theprodigy
Member
When are they ever not?
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Fire Emblem if |Import OT| ~Should I Marry My Siblings Or Should I Kill Them?~
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
When are they ever not?
I guess always, lol.
3/5 stars, burn it to the ground!
I only read the 1 or 2 star reviews though, with the most prominent 1 star effectively being a long, long review on how this wasn't old Fire Emblem. "Wearing its skin" so to speak.
My friend has wrapped up her run of Birthright/Hoshido, and she'll be starting the third path soon. Her opinion is overall unchanged aside from Hoshido being very easy after starting with Nohr first (and she recommends starting the other way around for a better experience if you plan on playing all the paths), and she's really come to like the cast.
BUT...
Story is bad. At this point, she ranks it only barely above Awakening, which has been a big disappointment
. But everything is so much better about the game's core design and content that she's overall happy with the game and what she paid for it.
Overall its not quite two Awakenings worth of raw content when you write it all down on paper and its not a much better story either, but the improvements to the game itself and the better map designs and layout make what is there a lot better in total than Awakening(x2). Also a lot of the pandering features got boring really fast as well as the whole My Castle feature, its not for her but she doesn't care about its inclusion or if they remove it in the next entry. My Castle felt too barebones, like a prototype to something better but as it is, it's just kind of there.
"Hopefully next time they hire a real writer."
BUT...
Story is bad. At this point, she ranks it only barely above Awakening, which has been a big disappointment
too convoluted, really nonsensical
Overall its not quite two Awakenings worth of raw content when you write it all down on paper and its not a much better story either, but the improvements to the game itself and the better map designs and layout make what is there a lot better in total than Awakening(x2). Also a lot of the pandering features got boring really fast as well as the whole My Castle feature, its not for her but she doesn't care about its inclusion or if they remove it in the next entry. My Castle felt too barebones, like a prototype to something better but as it is, it's just kind of there.
"Hopefully next time they hire a real writer."
Chapter 7, dlc gate.
theprodigy
Member
can't tell whether comment was referring to Awakening or Fates
anyway, shared maps after chapter 6 (H=Hoshido, N=Nohr, I=Invisible Kingdom):
H7/I8
H9/N18
H10/I10
H11/N16
H12/N14
H13/N13
H17/N8
H19/N11/I10 (wow, recycled twice)
N10/I14
N15/I19
N20/I9
so there's a total of 6+22*3-12+22=82 maps across all 3 routes (including paralogues)
that's not twice as much content as Awakening lol
can't tell whether comment was referring to Awakening or Fates
Both, probably, lol.
Didn't I say the same? lol Its less content overall, its just better made this time around.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Working my way slowly through this and am on Chapter 10 with the Byakuya path. I think I'm going to drop it down to casual. I'm just not enjoying the battles as much as before, and I don't think I'm really gaining anything by resetting the game and losing 15~ minutes of progress whenever a character dies because of my poor placement.
NeonZ
Member
One base Fates campaign has about as much content as base Awakening though (28 story maps + 14 paralogues vs 26 story maps + 17 paralogues). It just doesn't get to twice as much as Awakening later since there's some content reuse, even more so in Invisible Kingdom, which doesn't add any paralogues and also reuses many story maps.
Awakening did have 6 spotpass paralogues which would push it in front of a base Fates campaign though, but they could still add something like that for Fates.
Fire Emblem has many gameplay-based restrictions that likely limit the pool of writers willing to work with it though. They need a large number of friendly characters, many who need to be throw away, without main story roles after their introduction, in order to allow perma-death, and all those characters likely need to stay fighting together most of the time, since splitting them up has big gameplay effects that would need to be a core part of the game design.
Awakening did have 6 spotpass paralogues which would push it in front of a base Fates campaign though, but they could still add something like that for Fates.
Fire Emblem has many gameplay-based restrictions that likely limit the pool of writers willing to work with it though. They need a large number of friendly characters, many who need to be throw away, without main story roles after their introduction, in order to allow perma-death, and all those characters likely need to stay fighting together most of the time, since splitting them up has big gameplay effects that would need to be a core part of the game design.
Xenoflare
Member
Over the half of the cast will not die no matter what.
Megidolaon
Member
So is there a way to get Ike, Lucina, etc. if you don't have a New 3DS or amiibos? I heard something about code cards or something. Can you use them on a standard 3DS? Then again I have no idea if that's Japan only or if it will be in Fates?
I looked on Serenesforest and Wiki but it's not that specific. Anyone know?
I looked on Serenesforest and Wiki but it's not that specific. Anyone know?
Nope.
Code cards from the tcg aren't coming here most likely (or they're coming here in an alternative method that we have no clue about).
The code cards have the card game art and not the amiibo art.
