SoraanTribal
Member
I will give you partial credit on that because I agree it was harder than other FFs but still not that challenging to me personally. Just a couple bosses were harder than the rest. But as a whole, the series has always been easy.
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Final Fantasy XV |OT| There and back again.
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I will give you partial credit on that because I agree it was harder than other FFs but still not that challenging to me personally. Just a couple bosses were harder than the rest. But as a whole, the series has always been easy.
You're joking surely...
Imp the Dimp
Member
Hm I'm not sure if FFXV is easier than the previous games and I've played all single-player FFs 5-12. The optional content was surely the point where the games turned into rather challenging games. I got through some FFs at a pretty young age. I think I have to agree with that other poster. They've all been rather unchallenging unless I recall incorrectly.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Every Final Fantasy ever made is not challenging for 40-50 hours? No I'm not joking.
Granted I haven't actually played the first 3, but:
I ran away from every random battle in FF4 and got to the final dungeon without issue.
FF5's job system is ridiculously exploitable.
FF6 also ran away and clicked attack and heal for everything except a few bosses.
FF7 Materia breaks the combat
FF8 Junctioning breaks the combat
FF9 Click attack then wait awhile until they attack and then you win
FF10 Summons
FF11...this one is actually hard
FF12 Set your gambits up properly and intervene a few times a fight
FF13 Set your Paradigms up properly, but there are a few tough fights
FF14 easy except for fights that require team jumprope
Granted in every Final Fantasy you can also outlevel the main story (except 8 and 13 I think?) so that's part of why they are so easy.
Apologies if I sounded condescending but seriously, Final Fantasy is a mainstream JRPG series and its difficulty level functions accordingly.
I legitimately love this game. Two days after completion and it's all sunk in.
Second best FF of all time (7 is top).
GoTY by miles.
And this is all despite its flaws. Had the story not been so disjointed and the latter chapters more even, this might even be GOAT.
Darkstorne
Member
I think that's a perfect summary, for the open world section at least.
I honestly believe that had this game followed through and delivered that open world freedom on all continents, then it would be receiving a lot more love, and most importantly would truly capture that old-school FF feeling of traversing a world map with modern visuals. Lucis's continent achieves that perfectly, but after that... and I'll spoiler this since it touches on plot points:
Everything feels like they WANTED to create an open world. Sailing from the cape all the way to Altissia without a loading screen was incredible, and showed what this engine was really capable of. There was nothing holding them back from fleshing out all continents in one giant map except for time restraints. The fact that Altissia itself is so gorgeously detailed and massive, but you spend a hot ten minutes there before never returning... holy crap. I almost wish Tabata was given another two/three years to work on this title. He clearly wanted it to be a city hub like Lestallum was. Then there's Tenebrae. Poor, poor Tenebrae. I was so excited about visiting that place - the architecture, the forests, the mountains. Instead you literally arrive, talk to ONE NPC, and then it's off to the next location. I mean... holy crap. Right up until Chapter 14 it feels like there were two thirds of this game left to create, no time left to create it, so the team was forced to create some amazing set pieces and passable cut scenes, and just throw it all together and hope no-one noticed the lack of decent gameplay and exporable locations. Although I have no idea what went on with Chapter 13's design. That one section of the game alone will put me off ever replaying this thing.
Finally there's the NPCs. What happened with Cor? Suddenly Ravus is a good guy? When did that happen? I'm just told in passing during one of the many train sections. But don't think about it too much. Just go run up and down the train a few more times and make do with looking out the windows. That's all the exploration you'll be doing for a while. And Shiva is also dead by the way. That happened. Did you miss it? Bummer. But she's not dead after all! She's actually Luna's companion all this time! And I was convinced Ardyn was Bahamut all along, and the reason he'd been helping you and not killing you, and making sure you grew to appreciate your friends in Chapter 13 by having you cope without them, forcing you to accept the power and responsibility of the ring, then having your friends rescue you just in time, was because this was his trial all along, just like each Astral had their own trial Noct needed to complete before they could trust him with their power. Then we'd defeat the real antagonist together and get an awesome plot twist about who it is. But nope, he's the bad guy, and he really does hate Noct and want him dead, he's just... not killing him. He's deliberately making Noct strong enough to be able to defeat him, feeding him the strength of Astrals and Kings, because reasons. He's actually a dude who saved the world from demons during a war thousands of years ago. But the Astrals were there for that too, so why the hell isn't Shiva pointing it out at least? "THAT ARDYN DUDE IS BAD NEWS, YOU GUYS." But nope, we just have to ignore that minor plot hole...
