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[Meicyn]

Yeah I knew that, just hoping for some more context. As of now she's just a shallow prototypical cartoon villain.

Eh. Disagree on the cartoon villain bit. We literally have parents that chain their children to furniture, forced to wallow in their own excrement as they're barely kept alive. For something more historical, we have the Bitch of Buchenwald who had lampshades and other items typically formed from goatskin instead made of human skin from prisoners, and allegedly got consistently excited at children sent to the chlorine gas chambers during World War 2.

Modern sensibilities make it difficult to believe such antics at times, but consider that we used to burn witches at the stake. Sociopaths are among us, and it's not cartoonish to feature a character that uses their children as a means to an end. It's pretty on brand, given the time period this game is inspired from.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I mean even the couple of BOSS FIGHTS. Zero challenge, no strong potions used. Dodged all the attacks I wanted easily, did all the attack variations the game presented. Plays like a mobile game.

Again, early in the game and the later section you are beyond overpowered for that point in the game. "Plays like a mobile game" - have you ever played a mobile game before?

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

It's just a little weird to see when the firstborn son was a priceless treasure in those times. She is a nutter if she was expecting to bat 1000 with every kid, and somehow forgetting they can still become a dominant later in life? Oops. Maybe some bad writing there but probably explained more later.



Yeah that seems likely. Would give some more sense to her motivations.

that's what make it even more inaccurate 1st born or sons in general were priceless only if your kid was deathly ill,disabled or did some dishonorable would yo get the time of treatment Clive got.

 

[Teslerum]

that's what make it even more inaccurate 1st born or sons in general were priceless only if your kid was deathly ill,disabled or did some dishonorable would yo get the time of treatment Clive got.

He is. He's not a dominant. For all purposes this is him being disabled as he should have awaken to the dominant as the firstborn son. Furthermore, the value of firstborn isn't here as such as the dominant is specifically stated to inherit the duchey. His dad only got it because it worked out as such timing wise.

It's even strongly implied in dialog that things were different before Clive didn't awaken to the dominant. The treatment started afterwards.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

that's what make it even more inaccurate 1st born or sons in general were priceless only if your kid was deathly ill,disabled or did some dishonorable would yo get the time of treatment Clive got.

He did do something dishonorable to her.

 

[thatJohann]

OMG this demo was incredible, went from no interest to DAY 1. My favorite part is that it has an easy difficulty "story" mode, I was kicking ass and feeling like a badass. That's why games need an easy mode. LOVED IT.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

He did do something dishonorable to her.

which is what?

 

[Madflavor]

its so over the top its comical its like something out of a Disney movie.

What Disney films have you watched?

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

He is. He's not a dominant. For all purposes this is him being disabled as he should have awaken to the dominant as the firstborn son. Furthermore, the value of firstborn isn't here as such as the dominant is specifically stated to inherit the duchey. His dad only got it because it worked out as such timing wise.

It's even strongly implied in dialog that things were different before Clive didn't awaken to the dominant. The treatment started afterwards.

his dad even says during the talk with Joshua that getting the phoenix blessing isnt guaranteed he even hits that not only him but other people dont even get the blessing regardless of royal blood or not.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Loved the music and the cutscenes, but the combat system is terrible. Dumb button mashing, zero challenge (without rings), boring as hell. Hard to understand how people can enjoy this combat style.

Yeah, cause every RPG has a full skill tree unlocked at first two hours, did u tried the eikonic battle demo ? How ppl can enjoy the combat ? Take a look



Combat isnt boring, its u that need to git gud

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

What Disney films have you watched?

which ones have you not you have to be blind to not see it such. Historically speaking if she was plotting something like this or had contempt for one of the kings kids she would be killed on the spot in the the town square point blank period shes pretty much treats Clive, Jill and Joshua all the same. The only leverage she has is because she married to him but that can be revoked at any time since the king/emperor ect holds way more power then anyone else next in line that would hold as much power as him would be the prince.

 

[Teslerum]

his dad even says during the talk with Joshua that getting the phoenix blessing isnt guaranteed he even hits that not only him but other people dont even get the blessing regardless of royal blood or not.

