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Fire Emblem Community Thread | Together We Ride

Fire Emblem 1 is amazing. Hector was really great in that one.

2 was ok, but I didn't really fall in love with Ephraim or Erica.
:lol I had a feeling someone would do this

wait a minute, FE6 has all the waifus, are we sure this is actually different
I didn't just play Fire Emblem 1, I attempted to do a semi-blind (semi because I had played through FE3 Book 1 prior) iron man run of FE1. I stopped because the inventory nonsense in that game lead to Navarre dying with the Mercurius Blade before I could give it to Marth, which basically made me chicken out when the time came to fight Camus and his Silver Sword and Lance squad of Destruction.

Fire Emblem 1 has a lot of weird quirks, most of which I'm glad don't exist anymore, but there was definitely a certain amount of logic put into it and its game balance. For example, Magic Water always felt silly and pointless in most of the newer FEs to me (note that I've never done Hard Mode in an FE game yet), but in FE1, you can completely understand why they have it around and it's strategic usefulness. Magic users have no magic growth and can only improve their magical prowess by promoting, while almost no unit in FE1 has resistance as a base stat or growth (including pegasus knights, them being able to resist magic wasn't a thing until later). A Staff or potion that gives you 7 Resistance becomes a very useful thing to keep around in these circumstances.

gotta dodge those status staves man!
(then again Barrier, but I don't think we drag around staff wielding chumps for that in Tellius)
 
I actually forgot that Resistance is used for status dodges. I stand somewhat corrected then. Still, at least your units can actually have naturally good resistance in most FE games, something that's almost impossible in FE1.
 
I actually forgot that Resistance is used for status dodges. I stand somewhat corrected then. Still, at least your units can actually have naturally good resistance in most FE games, something that's almost impossible in FE1.

ehhhh play through Binding Blade or Radiant Dawn on hard mode and say that again

also, in Thracia 776 it's even better, cause magic and resistance are the same stat so it boosts offense too
 
ehhhh play through Binding Blade or Radiant Dawn on hard mode and say that again

also, in Thracia 776 it's even better, cause magic and resistance are the same stat so it boosts offense too

I really do need to do more Hard Mode play. I agree with Thracia though, Magic Water is very potent there.
 

Firemind

Member
FE6 has piss poor resistance growths unless you're a magic user. FE7 and thereon improved defense and resistance growths drastically. dat handholding.

however, upon reflection I'll say that Roy and Eliwood are about equally shit, it must run in the family
At least we seem to agree on something! (namely Eliwood being shit.)
 

Tommy DJ

Member
Probably not the one who has access to the best weapon in the game. It's ranged, grants +5 defense and resistance, auto criticals dragons and mamkutes, has the ability to heal 30 HP and only has a weight of 8 resulting in no speed loss. Good luck doubling Nergal and the Fire Dragon with Durandal, Eliwood. :lol

The Binding Blade is definitely the best weapon in the game due to its 1-2 range and defense bonus but...
  • Manaketes are huge chumps in this game. Everything kills them.
  • It only has 20 uses.
  • The AS loss from the divine weapons is actually pretty low most of the time and, outside a handful of bosses like Gel and Henning, you generally have way more speed than the enemy that some AS loss is not an issue.

The problem with Roy is that he promotes before the last two chapters against Bern. His promotion bonuses are good but that doesn't change the fact that his offensive capability, on average, is going to be weak (13 strength is what you expect from 20/0 Roy).

So Roy spends 95% of the game sitting in saddlebags because every chapter is a seize map and Roy is sword locked so he's not going anywhere near lance units.

There are other average lords but they have their uses (Leif with the light sword) or can be ignored mostly (Eliwood since Hector's Story exists and FE7 has more varied map conditions). Roy doesn't really have much use in the game and isn't all that special after he gets his defining weapon, which is why he's the worst lord. He's a pretty much a liability without the Binding Blade and is dependent on the rest of the army to dump his ass on the throne.