Finally there's the NPCs. What happened with Cor? Suddenly Ravus is a good guy? When did that happen? I'm just told in passing during one of the many train sections. But don't think about it too much. Just go run up and down the train a few more times and make do with looking out the windows. That's all the exploration you'll be doing for a while. And Shiva is also dead by the way. That happened. Did you miss it? Bummer. But she's not dead after all! She's actually Luna's companion all this time! And I was convinced Ardyn was Bahamut all along, and the reason he'd been helping you and not killing you, and making sure you grew to appreciate your friends in Chapter 13 by having you cope without them, forcing you to accept the power and responsibility of the ring, then having your friends rescue you just in time, was because this was his trial all along, just like each Astral had their own trial Noct needed to complete before they could trust him with their power. Then we'd defeat the real antagonist together and get an awesome plot twist about who it is. But nope, he's the bad guy, and he really does hate Noct and want him dead, he's just... not killing him. He's deliberately making Noct strong enough to be able to defeat him, feeding him the strength of Astrals and Kings, because reasons. He's actually a dude who saved the world from demons during a war thousands of years ago. But the Astrals were there for that too, so why the hell isn't Shiva pointing it out at least? "THAT ARDYN DUDE IS BAD NEWS, YOU GUYS." But nope, we just have to ignore that minor plot hole...
Basically I think this game is possibly the worst in the entire series for the final two thirds, but possibly the best for the first third. Garbage story, literally unfinished content (they only finished the first third, then slapped the final two thirds together with what they had and called it a day), and awful supporting NPCs. The good parts of the game are the main cast, the combat system (compared to XIII's at least), and the open world that they managed to create. It's like they focused so hard on trying to address the complaints XIII received that they forgot about everything else. Really infuriating, and such a wasted opportunity given how amazing the first third of the game was.
There's also the issue of how do you measure challenge.
To use Bloodborne as an example, I didn't die once against Shadow of Yharnam, got it on my first try on my first blind playthrough.
I wouldn't say that either that boss or the game aren't challenging, or easy. It was one hell of a fight.
I do think Bloodborne is easier than Dark Souls (before the DLC, of course), but not easy.
In FFXV, I see a lot of people saying they didn't get a Game Over screen, but, at least to me, that doesn't tell enough. What were you doing in order to prevent it? If I have to use healing items and maybe even a Phoenix Down, to me, that is already evidence of a challenge.
For something to not be challenging, I need to do it without thinking or worrying about anything at all.
Even some Magitek Soldier drops I have to handle with caution in this game, just shutting off my brain and holding O will lead to my death at the moment, but I can still take them down without using any healing items. I wouldn't call that a super easy fight, but it's also not very hard.
I think the only potions I've used so far were for those random mini-quests with hunters asking for help, and in the level 20 training with Gladio and Ignis. That was tough as FUCK. Had to cheese with potions.
To use Bloodborne as an example, I didn't die once against Shadow of Yharnam, got it on my first try on my first blind playthrough.
I wouldn't say that either that boss or the game aren't challenging, or easy. It was one hell of a fight.
I do think Bloodborne is easier than Dark Souls (before the DLC, of course), but not easy.
In FFXV, I see a lot of people saying they didn't get a Game Over screen, but, at least to me, that doesn't tell enough. What were you doing in order to prevent it? If I have to use healing items and maybe even a Phoenix Down, to me, that is already evidence of a challenge.
For something to not be challenging, I need to do it without thinking or worrying about anything at all.
Even some Magitek Soldier drops I have to handle with caution in this game, just shutting off my brain and holding O will lead to my death at the moment, but I can still take them down without using any healing items. I wouldn't call that a super easy fight, but it's also not very hard.
