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[Makariel]

What a race... Just when I think I'm done with this sport this happens

If Vettel would drive like this a bit more often this season would still be a contest, Max showed once more his dominance in wet conditions and holy hell the toro rosso were on fire! Kvyat with a stellar drive and Albon keeping Gasly behind for the majority of the race... Until Gasly decided to drive off into the sunset. Sainz showing once again his class and Hulkenberg once again deciding not to drive onto the podium. Also well done Stroll, decent drive all day and almost got into the top 3.

Mercedes... I liked their outfits, but that pitstop was just a joke. What was going on?

 

[Fox Mulder]

Both Saubers get 30 second post race penalties, giving Williams their first point of the season with Kubica in 10th.

Probably won't get any more though.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Best race since Baku 2018 or maybe even better due to the number of surprise DNF's. I'm also extremely happy for Robert (and Williams) scoring his first point after the comeback.

 

[AlphaMale]

Amazing race! The last 3 races in a row have been stellar!

Max had an amazing drive. I wish LeClerc and Hulk hadn't crashed, and Danny Ric with the engine failure.

 

[Makariel]

While it wasn't as crazy as Hockenheim, yesterday's race was good and Lewis Hamilton showed once again how it is possible that he has so many drivers titles. Good call from Mercedes on the tyre strategy and I found myself reminded of Michael Schumacher. Unless Lewis retires by the end of the year, I'm convinced that he can and will match Michael in terms of number of world championship titles.

Sainz as good as expected really, by now nobody will be surprised to see him finish ahead of Gasly. Ferrari were off the pace again. Not by a county mile but too far for the Red team being a challenger for the top spot. Bottas was unlucky, two hits on his front wing on the first lap on a track where overtaking is a real challenge in the best of times.

 

[xrnzaaas]

It's a little bit too late this year for RBR to take the championship fight, but if they can keep the momentum for next year (and hire Kvyat ) it should be interesting.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Redbull actually showed up early this year and usually gets stronger as the season goes. Honda has been amazing too.

Gasly is really dragging down the team as they should be in 2nd place. A shame Ricciardo fucked off to Renault to waste his time there.

 

[Silentium]

Good race - Mercedes made on the right call on pitting Hamilton the second time onto softs, although they were likely helped by the data coming off Bottas's long run on hard tires that let them know Verstappen would struggle near the end. Tough position for Red Bull, I think as Horner said post-race they probably out-qualified themselves and were in an impossible position re maintaining track position (critical at at the Hungaroring) cf. pitting for fresh tires (Verstappen's 1:17.1 lap).

 

[Breakage]

Vettel's Ferrari was 61 seconds behind in third. That's quite a big gap.

 

[AlphaMale]

If Gasly was a better #2 driver and/or Ferrari had faster pace, then Mercedes wouldn't have taken the gamble of bringing Lewis in for the "free" pitstop. Bringing Lewis in was an obvious choice, given the huge gap between Lewis and Vettel.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Gasly just got dumped for Albon.

I thought they got hacked when I saw the tweet. They had said Gasly was safe for the season.

 

[Nicktendo_]

Red Bull: We brought in Gasly too soon.

Also Red Bull: Here’s a new Guy with 12 GP starts.

 

[Grieves]

Would have gone with Kvyat myself.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Strange decision imo, feels more like it was made because of the potential for Red Bull to become bigger in Asia. Albon was doing very well, but promoting him so early in his F1 career seems risky. Or maybe Kvyat already has a 2020 contract with a different team but they can't talk about it yet?

 

[Grieves]

Maybe. I just want Kvyat to get a second chance after his harsh treatment first time 'round.

 

[AlphaMale]

I dunno. I think Albon needs a little more time in the oven. Promoting him after just 12 races is a bit hasty! If he doesn't do well, then what?? Bring Kyvat back up Torro Rosso will have 2 reject junior drivers?

 

[Mohonky]

Gasly just got dumped for Albon.

I thought they got hacked when I saw the tweet. They had said Gasly was safe for the season.

Well they didnt fire him as such, he's still an RB driver.

Choosing Albon over Kyvat seems a mistake though. They should really leave Albon at TR to grow some more and find his feet. Throwing these rookie drivers into the A team and then having them demoralised isn't doing anything for them. Kyvat has at least been there and knows the expectations and pressure.

He was no Max Verstappen but at least he wasnt as non-existent as Gasly

 

[Makariel]

I also think it's too early for him. Hope for the best though, but if he's also a second off Max' pace what are they going to do, throw in Kvyat next?

 

[Mohonky]

I also think it's too early for him. Hope for the best though, but if he's also a second off Max' pace what are they going to do, throw in Kvyat next?

