Support NeoGAF

[Pyros_Eien]

So how do you tanks handle Turn 12 add phase where we have to burn bennus while Phoenix casts Flames of Rebirth? Because I'm tired of having a Bennu chew my face as WHM. I'm not even spamming Medica/Cure 3 either!

They have to flash with all their mana and you need to Shroud at some point and well not overheal, especially the first few ones don't need a whole lot of healing. A cover for the end can be nice too. We had that issues a few times but then it stopped, I think it went away once we went down to 4 bennus cause usually it would happen at like 11-12stacks when we were doing 5, but at 4 it was over by 10 so no threat issue.

 

[LiQuid!]

There's a reason MMOs have evolved, though--forcing people to premade everything from the word go makes it increasingly difficult for new players, especially those starting during a lull period who aren't entering with any sort of preformed social ties. Making things more difficult for people getting their feet under them in the game isn't really a feature, and given that FFXIV seems to intentionally target fans of the single-player franchise the gradual easing into MMO elements is smart.

You have access to the exact same tools to preform groups you think newbies should be using, and in theory you have a solid base of people to pull from to help you form groups. You need DF less than new players do. I am all for people who don't want to have to be exposed to new players never having to be exposed to new players, I just think the burden of effort should be on them.

I'm having a hard time articulating a reply to this. I think you're 100% right that easing new players (especially those transitioning from single player FF games) is smart, but I don't think it's handled well here at all. This game has more mandatory grouping than any modern MMO that I have tried (off the top of my head I have tried Tera and Old Republic and both of those have optional group content interspersed among the main quest progression). But the duty finder makes doing that group content almost a disposable, meaningless thing, and I think that's bad.

A good percentage of the people you meet in DF you can't even make friends with because there's no guarantee they are on the same server as you. This is bad for new players.

Because all of the game's content is accessed thru DF, outside of one large social hub that new players can't even access (Mor Dhona) there's almost no opportunity for a new player to even try to be social in this game.

I disagree that new players need the DF more than 50 players. Running dungeons for the umpteenth time is a good use of DF. Running a main story quest trial full of cutscenes that you otherwise only need to complete once is a poor use of DF.

I guess my problem is more with some of this game's overall design choices. In a perfect world we could have it both ways.

 

[Frumix]

How would having to preform a party ensure new players are learning something? Like, at all? It would just make matchmaking for trivial content harder. The content will still be trivial.
Lack of having to form social ties and lack of skill on behalf of playerbase don't seem to be tied to one another to me.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

They have to flash with all their mana and you need to Shroud at some point and well not overheal, especially the first few ones don't need a whole lot of healing. A cover for the end can be nice too. We had that issues a few times but then it stopped, I think it went away once we went down to 4 bennus cause usually it would happen at like 11-12stacks when we were doing 5, but at 4 it was over by 10 so no threat issue.

Touche. I think sometimes the tanks miss a Bennu and over time it gradually builds up hate until the Bennu decides I have to die. May make a macro to let the tanks know a Bennu needs their tender loving care.

Bennus are evil. This is turning into my Turn 4 personal hell.

 

[Valor]

So how do you tanks handle Turn 12 add phase where we have to burn bennus while Phoenix casts Flames of Rebirth? Because I'm tired of having a Bennu chew my face as WHM. I'm not even spamming Medica/Cure 3 either!

You could be healing at the wrong time. Warrior just needs to drop an Overpower or something on them, or cross class flash for it, or drop Steel Cyclone, basically AOE threat. Paladin just drops Flash and Circle of Scorn as needed. If you see a bennu getting peeled, stop spamming heals or tell someone. Shroud of Saints is your friend.

 

[Kenai]

Touche. I think sometimes the tanks miss a Bennu and over time it gradually builds up hate until the Bennu decides I have to die. May make a macro to let the tanks know a Bennu needs their tender loving care.

Bennus are evil. This is turning into my Turn 4 personal hell.

There is nothing more terrifying then a Bennu running at Saff (our WHM) as I am swapping Purgatory with him.

As a certain NIN in our static put it, then hit like grown men with 2 kids and a mortgage. WHMs aint got time for that.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I need to find my mic so I can trol--alert the tanks that I'm a Bennu snack.

I doubt it's huge overhealing. I pop Medica 2 when the first Flames go out and just pop Medica each time Flames goes out until Medica 2 runs out and then I pop Medica 2 after the next Flames of Rebirth. I do my best to have Shroud available...unless we screwed up something else earlier and I went aoe heals to compensate.

This is gonna be fun once I upgrade from this Diamond Cane...

