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[cash_longfellow]

Copied from my responses in several places, because I am 100% convinced it makes sense.
If you haven’t finished FF16 yet, turn back now, last warning lol

Spoiler alert for anyone reading….

But Clive didn’t die….The book Final Fantasy at the very end was written by Joshua initially before he died and was completed by Clive. Clive was gifted a quill pen and encouraged to put the sword down and pick up the pen in a quest.

This wouldn’t be the first time Clive took someone else’s likeness (CID).

Plus Joshua Rosfeld (who supposedly wrote the book completely) died. There was no way Clive as Ultima and/or Phoenix could bring him back, because again, as the lore says in the game, the “Raise” spell would not work on him.

Clive also just had his arm turn to the curse, plenty other people who survived that…Jill and CID being two of them. Clive submitted to the fact that he was willing to give up his powers of priming and magic. At that moment he “died” as far as having powers goes, and Metia flickered while Jill was looking at it. She knew at that moment the Clive she knew died….but then she almost smiled….because she realized that Clive actually lived, but his powers died, but she didn’t care about that. She loved Clive before she even knew he had priming and magic powers, proven by early game scenes before Clive was considered anyone special by his mother.

I believe Clive and Jill reunited and had children and passed the story down for generations, hence the ending where we are left with the book “Final Fantasy” that was started by Joshua, and finished by Clive under the pen name “Joshua Rosfeld”.

The lore is the key. It legitimately paints the picture throughout the whole game that Clive would end up penning a book and would submit his powers to save the future…and that’s exactly what happened.

Go through the game again with these points in mind, read all the lore, and you will see the ending for what it is….you’re welcome

So did Clive survive and finish “Final Fantasy” in remembrance of his brother?

Or did he actually die?

(Disclaimer, I’m buzzed and I’m sorry if I’m reaching….but also not sorry ).

 

[adamsapple]

Clive died but he gave some part of the phoenix's power back to him, or at least that what it looks like, so Joshua probably survived.

Also, it's gonna be real hard for Clive to write a book with petrified hands.

 

[March Climber]

I thought this thread was going to be in regards to that scene where Ultima was revealing the truth about his kind and how they were constantly trying to outrun the Blight, making the Blight feel somewhat like The Reapers from Mass Effect.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Clive died but he gave some part of the phoenix's power back to him, or at least that what it looks like, so Joshua probably survived.

Also, it's gonna be real hard for Clive to write a book with petrified hands.

Butttt…playing the game you will realize that Clive is opposite handed swinging the sword, of the hand that crystallizes at the end

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Clive died but he gave some part of the phoenix's power back to him, or at least that what it looks like, so Joshua probably survived.

Also, it's gonna be real hard for Clive to write a book with petrified hands.

As far as the ending shows only 1 hand was petrified. I agree with the general consensus that he lived and write/finish the book.

 

[cash_longfellow]

As far as the ending shows only 1 hand was petrified. I agree with the general consensus that he lived and write/finish the book.

Thank you! My third play through, I am still catching things that make it far more plausible.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I thought this thread was going to be in regards to that scene where Ultima was revealing the truth about his kind and how they were constantly trying to outrun the Blight, making the Blight feel somewhat like The Reapers from Mass Effect.

I sat on this thought for quite a while the first playthrough. I also went through the whole, “I’m Ultima and I created all of you clowns” thoughts…but that lead me to the feeling that the “Final Fantasy” book at the end was actually just a book, story, and fantasy. And that the whole game was really just a story and didn’t happen, and you were playing through the book. But I realized Japanese devs wouldn’t do all that. That’s an American open ended story lol.

