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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT|Natural Selection Simulator
- Thread starter Shun
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To be fair anyone relying on an armour unit to tank a Mage with a brave tome, just because they don't want to rotate Hector out for a bit, probably needs to explore their roster a little more. Green res tanks, or skills/seals that give res buffs, are worth a look if a buffed Reinhardt is a problem rather than relying on a Hector without any buffs of his own to tank everything. I don't really find him a problem unless he's paired with a dancer, as the computer AI is easy to manipulate. Having said that, I thought Hector was OP at the start until I tooled up an Axebreaker unit to counter him.
The meta goes in waves, once everyone's packing anti-cavalry weapons to counter horse Emblem and green res tanks to counter Reinhardt, we'll see other stuff- arena four months ago was so different.
I don't think it'll be a direct nerf, just strategic placing of trees in future maps and dropping Horse/Flier/Armorslayer weapons on new characters. Outside of Reinhardt, Horse is just a lower stat total version of Flier Emblem.
SliceSabre
Banned
it's an example. You can reliably counter him *barely* with a res buffed Hector, quickened pulse is removing many of his counters and making the most infamous defense unit in the game objectively stronger. That is the opposite of good balance, period. This isn't saying it's impossible to counter him, but it IS getting much harder.
Now even if you 'explore your roster' and run one character slot JUST to deal with ONE unit there's a very short list of characters that can tank and eliminate a typical arena Reinhardt (every one I see is +atk, merged, DB3). Not everyone has a Julia, Lightning Breath Fae, or Distant Counter Titania. Even a high res green mage isn't reliable, I'd need to have ward AND fortify cavalry on Cecilia to be sure. Oh yeah and even unmerged and unbuffed he comfortably overkills FRobin, who has b tomebreaker and an anti-horse tome. Whoops.
Anyways I'm going to run quickened pulse/sacred cowl on Hector if it's a constant problem, or just play my cavalry team if I can get sufficient points to rank up using them. I can counter him. Hell, I'm trying to find one so I can use him. It's still dumb.
I wonder what they could do that'd still fit in with what has appeared in the games. Beast-slayer weapons aren't cutting it. Veronica and her AOE anti-buff tome is the obvious answer, I wonder how practical that will be though.
well congratulations you found the best one possible. Also I hate you.
A flier team is kind of nice for tempest to get around all these super cramped maps. I've been running 3 fliers + bonus unit every now and then.
Even that's been getting boring, though. Sometimes you just run into stupid horseshit, and it just feels super obnoxious when you get some unit with like 60+ hp, 45 defense and some other unit with Wings of Mercy.
Even that's been getting boring, though. Sometimes you just run into stupid horseshit, and it just feels super obnoxious when you get some unit with like 60+ hp, 45 defense and some other unit with Wings of Mercy.
Honestly the map with the four fliers makes me rage the most - Est in particular has high RES and makes it difficult to kill her in one round with Julia. The annoying thing is the map is literally the easiest ever with just an archer/dancer, so the second team always clears it in 2 rounds.
I'm seriously considering replacing Julia with Cherche on these teams. Cherche has a better chance of oneshotting these super strong characters, especially with flier buffs. Julia mostly needs a dancer or a good set of buffs herself to oneshot them.
One of the most annoying parts of tempest is how so many of these super-boosted characters are just so strong stat-wise that they can resist their own counters. The later maps are like dealing with a team full of 5* +10 units. It's doable, but it really wears thin after a while.
Mathematics
Neo Member
I just started investing my feathers in Horse Emblem. Started with blade+ on Cecilia. I need to pull more Jaegens and Gunters
Mathematics
Neo Member
20 orbs guarantees you nothing. Worst case you end up using both resources. Use the feathers and save orbs for another banner IMO
I just think there are a lot of strong builds out there, and even running a banner for two weeks is not going to drastically increase the number you encounter when the whales able to exploit the nastier builds have already pulled him on first appearance. Even if it caused a flood of Reinhardts, all that does is then suggest running a specific counter to it might be a good idea, as you say.
Besides, all this number-running does is presume one-on-one situations with one side buffed-to-the-nines with ideal IVs and the defending unit utterly helpless, when the reality is that the player-controlled force already has a vast advantage in predicting AI behaviour and can also buff the defender. If it was true PVP I'd be more worried about balance, but the shit AI gives the player such a huge advantage that even insanely unbalanced battles can be won. I mean, that's the whole basis of the GHBs, isn't it? I quite like the way they are like a chess problem, unpicking the encounter piece by piece until you find a solution that lets you come out on top. Maybe if a player has a stronger roster than mine (or are a better player) they are more of a walkover
Still, I'm happy to concede that I'm probably not at the rank level you are (hovering around tier 16-17 at the moment) and so maybe not seeing the scale of any problem in top-tier arena.
