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Fire Emblem Heroes |OT|The Future of Fire Emblem
- Thread starter Shun
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She is good. Has good stats and great skillset but is a green dragon so is poorly positioned in Arena meta. So use her with responsability.
Gah. This explains why I would randomly die to one of them.
Man. I have Eirika and the 20k Feathers for Sharena with pretty good other tank and dancer resources to fill the gap (or generic Takumi). Now if only I could find a Nino (or Tharja!) ;_; Been pulling for either of them for awhile now, please show me some love game
After using him in arena for a bit, I've grown to be a fan of Ephraim. Even with only 25 speed, he functions well enough to deal with red units. Even more satisfying is when he Threaten Debuffs a ranged unit, then suddenly slams Siegmund in for absurd damage. His attack is also large enough to make a significant dent in green units especially with Moonbow, which came in handy once or twice.
I still would have preferred a different nature from +HP/-Def though.
I still would have preferred a different nature from +HP/-Def though.
3 extra speed going from 34spd to 37spd doesn't really do much for her, evaluated in a vacuum. The characters you're going to double because of that gain includes Jeorge, Kagero, Merric, Elise, M Corrin, Palla, Jakob, Roy, Serra, Eliwood, Cordelia, Sakura, and Young Tiki. Within the list probably only Young Tiki will be common enough and troublesome enough. But F Corrin still takes three hits to kill Young Tiki so that's not really an important enough gain in my opnion.
However I would say -def is bad for her if you intend to play her as a debuffer, which requires her to be tanky. I'd say your natures are kind of a wash, it'll depend on the other characters in your team.
goldenpp72
Member
I can not for the life of me beat this robin mission, I have a 40 robin (male), 40 hector, 40 lilina and a 36 olivia.. What should I be doing differently? I don't have Camilia or whatever her name is :/
Hector can tank the opening salvo. IIRC, the only buff I had on him was +speed, and he took out 3 of them with counter attacks. Not sure if IV matters...
Red_taiyaki
Member
Don't use Robin as FemRobin can almost guarantee OHKO against him. Who else do you have?
Yes. Gronnblade and Tharja's equivalent, are there for the combo players. Like me! Anyone can stack a team with awesome units if they pay for it. I've never drawn a single 5-star, and I've spent nearly all the free orbs we get on rolls.
But I did read that little insignificant line on the Gronnbalde: "Adds total bonuses on unit to damage dealt" And tested that yes, it does exactly that. It also makes Nino's purple skill charge slower... or it would if she had one! All the power, none of the drawback! Except, you know she has that, too. Draw Back.
Actually, I'd keep Olivia. My team core is Nino, Sharena, and Olivia. Do 12x2 more damage... twice! My fourth is Adult Tiki, she's my tank. She makes Camilla sad, but really dislikes blue magic. But with the Nino-nuke setup, anything blue is... temporary. Robin. Female Corrin. Nowi. Green swords from above!
Man thanks for the analysis! Even though this game looks quite simple and I seem to do OK I'm properly lost at sea with all this stuff. How would I work out what you have done so quickly? Is there a tool or spreadsheet or something I plug numbers into? It takes me long enough cross referencing my characters against http://feheroes.wiki/Hero_List to see what their IVs are (and why are they called IVs..?)
It took a few tries, but I got 3* Robin with my team of Marth, Robin (M), Hinoka, and Elise. Robin went to distract the axe guy for a bit while Marth tanked some damage from the enemy mages. Next turn, Marth killed Robin (F), Hinoka dealt with the blue mage, and Elise healed Marth (I stupidly forgot to wait an extra turn for the Falchion heal). Then, Elise and Hinoka killed the lance guy, Marth took out axe guy, and Robin finished off the red mage.
IVs are a misnomer. /shrug
You can use the max stats page, http://feheroes.wiki/Stats_Table to sort the speed of characters. You do 2x attacks when your speed - enemy speed >= 5. So by going from 34 spd to 37 spd, you are now able to do 2x attacks on characters with 30, 31, and 32 spd which you can see to be the characters that I listed. After that it's just a general familiarity of what each character can do in the list and how dangerous they are.
flatearthpandas
Member
Hard mode Robin is killing me.
Understood. Thanks for the tips. I think I need to school up on the nuances past the colour triangle..
One more question; do buffs from multiple allies to the same stat stack?
I still don't know if multiple spur buffs (i.e. spur attack) stack. But persistent buffs (hone and rally and things like eirika's weapon) do not stack, only the best one applies. In combat buffs (spur and goad buffs) do stack with persistent buffs. Conditional self-buffs (i.e. defiant attack, darting blow) are also considered separately and do stack with the other two.