Edit: If we're talking about whether or not Eliwood is worse, he's not good either due to his shitty bases. But Roy shares the same bases as his father and exists in a game where enemy units, on a whole, have way better stats. Eliwood can also get a horse, which lets him serve as a utility unit at the very least. He's actually one of the few units that can rescue a promoted Hector funnily enough.

If we're basing unit performance on their ability against Nergal and the Dragon, no one comes out of it looking very good. You're pretty much left with Athos, Canas, and Hector.
 

Firemind

Member
The Binding Blade is definitely the best weapon in the game due to its 1-2 range and defense bonus but...
  • Manaketes are huge chumps in this game. Everything kills them.
  • It only has 20 uses.
  • The AS loss from the divine weapons is actually pretty low most of the time and, outside a handful of bosses like Gel and Henning, you generally have way more speed than the enemy that some AS loss is not an issue.

The problem with Roy is that he promotes before the last two chapters against Bern. His promotion bonuses are good but that doesn't change the fact that his offensive capability, on average, is going to be weak (13 strength is what you expect from 20/0 Roy).

So Roy spends 95% of the game sitting in saddlebags because every chapter is a seize map and Roy is sword locked so he's not going anywhere near lance units.

There are other average lords but they have their uses (Leif with the light sword) or can be ignored mostly (Eliwood since Hector's Story exists and FE7 has more varied map conditions). Roy doesn't really have much use in the game and isn't all that special after he gets his defining weapon, which is why he's the worst lord.
'Use' is kind of misleading. You have to use Roy to complete a chapter and more importantly unlock the gaiden chapters. Also, he fights Zephiel and Idoun pretty well. What I like about FE6 is that you have to carefully plan and put Roy near the throne to end the chapter without him dying to get a high tactics rank. He is what I call an active unit.

In FE7, Eliwood has better stats on average, but not all chapters require him to seize the throne. The only thing he's doing in most chapters is maybe attack a few times and be irrelevant for the rest of the chapter because of its measly 7 movement and average stats, which lets him survive a few hits. He is what I call an inactive unit.
 

elty

Member
If you got through RD with no trouble, you'll probably be fine with Awakening. Is there anything specific you want to know?

Like character to avoid, character to build on (because he comes out great at the end or you are forced to use him)

turn limitation of any

Secret recruitable character

Is it still better to change class at 20?
 
'Use' is kind of misleading. You have to use Roy to complete a chapter and more importantly unlock the gaiden chapters. Also, he fights Zephiel and Idoun pretty well. What I like about FE6 is that you have to carefully plan and put Roy near the throne to end the chapter without him dying to get a high tactics rank. He is what I call an active unit.

In FE7, Eliwood has better stats on average, but not all chapters require him to seize the throne. The only thing he's doing in most chapters is maybe attack a few times and be irrelevant for the rest of the chapter because of its measly 7 movement and average stats, which lets him survive a few hits. He is what I call an inactive unit.

ok once again, the fact that he is required for progressing the game does not count towards his favor, else we're back to all lords being auto-#1 (well, except Chrom, ayy lmao)

and sure he fights Idoun fairly well (base Roy 3HKOs lol), but I'm not seeing it with Zephiel, and just because someone is carrying Roy all over the place doesn't mean he's actually doing anything (at least not until after B O O T S B O Y S aka chapter 21, where he doesn't have to be carried around any more)

If that's his criteria, Roy is a better lord than Ike.

pretty sure Roy is the best lord in the whole series, as long as we use # of potential pairings as our criteria

Kappa
 

Tommy DJ

Member
ok once again, the fact that he is required for progressing the game does not count towards his favor, else we're back to all lords being auto-#1

and sure he fights Idoun fairly well (base Roy 3HKOs lol), but I'm not seeing it with Zephiel, and just because someone is carrying Roy all over the place doesn't mean he's actually doing anything

Seriously I don't get his point. Roy before promotion is a goddamn liability on hard mode. I don't see how the challenge of getting him to the throne is a point in his favour. Its a point in the game's favour for providing a challenge but doesn't change the fact that Roy is a unit that doesn't do a whole lot besides sit in Miledy and Tate's saddlebags. If that's his criteria, Roy is a better lord than Ike.

