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[gdt]

Parts of Fringe S1 were dreadful.

 

[Fatalah]

Just finished tonight's episode, holy CRAP!

 

[Solo]

I don't know, I've found plenty of Fringe episodes to be pretty boring.

I can honestly say I haven't found a single one boring. There have been some bad ones (Brown Betty comes instantly to mind), a lot of middling ones in S1 and early S2, but even when those happened, bored is not the word I would have used.

Same with LOST, actually. It was never boring, no matter how good or bad it was. When I think of boring, I think of something like Chuck of the past two seasons. Bad Fringe is still usually highly entertaining. John Noble and/or crazy ass pseudo science go a long way.

 

[WillyFive]

That is 100% true, but at this point in LOST, there was a subpar S2 and first half of S3. I think its a fair comment to say that after 3 seasons of each show, LOST had higher highs (and much lower lows) while Fringe has been much more consistent.

I wouldn't call Fringe consistent at all. We had to go through a very boring Season 1 to get to the good stuff, and even though I didn't consider Season 2 to be low quality, it seemed a lot of people here did, and I didn't bother to watch a lot of episodes of this show because they weren't interesting enough.

Every episode of Lost was worth watching (well, except one or two), and had great moments. Fringe had a lot of great moments (the various people lining up on top of a tower to jump, the Observer eating that spicy food, Walter getting the white flower drawing, Peter walking down the subway with his ears rendered completely deaf), but even Lost Season 2 as a whole was worth it just to see stuff happen.

Irrelevant, but I would have liked Giacchino to stick around and score this show, but he's now out there winning Oscars and such.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

The funny thing about Fringe is even most bad episodes just come off as pretty good police procedurals...

 

[PhoncipleBone]

The funny thing about Fringe is even most bad episodes just come off as pretty good police procedurals...

True.

But this is getting derailed. Lost was fantastic for most of its run, but the ending was very divisive to the fans, as evident by this thread. It is probably best to leave it be for now, I think a half a page is a decent length to derail.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Irrelevant, but I would have liked Giacchino to stick around and score this show, but he's now out there winning Oscars and such.

You do know he didn't score a ton of Season 1 don't you?

 

[Solo]

The funny thing about Fringe is even most bad episodes just come off as pretty good police procedurals...

Exactly. Actually what many here consider the "bad" or "boring" S1 episodes were excellent MOTWs.

Agree with PB though. This is the LSD thread. Talk only about that (or Fringe if you must).

 

[WillyFive]

But is there any single episode of Fringe that was as bad as the Nikki/Paulo episode?

Expose? Wasn't that a really great one? It was a one-off, but it was a great episode.

Try Stranger in a Strange Land. Now that one was a really bad one. An episode about tattoos. An incredible waste of time.

You do know he didn't score a ton of Season 1 don't you?

You are agreeing with me?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Exactly. Actually what many here consider the "bad" or "boring" S1 episodes were excellent MOTWs.

They're actually like old Ivan Tor movies. Just Google Science Fiction Theater (its from the 1950s but eps appear on Youtube) or The Magnetic Monster (a film from the time).

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Expose? Wasn't that a really great one? It was a one-off, but it was a great episode.

Try Stranger in a Strange Land. Now that one was a really bad one. An episode about tattoos. An incredible waste of time.

Stranger in a Strange Land was especially horrible. Expose was not that great either. The only good part was them killing Nikki and Paulo.

Anyways, last derail by me.

Back on topic: Anna looked damn fine with that new hairstyle tonight. Quite nice.

And Solo should be happy, as it looks like next season he will get both Olivia AND Fauxlivia at the same time.

 

[Yaweee]

But is there any single episode of Fringe that was as bad as the Nikki/Paulo episode?

They're bad characters, but I thought the episode was enjoyable.

As for bad Fringe episodes, I had actually given up on the show after the first few and didn't pick it up again until people told me it had gotten good later in the season. The pilot is particularly boring.

 

[Solo]

And Solo should be happy, as it looks like next season he will get both Olivia AND Fauxlivia at the same time.

You know what I'd do with a quantum entanglement device? Two Olivias at the same time.

 

[Catalix]

Fringe had been dreadfully boring for about half it's run, with its small cast of cardboard characters. That's a glaring flaw I can't let slide just because things are amazing now.

