spazchicken
Member
lol Very true. I'm at least glad they didn't keep their promise on that part of the title.
Final Fantasy XV Demo Previews/Impressions Thread
- Thread starter DarkLordMalik
- Start date
Ah, good times. XIII had so much potential.
Cloud had an actual phone in Advent Children if you recall.
Stone Ocean
Member
Photomooooode
I remember wanting to buy this phone back in the days. I would have bought it if I was living in Japan.
Ah, I see. I think the Astral Shard in the Duscae area could be
Titan
"Now they were truly lost in the landscape: broken down by the side of the road with the Disc well out of walking distance. The Archaean, Titan, would have to wait. He'd been dormant for ages anyway. The first order of business was getting back on four wheels."
Yep.
And I'm thinking the same thing. I'm just saying that those who are worried about product placement may be in for a rude awakening.
I'm hoping there's none for the phone, though, since that's something you'll most likely be using in the game. It goes beyond being just an easter egg at that point.
brandonh83
Banned
They used the Leona Lewis song as a marketing gimmick. Did you miss that ridiculous video where they had Leona Lewis playing the game and pretending like she gave one fuck about it? It may not be "product placement" in the traditional sense, but it was certainly there for marketing appeal, and to me that's the same thing.
And I'm not saying that videogames can't use existing songs. That has zilch to do with this.
brandonh83
Banned
Well, Final Fantasy XV should be out sometime next year.
No, I get what you're saying, and for what it's worth I totally agree that it was a gaffe.
'wat' stems from the fact that My Hands doesn't actually exist within the FFXIII universe, so it's a completely different issue from what you're discussing w.r.t Coleman in FFXV.
A more apt example would be if a piece of pop music played as a piece of diagetic music. Something that originates within the game world. Of course, this is my hardcore nerdery musicologist side speaking, but it's one of my pet peeves when people cannot differentiate between an underscore and diagetic music. Underscore music, for all intents and purposes, does not exist within the fictional universe, nor is it heard/acknowledged by characters within the fictional universe.
It would be the difference between Coleman products being a physical and perceptible and interact-able thing (by the fictional characters), v.s. Coleman being featured on the UI layer, (for whatever bizarre hypothetical reason. Yes I know it's a horrid example) with the cast being totally unaware of its existence.
xion4360
Member
people actually give a shit about the camping gear being a real name brand? I couldnt give a single F if the gas station was a texaco. In fact, it might even make me laugh a little, and the outfits were designed by a brand designer modeled after nomura's designs. The whole real world mixed with fantasy world element is something very attractive to me.
Actually that would make sense for the Lucis family to support Coleman. Royal families a lot of times have brands who get the Royal stamp of approval. Britain is filled with them producing everything from leather gloves to shoes approved by the queen. So Noctis and his Cadillac makes sense.
One thing I do like about this whole Roen & Coleman tie-in is that you can see how well designed these products are. I may not like Roen but it stands leaps and bounds from average videogame character outfits. Aya Brea puffer and jeans aren't anywhere near as aesthetically interesting when compared to a look from an actual fashion designer. I know a lot of folks prefer the "old" FFVersusXIII designs but they really lack a visual identity besides Noctis' all leather short sleeve zip coat.
I definitely there's 5-7 of these promos in the game. They're not gonna have Roen in Coleman in there mixed in with a bunch of fake signage when you're in cities.
Those are ad spaces, baby! ($_$)/
Zoe
Member
It was absolutely product placement. If they just wanted to have a song that the English audience could understand, they would have made an English version of the Japanese song as they had in previous games.
brandonh83
Banned
I never said that My Hands exists within the FFXIII universe. It's a song. Music written for videogames or films is an outside element, separate from the actual universe, that thematically accompanies elements from the universe. This has nothing to do with music existing in a universe. My problem, again, with My Hands is that they used a pre-existing song not written for the game to accompany an ending in a series that is known for having original themes and compositions. It completely goes against the nature of Final Fantasy.
