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Fire Emblem Awakening |OT| Lord of the RNG

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Draxal

Member
Dumb question time, does underdog count ilevel, and how does it work as say a max level manakete vs say a max level paladin.

I've never really played much of FE except for a bit of the one with Ike in it. I'm loving this game. The gameplay is fun but so far I'm most enjoying the relationship aspects, because I'm making as many mismatched marriages as I can. Oh, you're a prissy aristocrat who refers to people as "commoners"? Enjoy being married to the hick villager. You have a fear of women? I think you'd fit best with the woman who will torment you with statues of women and female monkeys to see just where your phobia's boundaries are. It's very amusing.

Ya, I married Lon'qu to Miriel just because that support chain was pretty fun.
 
Plus the game has wind magic, which hurts their benefit against flying units. Wind is better against wyverns and pegasus units aren't hard to kill without bows anyway.

Also doesn't help that you've got four classes that can use bows that aren't locked into them. I'd rather pack a bow on an assassin and use it here than there than have a unit dedicated to it.

And Virion cannot become an assassin or warrior. Noire can go assassin, but only with the right father. So even with those dedicated archers, you'll have to abandon the bow if you want to continue to grow them. And the Bow Knight isn't worth leveling up in thanks to its poor skills.
 

johnsmith

remember me
The game needs bows that can attack adjacent enemies. Archers are really useless when almost every class has access to ranged attacks.
 
I think archers are really bad in this in general, due to flat terrains and lack of shove.

Archers have always been useless in every Fire Emblem so that's to be expected. IS doesn't seem to know what to do with the archer class.

This was taken to a whole new level in Fire Emblem 6 where you have nomads, who were mounted and could eventually use swords, but didn't suffer any effective damage weaknesses against horseslayers. You'd think someone at IS would think "oh wait, there is literally no point in snipers if mounted archers do the same job only better" but they obviously didn't.
 

Draxal

Member
The game needs bows that can attack adjacent enemies. Archers are really useless when almost every class has access to ranged attacks.

They're actually decent bottleneck tanks for that reason, they can hold bottlenecks but not clear through them, which is the problem alot of other classes have.

Counter also helps in this regard.

Anyway, for hard I really don't think classes matter that much except for limited cases (merc/hero for armsthrift/sol, sorceror).

:lol I'm assumimg that was Tharja?
Miriel.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Archers should have more range.

If archers/snipers had 2-3 range exclusively with 2-4 longbows or something, I'd probably make more use of them. Gimp the other bow wielding classes and keep them at 2 range.

With a range of just 2 while every other weapon class has stuff that can attack at 1-2, it's just not worth it.
 

Rarutos

Member
If archers/snipers had 2-3 range exclusively with 2-4 longbows or something, I'd probably make more use of them. Gimp the other bow wielding classes and keep them at 2 range.

With a range of just 2 while every other weapon class has stuff that can attack at 1-2, it's just not worth it.

I thought Longbows were exclusive to Archers and Snipers?
 

Chrom

Junior Member
Archers have always been useless in every Fire Emblem so that's to be expected. IS doesn't seem to know what to do with the archer class.

This was taken to a whole new level in Fire Emblem 6 where you have nomads, who were mounted and could eventually use swords, but didn't suffer any effective damage weaknesses against horseslayers. You'd think someone at IS would think "oh wait, there is literally no point in snipers if mounted archers do the same job only better" but they obviously didn't.

What about Fire Emblem Gaiden.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Titania is great for hard mode, she lets you clear chapters quickly to maximize BEXP gain. She's the best unit for half of the game and remains good for the entirely of the game.

Agreed

I think she's a descendant of Seth. The red hair, paladin status and similar strength must run the run in the family.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
If archers/snipers had 2-3 range exclusively with 2-4 longbows or something, I'd probably make more use of them. Gimp the other bow wielding classes and keep them at 2 range.

With a range of just 2 while every other weapon class has stuff that can attack at 1-2, it's just not worth it.

Or make the other classes do half damage with bows.
 
The problem is that even if you increase their range, their only purpose is to finish off units you really want dead like that killer weapon asshole on 1 HP. Archers have some utility in the early game where you have some difficulty finishing off units in one turn but that's absolutely not a problem where blessed late game units can pretty much clear maps by themselves. The idea behind the archer class is obsolete because Fire Emblem is Fire Emblem.

