That mission is garbage. the AI for the guy won't keep moving unless you
warp ahead a bit. I basically just kept warping and warp killing ahead of him.
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Final Fantasy XV |OT2| For Jared!
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
That mission is garbage. the AI for the guy won't keep moving unless you
mcz117chief
Member
I have seen plenty but none as exciting or well done as this one. I can't even think of one that comes close to this one in regards to animation quality and action scenes. Like, The Spirits Within was also excellent for it's time but the action scenes weren't nearly as intense and amazing as this one.
Holy shit guys! This game is really bad! I waited 50 hours to say this so that I make absolutely no mistake, but...
It is unimpactful because badly told.
The questdesign is the worst mechanically and pretty much none of the sidequests have any worthwile story to them.
The combat system lacks basic features which could make it more tactical (like telling everyone to regroup on your position or have them fulfilling roles).
It's artificially lengthened whereever possible.
The much praised relationship between the four is massively underdeveloped during gameplay,
I don't wanna drone on forever. Simply put, I am flabbergasted by the praise this received. All the good will in the world couldn't justify standards of storytelling and questdesign and open world design and set piece design etc. having gotten this low.
The only saving grace it has going for it is that it is very playable, but at the cost of any kind of sophistication or challenge on any level.
It is unimpactful because badly told.
The questdesign is the worst mechanically and pretty much none of the sidequests have any worthwile story to them.
The combat system lacks basic features which could make it more tactical (like telling everyone to regroup on your position or have them fulfilling roles).
It's artificially lengthened whereever possible.
The much praised relationship between the four is massively underdeveloped during gameplay,
remember the talk with Prompto on the roof of the motel? Should've been like 10 of those for each character.
I don't wanna drone on forever. Simply put, I am flabbergasted by the praise this received. All the good will in the world couldn't justify standards of storytelling and questdesign and open world design and set piece design etc. having gotten this low.
The only saving grace it has going for it is that it is very playable, but at the cost of any kind of sophistication or challenge on any level.
How does that work? Doesn't it consume MP?
I can counter every single one of your points with the following:
It's really fun to play.
There, you can understand the praise now.
Any game can look bad if you only focus on the negative.
That's not enough at all to be praised and it really shouldn't be in professional reviews though.
It's actually concerning that an unifnished game can be sold 70 and get 9/10 scores when all it provides it's a somewhat fun combat system and all it does is "go there and use the combat system!" without any sort of challenge or encounter design.
I don't hold against you that you're having fun with it. We can have fun with the most basic psychological loops to no end, that's how we're build, but I'm actually more interested in game design and storytelling than just satisfying my lizard brain
And it certainly is lacking in those regards which is not reflected in the reviews to the point where I really doubt that game criticism as a profession truly exists.
The game also has a beautifully realized open world, tons of optional content, minigames, side activities, I mean, to narrow it down to "a somewhat fun combat system" is missing the mark imo.
I mean, it's okay if you didn't like the game, but saying "the game is actually bad because I didn't like it and all reviews are wrong!" is petty as hell.
So I put the game down two days ago when I got to Ch.13 because of the news that they would change it in a patch. I contemplating should I wait or just say fuck it and play it. Im kind of hype to see
because I've been avoiding spoilering how he looks until I get to him.
Bahamut
Just play it.
The game is really badly made and it's apparent everywhere, not just story. The open world is empty as fuck with invisible walls and arbitrary boundaries everywhere. This is not what good open worlds are made of.
The optional content (side quests, the actual meat of the game) could be copy/pasted in any game, any open world. It has no particular context or consequences, or interest. It just makes you go somewhere and do something mindless that just involve using combat if you're lucky, and just doing some back and forth chasing frogs or talking to npcs if you're not.
It has been done better elsewhere. And years ago to boot.
You can choose to ignore it because it's fun, but that doesn't make it a better game. There are objective flaws of design and unfinished stuff. The second half being basically on rails and the two other regions of the game not being playable is already shameful enough and should warrant a big penalty for that alone.
