interesting, thanks. although from the looks of it they'd be pretty far down on the list for upcoming units?
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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT|Natural Selection Simulator
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interesting, thanks. although from the looks of it they'd be pretty far down on the list for upcoming units?
I would have expected someone like Arvis much sooner than Reinhardt to be honest. He is a main character in that game.
Arvis with a blade tome or a broken Falaflame seems so dope
Interesting list. According to this, I have 4 S-tier units on the bench, all of them with good IV(+atk Eirika, +spd Ryoma*2, +spd Olivia, +atk Hector), yet I'm running 2 A-tier and a B-tier as my main team(Nowi, Kagero, Frederick). I was too comfortable with my team to make any changes, but maybe I could do something to improve..
A lot of blood and tears went into this list. But I think we did a good job. Also do note we tried to really use a proper scale here with C being average/meh with no real exceptional qualities but nothing outright bad.
We reserved D for units who are so badly spread or with such poor stats in general that they are simply unusable in their color/weapon. We also really fought over S/A/B and some units were especially divisive.
Anything in S needed very, very good arguments and support from everyone involved.
I don't want to be a jerk but I'm a little skeptical of the list so far because Eirika is top tier but S. Camilla isn't. They're both insanely good but with a team built around them yet Eirika is higher? I'd understand them both being A or both being S+ but both?
Also Nowi should be above Lucina at least. I'm in the discord but haven't participated much, this voting seems really hectic.
CuthbertAllgoodz
Member
Surprised at Ninian, Nowi and Bunny Camilla being A only. It's hard to do a list like that, though. Some units are definitely better than A but they need a lot of investments to be considered high tiers. Like Zephiel is B but with what I did to my Zephiel, he is really close to a Red Hector.
veloxStrix
Banned
I just want Julia. Not Sanaki + 2. ;-;
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I like other lists more; I learned nothing from looking at that list.
Zephiel doesn't have a free QR2 (Armads is just a really, really good weapon and propels Hector in S, vs. a mediocre Ecksacks with a C-slot skill which just isn't anything special all in all on such a slow unit) for a much coveted B-slot on top of being able to run Wary Fighter. Hector is the only armor that reaches S, and few can even reach A.
Ninian is not S because Ninian sucks at anything but support, her enemy phase is just piss poor. She has a weakness to Red because of Falchion, rendering her ability to tank key reds mute, and she's also too slow and frail to tank many of the good reds anyway without an investment into TA3 AND Swordbreaker making her simply worse than Azura.
SCamilla needs an entire flier emblem team and is slow as sin.
Look at Eirika's stats, her only deficit is her attack (partially mitigated by 16mt weapon) and an amazing buff bot with an excellent speed tier. SCamilla is in a garbage speed tier.
Getting into S tier for our list was *very hard* as can be told by the lack of more than handful of units there. There needed to be a solid argument put forth, articulated, and defended for anything in S.
To add on why Ninian is the only not-S dancer... If you do that build with Triangle Adept and Swordbreaker to make her durable enough to fight swords and not die instantly to Lucina. If you spend all those slots and all that SP, you'll have a unit that's about as good as stock Azura. And then Azura gets to add skills. The best Ninian is equal to the standard Azura. That's why we couldn't have them in the same tier. Ninian is still good, but Azura does her job better.
That's actually a recurring theme with this list. Ryoma does Ike's job better. Takumi and Virion have very similar stats, but Takumi's bow makes him a tier better, and in the red mages, Henry is D because Sophia can take his things and do them better than him.
That's actually a recurring theme with this list. Ryoma does Ike's job better. Takumi and Virion have very similar stats, but Takumi's bow makes him a tier better, and in the red mages, Henry is D because Sophia can take his things and do them better than him.
But poor attack is a big problem, Eirika is the only unit up there that I consider doesn't deserve to be up there because even though she has good speed can buff +7 without expending her turn action, every horse and flier can buff +12 with better mobility. Eirika is good and I think she has a place next to Lucina even but she has a lot of bias from the community and this just seems like more of that
CuthbertAllgoodz
Member
Yea it's good arguments. The list makes more sense to me when I just put the S-/A+ in the S tier. At first with just a quick look, the 2 tiers difference between some characters is huge but it's more like a ~1.5 tier difference with what you guys did with the S-/A+.
My basis is this: Eirika can be slotted into any team and she automatically makes that team simply better, her weapon is an excellent buff. She effectively checks her own color (Swordbreaker) and Green with her speed and solid bulk which make up for her weaker offensive stats.
We deliberate hard with her and her brother, but Ephraim was too slow/low res for S and we knocked him down to A.
theprodigy
Member
why
I mean if anything Fae should be the highest dragon now, but she certainly isn't S tier (no dragon is, arguably Ninian but losing to Lucina without Swordbreaker is well....bad, and in general her offense is worse)
fae is the best dragon now against meta threats, which can even counter julia with 2 rounds. ninian is dancer.. if they are A tier, they are A+
We discussed this to but the problem was... what does LB+ on Ninian check or matter? No one runs red mages, effectively, so she's basically not going to be countering much of anything with that weapon to be meaningful.
http://imgur.com/gallery/vmYe2
I know that's over simplifying things because most units aren't meta, specific units have specific builds, and Eph won't be nearly as lethal when out of QR health but it seems like he's much stronger outside of buffing and doesn't even have to decide whether or not to rally to be effective on his superior phase. Speed is important but only for some units, sure Julia will destroy him but he KILLS Linde if she attacks him when both have optimal SI. According to this list Linde is one of the best mages as well.