I think the only potions I've used so far were for those random mini-quests with hunters asking for help, and in the level 20 training with Gladio and Ignis. That was tough as FUCK. Had to cheese with potions.
Prior FF's did have main story fights and boss encounters that required you to set up your party, choose gear, think about weaknesses and prepare for status effects. Strategy was involved, it wasn't just "press X to win" like some people like to snarkily comment. Pressing X to win would mean you're selecting the basic attack command which will lead to a quick game over in most FF's.
FFXV has no such strategic main story fights - they're all QTE setpieces or bosses that are health sponges that you hold O for, sometimes having some parry cutscenes that look cool. The game definitely does not want you to get a game over for the main storyline. There is no fail state.
All fights where your gear, weapons, and items do matter are relegated to optional sidequests/dungeons.
FFXV has no such strategic main story fights - they're all QTE setpieces or bosses that are health sponges that you hold O for, sometimes having some parry cutscenes that look cool. The game definitely does not want you to get a game over for the main storyline. There is no fail state.
All fights where your gear, weapons, and items do matter are relegated to optional sidequests/dungeons.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
I've played all and III is by far the hardest, remake and the original game.
It's doable but it's still hard.
X had cheap and difficult bosses if you go in the game blindly.
I think I'm gonna stop up and do a lot of side quests now. I just started Chapter 4, but I wanna level up, because I can't take on these lvl 30 daemons popping up at night, and some other monsters like the snake at the river.
Also I find it almost impossible to get a Game Over screen on Normal difficulty. I haven't died yet, even when my maximum bar went to zero, I just got a message telling me to do something about it, and then I used a phoenix down and got back up.
Also I find it almost impossible to get a Game Over screen on Normal difficulty. I haven't died yet, even when my maximum bar went to zero, I just got a message telling me to do something about it, and then I used a phoenix down and got back up.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Ehhhhh you can't just say 'materia break the combat' 'junctioning breaks the combat' or 'summons' because you actually have to either read a guide or figure out the systems. Also Summons won't help you beat everything in FFX's story anyway, or well... Most of those examples. Materia can break any FF7 battle sure but that's not representative of the way a normal person would play the game without reading a guide or something in that way. I would say FF games generally provide some challenge at least in boss fights, certainly FF7,8,9,10,13 will be challenging for a player without a walk through. In fact the PS1 games were designed to be challenging so people would buy guides.
I don't buy it. The games generally provided some level of challenge for the average player and I would say they were known for it. That level of challenge isn't on display here in my opinion. Honestly I'm fighting end game battles exactly the same as battles from the beginning of the game and nothings changed. I'd much prefer to be trying to sort out a materia system or something even if I was overpowered in the end. There's a challenge to making yourself overpowered which isn't present here
Yu Narukami
Member
Quoting myself because I do not want to waste my precious gaming time.
Talk to Umbra at a rest location.
You think so?
Ravus at the end of 13 and the Behemoth King
I think, however, that the difficulty curve is undermined by having infinite item mulligans with no discernible opportunity cost.
Get hit? Quaff a Hi Elixir. Boss a little too high level and you're denting it while it 1shots you? Quaff more Hi Elxirs.
Unlike ATB systems where you'd give up a turn for items, there's virtually no cooldown so it boils down to how deep your pockets are.
Unless you're still running out of full 99 stacks of everything. Then there's a problem.
You get the option to call Umbra at any rest place. He can make you go back to Altissia or Lucis.
Talk to Umbra before the final boss.
But that's pretty much the norm with challenge, imo. When you learn the intricacies of the combat system, it gets much easier.
Try going through Bloodborne using a Saw Cleaver, a weapon buff, transformation attacks and Beast Blood Pellets. It's a joke.
Bloodborne DLC Spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AQY_9ZK7xM
Who in their right mind would deny that this is a challenging boss, though? It's hard as shit.
At any lodgings with a bed (inn, shack, etc...)*
Hispanic! At the Disco
Member
Has anyone here completed the Rainbow Frogs quest without a guide? I saw what the quest entailed and instantly searched for a guide. F that.