But yea I’m with you. I’m still on the fence about the blight, and still wondering why it felt like some of the enemies from FF13. For a brief moment, I thought that it was just a whole metaphorical book for Final Fantasy in general, and it had always been set in the same world….especially seeing as the scene with the side quest late game with Clive and Jill with the castle, that looked like the FF1 castle and Jill found a “Garland” for the quest, which ironically was the first boss…in the similar castle…in FF1

 

[Coconutt]

I want to believe, I want Jill and Torgal to be happy. If I had to choose between Joshua and Clive, I think it is more likely Clive is the one who survived in the end to write the book. Joshua had a hole in his chest and pretty sure he was already dead by the time Clive healed the wound. I could also see it being Dion possibly but like the idea of Clive surviving better.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I want to believe, I want Jill and Torgal to be happy. If I had to choose between Joshua and Clive, I think it is more likely Clive is the one who survived in the end to write the book. Joshua had a hole in his chest and pretty sure he was already dead by the time Clive healed the wound. I could also see it being Dion possibly but like the idea of Clive surviving better.

I like it…I’m with you, I could be reaching because I want my peoples to survive…but I know something deeper is going on. I’m hard pressed to believe they would kill off everyone outside of Jill and Torgal. They said initially they weren’t going to drop DLC, but I feel like they were leaning that way for sure.

Regardless of what happens or what actually happened…I’m soooooo fucking happy they didn’t kill off Torgal, orrr Ambrosia

 

[Madflavor]

I wrote this in a few places and I'll just repost it here:

All signs line up and point to Clive surviving and returning to Jill. He took on Joshua's name and wrote "Final Fantasy"

• It's not the first time Clive took on another person's name.
• Harpocrates gives Clive a quill, asking him to put down the sword and take up the pen once he defeats Ultima.
• "The only Fantasy here is yours. And we shall be it's Final witness!" Nobody except Clive and Ultima were there to witness that line. The name of the book is "Final Fantasy."
• Clive is the narrator of the story. He narrates the beginning and the ending of the game. "And thus did our Journey end." The Platinum trophy is called "The Chronicler" with the subtext "And thus did our Journey end."
• Clive is right handed. His left hand turned to stone.
• Metia doesn't fade because Clive "dies". It fades because Clive destroyed all magic in the world. This also explains why Jill can't sense him anymore and assumes he's dead.
• There's a scene where Jill explains how when the dawn breaks, she knows he'll return to her.
• Part of Clive's character arc is learning how to save himself. This is directly called out multiple times by other characters, including Jill.
• The End Credits song spells out Clive returning to Jill.

I was searching for something,
Moongazing,
Frightened of the storm
When you appeared to me.
I was so glad
It was you.
I have no doubt
This flame will never go out,
Just like nothing
Ever happened.

The song literally plays right after Jill's smiles at the sunset and fades to credits.

Symbolism has always been an important part of Final Fantasy's storytelling throughout it's history. All of this is deliberate. It is also important to NOT look at all of these points individually on their own, because all of these points line up together and support each other. Let's set aside some of these points and just look at the Book for example:

Clive narrates the beginning and end of the game -> Clive gets the quill to chronicle his journey -> Titles the book the words he used to deliver the death blow to Ultima -> Uses the Outlaw Symbol on the book -> Platinum Trophy is The Chronicler and uses the narrator's (Clive's) closing words as it's subtext "And thus did our Journey End" -> Circle back to point 1.

You can believe Clive is dead and it was Joshua who wrote it, but the way the evidence in support of Clive's survival mounts up and the way it supports each other, goes well beyond coincidence. The clues, foreshadowing and symbolism were laid out deliberately. Lastly I will remind you that this is far from the first time a Final Fantasy game ended with the ambiguous and possible death of a main character, only to be revealed later on that they survived:

Spoiler: Spoilers for Endings in the FF series

FFVII - Advent Children confirmed Cloud and humanity survived Meteor
FFX - The sequel FFX-2 confirms the post credits scene of FFX is Tidus returning to Spira
FF Tactics - Matsuno confirmed on Twitter years later that Ramza and Alma survived and adventured to another land
FFXIII - Didn't end ambiguously, but Fang and Vanille were brought back in one of the sequels.

 

[March Climber]

I sat on this thought for quite a while the first playthrough. I also went through the whole, “I’m Ultima and I created all of you clowns” thoughts…but that lead me to the feeling that the “Final Fantasy” book at the end was actually just a book, story, and fantasy. And that the whole game was really just a story and didn’t happen, and you were playing through the book. But I realized Japanese devs wouldn’t do all that. That’s an American open ended story lol.

