when you try and explain to them that they need to dodge said thing or that their dps is far too low for doing more than just auto attacking, they yell at you and tell you to mind your own business and let them play the game how they want.
The amount of outright "bad" people who willingly remain bad, even when told multiple times they need to improve, is the problem. It's the reason why dungeons and CT are so easy in this game. Square knows people will suck and they don't want your progress to be held back by them, so they make 90% of mechanics not even matter in these things and the ones that do, have an extremely obvious tell to them that say "hey maybe you should pay attention to this".
tiggerkiddo
Member
Most people are happy to push buttons and see stuff happen.
The problem is that a lot of people don't have respect for others' time but I have a feeling the game is not exactly blameless for this.
Shouldn't you should be glad they're not trying to bust into Final Coil then? People just need to find the happy medium for them where they're performing adequately for what the game demands. For a lot of people, that performance isn't going to be at the level currently needed for FCoB so it seems appropriate that there's not a ton of widespread interest yet.
I'm not sure how indicative of "Bad players everywhere!" sloppy play on twenty four man farm content is. ST is pretty lenient so its not surprising that people might not be playing 100% in it.
tiggerkiddo
Member
It wouldn't really matter because players like that aren't gonna get far anyway, progression wise.
Pellegri Testament
Member
It still a pretty good sign of how others play even if it only takes half the raid paying attention and doing well. If someone wants to derp in a corner and auto attack then that says nothing about how they play, just that they want to get carried. But when someone is using abilities that really shouldn't be used in that moment, it shows a sign of effort and that they don't know any better when it comes to how they use them, not that they're using them just because they don't want to try.
It is rather bizarre how easy the HM Primals and early Coil have gotten. There's some real wackiness like Stone Vigil normal and Garuda normal being far harder than their actual HM counterparts. Which is just silly and nonsensical.
It'd be like playing a really hard dungeon an RPG, finishing it, and going back there later being told it'll be even harder. Only you find out that it's actually way easier because you're overpowered as all heck now.
Not the first time. Players that get that far into the end game without developing a good support group, often don't know what each Stat does, let alone what stats are good for their class.
Others, just don't care, and throw on whatever materia is cheapest.
Not so much bizarre as inevitable, iLvl alone would have made them significantly easier. Thats just how it goes with old vs new content in MMO's. Ex modes are still a bitch to PUG (Fuck Mog EX) and "gatekeeper" stuff like Tier 5 isnt much better.
As far as pugging EX modes go, I've had pretty good luck with all of them except Titan EX. My first Moggle Mog EX kill was in a PF learning party, and Levi/Garuda/Ifirt are extremely easy to pug as long as you get key spots with competent players.
In the case of the HMs, some of them were just stupidly easy to begin with however. Even at the time of it's release, Stone Vigil HM was already way easier than regular Stone Vigil. Probably because the level (and by extension item level) is synced much more strictly in regular SV.
You're right about the primals tho. Item level increase + no item level sync + echo = holy crap these fights are eeeeasy. D:
I could kinda understand with like secondary stats. Like Spell/Skill Speed vs Determination vs Critical Hit vs Accuracy. The average player doesn't know how these stats are weighted or possibly even what the accuracy cap for their class even is.
On the other hand, if you're throwing parry onto a weapon when you're a casting class? Straight out not caring, right there.
There are several categories of "bad" (or really most, bad being subjective) players:
1) Those that simply cannot react fast enough due to poor connections. These people to be successful often have to practice way more than others to memorize the fight to be able to pre-emptively move. They often don't know what disadvantage they are at until they switch ISP's or try a VPN service, and just think the game requires pre-emptive moving.
2) Those who the "panic is strong in". Whether it's not dodging a mechanic, screwing up your DPS rotation, overhealing / not healing in time, it's all happening because they are panic'ing during a mechanic. These people to be successful have to practice the fight quite a bit for them to feel familiar and the panic to go down, then they become "good" players for that content.
3) Those that are simply unaware. This is the number one category by far. Most of the population doesn't know what their average DPS is, they often don't know ideal rotations, or they don't know the benefit of doing something one way or another. These people need to be shown the error in their ways for them to become successful, which can push them into number 4 depending on personality, but more often then not these people struggle, then are carried, oblivious to what they are doing wrong. They will often blame others for their lack of success because they don't realize.
4) Those that are aware and refuse to change, i.e. the lazy category / cannot take criticism if they were originally in number 3. They understand they struggle somewhere between 1 and 3, and don't bother fixing it. They have an entitled feeling that they shouldn't need to do the extra work to be best to clear content. "My sub-300 DPS is fine enough", "I don't like using that move", "I am slow to react and I just have to spend hours practicing to clear content, that won't change". These people will forever be carried if they go through end content.
1) Those that simply cannot react fast enough due to poor connections. These people to be successful often have to practice way more than others to memorize the fight to be able to pre-emptively move. They often don't know what disadvantage they are at until they switch ISP's or try a VPN service, and just think the game requires pre-emptive moving.
2) Those who the "panic is strong in". Whether it's not dodging a mechanic, screwing up your DPS rotation, overhealing / not healing in time, it's all happening because they are panic'ing during a mechanic. These people to be successful have to practice the fight quite a bit for them to feel familiar and the panic to go down, then they become "good" players for that content.
3) Those that are simply unaware. This is the number one category by far. Most of the population doesn't know what their average DPS is, they often don't know ideal rotations, or they don't know the benefit of doing something one way or another. These people need to be shown the error in their ways for them to become successful, which can push them into number 4 depending on personality, but more often then not these people struggle, then are carried, oblivious to what they are doing wrong. They will often blame others for their lack of success because they don't realize.
4) Those that are aware and refuse to change, i.e. the lazy category / cannot take criticism if they were originally in number 3. They understand they struggle somewhere between 1 and 3, and don't bother fixing it. They have an entitled feeling that they shouldn't need to do the extra work to be best to clear content. "My sub-300 DPS is fine enough", "I don't like using that move", "I am slow to react and I just have to spend hours practicing to clear content, that won't change". These people will forever be carried if they go through end content.
Well, story dungeons serve a different need than end game dungeons. Story dungeons are there primarily to help you level, you play each a handful of times on your way to fifty, for XP, than largely ignore them until your next leveling experience.
End game dungeons are meant to be farmed, over and over again, for months. It wouldn't make sense to make each of these dungeons 45 minutes long, with super powerful mobs that had to be pulled individually regardless of gear or skill.
That'd get tiring fast, considering how often you need to farm these dungeons.
Granted, making them too fast and too simple is a mistake as well, but it's difficult to say where exactly the balance should be.
irfaanator
Banned
I'm tired of trying in coil. I just want to just be carried through coil. I'm gonna end up like drama and fall asleep during it
Please don't. I already dealt with that, I don't wanna do it again D:
NEVER TRY
Endless-Bravado
Member
You already are.
tiggerkiddo
Member
What is a decent number BRD's should shoot for when it comes to skill speed? Mine is a tad low at 341...=X
Pellegri Testament
Member
For Final Coil? 0 or as low as you can possibly get. It's not worth it over other stats and the more you have, the longer you have to sit in tp song.
irfaanator
Banned
you can't stop me
Yea but like angary said, I don't want to try. also 4 more posts till we celebrate
tiggerkiddo
Member
Oh good, I pretty much avoid it like the plague anyways.
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