Whatever position they hold means one less unit. And really, you'd take the extra unit every time unless you don't have a decent extra unit to field.
 

johnsmith

remember me
They're actually decent bottleneck tanks for that reason, they can hold bottlenecks but not clear through them, which is the problem alot of other classes have.

This is true. I've had to restart way to many times because my units are TOO good at killing, and end up fighting 4 or 5 enemies on the enemy's turn and end up dying.
 

Draxal

Member
Archers have always been useless in every Fire Emblem so that's to be expected. IS doesn't seem to know what to do with the archer class.

This was taken to a whole new level in Fire Emblem 6 where you have nomads, who were mounted and could eventually use swords, but didn't suffer any effective damage weaknesses against horseslayers. You'd think someone at IS would think "oh wait, there is literally no point in snipers if mounted archers do the same job only better" but they obviously didn't.

In Binding Sword/Blazing Sword snipers had the crit bonus which really trumped nomads.
 

NeonZ

Member
Personally, I used Virion throughout my Hard playthrough and I didn't think he was useless. By the time other units could promote to classes with bows as secondary weapons, they'd be limited to bronze bows, which would make their attacks fairly weak even against Pegasus Knights, making them unable to one shot them. Considering how most times ending their turn with their melee weapons was a plain better option, having a trained archer since the start was a really good addition to my team.

If you're talking about grinding and such, then, really, it makes no difference. Even a maxed out bow knight can break the story chapters here. Sniper is in a disadvantage though, I guess, due to lack of counter attacks. I do wish they had gotten better skills though. Bowfaire is fine, but "+20 hit" for a promoted unit is pathetic.

This was taken to a whole new level in Fire Emblem 6 where you have nomads, who were mounted and could eventually use swords, but didn't suffer any effective damage weaknesses against horseslayers. You'd think someone at IS would think "oh wait, there is literally no point in snipers if mounted archers do the same job only better" but they obviously didn't.

Considering how many things in FE6 had obvious counterparts in FE1/3, I guess they were going for something like the Archer/Hunter duality from those games. The one playable hunter had better movement and promoted to a horse class, while archers had more limited movement and only promoted to the standard sniper without any special advantages. However, that was balanced by the one hunter and their pre-promoted versions having fairly bad growths compared to the playable archers. In FE6, they apparently forgot to balance their stats to make up for that (or did they? Its been a while since I've played FE6, I can't remember how the units compare).
 
In Binding Sword/Blazing Sword snipers had the crit bonus which really trumped nomads.

They don't, or at least they didn't in Binding Sword. Only Berserkers and Swordmasters got that insane 30% critical bonus. In that game, you'd just take a billion mages anyway because no one in the game has any resistance so you can potentially one hit kill things with Ray or Lilina.

Then if you play on Hard Mode, Shin gets stupid hard mode bonuses so he one turns everyone so who needs critical hits? The hardier units, like wyvern lords, are weak against arrows and effective damage was 3x so someone is going to die, critical or not.

This actually shows the crux of the problem. Its really a one note class and when you've got people who are just as good at killing things, do you need a one note class?

Considering how many things in FE6 had obvious counterparts in FE1/3, I guess they were going for something like the Archer/Hunter duality from those games. The one playable hunter had better movement and promoted to a horse class, while archers had more limited movement and only promoted to the standard sniper without any special advantages. However, that was balanced by the one hunter and their pre-promoted versions having fairly bad growths compared to the playable archers. In FE6, they apparently forgot to balance their stats to make up for that (or did they? Its been a while since I've played FE6, I can't remember how the units compare).

Yeah, the FE1/3 <-> FE6 comparison would explain why no one in the game has any resistance. I think even the growths for the starting units are basically the same. Anyway no one in the game really has any good growths and Shin has decent growths in the grand scheme of things.