No he doesn't. At no point.

Joshua even mentions that the dominant always gets born into their family. And again the Archduke mentions that their family was chosen to do so. And again, that dominants inherit was also stated in dialog.

What are you talking about?

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

which is what?

It is always someone in their family bloodline that gets it and Clive is the firstborn son. He dishonored her by not being born the dominant. She considers him to be worthless. Not even worth addressing. I think it's a not so subtle play on he makes her feel like she failed the first time out. Like her having him makes her a failure and Joshua saved her from that fate.

 

[baphomet]

Pretty good so far.

Far better than the trash that was 7 remake.

 

[Lokaum D+]

which ones have you not you have to be blind to not see it such. Historically speaking if she was plotting something like this or had contempt for one of the kings kids she would be killed on the spot in the the town square point blank period shes pretty much treats Clive, Jill and Joshua all the same. The only leverage she has is because she married to him but that can be revoked at any time since the king/emperor ect holds way more power then anyone else next in line that would hold as much power as him would be the prince.

Jill has nothing to do with the Rosfield, they are not blood related

 

[Balducci30]

yeah, buts hes the phoenix, so I could see a resurrection without memory.

He's the Phoenix? I thought he was the beast

 

[Madflavor]

which ones have you not you have to be blind to not see it such.

I don't know. I haven't seen many Disney films involving decapitations, dry humping, characters saying fuck, and child murder. It's just funny your mind went to Disney.

Historically speaking if she was plotting something like this or had contempt for one of the kings kids she would be killed on the spot in the the town square point blank period shes pretty much treats Clive, Jill and Joshua all the same. The only leverage she has is because she married to him but that can be revoked at any time since the king/emperor ect holds way more power then anyone else next in line that would hold as much power as him would be the prince.

• This is Fantasy, not History. It's in the title.
• If you want to use the "historically speaking" excuse, it would depend on the culture, time period, region, and the King/Emperor's personality.
• I would caution against applying real world historical logic to a medieval high fantasy setting, that has it's own established lore and rules.
• There's lots more story, and we'll see more of her character and motivations.

 

[mortal]

I always thought titan was a pretty basic level summon, a little bit under the likes of Alexander (depending on the game he's either SSS tier or high mid pack) or Diablos.



Honestly I would have wanted Diablos but we are getting Anima it seems for the dark themed one (better than ghost train I guess), still hoping Alexander shows but suspect given the trailers he would have shown up by now if he was included.

Yea, that's true.
Titan has typically been an early-game summoning spell for a lower-leveled party.

In FFXVI, I think they're striving to reframe these classic characters in a way they haven't before and playing with some of the tropes.
Narratively they occupy literal physical space within the game's world, with a larger-than-life presence, rather than being an elaborate summoning sequence like in FFVIII and many other FF games.

FFXVI features the most terrifying depiction of Titan I've ever seen. It's not just the character design.
His presence on the battlefield is absolutely devastating. Just imagining the sort of death and destruction that a gigantic humanoid monster would be truly capable of, it makes so much sense.
They're essentially walking weapons of mass destruction in a political context, or alternatively, anthropomorphized natural disasters.


Diablos would've been fitting for the FFXVI. Would be cool if there were secret Eikonic Feats that the devs are saving for players to uncover through sidequests.

 

[Teslerum]

• If you want to use the "historically speaking" excuse, it would depend on the culture, time period, region, and the King/Emperor's personality.

It's not even historically speaking. Plenty of aristocrats were abiding to their wives, they didn't go out immediately publicly murdering them because they acted in certain ways (Traitorous actions, yes. But disliking kids, no.). Hell, that would have led to straight up war in a lot of cases through family bonds.

 

[Black_Mamba]

Yeah, cause every RPG has a full skill tree unlocked at first two hours, did u tried the eikonic battle demo ? How ppl can enjoy the combat ? Take a look



Combat isnt boring, its u that need to git gud

I need to git bad, because it lacks challenge, doesn't demand skills and precision. I don't like the idea of lifting up enemies in the air just to hit them a thousand more times. Hoping the full game has better gameplay, some kind of strategy element for combat and more interaction (exploration was also nonexistent in the demo). Will wait for the reviews.

