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Game Informer Interview: The Order: 1886 In Retrospect And Ready At Dawn's Future
- Thread starter lightskintwin
- Start date
It's one of those games that showed more promise than it delivered on. The lore was so good and the plot was just getting good when it finished. Totally deserves a sequel.
privitsan02
Member
A sequel won't happen. I doubt Sony want to go back to it after how the first one flopped and how the IP is already tainted. I mean we didn't get a sequel to Heavenly Sword and they it was far more successful critically. Gravity Rush is the only case of Sony wanting to give the IP a second chance and that's primarily because it was in-house.
Now I loved the presentation, atmosphere, the themes, the general idea of the story and the amazing world building of the game. The voice acting and graphics were sublime as well. My main problem with the game stemmed from how boring it was due to the lack of interactivity in it. It had a very "musuem-esque" feel to it where you look at the environment but can't touch it. The horrible extended walking sequences, uninteresting gun fights, awful ending and general lack of excitement really ruined the experience for me. I can forgive it for being a functional run-of-the-mill third person shooter, but it wasn't even that. It had a flimsy cover system and the enemy AI was straight garbage. The few encounters it did have didn't take advantage of the interesting steampunk weaponry they had either.
I wish it got a sequel because it definitely could use the the criticisms from here to improve. Make it more of a shooter like Gears of War, have more hard hitting moments, don't drag the game on with walking sequences and have a more interesting script. It really hurts because I absolutely love the Victorian Era and this game NAILED it with the atmosphere but if Sony aren't willing to fund it because they have little faith in the IP, it's their decision and I can't fault them due to how poor the first game was.
Best wishes.
Now I loved the presentation, atmosphere, the themes, the general idea of the story and the amazing world building of the game. The voice acting and graphics were sublime as well. My main problem with the game stemmed from how boring it was due to the lack of interactivity in it. It had a very "musuem-esque" feel to it where you look at the environment but can't touch it. The horrible extended walking sequences, uninteresting gun fights, awful ending and general lack of excitement really ruined the experience for me. I can forgive it for being a functional run-of-the-mill third person shooter, but it wasn't even that. It had a flimsy cover system and the enemy AI was straight garbage. The few encounters it did have didn't take advantage of the interesting steampunk weaponry they had either.
I wish it got a sequel because it definitely could use the the criticisms from here to improve. Make it more of a shooter like Gears of War, have more hard hitting moments, don't drag the game on with walking sequences and have a more interesting script. It really hurts because I absolutely love the Victorian Era and this game NAILED it with the atmosphere but if Sony aren't willing to fund it because they have little faith in the IP, it's their decision and I can't fault them due to how poor the first game was.
Best wishes.
CaptainofIndustry
Member
I agree with this so much. I really liked The Order. I hope there is a sequel.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I think if the game is reworked, it could be a terrific franchise. It should be given the Killzone treatment and at least have one more go before it's completely forgotten. It should become Sony's Gears of War but with an open world setting and more fantastic creatures. The groundwork is there with the engine and the lore, they just need to reorganize and rework certain things and the game would be golden.
Like some other people here, I'm thoroughly confused at how people can consider the story good and why the game deserves a sequel. If anything it needs a reboot.
The conceit and production values were all there, but the game was lacking and what was there was the most pedantic and uninspired gameplay of its type. The other half was just incredibly high quality cutscenes completely bereft of any storytelling and character building qualities.
Given their output here, I certainly wouldn't trust them straight away with a sequel. They built amazing technology that they completely failed to use adequately.
The conceit and production values were all there, but the game was lacking and what was there was the most pedantic and uninspired gameplay of its type. The other half was just incredibly high quality cutscenes completely bereft of any storytelling and character building qualities.
Given their output here, I certainly wouldn't trust them straight away with a sequel. They built amazing technology that they completely failed to use adequately.
DangerMouse
Member
Same here.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The Order's setting and world and concept, I really like them all. It's such a great shame that even when they had all that, all they produced was such a BORING game :/
Q: "Is there a future for the Order franchise?"
A: *smiling* "Uhhh. The best way to answer that ...wow....without giving any(thing away), how can I say this? Is there a future? Yes. That IP has a future. It's definitely built into the IP. That future was built from the very get go, from the first day we started working on it. There's a larger storyline. There's a macro story that keeps going. There's an IP that's actually even bigger than even the storylines we created. So, there are legs to this IP, definitely."
Q: "So, Sony sees it as a helluva investment. We're gonna keep pushing this baby?"
A: *smiling* "Well, you'll have to ask Sony that."
"OK. Interesting."