So as a whole, it ain't LOST-tier for me yet, but I still respect how far Fringe has risen from it's former mediocrity.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Fringe had been dreadfully boring for about half it's run, with its small cast of cardboard characters. That's a glaring flaw I can't let slide just because things are amazing now.

So as a whole, it ain't LOST-tier for me yet, but I still respect how far Fringe has risen from it's former mediocrity.

The show was always fairly decent, but once it fully embraced its sci fi roots and went right for mindfucking, it has been amazing. Just remember how hit or miss X-Files was before hitting a big stride.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Everyone remembers how much of a police procedural this used to be right? The show has drastically changed it's format. That's why I'm so interested in next season. I wonder if they'll dump the case of the week format.

 

[Solo]

I really can't wait to see how Peter gets brought back in for S4. Joshua Jackson isn't getting written out obviously, and Walter and Olivia cannot carry the show together, so obviously Peter needs to exist again.

I don't know the how or the why (obviously), but I'm predicting S4 to start like S3: alternating episodes between Universe A/B/bridge and wherever the fuck Peter is, with Peter rejoining the world around episode 8 or 9.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I really can't wait to see how Peter gets brought back in for S4. Joshua Jackson isn't getting written out obviously, and Walter and Olivia cannot carry the show together, so obviously Peter needs to exist again.

I don't know the how or the why (obviously), but I'm predicting S4 to start like S3: alternating episodes between Universe A/B/bridge and wherever the fuck Peter is, with Peter rejoining the world around episode 8 or 9.

Most likely. They cannot get rid of Peter, as essentially EVERYTHING that has happened on the show is because of Peter.

 

[WillyFive]

Everyone remembers how much of a police procedural this used to be right? The show has drastically changed it's format. That's why I'm so interested in next season. I wonder if they'll dump the case of the week format.

I don't think they will. They can certainly still keep the feel of it, and they may be able to keep the formula if they set themselves up well enough.

 

[Squalltdx]

Just finished watching. Came back late so "Start Over" from TWC put to good use.

1 - Wow @ Astrid
2 - Mind Blown from whole episode (Waltertnate/Olivia scene + ending made me )
3 - Great scenes/acting all around (John Noble deserves something for what he's done)
4 - Man I love Fringe and thx god it was renewed
5 - It's going to be a long summer waiting for it to return
6 - Wow @ Astrid

That is all.

 

[Solo]

My guess is that the season opens with Peter under the watch of the Observers. Its not that he doesn't exist, its that for some reason, according to their grand plan, they dont want him to exist. So they have essentially abducted him and somehow made everyone forget about him. OBSERVER PRISON BREAK.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You are agreeing with me?

I thought your were implying he scored Season 1 and then left from Season 2 on.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I don't think they will. They can certainly still keep the feel of it, and they may be able to keep the formula if they set themselves up well enough.

They managed to keep the MOTW format even when jumping between universes. Now we will get MOTW but with crossover teams, like Our Olivia with Alt Charlie working together.

 

[WillyFive]

When Walter mentioned dinosaurs, I was thinking that there could be a crossover between Fringe and Terra Nova (an upcoming show also from Fox).

I thought your were implying he scored Season 1 and then left from Season 2 on.

Oh ok. Giacchino only scored the pilot as far as I know (and it wasn't that interesting a score), which is why I worded it in a way that implied he was ever around. Never mentioned the specific time frame.

They managed to keep the MOTW format even when jumping between universes. Now we will get MOTW but with crossover teams, like Our Olivia with Alt Charlie working together.

Maybe, but we never know. It could be something unexpected!

 

[zychi]

Did John Noble have a stroke or something off the show? Or was future Walter and future Walternate just talking out of the side of their mouth to show something changed in them? It bothered me the entire episode that the future Walters seemed to have that "droopy face" that occurs when someone has a stroke and loses control over half of their face. He also one arm hugs Olivia when he congratulates her for the wedding.

Basically I hope Noble is okay, and it was just his superb acting that I caught onto.

 

[Fatalah]

I remember another primetime FOX sci-fi show who's main character disappeared for a while. Next season, I fully expect a Terminator to replace Peter.

