Who will compete in this glorious (expensive) Aero formula that Red Bull would want to run?
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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky
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Who will compete in this glorious (expensive) Aero formula that Red Bull would want to run?
sems4arsenal
Member
Didn't Maria slam into a truck?
While in an F1 car yes. Dunno if the Halo would've helped in her case, but her accident always seems to be ignored for some reason when discussing F1 safety.
Regarding the Halo thing, I still cannot believe how this thing is not interfering with drivers vision in a way that the actual benefit of the protection is actually eliminated by the fact that an accident due to poor vision is more likely to happen...
Can someone please explain?
I mean to ke it looks super distracting.
Can someone please explain?
I mean to ke it looks super distracting.
sems4arsenal
Member
It wouldn't, which I'm guessing is the reason. Granted JB's passing away caused the debate which is weird.
I don't get it to be honest. The one incident in the last few years in F1 that the Halo could have prevented was the Massa crash. Even then, that small debris part could've still hit him.
F1 cars now sound bad and the racing isn't all that. If the cars will look bad along side that then no thanks.
I think it would've helped a bit. Also, it's not like they just started researching solutions after Bianchi's accident.
Every accident in other open-wheel series could've also occured in F1. Don't ignore them.
Definitely unhappy about the halo introduction. I think they could've made more effort into producing a feasible screen/shield and we wouldn't have to endure the 2-3 years of halo before we get to that point.
That point.. at which we might as well just go fully closed cockpit.
Her accident was so bizarre and overlooked. You could argue the biggest reason she died was that she wasn't given adequate preparation to drive an F1 car and wasn't well equipped to deal with a situation where the car went into anti-stall.
That point.. at which we might as well just go fully closed cockpit.
Her accident was so bizarre and overlooked. You could argue the biggest reason she died was that she wasn't given adequate preparation to drive an F1 car and wasn't well equipped to deal with a situation where the car went into anti-stall.
Jezbollah
Member
The biggest reason she died was a fucking truck with it's loader tray in the immediate vicinity of an unsuitable location to do engine runs.
brotkasten
Member
I couldn't agree more. I don't watch the sport, because the cars look pretty. Otherwise I would've stopped watching it after 2007 or 2008. As long as it's open wheel, the cars are fast and the drivers are excellent, I'll keep watching Ferrari winning a couple of races and losing championships because of their incompetence.
Remember when drivers didn't like the HANS device when it was being developed? Dale Earnhardt's death certainly accelerated its development and ultimate acceptance.
Example: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2397462/Formula-One-Villeneuve-hits-out.html
She wasn't doing engine runs, she had finished her run, she was bringing the car back to the garages at relatively slow speeds, and didn't know how to stop the car in the particular circumstances.
Also so it's clear here, I'm blaming Manor for not providing her with the right preparation and for letting an unprepared driver into the car, not De Villota.
Jezbollah
Member
I've been to Duxford many times. It's not suitable for such activity.
They should have gone to a facility such as Santa Pod with proper safety facilities, track enclosures, pit facilities etc.
The incident should have never happened.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Personally, I think open cockpit LMP cars were better looking than the closed ones.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree here. The location seems completely irrelevant to me given the nature of the accident and what caused it.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
IndyCar is going to try and introduce an aeroscreen for the 2018 car.
The halo always seemed like a stop gap. The screen makes much more sense. Vettel complained it made him dizzy, yet closed cockpit drivers have no issue. Nor do high speed aircraft pilots who pull way more G's than an F1 car.
If/when another small object bypasses the huge gaps in the halo and hits a driver's helmet will they perhaps reconsider its inadequacies?
Befuddling indeed
If/when another small object bypasses the huge gaps in the halo and hits a driver's helmet will they perhaps reconsider its inadequacies?
Befuddling indeed
Fox Mulder
Member
Not really. F1 doesn't race on anything like a fast banked oval with no run off areas.
Go for a full on Newey Gran Turismo fan car formula.
adamantypants
Member
As a relatively new fan of F1 (4 years or so), I don't have a problem with the looks of either the shield or the halo. Doesn't bother me one bit. For that matter, neither did the penis nose or the current shark fins. I feel like everyone gets way too caught up in the look of the cars. It feels very Bernie.
F-Zero?
F-Zero?
Henry Surtees.
And Justin Wilson's accident, while occurring on an oval, was all about a large object ending up in an open cockpit. The oval part is irrelevant; it's about the open cockpit.
I think I'm part of an old-fashioned crowd that believes that taking every safety measure possible will be the death of motor racing.
Like if you're really gonna be serious about safety, let's race in open deserts on tracks that are a mile wide with extra mile of runoff and the spectators a further 2 miles back. Let's make the cars completely covered so that nobody can get hit in the head and cover the wheels so they don't come off so violently. Let's introduce a rule where you're not allowed within 5ft of another car because you might hit one another.
Take all the safety measures you want, but when you're finished, you'll find that the sport has become completely anaemic, and nobody will want to race. Nobody will watch.
There has literally never been a driver that got into racing because they thought it was a safe thing to do. You cannot continue to remove every single possible risk. You will kill it.
Like if you're really gonna be serious about safety, let's race in open deserts on tracks that are a mile wide with extra mile of runoff and the spectators a further 2 miles back. Let's make the cars completely covered so that nobody can get hit in the head and cover the wheels so they don't come off so violently. Let's introduce a rule where you're not allowed within 5ft of another car because you might hit one another.