So you can stack Hone Attack, Spur Attack, and Defiant Attack 3 to get 4 + 4 + 7 = 15attack buff on the same combat round. Can you add another spur attack on top of that? I'm not sure.
I'm not sure if conditional self-buffs work for weapons like Nino/Tharja/Odin's, but in-combat buffs don't and persistent buffs definitely do.
shoryukens
Member
How does female Robin compare to Cecilia? Are they more or less the same in terms of strength?
I would prefer Cecilia due to colorless advantage.
The wiki tier list now places Minerva ahead of Anna. Thoughts? She has some interesting abilities.
Although it also places Raven equal to Anna and that I just don't agree with.
OK so the reason I'm asking is last week I pulled a Nino and read about a buff team with Olivia. On the last page it got mentioned again so reminded me to have a pop at building around Nino..
So what I have is:
TEAM CORE
Nino
no idea on IVs as have just been using her. what should I be looking for if this character is going to be the core of my team?
DANCER
Olivia
Hone Attack buff
(raised from the one I won in the daily so no idea on IVs, though I pulled a 2nd since who has +spd -hp, any good?)
BUFFERS?
Caeda
Rally Speed & Fortify Res buffs
Marth
Spur Speed buff
Sharena
Rally Attack & Fortify Def buffs
Tharja
Spur Res buff (+ she has Rauðrblade which can gain buffs too!)
Which of Olivia, Caeda, Marth, Sharena or Tharja should I use to make up the best team to support Nino? Is there an optimal set off allies to pair up with Nino that I'm missing from this list?
Can anyone with 5* Anna tell me how much SP Nóatún costs? I'm trying to figure out how far I need to level my Anna before promoting her and how much total SP I'll need.
Vantage 3 requires 200 SP
Spur Res 3 requires 200 SP
Astra requires 200 SP
Nóatún requires... 200 SP?
I have 164 SP right now at 4* level 22. I was thinking of promoting immediately after getting one of the above, but then I would still need 600 more SP and I'm not sure if I'd get that going from 1 to 40.
How much SP do you get going from 1 to 40 anyway?
Vantage 3 requires 200 SP
Spur Res 3 requires 200 SP
Astra requires 200 SP
Nóatún requires... 200 SP?
I have 164 SP right now at 4* level 22. I was thinking of promoting immediately after getting one of the above, but then I would still need 600 more SP and I'm not sure if I'd get that going from 1 to 40.
How much SP do you get going from 1 to 40 anyway?
Technoweirdo
Member
Female Robin thoughts:
- -1 Atk compared to Male Robin, BOOOOOOOOOO
- No colorless triangle advantage. Not the end of the world when healers are pretty rare (though I have to say I think a few might actually -win- vs. Robin) and nobody runs with archers or ninjas not named Takumi or Kagero, but not winning a ranged battle isn't doing her any favors
+- Defiant Res, which makes her better in the green mage v. green mage matchup that she doesn't really like from the start and will not stop her from getting blown up by green mages not named Cecilia. Of course, the same can be said for Male Robin who hates the blue mage v. blue mage matchup as both of them have shit for Res. At least Defiant Res would give her a shot of surviving another hit, I suppose. Perhaps in time for a critical Ignis proc. idk
+- Ignis. Bonfire is quicker. Ignis hits harder.
+- Anti-cavalry magic. When you consider that there are 13 cavaliers in the game so far (17 including bosses) and consider that there are 20 grays in the game (and two of them are cavalry), it doesn't sound -too- bad a trade. Odd how there's so few cavalry though. I'm pretty sure cavalry would always outnumber healers/archers/thieves. Maybe someday there'll be a cavalry insurgence for her to shine in.
+ Blue mage = (almost) free. Honestly, I'd prefer Triangle Adept so that blue anything would be 100% free. Not like she'll take on a red mage / dragon / swordsman any time soon. Then again, it'd screw with her ability to kill red cavalry. Hm...
As an interesting note, Male Robin, despite WTA, gets roasted by Lilina in a 1v1. Meanwhile, Blue Tomebreaker stops Female Robin from getting roasted by any blue mage, including Linde. Seriously, their Res is -terrible- for the mage v. mage matchup, nor are they the fastest nor hardest-hitting.