All kidding aside, I had no idea tonight was the season finale, so I wasn't prepared for this episode at all. This was the first season I watched week to week, I jumped in last summer and steamrolled through all the seasons. Fringe has quickly become one of my all-time favorite TV shows, I'm so glad I came to the party.

 

[Squalltdx]

Probably just the characters showing age since the amount of time/events/stress that has passed from the 2 + he was still chained during that hug i think.

 

[krameriffic]

I wouldn't call Fringe consistent at all. We had to go through a very boring Season 1 to get to the good stuff, and even though I didn't consider Season 2 to be low quality, it seemed a lot of people here did, and I didn't bother to watch a lot of episodes of this show because they weren't interesting enough.

Every episode of Lost was worth watching (well, except one or two), and had great moments. Fringe had a lot of great moments (the various people lining up on top of a tower to jump, the Observer eating that spicy food, Walter getting the white flower drawing, Peter walking down the subway with his ears rendered completely deaf), but even Lost Season 2 as a whole was worth it just to see stuff happen.

Irrelevant, but I would have liked Giacchino to stick around and score this show, but he's now out there winning Oscars and such.

The thing about Lost is that it did a better job of weaving together the important narrative and the stupid bullshit characterization and plodding subplots that plagued the first season of Fringe. I'd say that they have roughly the same amount of good content in them, but with Fringe in season 1, it was like this: boring episode, boring episode, boring episode, HOLY SHIT GOOD EPISODE, boring episode, boring episode...

Lost would have taken the elements of the HOLY SHIT episode and spread it around to keep the rest of the episodes from being such garbage. Thankfully Fringe has hit sort of a critical mass where virtually every episode is either really good or at least not bad, but it took them a while to hit that stride. Lost's later seasons are its best because they only have 16 episodes. They basically cut out 6-8 episodes of fat and condensed it down to mostly the good stuff.

I actually think Fringe would have been a better show if it only had 16-18 episode seasons instead of the usual 22-24. It would have cut out so many of the episodes there were more formulaic and less serialized, the episodes that could have been aired at any time in any season with only minor adjustments and fit just fine.

On the topic of the season finale: I did not see that coming. In retrospect, I didn't really know what to expect, but not that.

 

[TripOpt55]

They managed to keep the MOTW format even when jumping between universes. Now we will get MOTW but with crossover teams, like Our Olivia with Alt Charlie working together.

The possibilities for mixing together all the characters should be really cool. More Charlie would always be good.

 

[Catalix]

The show was always fairly decent, but once it fully embraced its sci fi roots and went right for mindfucking, it has been amazing.

Agreed on the mythology improvements, but it's not just that.

I seriously had a hard time giving two shits about anyone not named Walter Bishop. Once the writers found a way get me invested in the rest of the main cast (around mid-S2) THAT'S when the show really had me by the balls.

A season and a half is a looong-ass time. The sci-fi aspects have always been extremely competent and fascinating, but my level of personal interest regarding the characters wasn't quite there yet. I still kind of hold that grudge against the show's earlier sections.

The thing about Lost is that it did a better job of weaving together the important narrative and the stupid bullshit characterization and plodding subplots that plagued the first season of Fringe. I'd say that they have roughly the same amount of good content in them, but with Fringe in season 1, it was like this: boring episode, boring episode, boring episode, HOLY SHIT GOOD EPISODE, boring episode, boring episode...

Lost would have taken the elements of the HOLY SHIT episode and spread it around to keep the rest of the episodes from being such garbage. Thankfully Fringe has hit sort of a critical mass where virtually every episode is either really good or at least not bad, but it took them a while to hit that stride. Lost's later seasons are its best because they only have 16 episodes. They basically cut out 6-8 episodes of fat and condensed it down to mostly the good stuff.

I actually think Fringe would have been a better show if it only had 16-18 episode seasons instead of the usual 22-24. It would have cut out so many of the episodes there were more formulaic and less serialized, the episodes that could have been aired at any time in any season with only minor adjustments and fit just fine.

On the topic of the season finale: I did not see that coming. In retrospect, I didn't really know what to expect, but not that.

Great assessment, I'll agree to that (except for the part about the later seasons of Lost being better than earlier ones =P)

 

[heliosRAzi]

The possibilities for mixing together all the characters should be really cool. More Charlie would always be good.