Perhaps the problem is that, of the dozens of characters available, we rarely see those with even stat spreads as having a speed of 1 is the same as a speed of 20 when fighting a speed 30 opponent. The whole system itself is biased towards the stat spread extremes which make up the top-tier units rather than specific units being an issue, with the only variety coming from random chance amongst ftp players that have few choices, or those fielding their favourites rather than power-builds. While units outside of phys/res tanks or OHKO attackers can be useful in the campaign, healers having wasted stats in attack makes them a bit pointless in arena which is a shame.
I mean the stats are easily above 5*+10 stats in the latter levels of Tempest.
It's funny. I don't even care about the units with high attacks or whatever in Tempest. It's the high DEF or RES units that really irritate me to no end, it means you have to waste more time killing them, which gives you less control over positioning since you can't just kill them before the other units manage to come over to annoy.
Fortunately the fliers aren't really a problem with my Bride Cordelia.
Technoweirdo
Member
We need a Triangle Adept banner. Vena can get his Roy and I can get Camus to not struggle against red mages. Also you guys can get a hard Rein counter.
5*+bullshit, mostly in the form of inflated HP.
I fiddled with some numbers and I think the Hector I met up with in Lunatic was a 5*+7, +HP/-DEF with an extra 18 HP tacked on.
76HP Hector? Lick me.
Hours Left
Member
This Tempest grind is, to quote Veronica, "tedious".
I love the idea, but the next one needs to be truncated. Shorter time frame, more points, less stages. (5 max.)
I love the idea, but the next one needs to be truncated. Shorter time frame, more points, less stages. (5 max.)
that's the thing. I'm not theorycrafting with unlikely situations, this is the kind of stuff I see all the time. It's certainly not rare to see perfect IV units when it prioritizes +4s against your unmerged due to stat totals, since obviously players will pick the best stats when merging. And I always take my own defensive buffs into account. 4 res won't help against instant moonbow though.
Anyways, I'm intentionally falling to 18 this week. I'm hoping that ranking scores are easier now that many more players have moved up into the higher ranks. Previously I had no choice but to run Hector if I wanted to go up in rank, but so far my new cavalry team is extremely effective in the tempest trial. And they'd fight way easier teams due to their low point value.
yeah, seriously. I don't see myself doing this grind again. Maybe if I've got a whole new full team that badly needs hero merit and SP again.
Agreed. I'm getting close to 20kish points now and, I'm so bored of it.
I don't mind it having 7 stages really. The problem is having to do those 7 stages 5/6 times each day for a fortnight just isn't fun. That's only for the skill, you're looking at double that if you're going for the orbs too.
I ain't going for those orbs. I value my time too much.
Sushen
Member
Yeah, and if they feel the need for addressing people beating it too quickly, just raise the stamina requirement. 7 matches are too long to grind, although an excellent value at 20.
How many points does that give per run?
Around 430 with a bonus character.
Hmm.. I'll probably just stick with the 7 battle one then. I don't imagine it'll be that much quicker for my team - not really the difficulty that's the problem for me. More my sanity.
Ah, I see what you mean, fair point.
I agree, it's far, far too much grinding, even to reach 50k with a reasonable win ratio. Double stamina cost, double points gained would be good.
All you guys posting about how easily you can handle Tempest and here I am getting bullshitted by the AI in every attempt. I haven't actually beaten the Lunatic version once. Doesn't seem to matter what kind of team comp I run, AI always has the perfect answer to it, and I don't have the patience for this kinda nonsense.
1. Reach to 7th stage
2. Surrender
3. Surrender again with garbage team and a bonus character
4. Surrender again, but watch out for wing of mercy/escape route
5. Retry the battle with hard counters (i.e. 2 reds, one counter to their enemy horse mage, one counter to their armor)
Every surrender will drop the enemy HP by 20%. Quickly surrender with your 2nd/3rd team will also help your speed score.
Pejo
Member
Man, I just don't like these tempest trials at all. I'm not even looking at advanced rewards, but I'd love to get at least enough for the 4* "Marth". Not sure I have it in me though. The points are so low for how long it takes, and I can't do anything above the Hard 5 battle one. Might just take the L on this event.
The 4* Marth shouldn't be too difficult to get. On the 7 battle one, assuming you get through some of the easy first maps(which should be doable with a normal non-top tier set of level 40's), you should still end up with about 300-350 after failing with a bonus unit. At least that's what people were saying. Someone can confirm it.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I think the Tempest is alright. It's a grind, sure, but you get what you put into it. If you have a perfect team, you can go for the highest rewards. If you're a casual player like me, do the first few difficulties for some rewards.
It's similar to the seal quests where you're grinding 3 stars up to level 30 for 5 orbs.
It's similar to the seal quests where you're grinding 3 stars up to level 30 for 5 orbs.
I get about that if I get to map 7 then fail completely.