---
If you're looking for a free gray counter, look somewhere else (though I should mention Takumi would lose if he initiates because his Res is just that bad). If you're looking for a counter to a possible cavalry meta, look no further. She'll take physical hits harder than Raigh (i.e. won't be completely miserable against archers or melee attackers that managed to close the distance, including the cavalry she's meant to take on). She'll also win her intended good matchups. Raigh'll melt against green mages he's meant to win against. She won't against the blues.
But the horse meta has to come first. >.>
Competent, but not amazing until a horse-heavy meta comes / 10
- -1 Atk compared to Male Robin, BOOOOOOOOOO
- No colorless triangle advantage. Not the end of the world when healers are pretty rare (though I have to say I think a few might actually -win- vs. Robin) and nobody runs with archers or ninjas not named Takumi or Kagero, but not winning a ranged battle isn't doing her any favors
+- Defiant Res, which makes her better in the green mage v. green mage matchup that she doesn't really like from the start and will not stop her from getting blown up by green mages not named Cecilia. Of course, the same can be said for Male Robin who hates the blue mage v. blue mage matchup as both of them have shit for Res. At least Defiant Res would give her a shot of surviving another hit, I suppose. Perhaps in time for a critical Ignis proc. idk
+- Ignis. Bonfire is quicker. Ignis hits harder.
+- Anti-cavalry magic. When you consider that there are 13 cavaliers in the game so far (17 including bosses) and consider that there are 20 grays in the game (and two of them are cavalry), it doesn't sound -too- bad a trade. Odd how there's so few cavalry though. I'm pretty sure cavalry would always outnumber healers/archers/thieves. Maybe someday there'll be a cavalry insurgence for her to shine in.
+ Blue mage = (almost) free. Honestly, I'd prefer Triangle Adept so that blue anything would be 100% free. Not like she'll take on a red mage / dragon / swordsman any time soon. Then again, it'd screw with her ability to kill red cavalry. Hm...
As an interesting note, Male Robin, despite WTA, gets roasted by Lilina in a 1v1. Meanwhile, Blue Tomebreaker stops Female Robin from getting roasted by any blue mage, including Linde. Seriously, their Res is -terrible- for the mage v. mage matchup, nor are they the fastest nor hardest-hitting.
---
If you're looking for a free gray counter, look somewhere else (though I should mention Takumi would lose if he initiates because his Res is just that bad). If you're looking for a counter to a possible cavalry meta, look no further. She'll take physical hits harder than Raigh (i.e. won't be completely miserable against archers or melee attackers that managed to close the distance, including the cavalry she's meant to take on). She'll also win her intended good matchups. Raigh'll melt against green mages he's meant to win against. She won't against the blues.
But the horse meta has to come first. >.>
Competent, but not amazing until a horse-heavy meta comes / 10
I disagree with this completely, completely.
37 Speed is a big deal because it lets you double every neutral natured red sword user in the game after speed buff. If your pair her up with Olivia, you can double pretty much anyone after her debuff activates. It also prevents her from being double by +Speed Lucina, and anything in the 39~42 range. The 3 extra Speed is absolutely a game changer, and -hp/spd is easily her best iv combination.
That's why I said evaluated in a vacuum. Evaluating enemy natures and considering the possibility of your other characters giving you buffs is silly because the possibilities increase tenfold. That's not a way to do a single character evaluation. What if that +spd Lucina you're fighting against also have other characters giving her speed buffs? Then +spd becomes useless again. If we want to go that far, how about we start with calculating the possibility of someone using a +spd Lucina?
From that list, I'd be really tempted to do a Caeda, Sharena, Nino, and Olivia team.
Sharena and Caeda buffing Nino. +Atk, +Def, +Spd, +Res. I'd almost want to see just how much damage that translates to in a real fight. You could actually get the theoretical persistent +20 damage going there! But remember that your units have to be able to fight on their own, too. There are enemies you really don't want to point Nino at. Just as she annihilates male Robin, she folds quickly to red magic or a sword. Which is why Sharena is such a good friend.
As for what stats Nino wants. Attack and Speed should probably not be negative. +Speed puts her in the really fun end of gofast, and +Attack just adds to the sheer power she can output. My own is +Def -Res. That Defense has been the difference between victory and defeat several times, but really, I think the only thing you absolutely don't want in a Nino is -Speed. When you're at +12-20 damage per attack, the second attack matters!
You also need to remember the difference between Spur and Hone/Fortify skills. Spur works when they are side by side as the battle happens. Hone/Fortify persists until the start of the next Player Phase. Rallies, too.
Really, Nino is the kind of character that shines the more you build a team around her. But she doesn't just slot into any team. She is a great way to learn how the buffs work in the game, too. When the right positioning and buffs can make a combat preview go from "Enemy survives with 12 HP" to "Enemy is Defeated" due to careful buff management.