Think of the possibilities! Both Fringe teams working together solving shit across both universes. And what if Peter's bridging wasn't perfect? What if some of the soft spots have become pathways between the universe as well?

 

[Incendiary]

Wow. Just wow. This episode was amazing. Although I had correctly guessed most of what was going on, my thought process went like this:

"Okay, this is probably just a time jump for one episode, so they'll probably shockingly kill off one of the main character - yep there goes Olivia. Oh hey cool, Walter and Peter are the First People. That ties that strand up nicely! Okay so now Peter's consciousness is going back to the present, he's probably going to merge the universes instead of outright destroying one - oh hey cool. I was right about that. I wonder what the cliffhanger twist will- hey where'd Peter go? Why aren't they noticing he's gone? What the fuck is going...what did the Observer just say? OH FUCK. WHAT THE FUCK HOLY SHIT FRINGE IS WHAT THE FUCK."

My guess is that the season opens with Peter under the watch of the Observers. Its not that he doesn't exist, its that for some reason, according to their grand plan, they dont want him to exist. So they have essentially abducted him and somehow made everyone forget about him. OBSERVER PRISON BREAK.

I think it's gonna be more like Olivia in the Alternate world at the beginning of this season. Peter's going to pop in and out of people's memories until eventually someone's going to latch on to him not being there, then there will be a few episodes of them attempting to get him back.

 

[The Big Rig]

Well fuck me in the brain hole.

 

[Catalix]

Think of the possibilities! Both Fringe teams working together solving shit across both universes. And what if Peter's bridging wasn't perfect? What if some of the soft spots have become pathways between the universe as well?

These are the kind of scenarios i'm looking forward to the most.

Hopefully some of the more auxilary actors will be available next season.

 

[The Big Rig]

Wild speculation: Maybe Olivia's visions of Peter when she was on the other side weren't made up. Peter just pops in time like an Observer.

 

[gdt]

I think next season will be about getting out from under The Observers (in addition to the two universes coming together). Peter will be doing lots of boss shit.

 

[Let me in]

I think next season will be about getting out from under The Observers (in addition to the two universes coming together). Peter will be doing lots of boss shit.

I like this idea and I think you're right. Remember early talk about limiters being placed on humanity and cortexiphan being used to unlock those limiters? There's still a lot yet to be explained.

 

[Dez]

For me, these last three-four episodes have been a total letdown after an overall great season. I just think the time jump to the future thing was a complete miss - you knew that this future would be erased, so really it just felt like a waste of time.. Olivia funeral, etc - did anyone feel any emotion at that point?

 

[Face it Tiger..]

this episode was a mindfuck from not watching last weeks.. I didn't understand most the episode till the last ten minutes.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAA

Fringe is officially comics now. A Fraction/Morrison riff on Claremont time travel shit. So fucking awesome.

 

[Let me in]

You knew that this future would be erased, so really it just felt like a waste of time.. Olivia funeral, etc - did anyone feel any emotion at that point?

Definitely agree with this. There was no setup for it and there was also no consequence hence no impact.

Not sure I agree that the last episodes were disappointing, but I do feel like they're sort of careening down a story arc at high speed towards the end here. Guess it makes sense considering they're trying to close out the season, but I think the beginning of S3 was definitely more compelling and more in line with Fringe's true nature in terms of slowly revealing mysteries and gently nudging the 'A' story forward while doing investigatory/procedural 'B' stories.

 

[Dany]

so...are we going to alter from future to current now?

 

[Raxus]

For me, these last three-four episodes have been a total letdown after an overall great season. I just think the time jump to the future thing was a complete miss - you knew that this future would be erased, so really it just felt like a waste of time.. Olivia funeral, etc - did anyone feel any emotion at that point?

Yeah. It was a sense of what was to come if either universe is destroyed. It was a pretty dark episode and the Peterase come outta nowhere really blindsided a lot of people. We got a sense of how much Peter and Olivia meant to each other though the series and having Fulivia die kinda brings things full circle.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

so...are we going to alter from future to current now?

I thought that before tonight but who the eff knows, know!!

I swear, when Petey brought the lab to our world, first time I've been legitimately surprised by a show in ages.

