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Fire Emblem Fates |OT| Nohr does what Hoshidon't

C

champloo

Member
I guess everyone's experience is different based on what units they use. I beat conquest 19 in one go by giving Azura a beast slayer and having everyone pair with her in attack stance. I also played it very safely and spent 20+ turns.

I just found out that the AI in Birthright seems to be different from Conquest from my experience. Right now the enemies are smashing their heads against Rinkah doing no damage, whereas in Conquest they won't even try attacking Effie.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
champloo said:
I guess everyone's experience is different based on what units they use. I beat conquest 19 in one go by giving Azura a beast slayer and having everyone pair with her in attack stance. I also played it very safely and spent 20+ turns.

I just found out that the AI in Birthright seems to be different from Conquest from my experience. Right now the enemies are smashing their heads against Rinkah doing no damage, whereas in Conquest they won't even try attacking Effie.
Click to expand...

Apart from disregarding dual guard, they seem smarter than your average bear FE AI.

Feel like that probably makes Benny almost useless. Even once you get wary fighter, his defense will be so high that he might as well not exist on enemy phase, when he would actually be useful.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
CazTGG said:
Having nearly finished Revelation, I feel i've finally pinned down my big problem with Fates' plot, aside from the contrivances that plague each of the three paths (Conquest in particular): The focal point of the game isn't on the war and how Corrin plays a bit part in the events that take place, but more about making Corrin into a special snowflake whose mere presence can alter the fabric of reality with their every whim. They certainly aren't a Mary Sue like Micaiah was in Radiant Dawn, but they are the only person who seems to be capable of doing something besides spout exposition and kill people
like how they were the only person with half a brain to try and open up a diplomatic channel between the two kingdoms in Revelation
.
Click to expand...

That's actually one of the reasons I thought Conquest was better than the other two paths. Although the characters praise and rally around Corrin's idealism, Corrin's practical decisions and leadership abilities are portrayed as flawed - maybe it should have happened even more often, but something like
Leo going against Corrin's orders to execute a defeated enemy and being portrayed as correct, or Xander sometimes barking orders in cutscenes in spite of nominally being under Corrin as far as the Hoshido invasion goes seems very rare among other FE lords.

Even in a case like Path of Radiance, when some of the Greil mercenaries questioned Ike's leadership and left, they were eventually proven to be wrong, while in Conquest Leo's and Xander's actions are all considered correct.

That take on Corrin is much more convincing than Birthright's and Revelation, where Corrin somehow even takes the leadership position from the older brothers for no reason.

Really, the most annoying parts of Conquest are basically mistaken priorities from the writer - and mistakes that easily could be avoided by just changing the focus of elements that are already even mentioned in the game.
For example - the stupid crystal ball plot device wasn't really necessary to make the plot follow the Hoshido invasion by itself. Later, they bring up how Nohr was starting to be divided into two factions - Xander loyalists and Garon loyalists and that it could lead to a civil war, but it's something they wanted to avoid.

That, alongside the other one off mention about other battles causing deaths of innocents in both sides, so ending the war would help everyone, should have gotten a much bigger focus in being part of the initial justification for the Hoshido invasion, rather than being briefly mentioned once way after it was underway.
 
L

L95

Member
Honestly, outside of accessibility, Awakening is still a huge low point in the series for me, but I've mostly gotten past it now. I do prefer Fates overall to Awakening.
 
G

GSR

Member
Finished Birthright Lunatic Classic. I'm gonna be honest, I looked at chapter 27, said "screw this" and just solo'd it with Ryoma (+Corrin as backup.) I was not invested enough in the game at that point to get X other units up to the point where they could take massive waves of enemies. Even playing a holding pattern and sending Ryoma up the center would've been questionable.

I sorta made up for it by not using him in the final chapter though.

Overall: Birthright was still enjoyable, but not nearly as much as Conquest. Maybe it was the difficulty setting, but even then the difficulty never felt interesting like Conquest Hard's did, it just boiled down to "throw your units at each other" most of the time. Characters weren't as enjoyable as Conquest's either, and most of my army wound up unmarried (even though there were plenty of possible S-ranks waiting for me to hit the button.)

I think I'm all Emblemed out for a while, in any event. I'll play Revelation at some point but not now I don't think.
 
D

dreamlongdead

Member
I took a small break from my Lunatic/Classic Conquest playthrough and finally started Revelation. My first playthrough of this path is actually on Lunatic/Classic.

It's alright, but everyone has already stated the major flaws of this path. I'm on Chapter 14, and the actual difficulty is not too high despite the annoying gimmick maps and low-leveled allies. Thank God I now have more than one decent unit now. This playthrough does not involve any skirmish grinding, and even Lunatic difficulty seems beatable without it.

The story is holding my interest, and I do want to see how it all unfolds. The new pairing options are cool and add even more depth to team building.
 