I took it as what they showed. It all happened, but over the years, the information starts to become more fiction than fact due to lack of evidence.

Things like minotaurs, medusa, gorgons, dragons, magical healers, cthulu, and mythological greek or roman deities could have existed in our past, considering how much descriptive theology there is out there of these things. However, we would only know as much as what's shown to our archeologists and other scientists out there today. The books on these things would end up drifting towards fiction due to how unbelievable they sound even if they existed at one point. In today's world, we simply know that the only form of 'magic' we have is technology and how we utilize it.

That's what I thought of when viewing that post credit end scene. Essentially, in the multiverse of FF, this specific Final Fantasy universe completely lost it's magic and over years of time, no one will ever remember ever having it to begin with. Not the worst ending imo, but certainly not the happiest one either.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I wrote this in a few places and I'll just repost it here:

All signs line up and point to Clive surviving and returning to Jill. He took on Joshua's name and wrote "Final Fantasy"

• It's not the first time Clive took on another person's name.
• Harpocrates gives Clive a quill, asking him to put down the sword and take up the pen once he defeats Ultima.
• "The only Fantasy here is yours. And we shall be it's Final witness!" Nobody except Clive and Ultima were there to witness that line. The name of the book is "Final Fantasy."
• Clive is the narrator of the story. He narrates the beginning and the ending of the game. "And thus did our Journey end." The Platinum trophy is called "The Chronicler" with the subtext "And thus did our Journey end."
• Clive is right handed. His left hand turned to stone.
• Metia doesn't fade because Clive "dies". It fades because Clive destroyed all magic in the world. This also explains why Jill can't sense him anymore and assumes he's dead.
• There's a scene where Jill explains how when the dawn breaks, she knows he'll return to her.
• Part of Clive's character arc is learning how to save himself. This is directly called out multiple times by other characters, including Jill.
• The End Credits song spells out Clive returning to Jill.

I was searching for something,
Moongazing,
Frightened of the storm
When you appeared to me.
I was so glad
It was you.
I have no doubt
This flame will never go out,
Just like nothing
Ever happened.

The song literally plays right after Jill's smiles at the sunset and fades to credits.

Symbolism has always been an important part of Final Fantasy's storytelling throughout it's history. All of this is deliberate. It is also important to NOT look at all of these points individually on their own, because all of these points line up together and support each other. Let's set aside some of these points and just look at the Book for example:

Clive narrates the beginning and end of the game -> Clive gets the quill to chronicle his journey -> Titles the book the words he used to deliver the death blow to Ultima -> Uses the Outlaw Symbol on the book -> Platinum Trophy is The Chronicler and uses the narrator's (Clive's) closing words as it's subtext "And thus did our Journey End" -> Circle back to point 1.

You can believe Clive is dead and it was Joshua who wrote it, but the way the evidence in support of Clive's survival mounts up and the way it supports each other, goes well beyond coincidence. The clues, foreshadowing and symbolism were laid out deliberately. Lastly I will remind you that this is far from the first time a Final Fantasy game ended with the ambiguous and possible death of a main character, only to be revealed later on that they survived:

Spoiler: Spoilers for Endings in the FF series

FFVII - Advent Children confirmed Cloud and humanity survived Meteor
FFX - The sequel FFX-2 confirms the post credits scene of FFX is Tidus returning to Spira
FF Tactics - Matsuno confirmed on Twitter years later that Ramza and Alma survived and adventured to another land
FFXIII - Didn't end ambiguously, but Fang and Vanille were brought back in one of the sequels.

Pardon the language….but fucking YES!!!! Thank you for sharing this. I am so glad that someone sees the same things that I do with the game. I talked to my girl for a minute about it, and she was convinced I am tripping about the whole thing. But we are legitimately on the same page about it. Seriously, thank you for helping me realize I’m not on my own here!!