Balance isn't really something that belongs in many Fire Emblems, especially FE6. Every map is a seize map and a lot of maps have turn limits. So you want everyone to move Roy's ass to the throne as fast as possible and the best way to do this is to have everyone be on horses.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Personally, I used Virion throughout my Hard playthrough and I didn't think he was useless. By the time other units could promote to bow using class, they'd be limited to bronze bows, which would make their attacks fairly weak even against Pegasus Knights, making them unable to one shot them. Having a trained archer since the start was a really good addition to my team.

If you're talking about grinding and such, then, really, it makes no difference. Even a maxed out bow knight can break the story chapters here. Sniper is in a disadvantage though, I guess, due to lack of counter attacks.



Considering how many things in FE6 had obvious counterparts in FE1/3, I guess they were going for something like the Archer/Hunter duality from those games. The one playable hunter had better movement and promoted to a horse class, while archers had more limited movement and couldn't promote. However, that was balanced by the one hunter and their pre-promoted versions having fairly bad growths compared to the playable archers. In FE6, they apparently forgot to balance their stats to make up for that (or did they? Its been a while since I've played FE6, I can't remember how the units compare).

I am just annoyed they made it where Snipers can only use Longbows and now Bow Knights. That's so cheap. But, when Virion promoted, he became infinitely better. The mobility gave him that ability to snipe fliers with ease. Give him a brave/killer bow and it was all over.
 
Archers would be more useful if there was more varied terrain to limit movement and no pair up.

Pair up is too good to not use, so you end up with your units covering less space than they usually would which means less cover for archers. Also, no crossbows or Double Bow.
 

Draxal

Member
They don't, or at least they didn't in Binding Sword. Only Berserkers and Swordmasters got that insane 30% critical bonus. In that game, you'd just take a billion mages anyway because no one in the game has any resistance so you can potentially one hit kill things with Ray or Lilina.

Then if you play on Hard Mode, Shin gets stupid hard mode bonuses so he one turns everyone so who needs critical hits? The hardier units, like wyvern lords, are weak against arrows and effective damage was 3x so someone is going to die, critical or not.

Ya, I was wrong about Binding Sword, but I'm pretty sure it was in later games. In all honesty the skill system throws class balance out of wack in this game, swordmaster has great skills but the class sucks compared to assassin otherwise.
 
Ya, I was wrong about Binding Sword, but I'm pretty sure it was in Blazing Sword and later games. In all honesty the skill system throws class balance out of wack in this game, swordmaster has great skills but the class sucks compared to assassin otherwise.

Nah, Snipers got nothing in Blazing Sword, got Sure Hit in Sacred Stones which was useless since the enemies had no avoid. Only in Path of Radiance did they get the critical bonus and Deadeye. They should have given Snipers an attacking skill in this game or at least the range bonus.
 

Magnus

Member
Chapter 4 on Normal. Bored out of my mind. This is my first Fire Emblem.

I'm not sure if it's the ho-hum story, or the battle visuals (I've got battle animations turned off for speed to preserve my sanity, so I'm just left with the zoomed out view of battle which is obviously less than exciting to watch). Kind of wish things struck a middle ground visually so that I could see units animate their combat without the cumbersome transitions to separate battle scenes.

Just not feeling this. Should I press forward for something exciting that might change my view toward the game? It's still early I guess.
 

Draxal

Member
Nah, Snipers got nothing in Blazing Sword, got Sure Hit in Sacred Stones which was useless since the enemies had no avoid. Only in Path of Radiance did they get the critical bonus and Deadeye. They should have given Snipers an attacking skill in this game or at least the range bonus.

Ya, I don't know why ,my memory is so faulty, I just remember Rebecca destroying things in that game (and yeah I forgot about good old ballistas too). In all honesty, I just wish they added soldiers/halberdiers back and made it so berserkers/swordmasters/snipers/ and halberdiers got an inate crit bonus, because with a swordmaster right now ... it's just not worth staying in the class after hitting 15, you'd better of just going right to assassin right afterwards.

Chapter 4 on Normal. Bored out of my mind. This is my first Fire Emblem.

I'm not sure if it's the ho-hum story, or the battle visuals (I've got battle animations turned off for speed to preserve my sanity, so I'm just left with the zoomed out view of battle which is obviously less than exciting to watch). Kind of wish things struck a middle ground visually so that I could see units animate their combat without the cumbersome transitions to separate battle scenes.