Likewise, Coleman appearing in FFXV suggests that a real world company on our planet is, for some fucking reason, a company in the FFXV universe, which is not our own. These things should be original. That's all I'm arguing here. The Wrecking Ball joke I made was made in light of the fact that this series used to be classy. You can market shit without being so transparent and shameless. Pack Noctis toys in Happy Meals for all I fucking care, but don't put McDonald's in the damn game.
Death Penalty
Member
Oh, this is all news to me.
Archaean, huh? I like that a lot better than Eidolon. Though I think Duscae's astral shard is Shiva, what with the ice. Titan is supposedly linked to that newly revealed city.
Yeah, honestly, in retrospect I think his ideas were way too overambitious, especially for the hardware back then. Who knows, it could be that he struggled with handling the high expectations and pressure of making a mainline FF and wanted too much for his first own FF, not knowing when to stop adding new crazy ideas. Maybe Tabata cleaning up and streamlining was a good thing after all. We'll never know, though, of course, and I might be wrong.
---
Regarding the real-world alphabet being used, have you seen my post from before?^^
The difference is that one's existence technically needs an in-game canon explanation, and the other doesn't.
If you can't see this difference, you're completely missing my point.
Yeah, you could be right, but then I wonder what the party's business is with
Titan
I know that Nomura said it's going to be a lot simpler, yes, but still, who knows what Nojima did.Yep.
brandonh83
Banned
Again, and I'm going to leave it at this: the reason that it's done this way is because we understand our own languages. That has always been the case for everything. Would you honestly expect, each time they make a Final Fantasy game, for them to create several different languages and expect the player to go along with it? Sure, we used to read games before the advent of voice acting, but should there have been a foreign language on screen and English subtitles?
It's done for convenience, and has nothing to do with the Coleman "issue." Obviously nobody has a problem with characters in another universe speaking the English or whatever language. It's reasonable to do so and outlandish to expect writers to have to come up with new languages every time they feel like telling a story.
I don't even really know what we're arguing about anymore. Of course music doesn't need an in-game explanation. John Williams' Star Wars theme isn't explained in the story. I don't know what you're getting any of this from. My complaint about My Hands is that it's a pre-existing song chosen for the simple matter of trying to spread market appeal and simultaneously disregards the staple idea of these games having their own original soundtracks.
Yes, going by that poster's description.
QuiteWhittle
Member
I didn't mean to imply I was using the languages in which we interpret FFXV as examples. I was trying to bring up that English and Japanese look to be the natural languages of the FFXV world. X, XII, and XIII all have fictional in-game script, languages, and linguistics different from what we hear and see in the menus and UI while FFXV looks to borrow heavily from real-world communication all around, presumably to invoke "fantasy based on reality". Which brings me back to my original point, if I can accept that the natural languages of FFXV convergently evolved to match our own, I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume the same for Coleman.
Of course I just found out the older FFs liberally used English and Japanese so that undermines everything I wrote quite a bit.
Exactly. This isn't Zelda which has Hylian text and that's within the game's canon.
In many FF games, the game's canon literally has English and Japanese text and everything else that you listed.
I think it's theoretically the same issue, though, but it doesn't feel immersion-breaking to you because you're just used to it and out of convience, yes. In the end it's also a real-world element in a fantasy world. You could say, well, having Coleman stuff in the game let's us understand better what those things are and represent
(okay, maybe that's a bit far-fetched now, haha)
Ah, whatever. Let's end it here, yeah
brandonh83
Banned
This is like saying that every single character in every form of fiction is fluent in every single language that the product is released in.
Stone Ocean
Member
Well he is a prince
He's saying that neither Sugawara or Lewis are singing the ending theme in the game world. It's pretty simple.
It's not canon.
brandonh83
Banned
No... shit?
Falk was just saying that Coleman exists in the game world, whereas the music doesn't. That's the difference.
I was just responding to you because you said you don't know where he's getting that information from.
