-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Fire Emblem Heroes |OT| Mount Breeding Simulator
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
Hours Left
Member
B!Ike doesn't suck at all.
Hours Left
Member
He's better than good. He's great.
Offensive reds don't counter BIke. BIke OHKOs them instead.
theprodigy
Member
(don't listen to this guy)
BIke can take a hit from Ryoma, Ike, Lucina etc. and OHKO them with Ignis since Steady Breath applies to Ignis and it's typeless damage.
theprodigy
Member
I'm aware of that one note gimmick but that's all he's got and others can even take Steady Breath from him and do it too.
(well I suppose that last part is a reason to pull for him at least)
Hours Left
Member
jasminlovesyoux
Banned
BIke is incredibly good. The people that say he sucks are those that just want every unit to only have Attack and Speed and OHKO as many things as possible. That's the only game plan that matters to them. For everyone else, and the majority of content in the game, BIke is a godly defensive character.
I do think he is a bit overhyped but his QP Ignis build on defense demands a good answer - Ryoma straight up dies to it on initiation (and can't kill Ike on enemy phase because of Urvan) and Ike in general single-handedly makes Brave Sword builds unviable.
He's not S+, but we did place him in S, he's a metagame shifter.
The only question remaining is how many players will put him on their defense teams after he stops being a bonus unit (over their Hectors).
Our next tier list update will revolve mainly around units that can deal with Brave Ike and Lyn, like certain bulky mages, dragons, and dancers.
Auron_Kale
Member
Pulled B!Lucy and now I need to start building her... Fun times after I initially pulled these guys:
She came with he next pull, which I sniped.
She came with he next pull, which I sniped.
phoenix296
Member
If a hero can't ORKO at least 100 heroes in the current roster they're obviously not worth using.
I mean, yes, because he's such a passive and slow unit that he posses little threat when he is attacking and has to be attacked but *only* by melee or blue mages.
His major contribution is that he's basically rendered a weapon set useless because of Urvan. Steady Breath itself is better used on Ike or Ryoma since they have innate DC to abuse Steady Breath against all forms of combat, are faster, and in Ryoma's case, a good unit.
We were discussing this on discord, he's a centralizing unit in that he ruins a subset of weapons and you can't mindlessly attack into him (if he's the QP Ignis build, if he's not then lolfreekill) but he himself isn't hard do deal with nor is he a scary unit to face. He's largely a free kill for any well-rounded team, kind of like Hector but not quite as scary because Hector can combat at any range. Conversely, Reinhardt demands a counter because he's hyper-aggressive with massive range.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Wait what build are you guys running? I have Ryoma and just to make sure I wasn't going crazy I ran a simulation of him at neutral IVs with fury and moonbow against a +def BIke and BIke dies with 11 overkill damage, and Ryoma has 23 health after fury damage left. +def Bike is killed by neutral Lucina and Ike as well.
Hours Left
Member
You're looking at this from a defense team standpoint too much IMO.
I base the value of a character primarily on how I use them, not how they behave when controlled by the AI.
The previously mentioned QP Ignis build is particularly dangerous - Ryoma dies to it in one hit if he initiates:
So brave Lyn, xander and camus horse embem is in the works for me. While I wait for Reinhardt to show up I'm gonna run them with a dancer. I've been sniping blues on the tempest banner looking for ninian but nothing so far so it's plain old Olivia for now. I've never actually bothered to do anything with her but is there an actual in case of emergency combat build for her?
Wyndstryker
Member
You know you're going down the rabbit hole when you start making spreadsheets to track your chars and determine what you need and don't need...
And I know the possibility of putting char stats, skills and all that fun stuff into the spreadsheet might happen...
Just doing this put the whole reality that I don't have a single armored 5*...
Ruby Sword+ / Moonbow / Fury 3 / Wings of Mercy / Whatever Buff
I almost, almost made an Olivia like this just because I use her a lot (even though she almost never gets into combat).
toastyToast
Member
The problem with that is Ike has to get hit for it to work. It's not like when Reinhardt or Bridelia is in range and you think,"Oh shit! What do I do?" Just use a mage to pepper him first. It's like dealing with Wary Fighter.
That's kind of a waste of Quickened Pulse imo
It's for defense. I can't run a mage because I don't have a merged one for scoring. I do have an answer for Brave Ike, but Ryoma isn't it. Mages like Julia and Sonya have problems killing him, Cavalry and Flier mages cant 1RKO him because he invalidates their buffs.