 

[SmarterUnconscious]

So how do you tanks handle Turn 12 add phase where we have to burn bennus while Phoenix casts Flames of Rebirth? Because I'm tired of having a Bennu chew my face as WHM. I'm not even spamming Medica/Cure 3 either!

Tell your tanks to do at least one full combo on each bennu they have aggro on. I used to use flash but thats still unreliable sometimes if you have 5 bennus. So I found it better to save flash for if you need it and the last few bennus are low on hp.

 

[Frumix]

I need to find my mic so I can trol--alert the tanks that I'm a Bennu snack.

I doubt it's huge overhealing. I pop Medica 2 when the first Flames go out and just pop Medica each time Flames goes out until Medica 2 runs out and then I pop Medica 2 after the next Flames of Rebirth. I do my best to have Shroud available...unless we screwed up something else earlier and I went aoe heals to compensate.

This is gonna be fun once I upgrade from this Diamond Cane...

I think your tanks are messing up. Bennu carry the aggro over between each revival so a timely shroud should solve all of your problems.

 

[WolvenOne]

So how do you tanks handle Turn 12 add phase where we have to burn bennus while Phoenix casts Flames of Rebirth? Because I'm tired of having a Bennu chew my face as WHM. I'm not even spamming Medica/Cure 3 either!

Honestly, I just wait for them all to gather, double Steel Cyclone, and that usually does it. Also I'll tab through the Bennu's occasionally and see if enmity is getting questionable on any of them, and I'm also ready to use Provoke if one does slip through.

 

[TastyOreoFriend]

Anyone got a good raptor skin farming spot? I was doing the Outer La Noscea camp right outside. I'm gonna have to become the king of raptor skin if I want to farm up my own STR and VITs IVs to supplement market board supplies and make money. Melding these i110 accessories is turning into some "adventure". I fear it'll turn into the bane of my existence since I've never had good luck penta melding. At least it'll keep me busy between that and doing a Ragnarok until the expansion.

 

[lazybones18]

Anyone got a good raptor skin farming spot? I was doing Outer La Noscea right outside camp. I'm gonna have to become the king of raptor skin if I want to farm up my own STR and VITs IVs to supplement market board supplies and make money. Melding these i110 accessories is turning into some "adventure". At least it'll keep me busy between that and doing a Ragnarok until the expansion.

outside Wineport in Eastern La Noscea is also a good spot for raptor skin farming

 

[IvorB]

I mean, that's kind of how MMO's worked since the beginning. If you wanted to level up or experience some content for the first time, you had to go out and form your own party. The tools are there now to make that easier than it ever was back in the day. The DF should only exist to make it easier to re-run content. Instead it's there now as a crutch to ensure people can get to 50 with as little resistance as possible. I'm sick of seeing people get to level 50 and have no clue how this game works because they got carried their entire way thru the game. If people were forced to actually socialize and talk to people before entering a dungeon rather than just queuing for the DF and not speaking while it just gets done by people doing it for the zillionth time, they would learn how to play better and become more comfortable with the game long before hitting the level cap.

I like socialising as much as the next guy but I couldn't think of anything worse than having to dig around for party of eight people who want to do whatever content I feel like doing at the time. And I honestly don't think setting up a party-finder, waiting for it to fill and then selecting the instance is some kind of magical social interaction that's going to help players learn new skills. DF is great.

 

[Stuart444]

People are very impatient in XIV, way too much most of the times.

Yup. Some tanks rush off before getting buffs and some dps/healers leave and take the 30m debuff (wut? That wastes even more time when you'd probably be nearly done the instance when it ends) if tanks refuse to do a speed run.

It's especially funny when they run off and don't realize 1. they don't have protect and 2. their healers are quite a bit behind them trying to catch up with them when they die and start shouting "OMG, WORST HEALER EVER!" or some shit like that.

Im down with helping new players. What I hate is those that don't listen to suggestions or get annoyed because you are trying to help them. This happens a lot with new tanks. Barely holding aggro and getting pissed at you for suggestig them to use flash.

Indeed though some people do try to sound condescending about it (ie saying "ya know, flash would be really helpful right about now" or something like that) but I do hate when you try to explain things and they just get all pissy about it (ie a BLM that only uses Fire III/Blizzard III, a DRG that never uses Heavy Thrust, a Tank that doesn't Shield Lob/Tomahawk, etc) when you're honestly trying to help them.

I would think that would be a good way to make level 50's mad at newer players.

Wouldn't be much different than now. Quite a few level 50 players get mad if there is a new player in a dungeon when they wanted to rush through it. Especially if it's a tank because it means the dungeon will probably be slow.