Just not feeling this. Should I press forward for something exciting that might change my view toward the game? It's still early I guess.

Game is to easy on normal, you should try hard. However, the genre's not for everybody and I think it's just more likely that your opinion wont change too much.
 

NeonZ

Member
Ya, I was wrong about Binding Sword, but I'm pretty sure it was in later games. In all honesty the skill system throws class balance out of wack in this game, swordmaster has great skills but the class sucks compared to assassin otherwise.

The odd thing is that the promotion bonuses for them are actually rather balanced. Assassins have +1 HP, +1 str, -2 mag, +2skl, -1spd, -1 def, -3 res compared to Swordmasters, but then you get to their caps and that spd penalty evaporates and they get +2 str and +4 skill compared to the Swordmaster's caps. Meanwhile, Swordmasters get +4 mag, +8 res and... +2 def.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Hmm. Question about the final boss.

My Chrom is wimpy and can't handle the fight, even with optimal pair ups. He does poor damage and has an abysmal hit rate. Even if I do keep him alive against the boss, I can't win before the reinforcements around the boss show up and kill him.

Didn't get to try before Chrom died, but can Lucina's Falchion meaningfully hurt the final boss? She's far stronger than my Chrom is, so that would be an option.
 
Considering how many things in FE6 had obvious counterparts in FE1/3, I guess they were going for something like the Archer/Hunter duality from those games. The one playable hunter had better movement and promoted to a horse class, while archers had more limited movement and only promoted to the standard sniper without any special advantages. However, that was balanced by the one hunter and their pre-promoted versions having fairly bad growths compared to the playable archers. In FE6, they apparently forgot to balance their stats to make up for that (or did they? Its been a while since I've played FE6, I can't remember how the units compare).

Sue and Shin were beasts last I remember.

Chapter 4 on Normal. Bored out of my mind. This is my first Fire Emblem.

I'm not sure if it's the ho-hum story, or the battle visuals (I've got battle animations turned off for speed to preserve my sanity, so I'm just left with the zoomed out view of battle which is obviously less than exciting to watch). Kind of wish things struck a middle ground visually so that I could see units animate their combat without the cumbersome transitions to separate battle scenes.

Just not feeling this. Should I press forward for something exciting that might change my view toward the game? It's still early I guess.

If you turn on battle animations, you can hold A to speed up the battles, if that helps.
 
Chapter 4 on Normal. Bored out of my mind. This is my first Fire Emblem.

I'm not sure if it's the ho-hum story, or the battle visuals (I've got battle animations turned off for speed to preserve my sanity, so I'm just left with the zoomed out view of battle which is obviously less than exciting to watch). Kind of wish things struck a middle ground visually so that I could see units animate their combat without the cumbersome transitions to separate battle scenes.

Just not feeling this. Should I press forward for something exciting that might change my view toward the game? It's still early I guess.
Definitely try Hard mode, but the story never improves imo.

I kind of agree about the animations. Radiant Dawn(wii FE) had on-map battle animations and it was awesome, but the cutaway animations in Awakening are short enough and there are a lot of amusing soundbites.
 

GeekyDad

Member
Hmm. Question about the final boss.

My Chrom is wimpy and can't handle the fight, even with optimal pair ups. He does poor damage and has an abysmal hit rate. Even if I do keep him alive against the boss, I can't win before the reinforcements around the boss show up and kill him.

Didn't get to try before Chrom died, but can Lucina's Falchion meaningfully hurt the final boss? She's far stronger than my Chrom is, so that would be an option.

You can attack the final boss with whomever you want. The choice to use MU is given after you actually lop off the final bit of HP from the boss, if I recall correctly. Surprised, though, your Chrom is too weak, as mine was ridiculously OP. In any case, the reinforcements for this battle are unlike previous battles. They don't stop coming until the boss is defeated.
 

Tunavi

Banned
Chapter 4 on Normal. Bored out of my mind. This is my first Fire Emblem.

I'm not sure if it's the ho-hum story, or the battle visuals (I've got battle animations turned off for speed to preserve my sanity, so I'm just left with the zoomed out view of battle which is obviously less than exciting to watch). Kind of wish things struck a middle ground visually so that I could see units animate their combat without the cumbersome transitions to separate battle scenes.