Prince Marth (not the same as the marth amiibo and he doesn't get the exalted falchion like the Marth Amiibo does)
Masked Lucina (not the same as the Lucina amiibo and she doesn't get the parallel falchion like the Marth Amiibo does)
Pegasus Knight Minerva (who has the pegasus knight class but is basically a dark flier).
The amiibos unlock the amiibo chars with their personal weapons (exalted falchion, parallel falchion, ragnell, and book of thoron) and in the case of Ike and Marth have new art.
You get Minerva, Lucina, and Marth from codes that come when you buy the TCG (Lucina with the Awakening deck, Marth with the Archanea deck, Minerva with a box of booster packs)
Megidolaon
Member
Ahhh, ok. So much new FE stuff, I was confused but that clears things up a lot. Thanks guys.
MissDeviling
Member
That's kind of unfortunate, but in the end, I play FE for its maps, not its stories, so not a huge deal for me. I'll be skipping cutscenes during my replays anyway. As long as the meat of the gameplay is solid, I'm happy.
NeonZ
Member
They were even making fun of Awakening's plot in the Iwata Asks, but that didn't seem to result in a big improvement here, even though the story has more focus here (although the story scenes aren't Radiant Dawn sized either).
I think one of the main issues is that they seem to really want to avoid the old world maps and narration style though. That was a really useful tool to show political situations and give an overall idea of what's going on, or even just background information about the current chapter's location. IF sometimes addresses the later through exposition in the main story itself (although at the cost of making Kamui look like someone who knows nothing about anywhere), but the first one doesn't. The world away from Kamui's eyes basically doesn't exist aside from a couple of specific exceptions.
Still, even aside from that, IF has some really convenient plot devices driving the narrative that could really have been avoided.
Ayup, I appreciated the change in narration, but it does have its drawbacks.
theprodigy
Member
Does the continent they're on even have a name? lol (or for that matter, where's the border?)
It feels like the rest of the world is unimportant until you pass through it, and subsequently becomes irrelevant again once you leave.
It feels like the rest of the world is unimportant until you pass through it, and subsequently becomes irrelevant again once you leave.
Sakura
Member
The lack of a proper map or narration just makes things more confusing to me. I don't really understand where all these countries are, or what their relationships are. They could at least colour code the overworld map thing in game, or have borders or something. It's just totally useless to me in the current form.
For this game though, I just... I don't understand why there isn't more story. It doesn't even have to necessarily be better. This isn't a problem unique to If, but I mean, story sequences before a chapter are often under 5 minutes and then you do the map. Practically none of your comrades, aside from the royal family, exist outside of their specific chapters. There is no real story scenes that take place on the battlefield. There have been SRPG games doing far better stories long before this game, I don't understand why they can't do it here.
This extends to support convos as well. Is it that hard to get a half decent writer to pen out some support convos with actual content? There is no voice acting in the game. It shouldn't be particularly expensive to write more text.
It's like, here is a made up support convo.
Support Convo C: "Hi Kamui" "Hi. Oh you are washing the dishes? Let me help. Oops I broke the dishes I'm so bad at this ha ha."
Support Convo A: "Wow Kamui you are so good at washing dishes now. Even better than me!" "Thank you. But I couldn't have done it without as great a teacher as you!"
Support Convo S: "What's this? Someone put a ring in the sink with the dishes!" "I left it in there for you. I want you to marry me" "Huh? Why? This is so sudden Kamui" "It's not sudden at all. The reason I started washing dishes in the first place was to get close to you. So will you marry me?" "Of course!"
Like what the fuck is this!? I could write that shit, hire me Nintendo.
The games just feel low budget. Hopefully these sales will inspire higher production values for future entries.
NeonZ
Member
As far as the story scenes go, I think it's mostly a budget issue. They clearly want to keep all story scenes in the main story using the combat models, avoiding scenes using just map sprites or talking heads in generic backgrounds (outside of supports and Gaidens), so they must limit the length of story scenes in order to achieve that under their budget. At least this isn't Awakening where, in order to keep that level of presentation, many chapters in the middle of the game basically only had the characters saying a couple of lines before starting the battle.
I agree about the weirdness regarding supports though. Not only are they short and have no voice acting, but they somehow also leave characters with few or no options at all. There are full characters like Ashura, Gunther, Fuuga and Flora, who have almost no supports, and then there are the capturable unique bosses that have no supports at all. And then Amiibo/DLC characters so far also have no supports. IS acts like supports are this high budget affair that makes no sense at all.
The game's text dump was massive it's not so much that its low budget, its just the amount of work to be done for something that not many people really care about is an issue, but I guess this is to be expected with shipping emblem.
I'm cool with the Amiibo's not having supports as they extra characters and are impossible to get.