This game also won't have any replay value since there isn't really any thing to be done differently.
I enjoyed my time with it though, because of the combat, music, and the amount of lines of dialogue, but people can't dissociate fun and good craftmanship apparently. It's okay actually, reviewers however definitely should.
It's like saying the Transformers films are good movies. They aren't in any way. They're just fun for many people.
The game would have the worst integrated and realized open worlds I'd ever experienced if I hadn't played MGSV. It has tons of brainless fetch quests and side fetch quests. The combat system is also atrociously bad and missing basic features that should be mandatory by now. The giant set pieces are full of jank and barely even utilize the combat system. The game's narrative is a patchwork of bullshit weaved together haphazardly, and the main characters are painfully underdeveloped for that to be the main theme.
That said the game is a bit more than the sum of its parts and has some great charm stuffed in there. It's too bad the history of this game meant it came out of the oven a mangled monster of a thing.
I haven't unlocked it myself, but I'm sure it consumes MP.
Sadly i'm done with the game for now after 120 hours, so I won't be unlocking it until they announce SP DLC or something.
It has beautiful vistas, but it all amounts to nothing in the end. It looks beautiful, but that's not the same as good open world design if it all feels pointless. It works like this: You go to a hub, you get a quest, go to the specified point and press x and then return to hub. Sometimes you have to fight a monster before pressing x, sometimes you have to find the specific spot where to press x, but that is mechanically all you're doing. So why's there an open world if you could just as well click on a mission list and be transported to the point of interest. That wouldn't be all too bad if any sidequest had a visible impact for the characters you're doing them for or any story behind them to make you feel any true connection in this world (not everybody has to be Witcher 3, but they didn't even try, just run of the mill I need something for reasons go get it).
I'm gonna compare the
photo sidequest line
you meet this guy who tells you to take pictures
Mister Megative
Banned
Many would say the exact opposite. Personally, it's my GOTY.
You're perfectly within your right to have your opinions, but opinions are not gospel.
It would be nice if they did something like that, but I don't even really think they need to go that far. I'm fine with going to place and pressing X sometimes as long as there's some decent fucking writing around it. They got so ridiculously lazy with the writing on these quests....
lol @ Tabata. Well, you're not wrong!
And that's pretty cool as well. I have that one already, but still didn't do it because I'm yet to visit that part of the map. Can't wait to hear these dialogues.
This kind of answer is really infuriating.
That's not even an opinion ffs. My opinion is that I liked the game despite flaws.
The actual reality is that is badly made and doesn't deserve praise, I offered actual points where the game displays flaws of design (which aren't even subjective). There is no opposite to state except "I don't care/it doesn't bother me/I like it" which would be an actual valid opinion.
What's even the point of conversations if all there is to say is "I think the sky is yellow respect my opinion"
Imp the Dimp
Member
That's a false equivalence. The flaws are there but people are free to weigh the pros and cons of the game as they see fit. Also, some people might just enjoy the things you don't appreciate.
BlazingDarkness
Member
This one is super easy, you just need to warp along the tops of structures and navigate the base that way, you don't need to sneak or walk along the ground at all, just warp and tail him
People enjoy invisible walls for no reasons and cut continents? They enjoy shitty cameras?
Characterization, music, combat automation, visual design, etc, are subject to be appreciated or not according to taste but I don't talk about those.
djSyndrome
Member
Cleared Costlemark and finally got the horn for the last Engine Blade upgrade.
Party is around level 68, thinking of taking on Adamantoise next. Any suggestions?
Party is around level 68, thinking of taking on Adamantoise next. Any suggestions?
level1
Member
Haha I also got a random quest while camping where a black chocobo steals Ignis' glasses and I had to sneak around the chocobo while he distracted it with greens. It's stuff like this that really makes exploration so enjoyable to me.
