Vantage activates first, I'm pretty sure. The problem with running it as a counter to Nino Kuni is that it will never trigger because Nino Kuni is built around getting ORKOs.
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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT|Natural Selection Simulator
- Thread starter Shun
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Vantage: Attack first when defending
Desperation: 2 attacks (if possible) before the enemy can counter.
Ya I figured it was something to that end. The question then is there a build that can be made that puts even dumb-ass AI into Vantage? 
We must theory-craft this counter to Cerium and email it to IS! (Or... I'll just email them better AI routines.)
Meanwhile, my opinion on Jaffar has done a pretty hard 180 from about a week or two ago now, and I think he may actually be one of the best Neutral/Assassins in the game. I think he's actually better than Kagero due to her pathetic health bar and her ineffectiveness against non-infantry.
So I started looking at his numbers and he definitely has a bruiser archetype to his stats in that he has deceptively high health, defense, and resistance in conjunction with a high-bar speed stat and can tank a hit. His effective "defense" is high across the board due to the conjunction of his health and his defensive stats. I also started looking at some numbers and, in general from experience with fights in Arena from him, his attack is too low to ever seemingly OHKO any mage that isn't, say, Sanaki with comical defense values. So that led me to thinking about this:
This would be done with Desperation as his B-slot regardless, since as noted he is going to almost inevitably trade with anything he attacks and almost assuredly double it as well unless its the highest of tier speedsters in the game. All in all, he seems to *only* really lose L&D3's +2 speed at the cost of his defense over Fury3 because the extra +2 attack between L&D3 and Fury3 does not open any obvious "one hit kills" due to his low base attack (even if his unique weapon compensate for this aggressively, boasting the highest damage dagger in the game).
(That said, Jaffar does lose to Kagero in a 1v1. But I believe he offers considerably more utility due to the fact that he can, in general, tank hits and put himself into Desperation for free while serving as a meatshield.)
We must theory-craft this counter to Cerium and email it to IS! (Or... I'll just email them better AI routines.)
Meanwhile, my opinion on Jaffar has done a pretty hard 180 from about a week or two ago now, and I think he may actually be one of the best Neutral/Assassins in the game. I think he's actually better than Kagero due to her pathetic health bar and her ineffectiveness against non-infantry.
So I started looking at his numbers and he definitely has a bruiser archetype to his stats in that he has deceptively high health, defense, and resistance in conjunction with a high-bar speed stat and can tank a hit. His effective "defense" is high across the board due to the conjunction of his health and his defensive stats. I also started looking at some numbers and, in general from experience with fights in Arena from him, his attack is too low to ever seemingly OHKO any mage that isn't, say, Sanaki with comical defense values. So that led me to thinking about this:
This would be done with Desperation as his B-slot regardless, since as noted he is going to almost inevitably trade with anything he attacks and almost assuredly double it as well unless its the highest of tier speedsters in the game. All in all, he seems to *only* really lose L&D3's +2 speed at the cost of his defense over Fury3 because the extra +2 attack between L&D3 and Fury3 does not open any obvious "one hit kills" due to his low base attack (even if his unique weapon compensate for this aggressively, boasting the highest damage dagger in the game).
(That said, Jaffar does lose to Kagero in a 1v1. But I believe he offers considerably more utility due to the fact that he can, in general, tank hits and put himself into Desperation for free while serving as a meatshield.)
theprodigy
Member
just run 4 Green Tomebreaker Sanakis to troll people using Nino even if said team is a joke that gets stomped by blues /s
Does Sanaki even need Tomebreaker? That Res stat is fucking absurd, or is it to double Nino back and ORKO?
A little late to the party, but I took down 4* Navarre. Less an issue of having difficulty and more that I kept spending my stamina to level up my new Hinoka.
Had to use Ephraim to tank some hits and the escape route 2 that I gave to MRobin saved his life. I basically used the strategy that a lot of people used, of luring out the Ninjas with MRobin before backing up, taking out the isolated Ninjas and Navarre, then finishing the green unit and healer off.
Not really sure why I bothered to be honest. Navarre really isn't that great a unit unless there's some hidden depth to him that I'm not seeing. Guess it's something to do.