 

[Kumomeme]

last quest with Harprocates mention he wished Clive to weild quill instead of sword later. at one of FFXVI showcase there is replica of the book with the quill, which is the one Harprocates give to Clive, which is indicate it was written by Clive but, after fight with Ultima, one of Clive's arm turned to stone which is im not sure if he capable to hold the quill if he still alive.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I wrote this in a few places and I'll just repost it here:

All signs line up and point to Clive surviving and returning to Jill. He took on Joshua's name and wrote "Final Fantasy"

• It's not the first time Clive took on another person's name. True
• Harpocrates gives Clive a quill, asking him to put down the sword and take up the pen once he defeats Ultima. Yeah, plausible
• "The only Fantasy here is yours. And we shall be it's Final witness!" Nobody except Clive and Ultima were there to witness that line. The name of the book is "Final Fantasy." imo is bit of a strach but i ll allow it.
• Clive is the narrator of the story. He narrates the beginning and the ending of the game. "And thus did our Journey end." The Platinum trophy is called "The Chronicler" with the subtext "And thus did our Journey end." Clive The Chronicler.
• Clive is right handed. His left hand turned to stone. fun fact 90% of ppl in the world are right handed
• Metia doesn't fade because Clive "dies". It fades because Clive destroyed all magic in the world. This also explains why Jill can't sense him anymore and assumes he's dead. U are right on the Metia thin, about Jills i think u are wrong.
• There's a scene where Jill explains how when the dawn breaks, she knows he'll return to her. Yeah, if she knows why would she be crying for his death ?
• Part of Clive's character arc is learning how to save himself. This is directly called out multiple times by other characters, including Jill. irrelevant imo

I will say one thing, for those who have never seen a person who has gone through several traumas cry from relief, I can assure you that for everything Jill went through during the game there is a great possibility that her crying is not from sadness, but from of relief, the weight of the world just came off her shoulders and i dont think that she was naive enouth to link Metia with Clive, i know that once she saw that Metia light was turning off she simply broke down and started to cry but not from sadness, but from relief, magic was no more.

adamsapple Clive died but he gave some part of the phoenix's power back to him, or at least that what it looks like, so Joshua probably survived.
Hopefully the phoenix's power had some teleportation power build in, because if dont, i dont see how joshua get out alive from the crystal explosion.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I will say one thing, for those who have never seen a person who has gone through several traumas cry from relief, I can assure you that for everything Jill went through during the game there is a great possibility that her crying is not from sadness, but from of relief, the weight of the world just came off her shoulders and i dont think that she was naive enouth to link Metia with Clive, i know that once she saw that Metia light was turning off she simply broke down and started to cry but not from sadness, but from relief, magic was no more.

adamsapple Clive died but he gave some part of the phoenix's power back to him, or at least that what it looks like, so Joshua probably survived.
Hopefully the power of the phoenix's had some teleportation power build in, because if dont, i dont see how joshua get out alive from the crystal explosion.

Well said! This is what I was hoping from this thread. The ending definitely left things open for discussion, and I love to hear other peoples views on it!

 

[Yoboman]

I think he survives. He has the power of the Phoenix now. His body at the end is turning to ash and the Phoenix rise from the ashes

Or at least it'll be as easy as that to say he survives for a sequel if they make it

 

[Lokaum D+]

I think he survives. He has the power of the Phoenix now. His body at the end is turning to ash and the Phoenix rise from the ashes

Or at least it'll be as easy as that to say he survives for a sequel if they make it

there is no more magic in the world by the end, no more power of eikon, no more nada.

I could even say that it would be extremely plausible if he had died of hypothermia for not knowing how to make a fire to warm himself, it would be comically sad.

 

[Yoboman]

there is no more magic in the world by the end, no more power of eikon, no more nada.

It's symbolic

 

[Lokaum D+]

It's symbolic

what is symbolic ?

 

[cash_longfellow]

I think he survives. He has the power of the Phoenix now. His body at the end is turning to ash and the Phoenix rise from the ashes

Or at least it'll be as easy as that to say he survives for a sequel if they make it

Or dlc

 

[Northeastmonk]

I think he’s dead. It’s left with him and his bro dead, Jill crying and then a fast forward to a book. Magic doesn’t exist anymore. It feels so weird. God I want Sakaguchi back at Square.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Joshua comments that Jote wrote detailed notes about their journey together during the game.