Take all the safety measures you want, but when you're finished, you'll find that the sport has become completely anaemic, and nobody will want to race. Nobody will watch.
There has literally never been a driver that got into racing because they thought it was a safe thing to do. You cannot continue to remove every single possible risk. You will kill it.
FrankCanada97
Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
There was also this 2014 IndyCar incident at the Indy road course. Luckily it was only a small bit of front wing, but Hinchcliffe still had his bell rung pretty hard.
Fox Mulder
Member
Wheel tethers. F1 cars also don't have big aero bits that fly off like in Indycar.
Why not just put this shit on the lower developmental series cars where the driving is inherently worse. F1 already ruined engines, close racing, and tracks. Might as well go against the teams wishes and force this shit on them too.
Thanks, wasn't aware of this incident. Can't really see how the debris entered the cockpit, but I guess a shield/halo could've maybe deflected it.
Plenty of wheel tether malfunctions in the past years in F1.
The teams voted for the Halo. (*)
(*) Except for the non-voting teams. Why is this still a thing? Even Renault can't vote.
Psychotext
Member
The curve of the screen on closed cockpit cars is no-where near as harsh as it is on the "shield" that Vettel used. I don't believe the screens are anywhere near as thick as the what they tested either.
As for pilots... they're not know for having to look at constantly changing focal points just outside the cockpit.
You're right, my mistake. Well, the official reactions tomorrow will be fun.
That was Wipeout 2048. And actually, now that I think about it, that intro of how racing cars evolve over the years is how I think F1 will evolve over the years too, although the anti-gravity tech will take a while still
. The idea of closed cockpits I think will happen eventually, like it did in LMP1 for WEC, it's just a matter of when, not if at this stage, although I think the Halo design needs a LOT of refinement, because that looks ugly as fuck right now.
The game's Wipeout 2048, but I believe the bit of the 'history' sequence is from 2025. And yeah, I looked at the timeline, we've got a bit of a way to go yet. The pioneer's not going drop out of university for a few years!
This is purely a technology issue.
Regarding pilots, redbull air race (and other acrobatic flying)? The on board shots of the pilots sees their heads moving rather consistently as they are constantly having to monitor their positioning and trajectory all while bracing heavily for high G maneuvers.
I'm just never quite sure what particular safety measure has contributed to the racing getting worse?
Frankfurter
Member
Counter position here: I don't watch Formula 1 to see people die. Accidents happen, but lessons need to be learned. People were saying the same thing as you 30, 40 years ago, when drivers burned to death (etc.). Yet, F1 is still alive, despite all those safety measures. And we still have great drivers that are more than willing to race each other.
Jezbollah
Member
We'll have to. My point is that if it was a suitable location for long engine runs, then they would have the likes of barriers for the car to hit, not a lorry with it's loader tray.
EDIT: With regards to Halo - I suspect we may see this as the first team vs Chase powerplay brewing. It's clear that the teams, drivers and fans don't want it - and mandating it goes against the express wishes of a team vote. If you impose it anyway, then the power of the teams in the decision making process is compromised.
The aerodynamic rules which have led to the current car designs and have made them faster, and following/overtaking far more difficult, were clearly chosen for safety reasons. Likewise the paved run-off areas which allow high speed battles (e.g. Verstappen vs Vettel bumper cars) were introduced for safety reasons and have thus negatively impacted racing.
Let's not even get started on things like mandatory crash testing etc. Without that we'd have non-stop battles all through the field.
Frankfurter
Member
icwotudidthere
Psychotext
Member
The shield is harsher curved than those too. It's not something that can't be fixed, but the cars will have to be designed accordingly.
That's going to take a while.
brotkasten
Member
Another rumor on Vettel having an offer for a 3-year-extension from Ferrari. As previously rumored, he still has to decide whether or not he's going to accept it.
Sebastian Vettel has reportedly been offered a three-year deal worth $138.5m as Ferrari look to resolve the four-time World Champion's future.
Vettel's current deal with the Scuderia expires at the end of the current season, prompting speculation that he may move to title rivals Mercedes.
But, according to Autoweek, Vettel has a new bumper contract on the table and Ferrari awaiting his decision.
The German has not been too forthcoming about his future when asked in the paddock, but is said to want team-mate Kimi Raikkonen, who is also out of contract at the end of the season, to stay alongside him should Vettel decide to stay with Ferrari.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-offer-vettel-138-5m-three-year-deal/
Not surprising that he wants to keep Kimi in the #2 seat.
Sebastian Vettel has reportedly been offered a three-year deal worth $138.5m as Ferrari look to resolve the four-time World Champion's future.
Vettel's current deal with the Scuderia expires at the end of the current season, prompting speculation that he may move to title rivals Mercedes.
But, according to Autoweek, Vettel has a new bumper contract on the table and Ferrari awaiting his decision.
The German has not been too forthcoming about his future when asked in the paddock, but is said to want team-mate Kimi Raikkonen, who is also out of contract at the end of the season, to stay alongside him should Vettel decide to stay with Ferrari.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-offer-vettel-138-5m-three-year-deal/
Not surprising that he wants to keep Kimi in the #2 seat.
If my maths is right that's nearly $1m a week.
2.3 million per race
Patrick S.
Banned
I still don't understand how a driver, who is an employee, can dictate what other people his employer hires.
If you're good at your job, you can pretty much ask for anything. Even as a racing driver.
brotkasten
Member
While it's definitely a lot of money (dat Ferrari money), it also means he's not going to win another championship for the next 3 years in his career. It's kind of a tough decision.
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