 

[semiconscious]

Eh. Disagree on the cartoon villain bit. We literally have parents that chain their children to furniture, forced to wallow in their own excrement as they're barely kept alive. For something more historical, we have the Bitch of Buchenwald who had lampshades and other items typically formed from goatskin instead made of human skin from prisoners, and allegedly got consistently excited at children sent to the chlorine gas chambers during World War 2.

Modern sensibilities make it difficult to believe such antics at times, but consider that we used to burn witches at the stake. Sociopaths are among us, and it's not cartoonish to feature a character that uses their children as a means to an end. It's pretty on brand, given the time period this game is inspired from.

whoa! are you seriously saying that simply because real-life monster exist among us, that this somehow makes 'cartoonish villains' impossible? the 2 have existed together comfortably for as long as people have told each other stories & fairy tales...

at this point in time, there's no more reason to assume that clive's mom is so extraordinarily evil as to be capable of the horrors you describe than there is to think she's just, well, a 'cartoon villain'. especially what with the game fundamentally being a cartoon & all. we'll just have to see...

any representation of evil that's done in a simplistic, utilitarian, manipulative manner can absolutely be cartoonish...

 

[Shifty1897]

This is *Chef's kiss*

I had it playing on my phone while I worked all day today. I didn't even mind the major AWS outage in us-east-1.

 

[mortal]

its so over the top its comical its like something out of a Disney movie.

Well of course it's over the top. Melodrama is very much part of Final Fantasy's DNA.

Final Fantasy actually isn't that far removed from Disney considering that Kingdom Hearts exists.
So I guess likening it to Disney isn't the craziest thing I heard, although I doubt anyone that's familiar with Disney movies would ever mistake this narrative tone for Disney.

 

[vpance]

It is always someone in their family bloodline that gets it and Clive is the firstborn son. He dishonored her by not being born the dominant. She considers him to be worthless. Not even worth addressing. I think it's a not so subtle play on he makes her feel like she failed the first time out. Like her having him makes her a failure and Joshua saved her from that fate.

People can become dominants later in life as explained in the game, and which is what ended up happening so her complete contempt for him doesn't really jive. But likely she has other reasons and motivations.

 

[Teslerum]

People can become dominants later in life as explained in the game, and which is what ended up happening so her complete contempt for him doesn't really jive. But likely she has other reasons and motivations.

He can't though. There's (or should be) only one fire dominant at anyone time. Phoenix. With Joshua getting him that door closed, which is also why she dotted on Joshua.

Also are you sure that it isn't the opposite? Gotta admit that particular bit I don't remember, but what's the reason then that the archduke himself couldn't inherit Phoenix?

 

[Neolombax]

Was a bit skeptical before but after the demo, I'm very invested in the story. I like a good vengeance/redemption tale. Clive is easy to root for as a protagonist. Loved the darker tone, the end of the demo was pretty brutal. Played it entirely in graphics mode, and I didn't mind the framerate. Gameplay wise I liked the combat, seems like there's quite a few moves to play around with. Also tried the Eikon Challenge mode after the demo to mess around with a levelled up Clive, and I liked what I experienced. Only thing that annoyed me a bit is how I keep messing up dodging and using that special move. Apart from that, combat can be quite technical in that there's all these precision dodging and parrying enemy attacks, which feels pretty satisfying when pulled off. Will be most likely a day one for me, I really want to see where the story goes.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I feel like there's an elephant in the room. The cinematic gameplay looks cool. There's a part of me that wants to do more exploring. The level 14/15 boss wasn't hard. I have more than enough time to dodge.

There's something missing. It has all the parts of a good action game, but it feels compressed together. The combat flows together nicely, but I wonder what level 70+ Clive will be like compared to Level 16 Clive or whatever.

I totally understand the praise it's getting, but c'mon… I've felt more immersed exploring castles in Dark Souls III and Elden Ring. This is Square we are talking about. The Gods of JRPG. There's plenty more to see with the final game and it sounds fun. I just don't think it'll get GOTY unless it really does something off the rails later on.