Tough to those level 50s I say. We were ALL new once. Literally every single one of us.

 

[TastyOreoFriend]

Indeed though some people do try to sound condescending about it (ie saying "ya know, flash would be really helpful right about now" or something like that) but I do hate when you try to explain things and they just get all pissy about it (ie a BLM that only uses Fire III/Blizzard III, a DRG that never uses Heavy Thrust, a Tank that doesn't Shield Lob/Tomahawk, etc) when you're honestly trying to help them.

In my experience these people make up a larger group than people are willing to admit honestly. People just love being a passive-aggressive cunt when they think something is going wrong.

 

[UpsideDownAce]

I need to find my mic so I can trol--alert the tanks that I'm a Bennu snack.

I doubt it's huge overhealing. I pop Medica 2 when the first Flames go out and just pop Medica each time Flames goes out until Medica 2 runs out and then I pop Medica 2 after the next Flames of Rebirth. I do my best to have Shroud available...unless we screwed up something else earlier and I went aoe heals to compensate.

This is gonna be fun once I upgrade from this Diamond Cane...

just letting medica 2 tick should be fine for the first like 5 stacks, assuming your sch is throwing out succor

 

[iammeiam]

You all severely underestimate my hatred of Mog EX.

 

[LowParry]

You all severely underestimate my hatred of Mog EX.

It's an easy fight. But it takes just that one person. ONE person to fuck up the kill by killing one moogle and Good King blowing everyone up. I swear we got trolled.

 

[Frumix]

Wearing 115, 380-390 is the ceiling I hit on Shiva EX as DRG.
People say this is fine. Eh. Got 490 on that dummy over 5 minutes!

Ramuh is much more evil and hates melee, on Shiva I only disengage to dodge impacts which is neato. Can't imagine how to do Mog on melee. Don't want to imagine.

 

[Stuart444]

It's an easy fight. But it takes just that one person. ONE person to fuck up the kill by killing one moogle and Good King blowing everyone up.

Indeed. I liked it when I did it but I was with a GAF group that knew the fight. Once I learned about that one you need to stand near when you get marked, I didn't have much issues after that.

With a random group, it's hell I bet.

 

[WolvenOne]

Mog is interesting, but has a lot of possible points of failure that are difficult to recover from.

Honestly, while I'd love Savage Primals, among extreme primals, Shiva, Leviathan, Garuda, and Ifrit feel like they're about the right difficulty level for that sort of content. Basically, just difficult enough that beating them in DF is feasible, not likely but feasible.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

If Mog EX didn't take so long, I would farm it in hopes of getting that whisker.

 

[EriksBlue]

If Mog EX didn't take so long, I would farm it in hopes of getting that whisker.

Its not that long...unless you wipe.

 

[Valor]

Its not that long...unless you wipe.

That's what... she... said?

 

[rubius01]

You all severely underestimate my hatred of Mog EX.

I'm starting to agree with you

 

[iammeiam]

I'm starting to agree with you

So you fools went in?

It's safe to log back in now?

 

[rubius01]

So you fools went in?

It's safe to log back in now?

Its always safe to log in

 

[EriksBlue]

That's what... she... said?

You so nasty.

And yes that is what I said.

 

[scy]

You all severely underestimate my hatred of Mog EX.

You know, if I had refreshed this sooner.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

King Mog Ex is such a badly designed battle.

Is probably the worst Ex by far, is not even that hard just so frustrating...

 

[Zerokku]

So has SE/Yoshi made any mention of what the CT-like raid (if any) will be in Heavensward? Kind of itching to sub again but not having the time/schedule to do regular raiding easily is already making me wary and I haven't heard of anything quite like CT for heavensward only moreso. I want some sort of gear progression but without regular raiding I know my options are quite limited.

 

[Kagari]

So has SE/Yoshi made any mention of what the CT-like raid (if any) will be in Heavensward? Kind of itching to sub again but not having the time/schedule to do regular raiding easily is already making me wary and I haven't heard of anything quite like CT for heavensward only moreso. I want some sort of gear progression but without regular raiding I know my options are quite limited.

Floating Continent.

 

[Haman Karn]

Well we did clear Mog EX eventually. It just took two lockouts. 4 new people got clears tho and I got the clear on my alt.

 

[scy]

and you got a pretty ribbon

 

[tiggerkiddo]

and you got a pretty ribbon

Allegedly

 

[BadRNG]

Same page for more than a 24h period, game truly dead. Time to blow it up SE, fire Yoshida, go for A Realm Reborn Reborn

Spoiler

featuring creative director Motomu Toriyama.