As for your first part, it's the same issue that Blizzard ran into SC1 > SC2, they changed into in game models instead of talking heads, and the story suffered because of it.
Sakura
Member
It shouldn't be a budget issue though. The game should have a bigger budget.
There are games that sell sub 100k units yet manage to have way more dialogue/story, and also manage to have it fully voiced. I just cannot believe a million, possibly 2 million WW selling game can not afford to have a bit more meat to the story. I hope the next game has higher production values.
There are games that sell sub 100k units yet manage to have way more dialogue/story, and also manage to have it fully voiced. I just cannot believe a million, possibly 2 million WW selling game can not afford to have a bit more meat to the story. I hope the next game has higher production values.
Massive relative to what? What games are you comparing it to to say that it is massive? Also how much of that text is say for example the exact same support convo a child will have with every mother just changed up a little bit?
theprodigy
Member
It's so low budget they couldn't even give weapons and statboosters unique icons.
Is there a guide to who lives regardless of a battle's outcome?
Treehouse was bitching about the size of the text in this game.
There's definitely repetition of the mother-child supports of course inflating that count. But you have male/fem kamui potentially marrying up to 65+ different characters in this game (and that's not including conversations that switch upon gender). You're going to get alot off bullshit with that many characters.
Now include all the parent supports, buddy supports, and husband/wife supports for first gen and second gen, it's just a ton of stuff.
Personally, I wish they removed the children but alot of people seem to enjoy Eugenics ... so shrug.
It's so low budget they couldn't even give weapons and statboosters unique icons.
I found that to be a really odd design choice, why couldn't they just reuse Awakening's? Is the fanbase too stupid to figure it out?
Sakura
Member
Ok, but for one, my main complaint about the text, is the amount of story in the main game, not the support convos. My complaint for support convos is more that they are so poorly written.
If you just played the campaign and ignored the superfluous side stuff, you'd be done in under 20 hours. And most of that is just playing on the actual maps itself. There isn't that much text at all for the main story. It could use a lot more. You could have the standard scene that plays before and after a chapter, but then additional content that you can view if you want to. This way you could also somewhat account for permadeath as you could have side scenes with other characters, but have them not be available if the characters are dead.
Treehouse complaining about the amount of text doesn't mean much to me. Compared to a game like say Fatal Frame yea obviously the game will have way more text. But compared to other SRPGs like say Devil Survivor it has way less.
A text dump will be significantly inflated because of marriage as you say. For example Kamui can marry almost everybody in the game. Children have support convos with their parents. Whatever girl I marry, she will have the same support convo with the kid because it is not unique. So say 500 words times X number of partners... it is sure to inflate the numbers, and that is just for Kamui.
What is a buddy support? A+? Those don't have any text.
They don't but there's more non parental/romance supports a/b/c/ supports (I just used the term buddy supports instead of the non parental/romance supports in this game for convenience sake).
For example
Chrom can support Frederick/Gaius/Lissa and Vaike. Takumi can support Leon/Ryoma/Hinoka/Sakura/Joker and Hinata. It adds up.
edit.
And sorry, I'm still trying to forget Atsuro's english voice acting, ugh. I think this is more dramatic in Japan than in the States here as I thought Overclocked suffered from pretty poor voice acting. As for your complains about the main story, I don't think its so much of a budget issue as more of it's a narrative issue, they clearly went away from world building, and that's a choice that will alienate people.
Just finished Byakuya/Hoshido over the weekend. Quite liked it overall, but it feels like a slight step back from Awakening. Already on my way through Anya/Nohr and trying to decide whether it really warrants another 2000 yen.
My current impression is "Hmmmmmmm..."
Also, story-wise, yes DEFINTELY do Byakuya first. It feels like it makes more sense, and it actually makes Anya that much more bitter.
I've seen people say they really think it's a difficult choice and that the game makes you feel terrible no matter which decision you make, but I totally do not agree with that.
Oh and yes, the writing is pretty bad.
That's not why I play FE though.
My current impression is "Hmmmmmmm..."
Also, story-wise, yes DEFINTELY do Byakuya first. It feels like it makes more sense, and it actually makes Anya that much more bitter.
I've seen people say they really think it's a difficult choice and that the game makes you feel terrible no matter which decision you make, but I totally do not agree with that.
Byakuya IS the correct answer and there's nothing the game throws at you to make you think otherwise.
Oh and yes, the writing is pretty bad.
That's not why I play FE though.
Xenoflare
Member
I thought Overclocked's voice acting was fine :/ I liked Spike Spencer's Atsuro.
But Midori good god she needs to be muted, she's part of the reason why I hated Golden Chie because they shared the same VA, but Chie is less over the top.