M

Moonlight

Banned
Awakening features Tiki and Anna as playable units. Think the choice is clear. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

awakening has a better story (which is not a high bar) and better implementation of kids at a narrative level but fates is a solid bump upward in nearly every other regard
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
I'd argue that Awakening's plot and especially its characters are worse than Fates.

Like Conquest is a complete train-wreck, but it's a train-wreck that tried to do something different. So even if the destination is total crash-town, the ride itself is pretty fun. Brithrout's plot is "okay."
 
D

Draxal

Member
Phocks said:
If Awakening plays worse and looks worse why is it better?
Click to expand...

Honestly for me it's because Corrin is such an unlikeable protag. Chrom and Robin are milquetoast for me, but Corrin is just awful.

I'm not really a fan of the three split routes either, while it makes sense conceptually. Nor am I fan of the way they implemented children in the game.
 
S

spiritfox

Member
Ryouji Gunblade said:
Plot, characters, music, DLC, and some game mechanics are way better, IMO.
Click to expand...

Eh, out of the above I'll say only plot is better, and that's not an amazing achievement compared to Fates' story. The music is more varied, the DLC is more or less the same, and most characters are more fleshed out and less cliche. What game mechanics are better in Awakening?
 
A

Azuran

Banned
spiritfox said:
Eh, out of the above I'll say only plot is better, and that's not an amazing achievement compared to Fates' story. The music is more varied, the DLC is more or less the same, and most characters are more fleshed out and less cliche. What game mechanics are better in Awakening?
Click to expand...

Nosferatu spamming

I can't think of anything else Awakening did better than Fates when it came to gameplay.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Anna not being a DLC character is literally the only thing that comes to mind. They really fucked up when they locked her behind a paywall + timed release. Completely killed Awakening's Anna revolution.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I could see someone preferring Awakening's infinite reclassing/levels. I would call Fates system an improvement though (I'd still prefer to ditch class changing entirely, but it's probably here to stay).
 
D

Draxal

Member
The way statues works is really stupid tbh, it basically replaces limitbreaker, but you have to do it with so many characters.

Really wish statues weren't in the game at all, especially when for one of them in rev you have to grind 100 battles on a character in one chapter in Rev.

I do think Fates is a better game overall, but I honestly prefer Awakening's cast/heroes. Fates has much better music than Awakening imho, except nothing touches you don't have her name.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
chaosblade said:
I could see someone preferring Awakening's infinite reclassing/levels. I would call Fates system an improvement though (I'd still prefer to ditch class changing entirely, but it's probably here to stay).
Click to expand...

You can still do that in Fates via the Eternal Seal & Partner/Friendship seals.
 
S

spiritfox

Member
There is still infinite lvling in Fates, just much harder to do (which I'll argue is better since balance).

Also Anna being DLC is somehow the stupidest yet cleverest thing to do. The main problem is why is she not available at launch.
 
D

Draxal

Member
I also don't like how forging in this game works (specifically the mineral grind), I honestly really don't like how my castle works to be honest. That superfluous shit was one of the things I didn't like about Awakening, and they tripled downed on it in this game.

And yes, I'm playing devils advocate atm so don't pay attention to me too much.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
I know it's been brought up before(?), but I really want to stress how much better reclassing is in Fates.

There's so much more flexibility... it's not like in Awakening where characters had like 5-6 classes (most of which were shit for them). It's fun messing and doing something zany like Mechanist!Takumi, because you married him to Kagerou, or Swordmaster!Leo because he's buddies with Odin. There are so many possibilities.
 
M

Moonlight

Banned
At a mechanical level, really struggling to think of anything Awakening actually did better in service to game balance. FEA was a fun game, but fundamentally busted on a couple different levels. Pairing up, for instance, isn't completely fixed in Fates, and preferable to attack stance a majority of the time, but it's not the swiss army bulldozer it was before.

PK Gaming said:
I'd argue that Awakening's plot and especially its characters are worse than Fates.

Like Conquest is a complete train-wreck, but it's a train-wreck that tried to do something different. So even if the destination is total crash-town, the ride itself is pretty fun. Brithrout's plot is "okay."
Click to expand...
Eh, plot-wise, Awakening was a borderline alright fantasy story with a clear beginning, an interminable middle, and an alright but typical end. Fates tries to do more, but it fails to be a coherent or interesting narrative anyways, so in the end, I don't really obligated to give that much more credit to Fates. Awakening played it safe and in the end it wasn't anything special and occasionally sort of confused about itself, but it did still have cool concepts it kicked around and clear arcs. Conquest doesn't even drink its' own kool-aid quite enough to the point where I could, like, ironically enjoy it.

At a character level, they're about even. I think overall I'd hand it to Fates, though.

spiritfox said:
There is still infinite lvling in Fates, just much harder to do (which I'll argue is better since balance).