 

[Katatonic]

Finished the demo. Plays exactly howI'd hoped it would after watching previews. Pre-ordered.

 

[Meicyn]

whoa! are you seriously saying that simply because real-life monster exist among us, that this somehow makes 'cartoonish villains' impossible? the 2 have existed together comfortably for as long as people have told each other stories & fairy tales...

at this point in time, there's no more reason to assume that clive's mom is so extraordinarily evil as to be capable of the horrors you describe than there is to think she's just, well, a 'cartoon villain'. especially what with the game fundamentally being a cartoon & all. we'll just have to see...

any representation of evil that's done in a simplistic, utilitarian, manipulative manner can absolutely be cartoonish...

Never said anything about cartoonish villains being impossible, just argued that she specifically isn't cartoonish.

Spoiler

We already have a good idea of her reason for disliking Clive due to him not manifesting as the Phoenix when the whole reason she was wed to the archduke is for that utilitarian purpose, bearing an heir. It makes complete sense that her view of the world is one of utilitarianism since that was how she herself was treated. Her firstborn was a failure in that regard, what if her secondborn had also not manifest? He is a living reminder of her first failure, and for years until Joshua's birth, she would have felt vulnerable in terms of status. Joshua's powers manifesting cemented for herself her value in the world she lives in. She likely was utterly miserable until Joshua's birth as the new dominant of fire.

Works of fiction can be incredibly shallow and inch-deep, but I do not find what I've seen so far in this game to fit that mold, even in the mere 2 hours I've had the pleasure of experiencing. Ascribing this game to being "fundamentally a cartoon" is some of the most extreme reductionism I've seen in awhile.

People can become dominants later in life as explained in the game, and which is what ended up happening so her complete contempt for him doesn't really jive. But likely she has other reasons and motivations.

Spoiler

Up until this moment in the game there has been only one eikon of fire at a time. The Lord Commander specifically expresses shock when Ifrit is revealed, exclaiming "second eikon of fire? That's impossible". Her contempt is consistent with what the in-game characters know about their world at that point. So for her, with Joshua being Phoenix, Clive is "worthless" because the perceived single slot for eikon of fire has been taken.

 

[Shifty1897]

Tell me Platinum worked on this without telling me Platinum worked on this:

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

People can become dominants later in life as explained in the game, and which is what ended up happening so her complete contempt for him doesn't really jive. But likely she has other reasons and motivations.

She doesn't know he is Ifrit. At lest not yet.

 

[Myths]

Overall, the game visually seems to be a natural evolution of XIV. However, there's this lack of AO/Shadow Maps on certain objects making the overall image appear vapid in lighting which is only more pronounced by the choice in color palette.

Other than that.

Some things that stood out to me:

Spoiler

Was Her Grace despising Joshua. The look of disdain, repugnance, and disowning her own was reflected remarkably well in the expressions. Through the facial expressions and mannerisms (turning her back against him), those small details nourish the emotions intended.

Further impressed by the Dilon battle though I'm not in the least a fan of QTE/Cinematic sequences. Following just shortly, after what appears to be the aftermath of the castle in rain, the soldier mortally wounding the beckoning soldier trapped under debris underscores how unrestrained the writers are in this entry.

The material used for the red garb on the King is impressive (likewise for Joshua). Major step up from generic model with some texture "baked" on.

• Sir Tyler, Sir Wade, Biggs and Wedge.
• The food on Joshua's plate, good job on the geometry and deformation of the sauce. I remember PS2/PS3 days where food was one glob of geometry poorly mapped/textured. Shout out RDR2 for doing an excellent job as well.
• Being able to add deathblows and a series of kicks while the enemy is nearly done for? I like this.
• One of my biggest complaints about action RPGs is the lack of force and impact on enemies (of course this could depend on weapon choices and the mechanics therein determine physics). As a mention on the side, FF13's stagger system delivered on the Knock-up capability. Here, I can see some attacks stagger (physically, not talking about the Will mechanic) the enemies posture which expresses to me the force of impact! I dislike when enemies, within reason, can knock-back or knock-up the player yet we can't exact the same revenge.
• Already expressed this next one, not a fan of the New Rodin font on the interface which goes against the Serif font used in other parts. Pick one. The latter seems more appropriate for the historical setting/era.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Someone said that the HDR is off in this game, check your settings its a pretty damn good implementation. All my shots.