I think that'd make it nearly impossible, as your party members are dickheads with no real AI options. Give me some FFXII or Dragon Age Origins controls and I'd be with you.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I did, almost throw off my pad at the screen, but I did.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
No, the average player is no going to find Bloodborne 'a joke' even with that combo, haha. That's taking it too far. Anyway I'm hardly trying to say this should be like Bloodborne. I'm saying it should have some challenge and that Final Fantasy games generally provided a challenge of some sort. Yes, sometimes that challenge was figuring out how to exploit the systems of the games. This game hasn't provided me with any sort of challenge, I don't expect Bloodborne, I don't want Bloodborne but some variety or strategy would be nice.
Why would you need a guide for Materia? Why would a normal person not equip Materia? Junctioning is a bit more complicated sure but we are talking about whether fights provided challenge. Maybe if I skipped Junctioning altogether the fights would be challenging. That's almost what I did in FFX, btw, since I used everyone's starting weapon and never bothered with the upgrade/augment system. I'm supposed to believe a game I can beat with start weapons is challenging? Nah.
I'm also saying all this as an elixir/Megalixir hoarder; if I actually used potent curative items (like I have to in FFXV, btw) then the games would be even easier than I found them before. The optional endgame content is when FF games became difficult. They aren't known for their difficulty during the story portion (games like Nocturne are).
I kind of wish this game had a damage meter, just so I could see how hard I'm carrying my bros.
Seriously guys, just go in there and gets some hits in. I'll Potion you when you inevitably get hit.
Hispanic! At the Disco
Member
How long did it take? Did you search areas with no frog and leave thinking there may have been one there and youre just missing it? Did you return to any areas to double check? I'm pretty sure without a guide its one of the worst sidequests ive ever seen.
DarkLordMalik
Member
Here is the dreaded Level 52 Samurai Hunt. I didn't face any camera issue thankfully.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54iyyi_final-fantasy-xv-lv-52-samurai-hunt_videogames
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54iyyi_final-fantasy-xv-lv-52-samurai-hunt_videogames
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Just equipping materia doesn't break the game though, I thought you were talking about breaking the game with specific combinations. I think you're exaggerating what I mean by challenge, I'm not saying they were SMT games but they aren't mindless and without strategy either
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I like that the game is easy and easy to over level. But I play most wrpgs on easy and skip a lot of JRPGs due to not wanting to grind or learn more complex systems. *shrugs*.
RPGs are about the exploration, questions, story/lore and characters for me. I just love vegging out and getting lost in epic settings.
RPGs are about the exploration, questions, story/lore and characters for me. I just love vegging out and getting lost in epic settings.
They are releasing a remake/sequel for mobile this month too. We should be getting an update on that soon.
I don't think this combat needs robust AI options, it just needs a button you can press/hold to make everyone defend/dodge. I think Ni No Kuni has something similar. It's frustrating when you block/parry something perfectly but Ignis gets OHKOd.
I didn't use magic at all in FF7 except Cure. I physical attacked my way through the whole game (plus Summons). I would actually say in my mind being about to use normal Attack through 95% of encounters kind of defined the critical path of Final Fantasies for me. Now one criticism that I do think holds weight is that FFXV doesn't really let you die during story bosses.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
I picked the egg in the Cup Noodles quest and went on a long, lengthy journey through the Rock of Ravatogh. It was perilous, gripping, and had me at the edge of my seat without fail. When I finally made it to the summit, got the egg, and found the hidden royal tomb, I felt an unbelievable sense of catharsis and accomplishment.
Immediately after, I begin the next Vyv quest, and he wants me to go all the way back up there again. The end of the cup noodles quest requires you to camp somewhere and I'd already left the Rock, so using the fast-travel to return to the summit's camp spot wasn't an option.
Fuck me.
Immediately after, I begin the next Vyv quest, and he wants me to go all the way back up there again. The end of the cup noodles quest requires you to camp somewhere and I'd already left the Rock, so using the fast-travel to return to the summit's camp spot wasn't an option.
Fuck me.
Sure, dying is hard, but getting by without having to constantly use potions or playing extremely defensively isn't easy either. Just holding O and doing warp-strikes won't win you any battles without heavy potion usage. You do have to know how enemies act if you don't want to constantly be in low health. When to attack and when to back away, what weapons & moves are good against some enemies, what to avoid since they leave you open for attacks etc.