But it is a gimmick team, and you need to be really on top of things. When everything comes together, you're doing ~50x2 damage. Twice per round. But Nino is fragile, she can only kill one Takumi before she's in danger. If Nino falls, your team is in trouble. So ask yourself if the team still works when she's down. Because it will happen. In part due to player error and in part from just flatout being countered at times. If you see more than one enemy Young Tiki... be very careful with Nino, for instance.
michaelius
Banned
Orb prices are so bad that either you need to go full whale mode or keep being F2P since throwing few bucks won't do anything.
goldenpp72
Member
I have a 5 star jakob, and then a lot of 4 stars like ..
Abel
Sharena
Gwendolyn
Shanna
Male Corrin
Nowi
Roy
Kagero
Saizo
Most of them in their 30s, i'd work on them if it could help.
Your assessment ("both of those natures are a wash") is still wrong though. 37 Speed objectively prevents you from being doubled by most of the metagame, and it lets you double most of the metagame after a buff. 34 flat out prevents you from doing that. Here's an example:
37 Speed Corrin is able to roll over neutral Marth after a buff. I was able to double max Speed Takumi too (36) after a Dance as well. I couldn't have done either of these things with 34 Speed. Even in a vacuum, 37 is incredibly appealing with support. Corrin's speed is arguably her biggest advantage over Nowi.
Yeah, in practice there are going to be a lot of random buffs and different IVs on both sides such that rather than being able to count on particular speed deltas in different matchups you're looking at more of a probability distribution of speeds that you're going to come up against even for particular characters. That's exactly why +Spd is such an all-around great property for almost every character, since it'll often come in handy against a huge range of characters. We don't need to do an explicit calculation to observe that she's actually likely to get a much bigger benefit out of having +Spd than just having an advantage over baby Tiki. I mean, Corrin herself is often going to be applying a Spd debuff to things that will attack her next turn.
FTR I'd agree that -HP/+Spd is the nature I'd want on a Corrin. You certainly don't want to give up any attack and if you have to sacrifice some tankiness HP is clearly the least desirable tank stat on an already-tanky character.
I don't remember specifics but I didn't have any trouble maxing Anna by 5* level 40 leveling her only slightly above 20 at 4*. You get a lot more SP for later levels than early ones.
Awesome! Thanks for the insight. I'll give that build a pop, will take a bit of training to get all the chars cooking but it will be (hopefully) worth it for the luls.
Totally understand its a gimmick build, but I need to find a bit more fun from the game as my day to day team is super solid but a bit.. boring. Also as you say it will help me understand the game mechanics more balancing this house of cards!
Thank you so much.
Dark Breath is an interesting point. Unless you're dancing FCorrin for her to make her attack again, -spd would affect other characters you have so it's also harder to evaluate when we do not know what team she's working with. Defensively it also changes the calculations because that means prior she gets doubled by 39+ spd characters on a neutral nature, she now gets doubled by 44+spd characters. If she has +spd, she gets doubled by 42+ spd characters and gets doubled by 47+spd characters post dark breath.
Only four characters have natural 39 speed and above, that's Linde, Fir, Hana, and Lon'qu. In effect +spd doesn't do that much for her even in the Dark Breath scenario aside from saving another combat round where she has to attack again to kill.
We should also consider that it's less likely that characters have -spd/+spd natures compared to natures that doesn't change speed at all considering all the possible permutation of natures in the game. There is also a ceiling on how useful +spd natures are depending on your base speed and abilities. Hana already has 42 spd, would +spd be useful in the special case where your enemy Lucina has also +spd and also buffs on her? Sure, but the advantage of more speed is less when you're at the extreme compared to when you're at the margins where your speed almost lets you double the popular metagame characters.
I think it's 1-10: 54 (no SP for level 1), 11-20: 120, 21-30: 180, 31-40: 240
Since we're kinda talking in a world where everyone could have potential access to speed buffs, here's the list of characters that can grant speed buffs to others.
Rally Speed: Caeda/Gaius/Seliph
Spur Spd 3: Jeorge/Lyn/Marth/Palla/Saizo
Hone Spd 3: Laslow/Matthew/Ryoma/Eirika
Depending on which meta you live in (depending on your team composition), it could be common enough or not so common. The reb orb from the family bonds banner is really good if you want to roll a speed buffer at all costs.