I've reached the point now where I really wish I had 5 characters slots in a party. MRobin is mandatory despite me not liking him too much just because of Takumi. My only reliable anti-mage unit is Rebecca (don''t laugh, I've had bad luck with archer pulls). I need a red sword because who doesn't, then my 4th slot is locked to Raven who I've built to absolutely destroy anyone that gets close to him who isn't red. I'd really like to add Hinoka to my main team, but getting rid of either Robin or Rebecca seems nonviable and I'd have gaps in my colour coverage if I remove anyone else. Maybe I'll build a flier emblem team around her or something.
Had to use Ephraim to tank some hits and the escape route 2 that I gave to MRobin saved his life. I basically used the strategy that a lot of people used, of luring out the Ninjas with MRobin before backing up, taking out the isolated Ninjas and Navarre, then finishing the green unit and healer off.
Not really sure why I bothered to be honest. Navarre really isn't that great a unit unless there's some hidden depth to him that I'm not seeing. Guess it's something to do.
I've reached the point now where I really wish I had 5 characters slots in a party. MRobin is mandatory despite me not liking him too much just because of Takumi. My only reliable anti-mage unit is Rebecca (don''t laugh, I've had bad luck with archer pulls). I need a red sword because who doesn't, then my 4th slot is locked to Raven who I've built to absolutely destroy anyone that gets close to him who isn't red. I'd really like to add Hinoka to my main team, but getting rid of either Robin or Rebecca seems nonviable and I'd have gaps in my colour coverage if I remove anyone else. Maybe I'll build a flier emblem team around her or something.
I mean this is why the characters around Nino are built to kill characters like Sanaki.
But what if we merged the four Sanaki's into one Super-Sanaki? Made her colorless, gave her 100 speed, and her unique B ability was: B: Nino instantly dies upon start of battle.
What then!?
Meanwhile, here is Hector/Effie in Arena as AI:
That will be on a banner someday probably.
Wait, the same xp hardcap exists at all levels? Killing a level 30 character is worth the exact same as a level 1 character (assuming your unit isn't more than 5 levels higher)? No wonder people were rejoicing about the xp bit in the spring update notes. Now I really need that update to get here sooner.
And yeah, burning a Starting/First Stratum round to shuffle everything else is about all that can be done, I guess, though the game still tries to troll me by continually picking stratum levels so the target unit I'm training is too high to get exp from the lower bound but too low to hold their own against the upper bound.
Sigh, now it's time for the gauntlet again, where your success is directly depending on how much RNG decides to screw you over with team comp and map layout.
Is it worth it to make Neutral Kagero a Takumi Killer? I was looking into the damage calculator and it seems like I've got a couple options to make her able to OHKO him. The easiest way would be making her inherit Attack +3, but then I'd lose warding blow and I never really thought about how useful that is...
What other options would I have? Currently my Takumi plan revolves around bonking him in the face with Young Tiki, but it's not always feasible.
What other options would I have? Currently my Takumi plan revolves around bonking him in the face with Young Tiki, but it's not always feasible.
You should be able to equip Bowbreaker if Takumi is really giving you that much trouble.
But then what about other Kageros 😧
I might be overestimating the troubles Takumis are giving me but I'm having a pretty good time in arena aside from some Takumi-wipes from time to time. The real answer would be play some more arena and see how much warding blow is helping me, but I'm waiting for the duel sword refresh so I just asked~
toastyToast
Member
Camilla is gonna win right? I hate that garbage character
Join team Cherche!
Yes fight the Nohrian scum with Hinoka!
theprodigy
Member
This is some garbage seeding, does anyone really take anyone on the right side of the bracket over anyone on the left side?
Even with atk+3, a neutral Kagero is still a little bit shy of one-shotting neutral Takumi. You need to put a atk buff on her to do the job. I'd also prefer fury 3 over attack+3, and for B slot I suggest Vantage, gotta bait those mages into suicides.
dreamlongdead
Member
Laughing hard right now.
One of my Arena opponents had Quick Riposte 1 on their Hector.
One of my Arena opponents had Quick Riposte 1 on their Hector.
toastyToast
Member
Do you actually need the character in the battle though? I have Cordelia, Cherche and Subaki
Nah, you just get 10 more points if you use the character in battle.
theprodigy
Member
eww got a 4411 score in arena but that run was hot garbage
It's more accurate to say that using the ballot character nets a 10% point bonus.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Team Beruka!
Anyone?
Anyone?
Team Beruka!
Anyone?