And no one forces you to use that particular accessory. If you want auto-dodge, that's a choice over other perks.
Maybe the DLC campaigns improve on it, but there were only a few enemies who actually required you to read the bestiary in Witcher 3 and even then they were mostly just some "use spell X to make enemy temporarily vulnerable and THEN hack away like always", similar stuff is in FFXV too (i.e. use fire or ice on particular enemy to make them easier to hit)
And maybe you're some kind of special player but I could hardly win anything by just "holding O and activating bros skills", at least if I didn't want to constantly be using potions & elixirs to heal my character since enemies are very aggressive, strong & active in this game. Maybe that's possible once you've leveled up the characters enough, but I finished the game with lvl 40 Noctis (& 33-35 others), so just holding O and using bro skills were definitely not adequate enough tactics to get past most of the game past chapter 9.
FFXV's arsenal of vastly different kinds of weapons, party attacks, directional input attacks, aerial combat etc. certainly make FFXV's combat system the more varied one than Witcher 3's simplistic combat. Dying is hard. So? That's more due to the forgiving nature of its death-system than combat system itself being barely passable. If you decide not to even try to get more out of the combat system than "hold circle, use party moves", that's kind of your choice. Maybe it's partly the game's fault for not really requiring more out of you, but there IS some depth there that you are missing with that kind of playing, so part of it is on you too.
And how many times would you have died in FFXV if not for its extremely forgiving death/KO system? A pretty horrible way of measuring quality. As I said, FFs are made for the mass market and they are built in a way that anyone should be able to get through them, doesn't mean there isn't any depth to their & FFXV's systems. FFXV doesn't require you to get super deep into its combat system to get by in the game (especially since the KO system is so forgiving and basic Potions are so strong & cheap so you can just Potion-brute-force your way through harder battles/battles you're underleveled for), but you CAN delve deeper into its combat system and get a more fun, satisfying experience out of it that way. If you could get by JUST holding O and never ever doing anything else as you claim, more power to you, but there's a more fun way to play the game that you missed.
Battle system in this game is great. I've been having a blast just going back to Lucis and doing the side quests. The one for getting the aerial conversion for the Regalia was great.
Camera needs some work, but otherwise it's just a blast playing this game.
I tried it about 10 levels too low without any camp boosts or magic available and got stomped on by the bosses! Didn't even bother trying to drag it out, first Game Over I've had so far.
Raven117
Member
Ha...strange world we live in.
HAHAHAHA.
I guess I shouldn't choose egg when I get to this quest, then.
Sounds kinda like FFXIII, that you can just auto-battle if you don't care about being fast and efficient, but if you do, then the system really shines.
I personally considered every 4 stars ranking a complete failure.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Older ff's have some mad nostalgia going for them. I'm pretty new to the series played 8 5 years ago and than found my way to 9,10,12,14 and 13. Than 7 last year. I didn't summon throughout the entire story of 7, only hard fights in 10 to me were Seymour encounters. 9 while slow as hell wasn't hard either, fuck 12, 13 was hard for like 2 hours once u figure it out it's smooth sailing. 14..now that's pretty damn hard. 15 isn't that hard in the main story either just like the rest of the ff's. Wanna know what they all got in common after that main story if you don't know what you're doing you're screwed. Every ff postgame is where the strategy comes into play certainly isn't exclusive to 15
Rock of Ravatogh has a secret tomb? O fuck me... I just left after beating
Rock of Ravatogh has a secret tomb? O fuck me... I just left after beating
the Zu
Except for some older entries like FFIII and IV, they sure are, specially if you do sidequests in the way. Maybe not as easy as FFXV (still at the beginning) but they're not challenging games. I beat Sephiroth in 2 turns last time I finished FFVII, FFX throws 2 hard bosses at you during the entire game and becomes stupidly easy when you do some sidequests in the end game, FFVI and FFVIII are extremely exploitable with easy tricks.
Now, if the side content in FFXV is easy, that's a whole new issue.
Because it limited how much you could upgrade your character until the post game.
Now I'm sad I picked the meat.
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