I also don't get why he brings up performance against the final bosses. Everyone murders Idoun at this stage and Roy is definitely not taking on Zephiel without some stat boosters or 5 level ups on average so he can double like the rest of the army.
 
you know, it really sucks that only FE4-7 had a ranking system

why didn't they keep it?

FE12 got a Ranking system but getting an AAA rank was pretty easy even on Lunatic mode (beating this is already a challenge though)

For Roy, the fact that he could seize throne is more a flaw than a advantage since it hinders your performance and makes every map a little bit harder.

Eliwood sucks as much as his son, must be bad to be a red haired Lord.

Marth was not really great in FE11 but he was actually good in FE12. Didn't play the vanilla games though.
 

gaiages

Banned
Like character to avoid, character to build on (because he comes out great at the end or you are forced to use him)

turn limitation of any

Secret recruitable character

Is it still better to change class at 20?
I'm not a super master at the game, but I'll try to answer a few of these~

- Most characters have decent growth rates, I believe, and you can grind in between chapters, so use who you want; if you don't like the way someone turns out it's not too hard to build up a new character with the Pairing system (or whatever it's called). Donnel is the typical weak unit that turns into an absolute powerhouse if you baby him.
- Not sure what you mean, sorry.
- I don't really remember any, actually.
- I'd still recommend it, but with the Second Seal and the ability to change classes and restarting at the new class at level 1, you can mitigate stat losses of promoting earlier than 20 by changing classes and leveling again.

Hope this helps a bit :3
 
366be024-s.jpg

*Casually posts maybe the only Chrom figure we'll ever get* X'P
 

Firemind

Member
ok once again, the fact that he is required for progressing the game does not count towards his favor, else we're back to all lords being auto-#1 (well, except Chrom, ayy lmao)
If that's his criteria, Roy is a better lord than Ike.
lol again nobody said Roy is the best unit in the game. stop putting words into my mouth pls.

Best/worst is subjective. More/less useful is less subjective. Roy has to be used every chapter. Eliwood doesn't. Ergo Roy is more useful than Eliwood. Eliwood could have made up for it with battle prowess, but unfortunately he's decisively below average, partly because of his late promotion. After promotion, he has nothing going for him. His movement is worse than a paladin and he starts with an E in lances.

As for recruiting, this is also objectively in Roy's favour.
Roy: Sue, Cath x3, Zealot/Treck/Noah, Geese, Klein (or Clarine), Bartre (or Fir), Hugh, Dayan (or Sue/Shin). Clarine and Milady aren't included.
Eliwood: Legault (or Lyn), Heath (or Hector, Lyn, Ninian), Hawkeye, Karel (or Lyn) or Harken (or five others), Nino (or Lyn), Vaida.

For Roy, the fact that he could seize throne is more a flaw than a advantage since it hinders your performance and makes every map a little bit harder.
For chess, the fact that the game is over when the king is mated is more a flaw than an advantage since it hinders your performance and makes every move a little bit harder. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Nobody will say the king is the worst chess piece just because it doesn't do much throughout a game.

The chess analogy is pretty apt. The king can't promote, just like Roy for most of the game. The king is useless in the early stages and starts to shine during the endgame. Whereas Eliwood is more like one of the pieces on the last row in checkers. Middling throughout.
 
lol again nobody said Roy is the best unit in the game. stop putting words into my mouth pls.