Rally Speed: Caeda/Gaius/Seliph
Spur Spd 3: Jeorge/Lyn/Marth/Palla/Saizo
Hone Spd 3: Laslow/Matthew/Ryoma/Eirika
Depending on which meta you live in (depending on your team composition), it could be common enough or not so common. The reb orb from the family bonds banner is really good if you want to roll a speed buffer at all costs.
Splendid!
ZSaberLink
Media Create Maven
So is a -Atk Nino still worth it then with the proper team? I know it's not obviously ideal, but her weapon's skill seems to make up for it to an extent.
Don't forget Hinoka, who has Hone Spd 2. Unfortunately the third tier is replaced by Hone Fliers, so other characters do the buffing better, but it's still something.
There is no "besides". Currently, that's the only option you have. Hope Galeforce was worth it (I have Lyn as well and it's totally worth it).
Kill enemies in the tower. 3SP per kill for enemies near your level.
This one is actually a big deal. Part of why Male Robin is so fire is due to his ability to destroy Takumi, who is ubiquitous, and not instantly die against Kagero.
Agree, though as far as Defiant skills go, Defiant Speed is 100x better than Defiant Res.
Quicker proc skills > Slower but stronger proc skills nearly every time.
Cavaliers are fairly niche, and Female Robin's effectiveness against them isn't that noteworthy. It's not like with Male Robin, where it directly aids in his matchup against Takumi and Kagero (again, super relevant characters.) Hers only comes in handy in like 2~ matchups. This is an extremely bad trade.
Just want to point out that there are only 3 blue mages atm. :X
Unless I screwed up with my math, he trades with Lilina on enemy phase (unless she's +attack and boosted).
superdeluxe
Member
Is their a list showing all the axe, sword, lancers?
I'm having such an easier time leveling my 4* Female Corrins compared to my 3* Female Corrins. Dark Breath and Draconic Gaze make such a huge difference.
Just repeating that I am leveling up spare female Corrins to promote and merge to my 5* Female Corrin.
Finished three 3* versions, still have one more and two 4* versions to get to level 20.
Just repeating that I am leveling up spare female Corrins to promote and merge to my 5* Female Corrin.
Finished three 3* versions, still have one more and two 4* versions to get to level 20.
I just beat Hard Robin with my 4* L.40 Kagero finally. I had to use a Spd buffer to beat it, as 4* Kagero has 30 spd neutral at 40, which is not enough to x2 any of the enemies. I went looking through my roster and found i had a 4* L.20 Gaius with Rally Speed that can bump her up to 34 Spd, which is enough to x2 every enemy on the map. My other units were 4* L.35 Olivia and 4* L.40 Adult Tiki.
I set up Kagero on the edge of the danger zone with Gaius behind her, Tiki and Olivia on either side of him.
Then I had Gaius Rally Speed Kagero, she went right and up and ORKO the Axer. Olivia moved into Kagero's former spot on the edge of the danger zone. End turn.
The blue and red mages attacked Kagero and died from her counterattacks, leaving her at 7 hp. The Lancer moved left 2 spots, right below the water spot. Robin moved left 1 spot, right below the Lancer.
I had Gaius move right 2 spots and Rally Speed Kagero again, who then moved right 1 spot and ORKO the Lancer on the other side of the water spot below her. I had Olivia move right and up and Dance Kagero, so Kagero could move up and right, out of Robin's range (7 hp not enough to survive her attack). I had Tiki move next to Gaius to buff his Res with Spur Res, though he would barely survive without it anyway.
Robin attacked Gaius but he lived. I had Tiki go zap her face, then had Kagero finish her off.
Didn't think I could beat this map with no good 5* units, but 4* Kagero continues to carry me, with a little help from Gaius this time. I like that this map made me use a unit i'd forgotten about, good challenging design.
If you attempt to replicate this, do note that my Kagero is +Atk/-Def. I'm not sure if her counters would have killed the red/blue mages if neutral Atk. Most likely they still would, but just wanted to give a heads up.
Yeah. She obviously won't hit as hard as a neutral one, but just subrtact three from the numbers we've talked about here and that's what yours can do. She'll still counter Male Robin, she'll still have a severe hatred for the color blue in general. You may want to be more careful when nuking red sword lords with her, though. It's not as safe as it could be if you can't take them out.
For the hard robin mission - Just put up my level 40 young tiki in the danger zone and she counter attacked the axe guy and tanked the two mages with 17 hp remaining. Next round used her to kill the green with aoe effect and that damaged the two blue units. Used takumi twice with Olivia dance to kill off the the two damaged blue ones. Thankfully the remaining red mage attacked Olivia and she survived the one hit and I was able to finish the mission.
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