Aveyn Knight
Member
Doh, I was tired and sent in my WIP party of 3 mage girls into the Tempest.
Knowing you can't quit, I decided to YOLO it and see how far I could go. I think I made it to the 5th map somehow XD
Granted, one of them was Desperation Linde. The other was a 4* Tharja decked out with skills and the last one was a 3* Nino with nothing but Gronnblade. None of them had buffs.
Now I'm tempted to make a proper mage girl team one day : P
Knowing you can't quit, I decided to YOLO it and see how far I could go. I think I made it to the 5th map somehow XD
Granted, one of them was Desperation Linde. The other was a 4* Tharja decked out with skills and the last one was a 3* Nino with nothing but Gronnblade. None of them had buffs.
Now I'm tempted to make a proper mage girl team one day : P
Pejo
Member
Interesting. I didn't realize you got points for failing. Do you get more for using more than one bonus unit?
SerArthurDayne
Member
Unfortunately I don't have access. I can either go Klein farming or promote Hawkeye. I've been wanting to get it for my Cherche for a while, but she just got bumped down the list, as she isn't used very often anyways, and won't compete for playtime at all with Reinhardt.
I don't really want to waste my soon to be 20k feathers on promoting him though, as I'm close to a horse emblem team.
Thoughts? I have a +spd Leo, probably the worst boon because he is still ridiculously slow. I have neutral Cecilia. And I have Reinhardt. I have Priscilla, but outside of tempest trials I don't see much advantage to her. So I wanted to save to promote Xander or Camus. I like Camus better, but I feel like Xander would probably be better with Leo as my red option. But once I get cavalry buffs Leo might be good enough to pin down greens so I can run two blues instead.
And with the tempest trials , the total score bonus, and arena I will probably have 40k feathers by the end of Tempest, so I do have options. I did want to promote and merge Marth, but that's not urgent, as I have Ike as my best red sword.
No. You get the bonus for playing one character. So if you play Tharja you get 1.4 x and If you play Lissa you get 1.2x. They do not stack. There are points for each map you complete. On lunatic it's 40. So if you complete 6/7 with Tharja for example you get 40 x 6 x 1.4. If you complete it they stack the bonuses for speed and survival on top.
It would work as long as you give them a great buffer (Eirika or ephraim, even bridal Cordelia could work in this role).
Zippedpinhead
Member
Still nothing from customer support.
I'm mucking about with this other team, but it's really shitty compared to my previous 5* stacked group.
Probably going to quit if this doesn't get a response or anything. I'm just dissapointed in this, worst part is that I have no clue what happened. I still have no clue if it was an error on their end or my pocket pressing buttons on an unlocked phone.
I'm mucking about with this other team, but it's really shitty compared to my previous 5* stacked group.
Probably going to quit if this doesn't get a response or anything. I'm just dissapointed in this, worst part is that I have no clue what happened. I still have no clue if it was an error on their end or my pocket pressing buttons on an unlocked phone.
My first team doesn't always make it to 7th but yeah, that could work. 3rd and 4th team are pretty weak though as none of those character have much SI or work done on them so I dunno.
No, it's like Arena where only one bonus unit is counted. You only need to use the bonus unit in one of your 4 teams too.
Yeah I just did a test myself for science, did the first 4 maps and then pressed Surrender on the 5th map. Seems like you only get 220points for doing the first 4 maps with a bonus unit. I guess that might be worse than the lower difficulty ones?
SerArthurDayne
Member
You will be murdered to death by Tempesr version of Niles and Felicia, though. Resistance sky high, specials on the first counter for Niles at least. And for me they usually appear on the map with breakable walls in the middle where you have to bait.
Second team Ike murders them both and avenges me.
Not that I don't care, just can't help. Wish you luck. I would be pretty upset if my account disappeared. I don't see how butt dialing it would be possible, as there are numerous screens and confirmations.
You made another team after or you always had two accounts? Did you accidentally link one to the same Nintendo account maybe?
Pejo
Member
Thanks for that explanation. I've been going about this all wrong for the bonus. I've been saving Tharja to use after my first team makes it to the last level, then swapping her in for the kill. This should help my score out quite a bit doing it the right way.
Thanks for this as well. I think I'll stick with the Hard 5 battle run and just get as many wins with my Tharja team as I can.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Just to clarify, in case I wasn't absolutely clear. It doesn't matter if your bonus character lives or not. For example, you could put a level 1 male Robin 3 star out solo as your team 1. And then immediately surrender and put in team 2. You will get the 1.4x bonus even if you never play another bonus hero. It locks on for your entire run as soon as they are on at least one team that enters combat, and it doesn't matter if it's the first team or last team.
Wait, does this mean you don't actually have to use the bonus unit in a battle? Could I put the -ATK Nowi i've been using on my last team, and just use my first team to clear everything, and still get the bonus?
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