I'd be with you all the way, but I'm already pledged to team Hinoka and battling the cow monster. If Beruka somehow makes it through to the second round, I'll join up since I have a feeling Hinoka's not making it past this round (9,359,005 vs 59,623,682 currently :'(), even though I'm going to be dumping all of my flags per day into her army.
Managed to net an arena score of 4259 for this week. Not as good as my average but considering I was using a 4* Sophia, I feel that it's borderline-miraculous that I managed to break 4k at all.
toastyToast
Member
lol everyone is using archers now
ran into a quadsuna. 4 stars and 35 speed with a brave bow wtf
ran into a quadsuna. 4 stars and 35 speed with a brave bow wtf
SenorArdilla
Member
I'll probably dump a couple feathers to maintain a high standing for Round One. Then I'll jump on the Camilla train after Cherche loses.
TheRedSnifit
Member
WTF is with that Camilla bandwagonthough I have to admit I'm guilty of jumping on that bandwagon for some guaranteed feather gain but now I regret it as the internal rank competition will be so ridiculously fierce
Boobs
dreamlongdead
Member
I got 4468 on a perfect run. Considerably lower than my last few seasons, but I needed to make adjustments for sanity's sake. I subbed Marth with Sanaki, because I was having a lot of trouble with Green Mages. She OHKOs Hector, too!
I think it was a good decision, though my score potential went down a bit. 4* Michalis is dragging it down too, but his lack of usefulness on the battlefield is a far bigger problem.
Still satisfied to have a perfect streak this season, and I expect to land between 10K and 30K.
I'm backing Palla in the Voting Gauntlet right now.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I think that after Beruka inevitably loses because she wears clothes, I'll jump to Team Cherche if she's still in it.
Dunno what I'll do if she gets the boot.
Dunno what I'll do if she gets the boot.
SenorArdilla
Member
Cherche is already down by nearly 4 million votes.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Nah. Everyone loves Camilla for her great personality.
If they want these voting gauntlets to stop being a joke any time soon, they need to remove the reward for the army you supported winning a round. I know it removes the purpose of a popularity contest a little but it's become obvious that people are going to go all-in on the choice with the most chance of victory, leading to a snowball effect.
As someone who supported team Lucina (because I like her) from the outset last time, I can understand the despair some people went through better now.
TheRedSnifit
Member
To be fair, I think the reward you get for topping the scoreboard for the losing character is more than the pittance you get for winning.
Cordelia is probably the only person in that gauntlet that can stand up to the Camilla juggernaut. Also isn't Beruka against Subaki right now? That's actually a pretty favorable fight for her.
dreamlongdead
Member
So, I just looked up Sophia's stats for the first time since there was a small discussion about her.
Holy crap at 19 Speed! She is even worse than I imagined. The horrendous speed and lack of major firepower make her incredibly outclassed.
Holy crap at 19 Speed! She is even worse than I imagined. The horrendous speed and lack of major firepower make her incredibly outclassed.
TheRedSnifit
Member
That's true, but we didn't know it until now. I joined the Camilla bandwagon thinking about feathers; I expected Camilla to win, but by something like 2:1, not 6:1 as it looks like now. Yes, it turns out there are lots of people who thought similarly as I did and we are now screwing ourselves over, but we didn't know that until we found out about it 1 hour after we hopped on the bandwagon: oh shit, there are too many of us...
Lesson learned: next time when I don't have a character that I actually care and I only want to maximize feather gain without much effort, I will wait an hour or two after the opening until I have a clear idea of what to expect.
Not certain if most people understand that, though. Maybe the feeling of winning is greater than the reward to some people?
It's become more convoluted this time around as well, because you can get 1105 flags per day due to the gauntlet quests refreshing. Before you could go all-in on a character and end up near the top of the army scoreboard, get a massive reward for your support in that round, then lose out later on when you joined another army and had no flags to spend to rank up in the new army you joined.
Now, since everyone can gain and spend the maximum amount of flags per day, there's no flag management aspect and so the people that supported a character since the start can never be caught by those joining the army in a later round assuming they keep obtaining and using all available flags.
Oddly, it seems that with the current system, the ideal team to support would be the one to lose in the finals since you'll be able to maintain a high army rank easier than the winning team and still get 2 of the 3 victory bonuses.
I might be misunderstanding something about the way the gauntlet works in regards to how people are rewarded, though, since things seem pretty nonsensical the way I perceive them. Maybe army rank doesn't carry over between rounds in which case it's just down to how many battles you can do per day and if you have the army leader as your team leader.
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