Just not feeling this. Should I press forward for something exciting that might change my view toward the game? It's still early I guess.
Play Hard/Classic.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
You can attack the final boss with whomever you want. The choice to use MU is given after you actually lop off the final bit of HP from the boss, if I recall correctly. Surprised, though, your Chrom is too weak, as mine was ridiculously OP. In any case, the reinforcements for this battle are unlike previous battles. They don't stop coming until the boss is defeated.

The problem I had is that nobody could really deal any damage. My character with the second highest strength on my team with a 14MT sword was looking at dealing 8 damage.

If Lucina's Falchion is "blessed" like Chrom's that would help a lot. Going to try that later.

Edit: And my avatar could only hit for 2 damage with Rexcalibur, 0 with swords, so I wasn't even worried about that :lol

EditEdit: And to answer my own thought, it does look like the Parallel Falchion gets 3x MT against Grima, so that's probably how I'm going to beat it.
 

PAULINK

I microwave steaks.
Loving this game but man, it really makes me want to have another Advance wars. When I lose a unit in advance wars, I'm just like well i'll just make 5 more! In fire emblem it's so stressful (since I'm playing classic, just HAD to). I know it's all about planning everything out but man I hate restarting a chapter because of one mistake :(

But enough crying, how many chapters did Japan get? Want to size up how much dlc will cost in total.
 

Mr. Fix

Member
Loving this game but man, it really makes me want to have another Advance wars. When I lose a unit in advance wars, I'm just like well i'll just make 5 more! In fire emblem it's so stressful (since I'm playing classic, just HAD to). I know it's all about planning everything out but man I hate restarting a chapter because of one mistake :(

But enough crying, how many chapters did Japan get? Want to size up how much dlc will cost in total.

Japan got 25 pieces, and we're looking at around 50 bucks if they keep them in $6 bundles.

And yes, I want my Advance Wars 3DS. ._.
 
Playing on Hard/Classic. It's been a while since I played FE - about 2 years, during my last PoR/RD play through. It took me a bit to get my groove back (I restarted Chapter 2 three times due to silly mistakes making me lose characters) but things are going much more smoothly now.
 
Are people letting their characters stay dead in Classic, or just using it as a way to play the game a specific way? Personally, I'm soft resetting whenever a character dies, and while I don't feel great about it, I'd feel worse with a dead character. I wonder if I should have just swallowed my pride and played on Casual instead, but even with resets, Classic changes the way I would have played enough that I think it's worth playing on Classic.

I let characters die early in XCOM, Valkyria Chronicles, and FF Tactics, but after I finished the battle where I lost my first character in FE, I thought about it for a while and decided to reset.
 

Drago

Member
Are people letting their characters stay dead in Classic, or just using it as a way to play the game a specific way? Personally, I'm soft resetting whenever a character dies, and while I don't feel great about it, I'd feel worse with a dead character.
I never let anyone die in Classic. No one can be left behind :]

I do want to try a normal/classic run where if someone dies they stay dead (unless Chrom or MU dies in which a restart is necessary) but I won't do that immediately after I finish my current hard/classic run.
 

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
Are people letting their characters stay dead in Classic, or just using it as a way to play the game a specific way? Personally, I'm soft resetting whenever a character dies, and while I don't feel great about it, I'd feel worse with a dead character.

I soft reset too. Just habit from all the other Fire Emblems. I take anybody dying as me failing the mission basically. I don't really feel bad about it.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Are people letting their characters stay dead in Classic, or just using it as a way to play the game a specific way? Personally, I'm soft resetting whenever a character dies, and while I don't feel great about it, I'd feel worse with a dead character. I wonder if I should have just swallowed my pride and played on Casual instead, but even with resets, Classic changes the way I would have played enough that I think it's worth playing on Classic.

I let characters die early in XCOM, Valkyria Chronicles, and FF Tactics, but after I finished the battle where I lost my first character in FE, I thought about it for a while and decided to reset.

Odds are if someone dies you'll be failing the mission anyway. Well depending on when it happens. If it's a few moves in then you're fucked, if it's right before the end you're probably fine.
 
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