Will break this up:
Seeing it on Saturday with Arnie and WJD. 70mm IMAX. It's going to be sensational.
I don't expect them to magically change into better players. I do think it makes more sense to bring in a player full of confidence and playing well and add to that morale instead of bringing in a youngster who doesn't deserve a chance based on anything other than potential (and in the case of someone like Loftus-Cheek who you mentioned, has no experience whatsoever at the highest level).
International football is completely different to club football in this way though. There is no 'group', however much Leighton Baines might talk about it. You see them for a week every two months, and players come in and out of that group. If you are putting together this haphazard group of footballers and expecting them to play well together despite little to no time spent on a training pitch practising their cohesion, it only makes sense to bring a) the best players and b) the players performing well.
England youth players will be deemed good enough if they're good enough. Sterling was bought from QPR to play for a big club. Jay Rodriguez, Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were all performing well enough at a 'smaller club' to get called up, same with Clyne. Chambers earned his move to Arsenal. The likes of Charlie Austin have been linked with call ups, Fabian Delph earned one, Will Hughes has been continually linked with bigger clubs.
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with our youth set up, the chances offered to English youth, the separate issue of players just being in the squad and not getting a shot at the starting line up, don't get me wrong. But players have proved that if you're good enough and performing well enough you'll get the call, and that's how it should be. Not "well you may potentially be good enough, come hang around our training camp for a week and then go back to your club and play little to no minutes there either."
If Downing played brilliantly for the next two seasons, it would be foolish not to take him to the Euros. Just as now, it's foolish not to include him when he deserves it.
If Nick Powell shows in training to Nigel Pearson he warrants more game time, then plays well enough to warrant more attention, then I'll vouch for his inclusion. As it stands, he isn't playing well enough and there's questions about his attitude. Downing is playing well for a team performing well. That's all there is to it, really.
I'd rather bring a player performing well than a player that isn't playing. Simple as that.
Anyone going to see Interstellar?
Don't Rises me Nolan, pls be good.
edit: whoops, was quoting from older page so didn't realise people were already talking about it.
Seeing it on Saturday with Arnie and WJD. 70mm IMAX. It's going to be sensational.
As I said, club form has been indicative of international form... when? Sometimes it is clear a player needs tactical assistance, or a formation that suits them or just the right run of games to build form. Sometimes it is obvious from day one that they are not cut out for that level and never will be. The likes of a Downing or Milner could get a 100 more caps and you're telling me you expect them to magically change in to better players? Nah, I disagree.
I don't expect them to magically change into better players. I do think it makes more sense to bring in a player full of confidence and playing well and add to that morale instead of bringing in a youngster who doesn't deserve a chance based on anything other than potential (and in the case of someone like Loftus-Cheek who you mentioned, has no experience whatsoever at the highest level).
What is the point of Downing playing 8 minutes? Is he going to be the answer when we have already looked at him? Clearly not. Powell at least can get exposure to the group and learn something from others, he has technique suited to international football. He has also been part of the youth system and is a natural progression to be in a squad. And I say this every qualification rounds and every time I get shot down. Then that player through injury, form or desperation ends up getting picked right at the end and gets heaps of pressure put on them. The likes of a Walcott, or Barkley, or Sterling... get thrown in usually rather than anything gradual. Suddenly that player is the answer to everything and tons of pressure put on them. If they are about the squad, it is not a big deal coming on as a sub or starting games later in the campaign.
International football is completely different to club football in this way though. There is no 'group', however much Leighton Baines might talk about it. You see them for a week every two months, and players come in and out of that group. If you are putting together this haphazard group of footballers and expecting them to play well together despite little to no time spent on a training pitch practising their cohesion, it only makes sense to bring a) the best players and b) the players performing well.
Tell me this Wilbs, how are English youth players expected to gain form in this league now exactly? They will either play at struggling clubs, in the championship or be loaned out from bigger clubs. Sometimes the odd random form will prop up a struggling club to higher in the table. Very few are getting chances, that is clear as day. England can't rely on the clubs to bring these players through anymore. Needs must. And it is a circular argument as well, as people say there are no top English players and yet English players aren't allowed to play at the top so yeah... no shit. If Barca were in the prem and just loaned out Messi every 6 months to championship clubs, he would adapt to become a championship player. I use him as an example, don't take it too literally.![]()
England youth players will be deemed good enough if they're good enough. Sterling was bought from QPR to play for a big club. Jay Rodriguez, Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert were all performing well enough at a 'smaller club' to get called up, same with Clyne. Chambers earned his move to Arsenal. The likes of Charlie Austin have been linked with call ups, Fabian Delph earned one, Will Hughes has been continually linked with bigger clubs.
I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with our youth set up, the chances offered to English youth, the separate issue of players just being in the squad and not getting a shot at the starting line up, don't get me wrong. But players have proved that if you're good enough and performing well enough you'll get the call, and that's how it should be. Not "well you may potentially be good enough, come hang around our training camp for a week and then go back to your club and play little to no minutes there either."
What form though, what is your long term goal of having him in there exactly? You're expecting to play him at the euros is that it? You're building a team around him, an impact sub... what? Form has nothing to do with it, this group is a farce, you could turn up drunk to every game and still flop over the line the way qualifying works now. I already said, I wouldn't be shocked if he had a good game. It would be hard not to, that isn't the point though. There is no rhyme or reason to it for when we actually get qualified.
If Downing played brilliantly for the next two seasons, it would be foolish not to take him to the Euros. Just as now, it's foolish not to include him when he deserves it.
If Nick Powell shows in training to Nigel Pearson he warrants more game time, then plays well enough to warrant more attention, then I'll vouch for his inclusion. As it stands, he isn't playing well enough and there's questions about his attitude. Downing is playing well for a team performing well. That's all there is to it, really.
I'd rather bring a player performing well than a player that isn't playing. Simple as that.