Best/worst is subjective. More/less useful is less subjective. Roy has to be used every chapter. Eliwood doesn't. Ergo Roy is more useful than Eliwood. Eliwood could have made up for it with battle prowess, but unfortunately he's decisively below average, partly because of his late promotion. After promotion, he has nothing going for him. His movement is worse than a paladin and he starts with an E in lances.

putting words into your mouth? your logic is terrible

Roy has to be used every chapter. Ike doesn't in Path of Radiance. Ergo Roy is more useful than PoR Ike. Ike could have made up for it with battle prowess, but unfortunately all the mounted units, Boyd, and Nephenee can already destroy anything regardless, and his late promotion doesn't help. After promotion, he still has nothing going for him. He's not mounted and he still remains swordlocked, which means no 1-2 range until obtaining Ragnell unless you decide to rig magic for the Sonic Sword.

and if you're just going to say "lol it's subjective", then there's no point
 
For chess, the fact that the game is over when the king is mated is more a flaw than an advantage since it hinders your performance and makes every move a little bit harder. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Nobody will say the king is the worst chess piece just because it doesn't do much throughout a game.

The chess analogy is pretty apt. The king can't promote, just like Roy for most of the game. The king is useless in the early stages and starts to shine during the endgame. Whereas Eliwood is more like one of the pieces on the last row in checkers. Middling throughout.

Chess have still a world of difference with Fire Emblem. The King must be protected and that's it. In Fire Emblem, you must carry roy each time to the throne, a more difficult task than just protect him. Obviously, there are times where he must fight on his way unless you have always a horse unit to carry him which is already a drag. And that's where he really sucks.
 

Tommy DJ

Member
Best/worst is subjective. More/less useful is less subjective. Roy has to be used every chapter. Eliwood doesn't. Ergo Roy is more useful than Eliwood. Eliwood could have made up for it with battle prowess, but unfortunately he's decisively below average, partly because of his late promotion. After promotion, he has nothing going for him. His movement is worse than a paladin and he starts with an E in lances.

Eliwood promotes Chapter 26 in Hector's Story. He has around ~8 Chapters of leveling and active contribution, which is pretty good considering most of those maps are swarming with enemies. He also doesn't get an E rank in lances but rather a D rank, which is significant because allows javelin usage (aka 2nd best lance in the game).

He might have 1 less move than other Paladins but he's still on a horse, so has canto, and can participate in rescue and trade chains that unmounted units just can't participate in.

Eliwood has shit bases but his growths are actually pretty OK. The problem is that they're not crazily offense slanted like, say, Hector's insane 60% strength growth so you get people often basing his combat performance on empirical evidence. Its very easy for him to reach the magic 14 attack speed required to double basically every mook in the game because enemy units are bad in this game. He's not a combat powerhouse but if you choose to give him the first Heaven Seal, he has plenty of utility and he really isn't any worse than the other Paladins you use not named Sain (and Marcus I guess).

Note that I'm not saying Eliwood is GOOD. He isn't good, since the Heaven Seal is worth $$$$$$ and neither Lyn or Eliwood are worth more than Killer Lances, but he's perfectly usable in both utility and combat purposes if you want to use him.

As for Roy? The basis of your entire argument is that the Binding Blade is good, ignoring that its a 20 use sword that does little but serve as a crutch for an underleveled Roy for the last two serious chapters of the game, and he's an "active unit" because he's force deployed and has capture thrones every map. But outside seizing the throne what can Roy actually do? Roy can never get a horse, he can't hit hard enough to put a dent into axe wielding fighters and is actually at serious risk of death, he gets murdered by the Nomads on the Sacae route, has WTD against Pegasus Knights on the Ilia route which already hampers his already weak offense and defense, and has to be placed far away from enemy Purge/Bolting users because guys like Ohtz hit so damn hard. His serious utility contributions basically start and end on Chapter 4 where his rapier is useful for finishing off stupid number of cavaliers that Marcus leaves on low HP. He's a liability for the majority of the game and his forced participation never has him actively participating in anything.