Also Anna being DLC is somehow the stupidest yet cleverest thing to do. The main problem is why is she not available at launch.
Click to expand...
That's really what gets me. I'd have happily forked over for Anna ASAP, but we're bound to what feels like this hugely arbitrary enforced release schedule. At least I'll be able to get her in time for my Revelation playthrough, but... urgh.
 
D

dreamlongdead

Member
Draxal said:
I also don't like how forging in this game works (specifically the mineral grind), I honestly really don't like how my castle works to be honest. That superfluous shit was one of the things I didn't like about Awakening, and they tripled downed on it in this game.

And yes, I'm playing devils advocate atm so don't pay attention to me too much.
Click to expand...

Forging is a bit tedious, but the castle system is really good. I'm not sure what other issues you have with it. You can play traditional and ignore it.

I'm a big fan of the added features, and people aren't going to want future games to be stripped down. I don't need the marriage and kids for a third time in a row though.
 
D

Draxal

Member
dreamlongdead said:
Forging is a bit tedious, but the castle system is really good. I'm not sure what other issues you have with it. You can play traditional and ignore it.

I'm a big fan of the added features, and people aren't going to want future games to be stripped down. I don't need the marriage and kids for a third time in a row though.
Click to expand...

Statues are a really awful addition.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Things I wouldn't mind seeing cut include marriage, kids (unless they're just in a different game that's in the same universe), bases/my castle, shopping in between chapters, skills, reclassing, gridning, promotion options, 3D models (especially in cutscenes, I miss portraits charging at each other to indicate combat), inflated growths, and convoy access at the lord instead of a merchant character.

Really I think it's time for IS to Make FE FE6/7 Again (but don't remake them that would be terrible).

Actually tbh I'm not sure if I have a bigger issue with skills or child characters. Child character mess up late game recruitment in a dumb way but I think skills are kind of terrible for the game in every form they've been present after Thracia.

They're either proc based (which is unreliable and annoying, like we don't need an extra crit system) or dumb micromanagement tiny bonuses which are pretty lame. I also don't like attaching them to classes because I think having skills helped make characters unique in cool ways, like Mareeta being the only person who had Astra, or how coming with Wrath is pretty key to using Tailto. Comparatively, most of the personal skills in this are kind of lame and don't make the character all that interesting, like Xander's is just more damage sometimes but by a tiny amount.

Basically, if skills are going to stay, I don't think they should be attached to classes and they should be sparse but impactful.
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Is mozu gonna be the character that if you put in the time is gonna to become death, destroyer of worlds?
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Moonlight said:
Eh, plot-wise, Awakening was a borderline alright fantasy story with a clear beginning, an interminable middle, and an alright but typical end. Fates tries to do more, but it fails to be a coherent or interesting narrative anyways, so in the end, I don't really obligated to give that much more credit to Fates. Conquest doesn't even drink its' own kool-aid quite enough to the point where I could, like, ironically enjoy it.

At a character level, they're about even. I think overall I'd hand it to Fates, though.
Click to expand...

Earghhhhhhhhh... I guess!

Awakening was a generic fantasy story that completely bungled its most compelling aspect (time travelling), but it would be incredible disingenuous for me to say that the story was outright bad. I prefer the setting in Fates, and the individual moments were better/more memorable, but yeah overall, Fates is a complete mess.

Character wise, it isn't even a contest. Which characters in Awakening even remotely comes close to the awesome trifecta of Royal Siblings/Retainers/sub characters? I'd even go as far as to say that the supports are way better here. They're more varied, better written and offer more sides to a given character. Like take Oboro for example (not sure if you're familiar with her yet, but she's great). Each of her supports dealt with a different aspect of her character in neat ways (her family, retainership/Takumi, FASHION, nohrian scum). I can't think of a character in Awakening that had a fantastic set of supports like her.

Awakening had the better kids, but Fates quickly closes the gap by bringing in 3 of the best kids and making them better, and taking 3 of the best characters and making 2 of them better.

TL;DR

Story: Awakening > Fates
Characters: Fates > Awakening
Gameplay: Fates >>> Awakening
Xander: Fates >>>>>Awakening
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Draxal said:
Statues are a really awful addition.
Click to expand...

Agree about My Castle in general, but statues and forging are both bad. Statues feel microtransactiony, but without the actual microtransactions.

foxuzamaki said:
Is mozu gonna be the character that if you put in the time is gonna to become death, destroyer of worlds?
Click to expand...

Kind of. Terrible base stats, but she has aptitude and otherwise decent growths. So after a while of babying she should turn into a very reliable unit.