So has SE/Yoshi made any mention of what the CT-like raid (if any) will be in Heavensward? Kind of itching to sub again but not having the time/schedule to do regular raiding easily is already making me wary and I haven't heard of anything quite like CT for heavensward only moreso. I want some sort of gear progression but without regular raiding I know my options are quite limited.

Floating continent like Kagari said. Don't expect it till a few months after though, whenever 3.1 hits most likely. There's also going to be an easy mode version of the new raid Alexander, so it may be much easier for non-static people on that front.

 

[WolvenOne]

First Ifrit Ex clear of the night, always seems to drop a Pony now. And I always roll in the 40s somehow. That, and High Allagan Heavy Coat, they must fall into my pocket before expansion!

PS: it occurred to me tonight, after Monday nobody is ever going to see the Allagan waiting room again. D:

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Final Coil 'farm' parties will be very interesting.

 

[Frumix]

Same page for more than a 24h period, game truly dead. Time to blow it up SE, fire Yoshida, go for A Realm Reborn Reborn

Spoiler

featuring creative director Motomu Toriyama.

Floating continent like Kagari said. Don't expect it till a few months after though, whenever 3.1 hits most likely. There's also going to be an easy mode version of the new raid Alexander, so it may be much easier for non-static people on that front.

They actually confirmed to Famitsu 24-man and 8-man release windows are going to be interleaved just like they are now which might or might not make sense depending on rewards.

 

[daninthemix]

Just made a fool of myself in the first dungeon. Was wondering why everyone else was hanging back waiting for me...turns out I was the tank! (gladiator class). Up to this point, I'd been playing like it was Dragon Age, alternately spamming Riot Blade and Fast Blade (I think its called).

Didn't realise the actual MMO mechanics were pretty complicated for a newcomer. All three other players had more aggro than me, even when I was spamming Flash. The best comment I read was:

"A rogue tank. Don't see that everyday".

 

[iammeiam]

Final Coil 'farm' parties will be very interesting.

Based on tonight T10 farms should be cake.

T11 farms will be a disaster.

As soon as I can convince people to no-chest 12 for science we can see how that goes.

 

[scy]

...

oh god, is that what I'm getting roped into next?

Spoiler

when's title-only T13 runs?

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Finished the crimson mage set from lota within 6 full / partial runs. Goddamn I was lucky.

Damn does it look sweet. It even matches my hair!

 

[EriksBlue]

...

oh god, is that what I'm getting roped into next?

Spoiler

when's title-only T13 runs?

;-;7 RIP

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Will have to convince my static to start earlier so we can farm 10 and 11 a few times. 12 and 13 will have to wait...:/

 

[iammeiam]

...

oh god, is that what I'm getting roped into next?

Spoiler

when's title-only T13 runs?

SCIENCE.

Spoiler

Title AND minion, dude. Don't forget the minion.

 

[Mr. Bubble]

King Mog Ex is such a badly designed battle.

Is probably the worst Ex by far, is not even that hard just so frustrating...

Whenever I have to do it (helping FC mates or otherwise), I force the group to do a three tank setup. It reduces some annoyance in the fight, but otherwise still not very fun.

 

[BadRNG]

They actually confirmed to Famitsu 24-man and 8-man release windows are going to be interleaved just like they are now which might or might not make sense depending on rewards.

Yeah, they did say that, but we know the 8man one will be coming for 3.0 (and that floaty is just beginning development), so it'll likely be 3.1 a few months after expansion.

The interleaving is pretty dumb imo, introducing a tier below the highest tier at any given time. If anything you'd think they would go the other way around. I guess either way you will end up with a 6month period of no content for whatever tier you prefer...

As soon as I can convince people to no-chest 12 for science we can see how that goes.

Just to see if you can beat it or what, I am confused.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Which is tougher to learn, 9 or 13? I realize it's gonna suck regardless since I'm WHM but I'm just curious.

 

[Frumix]

Which is tougher to learn, 9 or 13? I realize it's gonna suck regardless since I'm WHM but I'm just curious.

This question is difficult to answer because by the time most people step into 9 they're much less raid-prepared than when they step into 13, what's with 9 being pre-requisite for that and all. I wanna say 13 is a lot more predictable than 9, like how in 9 the entire first phase is preset and all of your responses to it are gonna be too, in 13 most of the fight is like that but it's also longer and has less room for error, so timings need to be a bit more precise? I started autopiloting 13 a lot earlier than 9.

I guess the most important part unless you're one of those Tabris-likes is to research how other WHMs respond to each mechanic before going in.