If you want a Star Wars analogy, it would be the difference between My Hands playing when Luke and Han Solo get medals stamped on their foreheads at the end of Episode IV vs My Hands playing in the cantina scene (e.g. ACTUALLY BEING PLAYED BY THE BAND IN THE CANTINA) While both would be hilariously awkward and out of place, the cantina example goes the further mile of requiring a canon explanation as to why a bunch of aliens know My Hands.
But you're either incapable of getting the point, or refuse to get the point, and no one wants to read 3 pages of us arguing about diagetic vs underscore music, so let's just leave it at that.
But you're either incapable of getting the point, or refuse to get the point, and no one wants to read 3 pages of us arguing about diagetic vs underscore music, so let's just leave it at that.
TetraGenesis
Member
I didn't think diagetic v. non-diagetic was that difficult a concept.
But Lucis in the game is literally in English and Japanese that there are signs everywhere just for the sake of it in both English and Japanese.
It's not there for us to "understand". It's there because English and Japanese are part of the game's world, just how it is in Tokyo.
There's a reason why Duscae uses a bastardized version of the English text, and Lucis doesn't.
brandonh83
Banned
And I'm arguing that Coleman's existence in the game world is idiotic because the game world is a fictional universe whereas Coleman is not a fictional corporation. That's why some of us are irked by it. Again I don't give a shit if someone disagrees, that's fine, if it doesn't bother you that's great. I envy that.
As for the music, I don't even know what the fuck anymore. Of course music doesn't exist within the world of the game, other than cases like the opera in Final Fantasy VI for example. Music is written to accompany the story, characters, themes, and situations. My argument was that My Hands was chosen because Leona Lewis was popular at the time, not because they thought it was thematically relevant to Final Fantasy XIII's ending. It was a marketing choice, purely, that in my opinion goes against franchise staples.
brandonh83
Banned
And that's it and the only thing I've been trying to say.
I get that. Yes, it's convenient, but nothing new. I just think there's a massive difference between a game universe sharing languages from our own world, and believing that a real life company that makes outdoors products also exists in the same world. The latter is far, far more ridiculous to me. Languages are one thing, but that? It just doesn't ring true to me.
I thought product marketing and product placement was different?
SE is paying Leona Lewis to do the music to use her popularity to advertise the game
Coleman is paying SE to put their logo and product in the game to use FFXV's popularity to advertise their products.
Am I understanding something wrong?
SE is paying Leona Lewis to do the music to use her popularity to advertise the game
Coleman is paying SE to put their logo and product in the game to use FFXV's popularity to advertise their products.
Am I understanding something wrong?
I'm with Falk on this one. Not sure how else to explain it.
I'm being nit-picky here, I know but it was not product placement. The commercial gave credit to the artist/music used, which is pretty common nowdays. If anything it was a cooperation.
A product placement would be this:
How are people not taking issue with Playstation / Xbox logos at the end of trailers. It's blatant product placement, right?
I'm being nit-picky here, I know but it was not product placement. The commercial gave credit to the artist/music used, which is pretty common nowdays. If anything it was a cooperation.
A product placement would be this:
How are people not taking issue with Playstation / Xbox logos at the end of trailers. It's blatant product placement, right?
The Last One
Member
I never heard of this Coleman brand before anyway lol
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Not sure why people here are purposely avoiding this point.
I mean, wasn't that odd marketing stunt obvious enough?
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
To do the music? The song already made, but just used in the game.
Stone Ocean
Member
There's a lot of money to be made from the outdoors demographic
brandonh83
Banned
My Hands was a song that was made without any relationship with the game. S-E didn't pay Leona to do the music because she already did it. They paid to use her music in the game to market it. It would have been like using My Heart Will Go On in Final Fantasy IX's ending because Titanic was popular. The song wasn't written for the game, it was cherry-picked to market the game. The reason people were upset with this is because Final Fantasy is known for having its own memorable themes that shape the story, themes, and characters.
No I mean SE paying her to sing the much for the game.
That but more likely Final Fantasy fans are going to grab Coleman if they end up on a family outdoors trip.