My immediate reaction to the after credits sequence was that the survivors of the game's ending collated those notes and added their own experiences and published the book. The only part which is still a bit questionable about that is that the 3 people who went to Origin all died, and thus there are no firsthand accounts of what happened there. Maybe the book doesn't contain that part of the game's story, who knows.

The after credits sequence is supposed to be a reference to how Bilbo and Frodo Baggins themselves wrote "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" in their universe, and I doubt we're supposed to think too deeply about it past that.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I think he’s dead. It’s left with him and his bro dead, Jill crying and then a fast forward to a book. Magic doesn’t exist anymore. It feels so weird. God I want Sakaguchi back at Square.

It’s not that barebones….I assure you.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Joshua comments that Jote wrote detailed notes about their journey together during the game.

My immediate reaction to the after credits sequence was that the survivors of the game's ending collated those notes and added their own experiences and published the book. The only part which is still a bit questionable about that is that the 3 people who went to Origin all died, and thus there are no firsthand accounts of what happened there. Maybe the book doesn't contain that part of the game's story, who knows.

The after credits sequence is supposed to be a reference to how Bilbo and Frodo Baggins themselves wrote "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" in their universe, and I doubt we're supposed to think too deeply about it past that.

Interesting take.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The other possibility is that yeah we do see Clive use the Phoenix's power to do what looks like heal Joshua before he blows himself and the crystal up.

Then Joshua could somehow miraculously survive and write the book.

Clive is dead though. We see him turning to stone and the last wisps of magic vanishing from the world. There is no doubt that the game staff intended for that to be conclusive, that Clive sacrifices himself to destroy the Ark and get rid of magic forever, which also will reverse the Blight and save the world.

 

[Madflavor]

There's an unwritten rule in storytelling, that if a character isn't shown to the audience to be definitively dead, assume they're not dead.

Never Found the Body

A character is Killed Off for Real and assumed by all other characters to be dead, but the death occurs in such a way that no body is recovered. No matter how all laws of physics and biology indicate No One Could Survive That, this old rule trumps all: "Never count someone dead unless you have...

tropedia.fandom.com

Never Found the Body - TV Tropes

A character is killed off, but their death occurs in such a way that no body is recovered. No matter how all laws of physics and biology indicate No One Could Survive That!, remember, this old rule trumps all: "Never count someone dead unless you …

tvtropes.org

We've all witnessed this multiple times in televisions, comics, video games, movies, etc. A character is "killed off", but we never see the body. Later in the story or in a sequel, the character returns for a big surprise twist. It's a very common storytelling tool that's been used for ages, to surprise audiences. Even FFXVI is guilty of this:

Wade and Tyler
The Phoenix erupts into a great flame, and Wade and Tyler disappear in a bright light. We don't actually see them die. Later in the game Wade is revealed to be alive.

Murdoch
Ifrit erupts into a great flame. We literally see Murdoch disintegrate from the fire.


There's no sound reason to believe Clive is actually dead, unless maybe it might just be what you personally want out of an ambiguous ending because that works better for you.

 

[cash_longfellow]

There's an unwritten rule in storytelling, that if a character isn't shown to the audience to be definitively dead, assume they're not dead.

Never Found the Body

A character is Killed Off for Real and assumed by all other characters to be dead, but the death occurs in such a way that no body is recovered. No matter how all laws of physics and biology indicate No One Could Survive That, this old rule trumps all: "Never count someone dead unless you have...

tropedia.fandom.com

Never Found the Body - TV Tropes

A character is killed off, but their death occurs in such a way that no body is recovered. No matter how all laws of physics and biology indicate No One Could Survive That!, remember, this old rule trumps all: "Never count someone dead unless you …

tvtropes.org

We've all witnessed this multiple times in televisions, comics, video games, movies, etc. A character is "killed off", but we never see the body. Later in the story or in a sequel, the character returns for a big surprise twist. It's a very common storytelling tool that's been used for ages, to surprise audiences. Even FFXVI is guilty of this:

Wade and Tyler
The Phoenix erupts into a great flame, and Wade and Tyler disappear in a bright light. We don't actually see them die. Later in the game Wade is revealed to be alive.