Some people are just not interested in evaluation of something, but I for one appreciate you making good arguments. I would really love for someone to dispute them with the same amount of critical thinking because I might see something I wasn't able to see before and learn from it...
I'd recommend getting the Zwill Crossblades from the legend questline from the smithie in Lestallum. They drastically sped up for fight for me around your level.
I decided to delete the game last night instead of going after the Sealed Dungeons. I'm feeling pretty great about my 70 hours in getting the Platinum and feel those things might only start to make be bored of my experience.
Instead of writing a long review (tl;dr 9/10, mostly great execution and great ideas some of which have bad execution), I'll just focus on one comment I've seen a few times that irks me, which is that the open world is pointless and all the side content sucks.
Baloney. The dungeons alone make exploration worth it. Finding a new dungeon unannounced in this game is so much more satisfying than finding any camp/settlement/dungeon in a Bethesda/BioWare/TW3 game. That they feel so handcrafted and whole-assed with classic FF bosses, puzzles, and worthwhile loot (usually Royal Arms) at the end imbues the open world with a sense of discovery. It doesn't mean you roam around on foot everywhere hoping to stumble across something. Not every open world needs to be approached the same way. But it might mean you look at your map and say, "Hmmm, there's some space here with interesting geographical markers. I bet there's something there." And then you go and that red icon pops up and you think "A-ha!".
Secondly, the hunts. I feel there's too many, but there's also quite a few I legitimately enjoyed. I didn't think the travel was actually a problem, as I'd leave my car at the settlement and head out on choco then warp back after.
Thirdly, fishing. Yes this deserves its own category. The fishing minigame in this game is the best one I've ever played. It does the best job simulating an actual fish struggle and moreover it's actually hard. As much as I love Dark Cloud 2's fishing (the previous GOAT) it was only a matter of time before you reeled it in. FFXV's bigger monsters (especially the Liege and the Devil) had my palms sweaty as I fought with it over what felt like an hour but was actually only ~5 minutes. The bait system is properly implemented: diverse without being too specific and leading to a bunch of empty casts. As a reward you can either get items to sell/craft magic with, or good flesh to make tasty meals with (and the meals are another wholly fleshed out system that work very well in the game).
Fourth, even though there are a ton of repetitive and uninteresting side quests, the combat is so fun that it makes those quests more desirable to get through. As opposed to games with bad combat where you come upon another copy/paste "help this particular icon!" part in the world and decide to skip it because it's not unique content and will at best bore you, at worst frustrate you.
Not every open world is about discovering small well-told vignettes that you stumble upon in the wilderness, and Final Fantasy side content in particular has never been about that. Instead, FF optional content is gameplay-focused. New bosses, new weapons, new dungeons, etc. It was more than enough to keep me engaged during my time with it.
You are mistaken. What you did was offer facts and then assume the argument to arrive at the conclusion that they are flaws. Case in point: saying the second half of the game is on rails and that this is bad. Sorry, you need an actual argument to go along with that. Similarly, while it's true that the open world has invisible boundaries, they inhabit such a miniscule amount of your actual experience with the open world that this smells like looking for problems to me. You also mention that the trash side content is the actual meat of the game. Where's your evidence for this claim? What's the "meat" of a game? Is it a matter of time spent? Okay, then the meat of The Witcher 3 are the myriad storyless collection quests scattered around the world. That you can spend 70 hours doing unique content doesn't seem to matter under this definition since you can spend an extra 200 doing shit content. That doesn't make sense to me.
Instead of writing a long review (tl;dr 9/10, mostly great execution and great ideas some of which have bad execution), I'll just focus on one comment I've seen a few times that irks me, which is that the open world is pointless and all the side content sucks.
Baloney. The dungeons alone make exploration worth it. Finding a new dungeon unannounced in this game is so much more satisfying than finding any camp/settlement/dungeon in a Bethesda/BioWare/TW3 game. That they feel so handcrafted and whole-assed with classic FF bosses, puzzles, and worthwhile loot (usually Royal Arms) at the end imbues the open world with a sense of discovery. It doesn't mean you roam around on foot everywhere hoping to stumble across something. Not every open world needs to be approached the same way. But it might mean you look at your map and say, "Hmmm, there's some space here with interesting geographical markers. I bet there's something there." And then you go and that red icon pops up and you think "A-ha!".