Possible. They have data of Kyvat in the RB and against Max and they obviously have a reference from Gasly, throwing Albon in is likely so at the end of the year they have a measure of which of the 3 drivers will be the best fit in the RB main squad and continue to evaluate the performances of the other two and see if they improve back at TR given more time.


They weren't expecting Gasly to match Verstappen I'm sure, but I don't think they expected Gasly to be quite so far off the pace as he has been. Either Max is just thoroughly out driving the car, or the car is every bit capable of taking it to Merc as Max is showing and Gasly is massively under performing. Either way, this will be their way of knowing. If Gasly can't match Kyvat, then it will probably tell them what they need to know; either Gasly is just not there this year or Verstappen is really just that good right now. Of course, if Albon ends up performing similarly to Gasly, while Gasly is out performed by Kyvat, they'll probably put Kyvat in the RB next year.

I think they've written off any 'sure bets' on their 2020 partner for Verstappen and this is them ensuring that next year, they have the 2 best drivers they can in RB and maybe the guys who end up in the TR mature with time.

It's a great opportunity for Albon, but if he cops a hiding from Verstappen and finds himself back at TR, it could be quite demoralising.

In fairness to Kyvat, despite being promoted to RB, then dropped by them, then again dropped by TR, he's shown some amazing resilience and I have to give the guy credit for that. He's fast at times, but still also prone to some errors, but he's not nearly as bad as some make him out to be......there have been drivers with similar qualities*cough* Grosjean *cough* and that guys been in F1 for what, nearly 10 years now. So there's a possibility.

 

[Can't decide]

Nasty crash at Eau Rouge, Spa in Formula 2 today. One of the drivers broke both of his legs, another, Hubert, was killed, RIP.

 

[Breakage]

Nasty crash at Eau Rouge, Spa in Formula 2 today. One of the drivers broke both of his legs, another, Hubert, was killed, RIP.

I don't follow F2, but just looked it up on YouTube after seeing your post. It was a brutal crash. A reminder of how deadly motorsport racing can be.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Horrible. Haven't seen the crash and don't follow f2, but Eau Rouge has been pretty mundane these days taken flat out. The cars are so safe too. Every now and then we get reminded how dangerous it still is in the worst way like this.

 

[xrnzaaas]

The accident looked very bad, but I was still wishing for a miracle. RIP Anthoine.

 

[GHG]

Horrible. Haven't seen the crash and don't follow f2, but Eau Rouge has been pretty mundane these days taken flat out. The cars are so safe too. Every now and then we get reminded how dangerous it still is in the worst way like this.

One car crashed into the tire wall at the top of the hill and the other went into the side of the crashed car at full speed basically tearing it in two.

Very much reminiscent of Alex Zanardi's indycar accident if you've ever seen it.

Tragic stuff. RIP Hubert

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

F2 cars just aren't designed to mitigate that amount of energy.

 

[Can't decide]

No car will ever be able to save a driver from an accident like that. His first impact into the wall was probably about 140mph, then immediately followed by another car slamming into it at 180mph. Our feeble bodies will never be able to cope with instant shifts in G forces like those.

 

[GHG]

F2 cars just aren't designed to mitigate that amount of energy.

Actually they are. It's just that they aren't designed to be able to withstand 2 high impact accidents like that in quick succession.

The first crash into the wall on it's own is ordinarily fine. On its own, even the second phase of the incident usually wouldn't be fatal in modern open wheel racing cars. However when you combine the two and put the larger impact after the first one (which would have compromised the safety structures in place) then you end up with big problems.

The car basically split apart and the sidepod was gone after the impact. Really sad to see.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I hope the sequence of corners stays exactly like it is, but maybe adding gravel traps where the first hit took place would help in improving the safety? It's hard to predict, but imo if Hubert was caught in a gravel trap his car couldn't return to the track.

 

[Can't decide]

Safety car after turn 1. Looks like the F1 drivers have been playing too much Wreckfest this week.

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

Actually they are. It's just that they aren't designed to be able to withstand 2 high impact accidents like that in quick succession.

A Formula 1 car or Formula Indy would have undoubtedly had their safety cells still intact due to more advanced anti-intrusion materials as well as larger crush structures even after an initial impact. I wouldn't speculate as to driver conditions in an accident like that, but simply put a F2 car is a very light car with a safety cell and not nearly enough crushable structures around it to diffuse energy.

 

[GHG]

A Formula 1 car or Formula Indy would have undoubtedly had their safety cells still intact due to more advanced anti-intrusion materials as well as larger crush structures even after an initial impact. I wouldn't speculate as to driver conditions in an accident like that, but simply put a F2 car is a very light car with a safety cell and not nearly enough crushable structures around it to diffuse energy.