The comparison to Ike was very deliberate. If Roy being FedExed to the throne is a validation of his worth, and the criteria that puts him ahead of Eliwood who isn't even the worst lord in his game (that's Lyn), then he's definitely better than Path of Radiance Ike because map conditions don't necessitate the "use" of Ike every map and Ike is pretty bad at combat until he gets Ragnell (bad bases, sword locked, passive enemy phase, low movement, no canto, doesn't get overpowered weapon that makes him combat viable until the second last chapter of the game hey doesn't Ike look like Roy). I've sperged here but your argument really makes no sense unless we're giving units disproportionate value for doing a task that they didn't really assist in.
 

Firemind

Member
Eliwood promotes Chapter 26 in Hector's Story. He has around ~8 Chapters of leveling and active contribution, which is pretty good considering most of those maps are swarming with enemies. He also doesn't get an E rank in lances but rather a D rank, which is significant because allows javelin usage (aka 2nd best lance in the game).
Ah, I knew it was one of the two. Still, if we're using HHM as the criteria, then Eliwood is most definitely not the third best 'paladin' behind Marcus and Sain. Kent and Lowen are not far behind Sain in usefulness. What holds Eliwood back is the late promotion and the use of a heaven's seal. (Lyn is worse in HHM you won't hear any complaints from me.)

The comparison to Ike was very deliberate. If Roy being FedExed to the throne is a validation of his worth, and the criteria that puts him ahead of Eliwood who isn't even the worst lord in his game (that's Lyn), then he's definitely better than Path of Radiance Ike because map conditions don't necessitate the "use" of Ike every map and Ike is pretty bad at combat until he gets Ragnell (bad bases, sword locked, passive enemy phase, low movement, no canto, doesn't get overpowered weapon that makes him combat viable until the second last chapter of the game hey doesn't Ike look like Roy). I've sperged here but your argument really makes no sense unless we're giving units disproportionate value for doing a task that they didn't really assist in.
Ike is by definition better because of save scumming. Swords are bad, but it doesn't matter much when you're hooked up on roids (ie bonus exp). If we're using the highest difficulty as the criteria, which is maniac fixed mode, then I could see Ike being worse than Roy and Eliwood.

I mean if we're using your criteria (highest difficulty), then Lyn is the worst lord in the series, not Roy. Even the guy who is doing the FE6 HM 0% speedrun said Roy is useful. :lol
 

Tommy DJ

Member
I haven't run the math but I don't believe Kent ends up being significantly stronger, if at all, than a decently trained and promoted Eliwood unless you seriously grind him in Lyn's story. Kent's main draw will generally be his base level as well as availability.

Lowen is a tank on the horse but his offensive parameters have some significant issues that can stop him from one rounding units even with higher tiered axes. Isadora is a very useful unit that comes with a fantastic inventory but has some serious durability and constitution issues.

From an efficiency standpoint, I'd agree that everyone is better than Eliwood but the point is that if you don't immediately bench Eliwood and choose to give him a seal, he turns out perfectly fine and his promotion bonuses are actually very significant. But no one has time for that and Heaven Seals are worth mad cash.

As for Lyn being terrible, she's bad but the Mani Katti is a really good weapon that'll last her the whole game. Without Lyn's story though, she gets OHKOed by enemy cavaliers on Dread Isle lmao.

I guess if we're talking about an efficiency standpoint, Roy might be better since his rapier is essential to complete Chapter 4 and 7 reliably while you don't really need to use Lyn at all.
 
I mean if we're using your criteria (highest difficulty), then Lyn is the worst lord in the series, not Roy. Even the guy who is doing the FE6 HM 0% speedrun said Roy is useful. :lol

when dondon said "Roy is surprisingly useful" he meant "he surprisingly doesn't get ORKO'd by this enemy so you can drop him there to seize next turn", not "wow look at how much he's contributing"
 

Rutger

Banned
After a while, yeah. Though I left animations on longer in Awakening since I could speed them up, and I liked how the music changed. Eventually I'll have seen most of the animations, so there's no reason to keep slowing things down, unless I want to hear the music.

I think I'm more tolerant to animations than others though.
 

Golnei

Member
Pantsless Marth needs to return at some point.