This Brave Ike build forces specific answers - yes, if you run Nino, that is one.
dreamlongdead
Member
I have a Brave Ike with +DEF/-SPD. He's practically invincible to melee attackers, and can even tank many mages. Brave Ike survives quadruple assaults from Brave Bow+ Bridelia. He hits incredibly hard with his specials, too.
How can he possibly be considered bad?
How can he possibly be considered bad?
:waves:
Its time for the (re)Rise of Nino, Destroyer of Worlds.
I base value of characters on my use too, that doesn't make MRobin not a bad character.
I find characters valuable in all sorts of contrived, paper-thin margins but I also cannot deny that many of the characters I like to use and have found to work well, are not themselves all that good. I can compensate for their short comings either with absurd builds or by rounding out the team in such a way as to have weaknesses covered. Or by just manipulating dumb AI.toastyToast
Member
He's a defensive threat. Can he just walk up to someone and kill them? Not really with that speed. Just have him trade with a green or red then finish him off with someone else.
I'm talking about when facing Brave Ike. Using him is another story since we're much smarter than the AI
DecoReturns
Member
I got so lucky.
I got Bow Lyn with just 15 orbs. I was expecting to blow all my orbs on getting her since I took the free Ike.
Think I'm gonna try to get Roy. Probabrly gonna be impossible since he's a red. Oh, well. Here goes nothing.
I got Bow Lyn with just 15 orbs. I was expecting to blow all my orbs on getting her since I took the free Ike.
Think I'm gonna try to get Roy. Probabrly gonna be impossible since he's a red. Oh, well. Here goes nothing.
You can't really engage him with popular characters like Reinhardt and BLyn. Is it too difficult to understand?
Pretty sure Palla is the superior choice.
Caeda is the red version of what Camilla does, you pretty much need to give her Distant Counter to make her truly great, along with something like Wo Dao. She can also use Ploys.
Palla on the other hand is more of a bruiser - her Brave Sword build is not viable right now because of Brave Ike who just obliterates her, but Wo Dao (or Ruby) are still very good.
If Brave Ike is +Atk he only needs to be +4 to straight up 1RKO Fury Xander.
I use Palla. She has Brave Sword+, LnD2, Swordbreaker 3 and Hone Fliers. I'd recommend Death Blow 3 over LnD if you have it probably, I just used LnD2 as a budget option because Klein hates me. Also Hone is only on mine because it made the most sense in my team (Firesweep Cord, SCorrin, SCam, and Palla) that she'd be the one to carry it.
That all said, the above is true, I built her before BIke, and it does fuck with her.
Good to know. But if I am running Xander I will never find +4 because of the difference of BST.
Edit: Or you meant +4 like hone attack?
toastyToast
Member
You know I'm talking about facing Ike and not using him right? The comparison I drew was with Wary Fighter. Just 1-2 him or stick a red or green melee in his face to bait him and kill him the following turn. Ike isn't difficult to deal with by virtue of the fact that he can't just walk up to someone and kill them. Bait him or use a red or green mage to delete him.
Compared to the two you mentioned, the solution there is, "Well, someone is gonna have to eat this hit. Oh, I don't have anyone that can survive. Guess this run is over." You can safely bait Ike with everything that isn't a blue mage pretty much.
When you play to Ike's strength (as in you, the player) he's an excellent unit. I don't think he's a good unit for a defensive team though. Unless people run all blue teams on offense for some reason.
This is the first Tempest Trial I actually want to do. I barely grinded 1k in the last 2 TT but this one being short with the good rewards actually achievable is really encouraging. I'm already at 5k and should make that 20k before it ends. I just wish this was the format going forwards. Reward people who want to grind with orbs rather than vital seals/units.
I did mean merges but a buff would obviously be even stronger.
700~ per perfect clear
3x multiplier two times a day
4200~ points for two clears
7 days
Just by doing two runs a day for each of the seven days should get you close to 30,000 points.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Not sure which he meant but some teams hide a big merged unit like that behind units like Reinhardt and mages that bring down the BST to face lower level teams.
I know that, but I presume that BIke natural BST+ merges is enough to make him hard to find regardless.
So you're saying that some people are jerks.
It's the first TT I've bothered doing since it's so easy.
Masked Marth and Quickened Pulse are big prizes for me. Not gonna say no to the orbs and feathers either.
Oh well my first two clears were on the second hardest difficulty. Didn't believe I could do the hardest one but tried afterwards and to my surprise, Hector was tanking everything lol. I've grinded 5k today. I might go the full 50k if I have the time.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
It made me dumb and I blew 30 orbs on the brave banner trying to get Lancina, it didn't work. I want to save my orbs but she is such a good unit.