The safety regulations and structures are identical between F1 and F2.

SAFETY
Racing at speeds very close to F1, safety is of course the highest priority. The F2 2018 car has passed every one of the stringent F1 FIA crash tests, and includes anti-intrusion panels, while wearing the HANS device is also compulsory. The championship puts its commitment to safety ahead of all other considerations.

The safety and values - Formula 2

www.fiaformula2.com

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

The safety regulations and structures are identical between F1 and F2.

Indycars are built to exceed the FIA's safety regulations. They're designed to dissapate large amounts of energy and survive multiple impacts, because such impacts are far more common in the series.
I'm very doubtful that a F2 car's threshold for energy diffusion as well as maintaining its structural integrity reaches that of F1 cars as well. F2 is a single make series where money is a very real consideration, I doubt those chassis are built much above the regulations he FIA requires, especially given the infrequency of a serious incident. Dallara doesn't plan chassis design for the exception.

Always look at regulations as the bare minimum expectation.

 

[Makariel]

RIP Hubert

Indycars are built to exceed the FIA's safety regulations. They're designed to dissapate large amounts of energy and survive multiple impacts, because such impacts are far more common in the series.
I'm very doubtful that a F2 car's threshold for energy diffusion as well as maintaining its structural integrity reaches that of F1 cars as well. F2 is a single make series where money is a very real consideration, I doubt those chassis are built much above the regulations he FIA requires, especially given the infrequency of a serious incident. Dallara doesn't plan chassis design for the exception.

Dallara builds chassis for both indy and FIA formula 2, so I'm not sure why you argue that the same company would be building above spec in one and not the other series? Also, I doubt that formula 1 is built "much above" the specs, since that would add weight, something f1 cars are allergic to. So if there is a problem with the spec it's not just a F2 problem.

 

[GHG]

Indycars are built to exceed the FIA's safety regulations. They're designed to dissapate large amounts of energy and survive multiple impacts, because such impacts are far more common in the series.
I'm very doubtful that a F2 car's threshold for energy diffusion as well as maintaining its structural integrity reaches that of F1 cars as well. F2 is a single make series where money is a very real consideration, I doubt those chassis are built much above the regulations he FIA requires, especially given the infrequency of a serious incident. Dallara doesn't plan chassis design for the exception.

Always look at regulations as the bare minimum expectation.

The survival cells are made of identical materials (Sandwich Carbon/aluminium honeycomb structure/Zylon anti-intrusion panels) across F1 and F2. Dallara, who supply the F2 monocoques, also supply them to F1 and indycar teams. The monocoque is surrounded by panels that are designed to deform in the event of a crash to absorb the energy and protect the driver. These would have done their job upon the first phase of the crash but the second larger impact could not have been accounted for and is not something they would test for. It's just a very unfortunate series of events that led to a horrible outcome.

If you can point me towards some information or data which shows F1 cars are built with safety reinforcements "above spec" then I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[Siri]

It was fitting that Leclerc won on Sunday, considering what happened on Saturday. RIP Antoine Hubert.

 

[V4skunk]

Well they didnt fire him as such, he's still an RB driver.

Choosing Albon over Kyvat seems a mistake though. They should really leave Albon at TR to grow some more and find his feet. Throwing these rookie drivers into the A team and then having them demoralised isn't doing anything for them. Kyvat has at least been there and knows the expectations and pressure.

He was no Max Verstappen but at least he wasnt as non-existent as Gasly

Kvyat is much faster than Albon. Kvyat has also kind of proven him self again at TR.

 

[V4skunk]

The survival cells are made of identical materials (Sandwich Carbon/aluminium honeycomb structure/Zylon anti-intrusion panels) across F1 and F2. Dallara, who supply the F2 monocoques, also supply them to F1 and indycar teams. The monocoque is surrounded by panels that are designed to deform in the event of a crash to absorb the energy and protect the driver. These would have done their job upon the first phase of the crash but the second larger impact could not have been accounted for and is not something they would test for. It's just a very unfortunate series of events that led to a horrible outcome.

If you can point me towards some information or data which shows F1 cars are built with safety reinforcements "above spec" then I'd be interested in seeing it.

You are wrong. Dallara only makes chassis for Haas. An F1 car is much stronger built than a gp2 / f2 car.
F1 cars are among the strongest built in the world...You crash a road car at 80 mph, chances are you could see death. Not so in a F1.

 

[hariseldon]

You are wrong. Dallara only makes chassis for Haas. An F1 car is much stronger built than a gp2 / f2 car.
F1 cars are among the strongest built in the world...You crash a road car at 80 mph, chances are you could see death. Not so in a F1.