 

[Raxus]

For newcomers to the season I figured I'd put a list of my personal favorite episodes.

Olivia, The Plateau (MOTW), Marionette (MOTW), The Firefly, Immortality (MOTW), Subject 13

Olivia especially. I would love to see Torv get a nomination for that episode alone. I am not counting the season finale 3 parter and The Abducted/Entrada since most of these are plot heavy and not for newcomers.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Fulivia

Official New Name Confirmed.

 

[Let me in]

Now that they've done the future I realized how much I liked when they showed us the past in episodes like Peter and Subject 13. Still think there's a lot of material to pull from there, too.

 

[big ander]

Wow. My brain just got fucked over. Holy shit. What an episode.
I thought future Olivia was hotter somehow. She's clearly older, but not old. Same with Peter, Broyles and Astrid; excellent makeup job. Casting on the older Ella was perfect. She looks exactly like our current one. I also loved that she's a Fringe Agent at such a young age. No exact date's been given but she's supposed to have been born around 2003, so she's only 23 and she's being made to work high-profile Fringe cases. Another small and subtle piece that really showed how close to the end of the world they were.
Grey titles had INSANE science events in them. Next year will probably be the red/blue combo on "normal" episodes. I can't see them using purple, though I guess it's possible.
Signs that telekinesis will continue to show up! I'll love it if it's used in small ways like the box in tonights episode.
Moreau has to show up again, right? I understand the End of Days group starts because of the collapse of the universes, and now that shouldn't happen. But his character is still out there, so I think there's a good chance we haven't seen the last of him.

Countless amazing moments in the episode. Peter and Walter coming back together was heartbreaking. Ella remembering Gene was cute. But the best: I couldn't help but see the beauty in Olivia's death. Walter had finally been able to accept her as a daughter, and who should kill her? None but Walternate, the man from whom he stole a son.
As for not being able to invest in the story: what the fuck guys? It's not a diversion. Peter did experience that stuff. When he jumped forward, he wasn't observing the future. He was living it. He lost his wife, who he wanted a child with. He met his father after years in jail. He had a battle with his biological father. And not knowing whether or not it'd fully reset, that was hard-hitting stuff. The funeral choked me up a lot. Even when it did reset, it was still an experience for that time. Claiming that it had no effect is like saying you can't get any enjoyment out a movie or tv episode because it ends and didn't happen. The sense of realism was made and you experienced it, so everything isn't nullified upon ending.

This time travel stuff. In the original timeline, time would continually progress until the universe was so close to collapsing that Walter and team sent back the machine. That's how I understand it. But all that's needed to happen is for the timeline to split due to Peter's premonition, and now he could still send the machine back to keep the loop together. But now Peter's gone. So the loop won't close until Peter returns. That was what I got. Fringe needs to guarantee that "whatever happened happened" by closing the loops, but it can also allow splitting of timelines.

I do wonder what the Observers are doing. September was banking on Peter disappearing, but why? Does that make September's plan easier? And why didn't December see it coming?

I would say my predictions for next year:
5 or 6 episode arc where Peter is in-between. During this time period there's a strained sort of ceasefire between universes where they don't outright sabotage, but they do solve cases together if needed. For example, maybe there will be a problem in Red that requires a device from Blue, and they need the help of Olivia to use her powers, something along those lines.
After that I'm betting on more time travel, first to create the First People, then to do something more. Maybe to combat the Observers? They seem dead-set on the plan continuing, but who knows where that leads.

Lost Versus Fringe: I'd rather not give my opinion right now, honestly. I adore both shows, but in different ways and I think I'd only do a disservice if I tried to hold one over the other. I might figure it out after a rewatch of both, but god knows when I'll have the time for that.

Magnificently spectacularly grand episode. I fucking love this show.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Lost will always have the edge production-wise, so it's not really a fair (or even that sensible) a comparison.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Ok so I've never watched Lost, but I always found it weird that a sci-fi show got such a big budget and mass audience promotion. I know people who watched that show who never watched sci-fi otherwise. What was the hook that got the mass audience? Fringe tried the police procedural route, but it seemed to only work to a certain extent. What did it for Lost? Hot girls in ripped up clothes? Promotion as a drama? I have no clue. I watched part of the first episode once, but I wasn't amazed or anything.