Murdoch
Ifrit erupts into a great flame. We literally see Murdoch disintegrate from the fire.


There's no sound reason to believe Clive is actually dead, unless maybe it might just be what you personally want out of an ambiguous ending because that works better for you.

This is exactly why I feel the ending is so powerful….and why naysayers who doubt Clive’s story telling power, need to play through again and pay attention to the lore. Shit is wayyyyy deeper than people are giving the story credit for.

 

[cash_longfellow]

The other possibility is that yeah we do see Clive use the Phoenix's power to do what looks like heal Joshua before he blows himself and the crystal up.

Then Joshua could somehow miraculously survive and write the book.

Clive is dead though. We see him turning to stone and the last wisps of magic vanishing from the world. There is no doubt that the game staff intended for that to be conclusive, that Clive sacrifices himself to destroy the Ark and get rid of magic forever, which also will reverse the Blight and save the world.

But the lore straight up states that the heals wouldn’t work…Clive knew that too. It was his way of cleaning his brother up and apologizing for what he felt responsible for. Joshua was dead, and there was absolutely no bringing him back. And that’s not an opinion, it’s a fact stated in the game itself.

 

[Danjin44]

I’m pretty sure Clive is dead and I even believe Joshua is dead as well because he didn’t bring the his body to shores and I remember Clive saying that even Phoenix power can’t bring dead back to life.

I think either Gav or Jill finished Joshua’s book in the end.

 

[March Climber]

I think he survives. He has the power of the Phoenix now. His body at the end is turning to ash and the Phoenix rise from the ashes

Or at least it'll be as easy as that to say he survives for a sequel if they make it

A Prequel starring Cid would not only be better, but would also make more sense as a theoretical next game.

He is the fan favorite I’ve barely seen anyone online complain about. He has a ton of stories and tales that the characters kept pointing out are simply gone or lost. He would be a very charismatic protagonist. He even gets the dog as a sidekick since he took care of it in the long time span that Clive was presumed dead during the intro.

The icing on the cake would be the fact that his own game would not involve constant appearances of Ultima and would thus be way more grounded as a result, especially since you could see more war councils, shady dealings, backstabbings, and whatever other Game of Thrones-style content you wanted to toss into the game, due to it not really needing a single, central world ending villain to drive things forward.

 

[Yoboman]

A Prequel starring Cid would not only be better, but would also make more sense as a theoretical next game.

He is the fan favorite I’ve barely seen anyone online complain about. He has a ton of stories and tales that the characters kept pointing out are simply gone or lost. He would be a very charismatic protagonist. He even gets the dog as a sidekick since he took care of it in the long time span that Clive was presumed dead during the intro.

The icing on the cake would be the fact that his own game would not involve constant appearances of Ultima and would thus be way more grounded as a result, especially since you could see more war councils, shady dealings, backstabbings, and whatever other Game of Thrones-style content you wanted to toss into the game, due to it not really needing a single, central world ending villain to drive things forward.

Would be interesting to see Waloed before it was corrupted. My only issue with that conceptus the Ramuh combat system is the worst by far

 

[skit_data]

Uhm... yes that's the ending

 

[The Shepard]

Completed it last night thinking Clive had died, now I believe strongly that he didn't and op is right, Clive lives to write/finish the story.

 

[March Climber]

Would be interesting to see Waloed before it was corrupted. My only issue with that conceptus the Ramuh combat system is the worst by far

They would probably just give him his own cool moveset. There were some strong spells that Joshua and Jill were doing during combat that Clive simply never had access to. I didn’t watch Cid enough during the times he was on Clive’s squad, but I assume the same applies to him.

And yes, one of the things that really bummed me out was the fact that there is no way to visit Waloed pre-pink sky and pre-zombie army. The pink sky really screwed with the natural colors and lighting of the game and it just persisted even to post-game. Truly unfortunate stuff.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Epilogue DLC or quickfire shorter sequel pls Yoshida.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Epilogue DLC or quickfire shorter sequel pls Yoshida.