Secondly, the hunts. I feel there's too many, but there's also quite a few I legitimately enjoyed. I didn't think the travel was actually a problem, as I'd leave my car at the settlement and head out on choco then warp back after.
Thirdly, fishing. Yes this deserves its own category. The fishing minigame in this game is the best one I've ever played. It does the best job simulating an actual fish struggle and moreover it's actually hard. As much as I love Dark Cloud 2's fishing (the previous GOAT) it was only a matter of time before you reeled it in. FFXV's bigger monsters (especially the Liege and the Devil) had my palms sweaty as I fought with it over what felt like an hour but was actually only ~5 minutes. The bait system is properly implemented: diverse without being too specific and leading to a bunch of empty casts. As a reward you can either get items to sell/craft magic with, or good flesh to make tasty meals with (and the meals are another wholly fleshed out system that work very well in the game).
Fourth, even though there are a ton of repetitive and uninteresting side quests, the combat is so fun that it makes those quests more desirable to get through. As opposed to games with bad combat where you come upon another copy/paste "help this particular icon!" part in the world and decide to skip it because it's not unique content and will at best bore you, at worst frustrate you.
Not every open world is about discovering small well-told vignettes that you stumble upon in the wilderness, and Final Fantasy side content in particular has never been about that. Instead, FF optional content is gameplay-focused. New bosses, new weapons, new dungeons, etc. It was more than enough to keep me engaged during my time with it.
You are mistaken. What you did was offer facts and then assume the argument to arrive at the conclusion that they are flaws. Case in point: saying the second half of the game is on rails and that this is bad. Sorry, you need an actual argument to go along with that. Similarly, while it's true that the open world has invisible boundaries, they inhabit such a miniscule amount of your actual experience with the open world that this smells like looking for problems to me. You also mention that the trash side content is the actual meat of the game. Where's your evidence for this claim? What's the "meat" of a game? Is it a matter of time spent? Okay, then the meat of The Witcher 3 are the myriad storyless collection quests scattered around the world. That you can spend 70 hours doing unique content doesn't seem to matter under this definition since you can spend an extra 200 doing shit content. That doesn't make sense to me.
New DLC info is out,sounds pretty good....really tempted to get the Season Pass...
Might be spoilery if you are on blackout lol...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/final-fantasy-15-first-dlc-will-bring-back-classic-villain-3446434
Might be spoilery if you are on blackout lol...
http://www.gamezone.com/news/final-fantasy-15-first-dlc-will-bring-back-classic-villain-3446434
After considerable hours in for me, and I'm not sure I see the value of 1x airstep, so I'm curious what the infinite would get you. Not even sure I've even done one. Probably needs a tutorial, though I just unlocked the Armiger one and it didn't really tell me anything that wasn't in the game either.
Mister Megative
Banned
Sigh.
I enjoyed the sidequests and hunts; I found them engaging and fun.
Noctis and bros were compelling and their friendship was believable.
I thought the open world was beautiful and I loved hopping on my chocobo and exploring.
I thought the combat was the best in the series, having played every single Final Fantasy game.
Villain was fantastic. Final boss fight was satisfying.
I thought the ending was amazing and poignant.
I absolutely love the mountain of postgame content the game throws at you.
I enjoyed the story beats from Chapter 9 on.
I feel the game is highly deserving of praise.
Better? I don't really have time to get into the minutiae. But I can say this: our assessments of the game, while much different, have one thing in common.
They are opinions. Not facts. Not gospel truths. Opinions. Same as every single review. Opinions. You may not agree with them, and that's the beauty of it. It's allowed. However, I get the sense you're getting some sort of satisfaction out of crapping all over people's opinions who legitimately enjoyed it, and that's a shame.