 

[Danjin44]

Tell me Platinum worked on this without telling me Platinum worked on this:

Its sad most people judging the combat based young Clive section which serves as tutorial.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

I remember a whole bosses don't have hit animations discussion, shit

Clive knocks the ladies off their feet.

 

[Danjin44]

I remember a whole bosses don't have hit animations discussion, shit

Clive knocks the ladies off their feet.

Remember how most people lost their shit when they thought normal enemies were damage sponges, in the end all that crying over nothing.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Cant stop thinking about this game

Want to play the demo again, but I will replay the intro again once the full game comes out.

Havent felt excitement like this for a game in a very, very long time. I believe the last time was in 2020, after playing FF VII R and TLOU 2. That "wow, this is a special experience" kind of feeling.

Feels like the best PS5 title to date, imho.

Im getting the same feeling I had when playing GoW 2018

 

[Bernardougf]

I mean even the couple of BOSS FIGHTS. Zero challenge, no strong potions used. Dodged all the attacks I wanted easily, did all the attack variations the game presented. Plays like a mobile game.

Sounds like FFxV all over

 

[Elginer]

Those saying the graphics are bad, this is real time (my capture)

There are some instances where the lighting isn't so great, but they are minor. And when it hits right, it hits hard

There's something about this game's look that makes it look almost CGI in quality sometimes. I cant quite put my finger on it.

That "war" scene is perhaps the most impressive scene that I've seen on a game yet.

People tend to forget that this game doesnt have CG cutscenes. That shit is running on realtime. It's not even "in engine", its gameplay.

Dozens of NPCs with different animations, particles everywhere, eikons stepping on them, it's really impressive

Yep, I was shocked at the visuals. Feels proper nextgen; like no way could this run on old hardware. It's a marvel at times.

 

[TheKremlinBossMan]

Remember how most people lost their shit when they thought normal enemies were damage sponges, in the end all that crying over nothing.

I'm not going to admit how many hours I have in the demo but once you get the combat this shit is goofy. You can walk in a room full of mobs and blow them all up in one shot or style on them one by one. Love it.

 

[Balducci30]

I'm surprised people think it's gonna be as linear as the demo in the actual game - the footage we've seen indicates it opens up quite a bit.

I gotta say, it really impressed me. And only got better as it went on. Story has me hooked which is rare. Fun combat. Graphics looking like old FF cutscenes - the only thing that I'm slightly worried about it frequency of the cutscenes - but not that big of a deal. This is really feeling like something special.

Also the magic stuff is just way cooler than most games that use magic

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

the only thing that I'm slightly worried about it frequency of the cutscenes - but not that big of a deal. This is really feeling like something special.

This is a game where I'm not bothered by cutscenes because they are so damn good and that's kinda what an RPG is known for, only instead of scrolling through text boxes we get amazing cutscenes instead

I hate slow walk and talk sections, but this is totally different. The pacing isn't a slow slog. It's fantastic, fast paced, epic, with great writing

 

[lyan]

Not at all lol.

They just let you use normal abilities, spells and stuff. They are not overpowered or anything. They are just like any normal skill and spell in a FF. And normal attacks don't do nearly enough damage to just get on the game with it.

Or did you play FF games with just the attack option, and never used spells, and beated the games?

I mean how you charge the ATB bar is just the same as how you charge the super metre to use things like ex tatsu/shoryuken etc, nothing to do with overpowered or anything.

 

[semiconscious]

Never said anything about cartoonish villains being impossible, just argued that she specifically isn't cartoonish.