Most of the time if you crash an F2 car or an IndyCar at ridiculous speeds you'll survive too. IndyCar has more deaths because they race open-wheel cars on oval tracks at high speed with only a concrete wall once you leave the track. IndyCars are built super-safe for that, including innovations to prevent the car flipping once it gets into the air.

 

[GHG]

You are wrong. Dallara only makes chassis for Haas. An F1 car is much stronger built than a gp2 / f2 car.
F1 cars are among the strongest built in the world...You crash a road car at 80 mph, chances are you could see death. Not so in a F1.

What are you basing your assumptions off?

And to clarify, when I said dallara supply monocoques to F1 teams Haas were who I was referring to.

I'm happy to be proven wrong here, but until I am I'd rather go with the information the FIA provides which clearly states both the F1 and F2 cars have the same safety standards.

 

[Makariel]

Kvyat is much faster than Albon. Kvyat has also kind of proven him self again at TR.

Much faster? Based on what?

2019 F1 Season: Albon vs Kvyat – Mid season overview

it is time to move on to the circumstances that led Albon to be promoted to Red Bull. Did he do enough to guarantee the seat, especially after comparing him to Daniil Kvyat? The stats will tell us the story, so let’s take a look at the numbers.

f1bythenumbers.com

"On average, the difference is as small as it gets. Alex Albon has the upper hand by the smallest of margins, a difference of only 12 thousands of a second. "

Kvyat has more points but that is skewed by the freak weekend that was Hockenheim, where Albon was running ahead of Kvyat until the latter was lucky with his last pit stop. Considering Albon is a rookie and Kvyat is in his 5th full season, you'd expect Kvyat to walk all over him but that hasn't happened. In reality the two drivers were very close over the course of the fist half of the season and it makes sense that RBR puts the rookie in the seat for a few races, since they have all the data they need on Kvyat (he was in Red Bull until he torpedoed Vettel off the track in Russia after all). Plus, Albon said himself he has still much to learn, while Kvyat arguably is as good as he can get right now, and with his wealth of experience he still didn't manage to keep the rookie behind by a significant margin.

 

[V4skunk]

The survival cells are made of identical materials (Sandwich Carbon/aluminium honeycomb structure/Zylon anti-intrusion panels) across F1 and F2. Dallara, who supply the F2 monocoques, also supply them to F1 and indycar teams. The monocoque is surrounded by panels that are designed to deform in the event of a crash to absorb the energy and protect the driver. These would have done their job upon the first phase of the crash but the second larger impact could not have been accounted for and is not something they would test for. It's just a very unfortunate series of events that led to a horrible outcome.

If you can point me towards some information or data which shows F1 cars are built with safety reinforcements "above spec" then I'd be interested in seeing it.

Rich F1 teams like Redbull, Mercedes, Ferrari etc are pushing carbon fibre technologies. Moving into titanium, graphene, carbon fibre weaves.

What are you basing your assumptions off?

And to clarify, when I said dallara supply monocoques to F1 teams Haas were who I was referring to.

I'm happy to be proven wrong here, but until I am I'd rather go with the information the FIA provides which clearly states both the F1 and F2 cars have the same safety standards.

Safety standards are like a minimum that must be reached in things like a crash test.
F1 teams push technology, better stronger and lighter materials etc...

 

[Can't decide]

Saw this posted elsewhere, love it.

 

[Makariel]

Ferrari celebrating in Anor Londo



Looking forward to the race, bit of wet weather should make things interesting.

 

[Fox Mulder]

That qualifying was a complete shitshow.

 

[Makariel]

This was the most ridiculous qualifying I've ever seen.

 

[Can't decide]

Timing was tight for all of them when they were leaving the pit, they only had 1m45 to get around a lap that takes 1m20 at full pelt, so pitwall and drivers were all aware.

However, you could already tell that they weren't going to make it around in time when they started curb crawling for prostitutes round the first chicane. Surely the pit wall would have been screaming in the driver's ears to abort tactics and get a fucking move on during Curva Grande?

 

[xrnzaaas]

This is a good summary of Q3...

 

[Nicktendo_]

Vettel is done.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I hope that Charles finishes ahead of Seb in the championship, it'll send a clear signal to Ferrari who to focus on (almost ) becoming their next champion.

 

[Can't decide]

Great race and brilliant result for Renault.

I'm surprised Vettel didn't just get out of the car during the penalty stop and thumb for a ride home. When he pulled that idiotic move into Stroll, I launched up from my couch screaming... not at Vettel and his buffoonery, not at the dangerousness, but at the freaking directors.

"Oh hey, a critical situation that will instantly unfold in any number of ways, the whole race is going to be affected, let's not focus on that and stare at some kid in the fucking crowd instead."