Ninian can bait and kill some archers with Lightning breath, red mages are rare but it's nice to have an easy answer when they show up. Also Reinhardt, she can actually survive him, even kill him on counterattack with specific builds(LB+, Reprisal, Fury). It's not very clean, but still, not many can survive Reinhardt.
SolarKnight
Member
So who do we assume will be the best character for getting feathers from the gauntlet assuming the distribution doesn't change? Robin?
i am tending to go with henry. saving feathers for the finals. the finals have now different rewards than the other. I didnt calc yet.
Robin seems to be the consensus choice, but with changes to the scoring system, we'll see how it actually turns out. Gonna pick Leo myself.
First off:
Eirika in S but Nino in SA? Nino defines infantry blade running and has humongous stats to boot. Eirika's best purpose is to serve as a Nino support but she on her own isn't exactly an incredible unit built for combat. If Eirika is a tier above Nino, there's something wrong. They should at -least- be equal.
Est should really be a tier lower than Hinoka. She's a discount Hinoka in like every stat sans Res. Why are they in the same tier, when Cordy is a tier higher?
Last, I think I'd lump M!Robin into BC over B, giving him the edge over F!Robin. Why? M!Robin can obtain natures, which gives him a higher threshold for combat or safety (+Atk makes him automatically better than F!Robin, basically).
theprodigy
Member
Azura can check archers and red mages with Distant Counter....also Fury+Reprisal? Even with that weird combo Ninian needs +HP, +res, or HP seal to survive a Death Blow +atk +1 atk seal Reinhardt.
That's just a problem with tiers not being ordered, Cordelia was borderline A/B tier and Hinoka>Est but not enough for a tier gap.
This list is pretty solid. I've got a couple of suggestions, though:
- Put Julia in S due to her ability to hard counter Reindhart/Linde for free and provide Dragon slaying.
- Put Nino in S for her Bladetome set. Tharja should be in SA.
- Put Nowi in S due to her ability to invalidate red units and check ranged units.
- Hot Tiki is roughly on par with Young Tiki despite having a lower stat total; Hot Tiki is way stronger and better on physical Defense, and Green Tomebreaker set lets her counter Nino, Cecilia and Julia (in addition to just rolling physical Green units). One could argue that Young Tiki is still better, but not by a whole tier.
- Put CorrinF in A since her speedy tank set is pretty fantastic in the current metagame.
- Put Kagero in S-/A+ tier, since the Life and Death set with Vantage is disgustingly potent.
- Sharena is a solid A tier unit. She needs very little help to succeed, has a solid kit and her legendary weapon is pretty great.
Running Distant Counter means Azura needs to give up an important A skill, not really worth it?
Also you gave Reinhardt the benefits of IV and seal, why left Ninian out? Even without hp seal or +hp nature, there are still Fort/Spur Res.
anyway, I'm not saying Ninian is better than Azura(although I like Ninian better), but rather she is not inferior.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
So I pulled a +spd -res Karel, is there anything he can do that Lucina can't?
Give his weapon to other characters?
toastyToast
Member
Team Sanaki let's go
SliceSabre
Banned
Team IndexJulia let's fucking goooooo!
veloxStrix
Banned
Defensive squares are the worst thing to happen in this game.
Went from almost never getting a death in a run to "Oh, wow. Look, no way to actual measure stats in a meaningful way."
Went from almost never getting a death in a run to "Oh, wow. Look, no way to actual measure stats in a meaningful way."
HoodWinked
Member
this is only the 2nd time they've had quests attached to the grand hero battles. the orbs usually require you to use a specific hero to KO the boss in lunatic difficulty.
theprodigy
Member
lol that was an arena streak filled with low scores, but 4804 is probably still good enough anyway (and with the flag quests I might just get a better score later anyway)
I meant to say I never noticed Ursula's ones. I did get the other ones for when you could get an extra robin and Navarre but I ignored Ursula.
kuroneko0509
Member
It's nice to want things baby.
Hours Left
Member
Well that banner is a super easy skip.
I was hoping one of Celica's hunky mercs would be on the banner, but I'm kinda glad they're not as it means I can keep hoarding orbs.
theprodigy
Member
I mean....first update was "only" 2:1, Linde actually has a chance with the rubber band stuff.....honestly I expected Tharja to pull a Camilla but she's not even close to that.
jimmytutron
Member
omg i need celica! and that healer skill to inherit to elise
How does the multiplier work this time?O_O I remember them saying the lower we are, the bigger the multiplier is working right?
Those new skills, wow. Wrathful Staff sounds like a step to bring healers into the meta.
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