Why everyone hate the catching frog quests?
I found it enjoyable, and also I see in it one of the many things that connects with previous FF... Quina loves for frogs...
Also these were super easy and not annoying at all...
Yea, seems kinda harmless. I onlt did two of them tho. Seems the final one is bad?
aggienader
Member
Well said. I am 31 years-old and I've tried to get into just about every Final Fantasy game to no avail. I am 30 hours into this one and on Chapter 13. This is the most I've ever enjoyed a Final Fantasy by far.
djSyndrome
Member
Thanks! I just unlocked the Level 85 fight from Randolph but haven't tried it yet - am I close?
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Yeah see that's an opinion with no arguments because it's an opinion, a feeling, on top of not being about the points I'm talking about. And some judgment about someone else based on nothing to counter balance the lack of argument, why not.
That's actually a good fit for Gladio imo
But this is an example of the open world taking away from the series rather than adding it. I'm not going to argue with you that some of the dungeons aren't cool. They are, but why are they hiding off in some fucking corner and probably level 45+? Why did they spend their time hiding good content? In previous FF games that would have been hooked into the story or had some connecting tissue. Here it's poorly written if it even is there. Meanwhile the actual main story is direly lacking in that sort of direction and "whole-assed" handcrafted dungeons. Seriously why in shit's name is
the place with Shiva just one screen when they had the time to make a 5 hour fucking platforming dungeon.
I know my opinion isn't gospel, obviously, but I found the combat to be the worst of any Final Fantasy by a wide margin. It would be acceptable as a spinoff title, but even then it's missing some crucial things that in 2016 shouldn't be missing. I can't control any of my party members outside of one goddamned skill? WTF? We had Gambits back with XII. The fact that bushes and the camera in general can fuck you up is just unacceptable. The battle system is a chaotic mess and that's putting it lightly.
Yes Final Fantasy side content has been gameplay focused and that's fine, but Final Fantasy side content has largely been just that... side content. Here it's practically the main content.
Mister Megative
Banned
Yeah, I'm not even gonna bother on the back-and-forth.
It's ok, abuse r1+triangle
I'm still waiting for arguments about how cut content, shitty camera, unfinsihed narrative full of cuts they didn't even bother to hide, and invisible walls are an opinion
That's not "all that it provides" and you know it.
And that is not a reality. That's an opinion. And plenty of people disagree with it. And yes, those points are 100% subjective. Stop with the bullshit.
I can't wait to get this one, sounds great.
When you guys come with things like:
"This is not what good open worlds are made of."
Followed by:
"I offered actual points where the game displays flaws of design (which aren't even subjective). There is no opposite to state except "I don't care/it doesn't bother me/I like it" which would be an actual valid opinion."
Why would anyone bother?
How in the world is judging what constitutes a good open world not subjective? People enjoy different things from games.
Personally, I think Mafia II has a much better open world than most sandbox games I've played, and people say it's shit because "there's nothing to do" all the time. Seems like there's a lot of confusion about open world and sandbox as being separate things, and not necessarily coming in the same package, even though they usually do.
Shadow of the Colossus, Mafia II, Dragon's Dogma, I think all of these games utilize their open worlds very well, but they're always criticized for the exact same thing: "there's nothing to do!". Who fucking cares? Amusement Park isn't the only valid form of open world design, you don't need something to distract you every three steps of the way. Having the open world as a backdrop, a level structure, and handcrafted meaningful content like the camping quests, optional dungeons and tombs, lore information and unique enemies to fight makes exploration rewarding and worth it. Having a very unique landmark also makes it easy to navigate and guide yourself without staring at a minimap while you chase your next activity.
It does fail at giving narrative context to its fetch quests, but makes up for that with meaningful interaction, imo. Going through an optional dungeon in this game is a much better reward for my exploration than I've ever got from most of the games people praise for their open world design. But I'm not here to say they're objectively wrong, it's just my preference. I'm not too big on open world games usually, and enjoy it occasionally when they take this kind of approach to it. It's not right or wrong, it's just my preference.