Seriously I actually looked up guides to see if I can avoid her recruitment and I was bummed out that she will be saved no matter what, fortunately she doesn't talk as much once she joined.
Record Breaker has a better dub overall with people questioning Jungo's voice, I was fine with it though
It's not so much the voice actor I had an issue with it but more the character. In all honesty, I don't think the voice acting was that bad ... it's just very hard to westernize a truly Japanese game like that and ... it just didn't work for me (which is odd because P4G DID WORK for me I don't know why one did and the other one didn't, maybe it was the Tokyo effect).
I have Record Breaker but yet to pop it open. I should go and beat Overclocked but I just didn't find the gameplay that fun tbh (I just rather play SMT4).
Megidolaon
Member
I'm trying to avoid spoilers so I haven't read much about the 3rd path or any of the story really, but I have a question.
Would it be fair to say the 3rd path is the "true" path that has the most "conclusive" ending? I guess with Hoshido and Nohr being so different, I just wanna know is there's a "canon" path?
Would it be fair to say the 3rd path is the "true" path that has the most "conclusive" ending? I guess with Hoshido and Nohr being so different, I just wanna know is there's a "canon" path?
Sakura
Member
It kind of is yea. But that doesn't mean the other routes aren't conclusive. I'm not really sure if there would be a canon path.
Also I wouldn't really say Hoshido and Nohr are that different.
Megidolaon
Member
Ok, that makes sense. Yeah, i'm gonna play all 3 anyway, though.
theprodigy
Member
So, are there translated supports for Takumi/Sakura, Leon/Elise, and Leon/Hinoka out there yet?
(also lol at Amazon's "sales" right now, though you can get all 3 routes for ¥7475 lol)
(also lol at Amazon's "sales" right now, though you can get all 3 routes for ¥7475 lol)
theprodigy
Member
okay, how does the experience formula even work in this game? specifically, in how it treats promoted units, because Camilla and Leon seem to get different results
edit: and promoted Kamui and Marx don't line up with either of those two lol
edit: seems like Camilla has +15, Leon +18, Marx/promoted Kamui +20, though I'm sure there's a (slightly) less convoluted solution
edit: and promoted Kamui and Marx don't line up with either of those two lol
edit: seems like Camilla has +15, Leon +18, Marx/promoted Kamui +20, though I'm sure there's a (slightly) less convoluted solution
Sakura
Member
1) Correct
2) There are some on Japanese sites. In general though
talk to the child with father character/make sure child survives
4) Pretty sure the dragon is just for my castle battles
Makoto Yuki
Banned
So is Nohr more like traditional FE where you go from chapter to chapter, with castle building between each battle?
Is Hoshido more like Awakening where you traverse a world map?
Also, what are the chances of a sweet special edition like the one in Japan that has BOTH games on one cart? That sounds incredibly convenient, but so far, it's only looking like NA will just get two separate games.
Is Hoshido more like Awakening where you traverse a world map?
Also, what are the chances of a sweet special edition like the one in Japan that has BOTH games on one cart? That sounds incredibly convenient, but so far, it's only looking like NA will just get two separate games.
Was busy all last week but just powered through the rest of the anya campaign this weekend. Spent way too much time maxing my final team and decking them out with skills from my castle battles because in the end 写し身人形 broke everything. Managed to get it on like 10 of my final team so the last couple of chapters with 16 character restrictions were basically fought with 26. A little burnt out and kind of regret spending so much time on my castle stuff since it resets on a new route/save. Not sure if I want to bother running byakuya real quick or just jump into invisible kingdom.
NeonZ
Member
Roy Amiibo hasn't even been physically shown yet. There isn't any support announced for it at this point. They'll need to update the game though if they want to support it, there's nothing in the game's data.
Ballistician and Witch dlc outfits leaked.
Youtube links.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4YT25jrDLg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib0eoYjeXZg
Wonder how different witch will be from dark mage.
Decided to go ahead with a byakuya run and just let that and the 3rd route be a slow burn so that I'll still be playing by the time dlc comes out. Can't wait to waste a ton of money on dlc again ( ´_ゝ｀
Decided to go ahead with a byakuya run and just let that and the 3rd route be a slow burn so that I'll still be playing by the time dlc comes out. Can't wait to waste a ton of money on dlc again ( ´_ゝ｀
theprodigy
Member
Wonder how different witch will be from dark mage.
Decided to go ahead with a byakuya run and just let that and the 3rd route be a slow burn so that I'll still be playing by the time dlc comes out. Can't wait to waste a ton of money on dlc again ( ´_ゝ｀
yet another avatar switch? you've gone from Camilla to Nyx to Kagerou to Hinoka now
This is probably the last one lolyet another avatar switch? you've gone from Camilla to Nyx to Kagerou to Hinoka now