I wonder if there's any hope for FE14's Einherjar to have unique models? If they do, a redesign like this would fit in reasonably well.

After a while, yeah. Though I left animations on longer in Awakening since I could speed them up, and I liked how the music changed. Eventually I'll have seen most of the animations, so there's no reason to keep slowing things down, unless I want to hear the music.

I think I'm more tolerant to animations than others though.

Awakening was the only entry I ever wanted to turn off animations for, and even then only in the postgame. The length of a regular game isn't quite enough for them to grate, and if newer games retain the speed and manual enemy turn bypass options from Awakening, I doubt I'll turn them all off completely.
 
so Awakening might be super easy to break.....but what about an all chapters no grind speedrun

you'll have to find a way to get all the S supports in time :p
 

Rigalo

Member
After like 2 weeks of craving I decided to fire up Sacred Stones Sunday night and I'm at chapter 9 already, picked Erika's side because idk.

I've played every Fire Emblem from 7 onward and I love them all basically equally. Are there favorites in the series? Entries that people tend to not prefer? I'm betting SS and Awakening since they can be broken due to world map and grind spots but still you only do that if you want to.
 

mjc

Member
Question about the Emmeryn chapter in Awakening...how the hell do I go without losing either the war monk or the dark magic chick? I can't figure it out. I'm playing permadeath and I reset when I lose someone. I thought about leaving three or four units back to fight the cavalry wyverns that fly in from the north, but that still won't help.

Any tips?
 

Sölf

Member
What difficulty are you playing on?

Libra is neutral, so he will fight the enemies. You just have to hurry to get to him. But since Tharja is hostile, she won't get attacked by other enemies until she is recruited (and I think she only get's aggressive once you get into her range, but I am not sure about this).

The easiest thing to do would be to just pair them up with another strong character so they would definitly survive.

Edit: Mayb you could save Libra earlier if one of your healer uses a Rescue Staff (you should have one from one of the side quests).
 

mjc

Member
I'm playing on hard.

The issue I keep having is that either Libra goes off to the group at the east and gets killed before I get to him, or I get sandwiched between the support wyverns and the troops to the east. There's gotta be an easy method I keep overlooking.
 

Sölf

Member
As said, try to use a Rescue staff. You could port him up to your group and recruit.

Or just try and be more aggressive. Maybe that works.
 
Question about the Emmeryn chapter in Awakening...how the hell do I go without losing either the war monk or the dark magic chick? I can't figure it out. I'm playing permadeath and I reset when I lose someone. I thought about leaving three or four units back to fight the cavalry wyverns that fly in from the north, but that still won't help.

Any tips?
If you've levelled Lon'qu, pair him up with someone and leave him for the wyverns. Don't need more than that.

As for Libra, have Chrom paired with a flier and fly to Libra. Should be fast enough, just make sure you keep out of bows' range and that you don't get overwhelmed. Usually I get both Cordy and Sumia rushing to split the pressure between the two.
 

Tommy DJ

Member
How you use pair up will dictate how quickly you can get through that map. Since its a desert map, magic users and fliers are #1 since they suffer no movement penalty.

The main goal of that map is to position your units in such a way that you demolish the majority of enemy units between you and Libra during the first turn enemy phase.

I can't remember but there's one square on the far left side that will pull two or three units far away from the right hand side and there's another square on the right that is perfect for a magic user (1-2 range, chews through wyvern riders) that is paired up with someone with good defense pair up bonuses.
 
Wait, people keep animations off when they're not grinding?

I'm more surprised that people keep them on. I've turned them off in every FE game, even the GBA ones, which people seem to really like for some reason. Personally, I find animations terribly repetitive and a waste of time.
 

Lunar15

Member
I'm more surprised that people keep them on. I've turned them off in every FE game, even the GBA ones, which people seem to really like for some reason. Personally, I find animations terribly repetitive and a waste of time.

I usually leave them on for a bit until I hit the point of exhaustion and turn them off.
 
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