Spoiler

We already have a good idea of her reason for disliking Clive due to him not manifesting as the Phoenix when the whole reason she was wed to the archduke is for that utilitarian purpose, bearing an heir. It makes complete sense that her view of the world is one of utilitarianism since that was how she herself was treated. Her firstborn was a failure in that regard, what if her secondborn had also not manifest? He is a living reminder of her first failure, and for years until Joshua's birth, she would have felt vulnerable in terms of status. Joshua's powers manifesting cemented for herself her value in the world she lives in. She likely was utterly miserable until Joshua's birth as the new dominant of fire.

you do appreciate the fact that the concept of a manipulative, conniving woman (aka 'femme fatale'), a woman capable of both marrying into power/prestige & of betrayal, is a particularly well-worn trope, & that the reason for her favoritism of one son & dislike for the other is both incredibly obvious & easily understandable. now,

Spoiler

those vulnerable/miserable years you mention? right or wrong, that's you bringing color to the story, assuming & filling in aspects that the story itself never directly refers to. you're inferring this. in the same way that you or i could infer things about cruella deville...

in other words: nothing you mention, imo, rules her out as a 'cartoon villain' in any way (& absolutely, positively has nothing whatsoever to do with chains, excrement, lampshades, or any of those other elements included in your laundry list of real-life villain nightmare horrors)...

so, yeah, we're gonna have to agree to disagree, & wait for the game to potentially clarify things a bit...

 

[CrustyBritches]

Tell me Platinum worked on this without telling me Platinum worked on this:

People need to see this. The Titan abilities in particular are fucking awesome. That multi-block is so satisfying. So we get awesome combat on top of a mature, medieval storyline that's hitting all the right notes even in a 2hr prologue. Not to mention god-tier OST.

Only downside is that playing the demo and then getting cut off is causing me major withdrawals.

 

[rofif]

Shadows look like that throughout the whole thing - so unless the entire game is somehow prerendered, they're realtime.

I can't stop looking at those free shots I posted. I wonder if df will recognise what is going on here. We never seen graphics like this. I am not saying it's higher fidelity than tlou2 or hfw… but it looks like cgi. Around the eyes, soft shadows. It's crazy.
Fires I could switch around modes and maybe compare if frame rate changes in those moments. If not, maybe it is pre-rendered

 

[MagiusNecros]

played the demo:

Based on your review it does sound like the FF14 formula at work. But Yoshi P made this game and took half the FF14 staff to make this game so that doesn't surprise me that similar plot progression motifs and encounter design is very similar. Having things be very easy or very hard with no middleground.

I assume the very hard is going to be locked behind Hard mode and will require you beat the story so you can play it again. The WoL(Meteor) in FF14 also has no personality and some of the plot progression does have characters forget to use their brain for the sake of plot.

Edit: I want to say that your concern about the combat being barebones without all the other unlocked abilities is also a FF14 thing. Without your whole kit combat won't be as good as it should be. It only comes together once you have all your toys.

Thank you for the highly detailed experience. It's very informative.

 

[rofif]

Cant stop thinking about this game

Want to play the demo again, but I will replay the intro again once the full game comes out.

Havent felt excitement like this for a game in a very, very long time. I believe the last time was in 2020, after playing FF VII R and TLOU 2. That "wow, this is a special experience" kind of feeling.

I replayed the demo yesterday as I invited my dad to see this shit. He really was stunned.
I also keep thinking about it and heat the music in my head. I didn't think about new game before sleeping and right after at least since Elden ring. But with Elden ring, all I was thinking about outside the game was pure stress how am I going to beat some boss lol.
Here I continue to be thinking about the graphics, music, scale and combat and everything. It's a strange game kinda out of nowhere despite having hours of trailers before. The budget must be insane.

To those saying it was too easy? Try eikon mode and the end boss there. It's nuts.

 

[Danjin44]

I replayed the demo yesterday as I invited my dad to see this shit. He really was stunned.
I also keep thinking about it and heat the music in my head. I didn't think about new game before sleeping and right after at least since Elden ring. But with Elden ring, all I was thinking about outside the game was pure stress how am I going to beat some boss lol.
Here I continue to be thinking about the graphics, music, scale and combat and everything. It's a strange game kinda out of nowhere despite having hours of trailers before. The budget must be insane.

To those saying it was too easy? Try eikon mode and the end boss there. It's nuts.

I still remember how some people argued about the character models looked liked PS2 game........

 

[rofif]

I still remember how some people argued about the character models looked liked PS2 game........

They did in the first trailer. That minister guy still looks like shit