Fuck no, the last time they made a sequel to an FF game with an ending this good, we got X-2

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Fuck no, the last time they made a sequel to an FF game with an ending this good, we got X-2

I do have faith in Yoshida's team to do good job with a sequel.

However it would be difficult from a narrative perspective given the ending wraps things up.

Just want to see Jill happy.

 

[Madflavor]

You have to take the ending at face value, or intentionally ignore the evidence, symbolism and hints that Clive is alive, in order to subscribe to the idea that he's dead. If this is supposed to be an ambiguous ending, it's not a well executed one. Usually you have to have at least somewhat close to an equal amount of evidence that supports different theories on the fate of a character.

I do have faith in Yoshida's team to do good job with a sequel.

However it would be difficult from a narrative perspective given the ending wraps things up.

Just want to see Jill happy.

If we're getting DLC, it's without a doubt going to be Leviathan the Lost. It offers the most in terms of what should be included in a DLC for this game:

• Big epic Eikon battles are the main course for FFXVI. Leviathan would bring an additional Eikon battle to the game.
• It's the only way to add more Eikon Abilities to Clive's arsenal.
• Finding Leviathan would likely require sailing to the other continent that was talked about. This means new zones.

Most importantly though, due to the nature of this DLC it would have to occur Mid-Story. If Clive were to absorb Leviathan, that could fundamentally change the ending, because at that point Clive is without question a fully completed vessel, whereas he wasn't at the end of the base game. We very well could be getting a mid story DLC that also expands/changes the ending.

 

[cash_longfellow]

A Prequel starring Cid would not only be better, but would also make more sense as a theoretical next game.

He is the fan favorite I’ve barely seen anyone online complain about. He has a ton of stories and tales that the characters kept pointing out are simply gone or lost. He would be a very charismatic protagonist. He even gets the dog as a sidekick since he took care of it in the long time span that Clive was presumed dead during the intro.

The icing on the cake would be the fact that his own game would not involve constant appearances of Ultima and would thus be way more grounded as a result, especially since you could see more war councils, shady dealings, backstabbings, and whatever other Game of Thrones-style content you wanted to toss into the game, due to it not really needing a single, central world ending villain to drive things forward.

I’d take a Cid centric game for sure!

 

[cash_longfellow]

Completed it last night thinking Clive had died, now I believe strongly that he didn't and op is right, Clive lives to write/finish the story.

Thanks! That’s what I thought after my first playthrough, but in Final Fantasy mode I started to piece things together with the Lore, and it really just makes sense to me.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Would be interesting to see Waloed before it was corrupted. My only issue with that conceptus the Ramuh combat system is the worst by far

This is true too…loved Cid, but hated his Ramuh’s abilities. I used the one where he slams the ground for a while after I got him for mobs, but other than that, even his ultimate seems weak.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I'd like to believe he's alive.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

If we're getting DLC, it's without a doubt going to be Leviathan the Lost. It offers the most in terms of what should be included in a DLC for this game:

• Big epic Eikon battles are the main course for FFXVI. Leviathan would bring an additional Eikon battle to the game.
• It's the only way to add more Eikon Abilities to Clive's arsenal.
• Finding Leviathan would likely require sailing to the other continent that was talked about. This means new zones.

Most importantly though, due to the nature of this DLC it would have to occur Mid-Story. If Clive were to absorb Leviathan, that could fundamentally change the ending, because at that point Clive is without question a fully completed vessel, whereas he wasn't at the end of the base game. We very well could be getting a mid story DLC that also expands/changes the ending.

I think we will but also think that might come later and first we get a Cid prequel which takes during the timeskip of teen Clive to 20s Clive.

This could cover his rescue / relationship with Benedikta, his breakaway from Barnabas's group, him forming the Hideaway and meeting Torgal. Makes the most sense as it can flesh out all the Dominants some more and Mid too.

 

[Blitzmangoman]

Clive is alive, at least I hope so. It was only one hand that was turned to stone, a sacrifice he made to save everyone.