Worth it? I dunno. Her class options aren't all that great. At least Donnel had that going for him (Merc -> Hero was great in Awakening and instantly made him "good").
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
foxuzamaki said:
Is mozu gonna be the character that if you put in the time is gonna to become death, destroyer of worlds?
Click to expand...
The dirty secret of Fire Emblem is that the qualifier "if you put in the time" leads to every character becoming death, destroyer of worlds.

She has bonus growths because of aptitude but she's really bad, don't bother.

Edit: On the subject of Awakening vs. Fates, I think Awakening's story seems a lot less bad in retrospect. Awakening was not very satisfying but did not inspire the RAGE that Conquest did or the "meh" that Birthright/Revelation did. Though maybe that was just the feeling of playing a new FE for the first time in four years :p

Character wise I think Fates >>> Awakening except fuck Xander and Camilla for being terrible, also Chrom is better than most of the main characters outside of maybe Takumi/Leo.
 
J

Jotamide

Unconfirmed Member
Last 2 enemies on the map landed crits in a row against Arthur. Fuck this shit game.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Bonen no Max'd said:
The dirty secret of Fire Emblem is that the qualifier "if you put in the time" leads to every character becoming death, destroyer of worlds.

She has bonus growths because of aptitude but she's really bad, don't bother.
Click to expand...

Jagens disagree! In the case of Fates, I have to wonder if anyone actually uses Gunter. Dude seems completely useless since his bases are just "good" and his growths are trash.
 
D

Draxal

Member
chaosblade said:
Jagens disagree! In the case of Fates, I have to wonder if anyone actually uses Gunter. Dude seems completely useless since his bases are just "good" and his growths are trash.
Click to expand...

Gunter is really good in Conquest as a pair up bot because of his personal, support bonuses, and class bonuses are all great.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
chaosblade said:
Jagens disagree! In the case of Fates, I have to wonder if anyone actually uses Gunter. Dude seems completely useless since his bases are just "good" and his growths are trash.
Click to expand...

His personal is really good (the servant personals in general are overpowered) and he can do work if you heart seal him into a Wyvern Lord.

Your textbook Jeigan. Good right out of the gate, and when you drop him when he's put in the hours.

EDIT: Damn, beaten.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Gunter is actually pretty good pair up fodder, especially for Corrin. GK/Paladin bonuses are reaaaal nice.

Jagens usually disagree because they require no investment to be one of the best characters in the game. Jeigan/Dagdar/Marcus (both times, but he's even better in the version where he has shittier growths)/Seth/Titania/Sothe/Jeigan again/Frederick are all some of the best units in their games regardless of how good their growths are. Sometimes they *are* the best unit, in the case of Marcus/Seth.

edit: lol the Gunter Defense Force in full swing
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
It's 3:40 AM and I should probably go to bed but I just want to leave off on this incrediby important point:

Takumi and Leo are the best.

Thank you.
 
D

Draxal

Member
PK Gaming said:
Character wise, it isn't even a contest. Which characters in Awakening even remotely comes close to the awesome trifecta of Royal Siblings/Retainers/sub characters? I'd even go as far as to say that the supports are way better here. They're more varied, better written and offer more sides to a given character. Like take Oboro for example (not sure if you're familiar with her yet, but she's great). Each of her supports dealt with a different aspect of her character in neat ways (her family, retainership/Takumi, FASHION, nohrian scum). I can't think of a character in Awakening that had a fantastic set of supports like her.

Awakening had the better kids, but Fates quickly closes the gap by bringing in 3 of the best kids and making them better, and taking 3 of the best characters and making 2 of them better.
Click to expand...

I honestly didn't like the interaction between the retainers and their respective siblings. It just became sibling worship instead of Corrin worship, I think I would have liked the characters more if they didn't have that dynamic. Each side having four siblings and two retainers ... was just too neat and orderly for me, and I really didn't like the doubling down on the imouto fetish.

Oboro's great, as for the Awakening transplants, Caeldori is more boring than Cordelia, Asugi's just there (never really like Gaius too much, I think Niles is much more interesting than him), Rhajat's exactly the same.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I guess I was spoiled by characters like Effie getting good growths. Gunter doesn't even seem to have very good bases for being a Jeigan. I guess there is the pair up fodder route, but I'd opt to use units that can carry their weight.
 
H

Hours Left

Member
That Ryoma x Saizo DLC convo... Amazing.

It's a real shame Nintendo didn't go further with providing same sex romantic supports in Fates. So many of these DLC convos are overflowing with homoeroticism, so it would of been nice if players could actually capitalize on that in earnest.
 
D

demidar

Member
chaosblade said:
I guess I was spoiled by characters like Effie getting good growths. Gunter doesn't even seem to have very good bases for being a Jeigan. I guess there is the pair up fodder route, but I'd opt to use units that can carry their weight.
Click to expand...

Gunther in Revelations is weak as hell. And he's got no supports.
 
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