I was actually incredibly scared about it and lost most of my hype back when Tabata started to talk about Open World so frequently. I was convinced it would be crap and ruined by it, but as they started to talk more about it, especially with statements about "it's ok if there's not a lot to do. In order to properly convey the sense of a roadtrip, you need large stretches of land to drive by", I was hooked, I thought they would nail that specific kind of open world that I very much enjoy, when it's only used as a map structure, not necessarily the core aspect of the game design. Here the core that drives most of the design decisions, including all of the massive amount of systems designed is the road trip and the relationship between the main cast. It's what ties everything together and makes what would sound like a bloated mess if you describe all of the different systems actually work as a cohesive package.
And it's funny how people try to sound more critical when they're analyzing things negatively. To quote yourself:
You do realize that if you just add "use witcher sense" to your description, it would perfectly describe most quests in Witcher 3 as well, right? It's a great game, I have even more hours into it than I have in FFXV, but it's cute that you use such a simplistic view of the game's structure when it also fits Witcher 3. The difference is that you'll get dialogue before and after the witcher sense-based fetch quest where wind blows indoors and they tell you a sad story about how shitty life in Velen is. They may or may not ask you to not take the money, because some sick kid needs it or whatever, and you just choose whatever you feel like because the economy is completely meaningless aside from the first few hours in White Orchard. You don't feel pressed to make the tough choice, you just choose what you feel like saying, you act as the writer, instead of the character.
Yea I've been seeing for awhile now where sometimes when people bring up the non-subjective flaws this game have. Meanwhile I'm like, well if it's not subjective, then... What do you really want us to say about it? Like if someone said the camera in this game was shit. I'd be like... Well, you're not wrong. But I don't particularly see where the discussion can go from there. After all, if it's objectively bad, all we can merely do is try and overlook it.
Because like, at some point, when it gets repeated over and over, it just gets annoying to hear, and does typically make said person look like they're just in the thread to crap on the game and do not much else. Which is obviously allowed of course (The other side of no criticism being allowed would suck just as much), but you can't really blame people for not wanting to really bother dealing with that. Especially when in the midst of those people talking about these objective flaws, they insert their subjective opinions and just say outright the entire game is bad, why is everyone praising it, it's unfinished, etc. etc. Which just serves to defeat the purpose of them ostensibly wanting to discuss the game's flaws. When I read stuff like that, it just comes across as them wanting everyone to admit the game sucks.
I can respect the argument that previous FFs have had longer main scenarios, and that given a choice between having these dungeons integrated into the main quest with no open world, and getting what we got you'd choose the former. This is a different argument than what I was making, of course, but I don't see a reason to argue against it.
The camera sucks, it's true. I don't find battles to be a chaotic mess. There are plenty of tools you have to deal with large groups of enemies, such as large weapons, magic, warpstrikes, and Gladio links. You're also correct that we should have some modicum of control over how our allies attack/defend, but the game understands just how often your party members will get hurt/go down and gives you the appropriate amount of curatives to combat this. For once in a Final Fantasy game I actually used my hoard of elixirs/megalixirs, lol.
I'd put 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12 (haven't played IZJS yet) and 14 as having clear worse combat than 15. 7 & 10 I find comparable, and 5 and 13 I think are better.
freeofgreed
Member
I think my Cid Quests are just permanently glitched. It's been telling me to pass the time/do hunts for the past 4 chapters/15 hours :/
ArchedThunder
Banned
Finished the game last night, loved it, even teared up at the ending.
After finishing chapter 13 I was like "Wait, that's what people thought was the worst thing ever?"
I actually enjoyed chapter 13....
After finishing chapter 13 I was like "Wait, that's what people thought was the worst thing ever?"
I actually enjoyed chapter 13....
Try camping.
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