Clive only healed Joshua's body, so he doesn't look all mangled up, he didn't want to see his baby brother that way. Joshua was long dead.

Apparently there is dlc coming? Let's hope.

 

[Teslerum]

Considering all the parallels to FF Tactics I'm tending towards survived.

It's meant to be ambiguous / open to interpretation anyway. Sometimes you don't need an answer.

 

[Kamina]

He narrated the game, so he is the author that took Joshua‘s name like Cid‘s before.

 

[RCU005]

My confusion is this:

1) Clive is never shown dying. What’s shown is that his hand is becoming stone, but that’s something that was happening to Cid and didn’t kill him. How is people inferring that he died? At least not yet. I believe they showed that to tell the audience that he overdid it and he doesn’t have magic anymore. (Doesn’t that happen to bearers?)

2) Didn’t Clive saves Joshua? You can clearly see they hole in his chest completely healing after Clive does something to him with Phoenix powers (I imagine he cast Rise or something like that) So he might not be dead, he just wasn’t shown again.

My disappointment from the ending comes from the lack of showing stuff. I hate endings like that but in this game specifically it was completely uncalled for. Nothing about the style of the story or the characters deserved a “interpretation” ending. It’s not like they are doing a sequel to leave an open ending. Also, every character deserved a nice closing. Some got it in the last side quest, but not the most important ones. Not showing Joshua and making people doubt if he died is stupid, they already did the fake out death at the beginning.

Other thing is Jill. Jill could have been one of the best characters in the Final Fantasy franchise, much better than Lighting and others, but they decided to put her aside so much it was insulting (for the audience). At least she had very good dialogue when it mattered and was so likeable.

About the post credit scene. It was Joshua who wrote it. Like I wrote above, Clive heals him so he survived. But it’s understandable that people is confused or even convinced because the game did a horrible job at the ending, it’s like they gave up badly at the game and didn’t want to make the ending.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

My confusion is this:

1) Clive is never shown dying. What’s shown is that his hand is becoming stone, but that’s something that was happening to Cid and didn’t kill him. How is people inferring that he died? At least not yet. I believe they showed that to tell the audience that he overdid it and he doesn’t have magic anymore. (Doesn’t that happen to bearers?)

2) Didn’t Clive saves Joshua? You can clearly see they hole in his chest completely healing after Clive does something to him with Phoenix powers (I imagine he cast Rise or something like that) So he might not be dead, he just wasn’t shown again.

My disappointment from the ending comes from the lack of showing stuff. I hate endings like that but in this game specifically it was completely uncalled for. Nothing about the style of the story or the characters deserved a “interpretation” ending. It’s not like they are doing a sequel to leave an open ending. Also, every character deserved a nice closing. Some got it in the last side quest, but not the most important ones. Not showing Joshua and making people doubt if he died is stupid, they already did the fake out death at the beginning.

Other thing is Jill. Jill could have been one of the best characters in the Final Fantasy franchise, much better than Lighting and others, but they decided to put her aside so much it was insulting (for the audience). At least she had very good dialogue when it mattered and was so likeable.

About the post credit scene. It was Joshua who wrote it. Like I wrote above, Clive heals him so he survived. But it’s understandable that people is confused or even convinced because the game did a horrible job at the ending, it’s like they gave up badly at the game and didn’t want to make the ending.

Another take is that it was a last act of love for his brother to clean up his wound so his body was in a dignified state and free from Ultima's mark.

 

[rofif]

We don't know what Metia is. It is supposedly just a dying start that coincidentally died that time.
Magic dying - metia dying makes no sense because... magic was supposedly only on earth where crystals succ reach. And/or Metia is some magic thing that can only be seen from magic earth but earth got no magic.
Clive got the curse. It could've stopped at the hand but we still see him dying on the beach.
There is nothing about Jill sensing him or not. She only looks at the star.

The dawn is symbolic of a new era.

Imo, if he lives and wrote the book? fuck them for not showing that. It doesn't benefit the ending

 

[Sub_Level]

Clive is dead af lol yall are on some copium.