Great to hear! Absolutely love The Order. SO much potential for future sequels.
Holy shit.
UltraGunner
Banned
RaD wanted so bad to make 1886 a movie that they felt burdened by being a video game developer. I can name 5 games that deserved sequels over this game
DieAntwoord
Banned
Don't care how many times I have to post it but the idea of the order set in WW2 with Alan Turing replacing Tesla and the sheer amount of rumors around the Nazis and the occult writes itself. Make it happen RAD!
lightskintwin
Banned
I kid you not, I thought the exact same thing except the Alan Turing replacement which is a pretty good idea. The problem with The Order being in Victorian London during 1886 coupled with its anachronistic heavy duty weapons is finding a good main enemy type to constantly fight in a Gears of War inspired third person, cover based shooter. You could fix all of that by setting it in a WW2 Nazi setting with a mix of zombie soldiers, monsters, and high powered tech.
Nightengale
Member
Game was very flawed in more ways than one, but I really would like to see a sequel that is cognisant and fixes it. For all its problems, it was an interesting setting they've made.
shinobi602
Member
Don't do this to yourself.Q: "Is there a future for the Order franchise?"
A: *smiling* "Uhhh. The best way to answer that ...wow....without giving any(thing away), how can I say this? Is there a future? Yes. That IP has a future. It's definitely built into the IP. That future was built from the very get go, from the first day we started working on it. There's a larger storyline. There's a macro story that keeps going. There's an IP that's actually even bigger than even the storylines we created. So, there are legs to this IP, definitely."
Q: "So, Sony sees it as a helluva investment. We're gonna keep pushing this baby?"
A: *smiling* "Well, you'll have to ask Sony that."
"OK. Interesting."
Great to hear! Absolutely love The Order. SO much potential for future sequels.
privitsan02
Member
Guessing that's a no? I wouldn't be one bit surprised.
lightskintwin
Banned
Let him dream.
Come on dude, don't be that guy...
Nah it was a truly bad game. I played a lot of shit (like that motorcycle game) but The Order pissed me of the most. I mean how can you spend so much fucking time on making such a beautiful game in a somewhat interesting environment (I personally didn't like it but there certainly was some hard work behind the entire lore/world) but then completely and I mean c o m p l e t e l y fuck up the gameplay part? Like didn't they play their own game before they released it? Did they run out of time? What in the world was going through their heads?
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Will watch later. I like The Order. It was just overpriced when it launched. You can get it for about $10 now.
I enjoyed my time with The Order enough to be very disappointed with the conclusion because I wanted to see more of the narrative. What about that lady who totally wants to bone me but then hates me, I have to tell her how it really is! I felt that the gameplay experience was about on par with what you'd see in the early Gears games before Epic learned how to really leverage scale to create more meaningful "bookend" encounters. I still think that in terms of pure image quality and static graphical fidelity The Order looks better than both UC4 and Gears 4, but I realize there's some subjectivity there so no need to start an argument with anyone over how dumb I am to feel that way.
Ultimately I bought the game at retail price even after all of the length/gameplay stuff blew up near release because I enjoyed Ready at Dawn's previous work and I wanted to see what they created for PS4, and I did not finish the game harboring any negativity about my purchase. Every ambitious developer who wants to continue innovating and creating great things has to take some incremental steps that occasionally don't line up with what the market wants at that exact moment, but to throw that progress away just because the product didn't make <x> profit is shortsighted and potentially foolish. I hope that both Sony and customers are able to see some of the brilliance shining through an admittedly lackluster consumer product and remain open to the possibility of leveraging that to make something that might be great in the future.
Ultimately I bought the game at retail price even after all of the length/gameplay stuff blew up near release because I enjoyed Ready at Dawn's previous work and I wanted to see what they created for PS4, and I did not finish the game harboring any negativity about my purchase. Every ambitious developer who wants to continue innovating and creating great things has to take some incremental steps that occasionally don't line up with what the market wants at that exact moment, but to throw that progress away just because the product didn't make <x> profit is shortsighted and potentially foolish. I hope that both Sony and customers are able to see some of the brilliance shining through an admittedly lackluster consumer product and remain open to the possibility of leveraging that to make something that might be great in the future.
Agreed, very far statement.
Inspector Q
Member
I would definitely like to see a sequel. I enjoyed the game when I finally played it a year after it came out, but I can definitely see why people would be really upset if they had to pay full price for it. It was really short with very little replay value.
Actually, one of the issues I had with the game was from a story perspective. Specifically, certain parts of the game felt off with the way Galahad was going around murdering people. It's been a while, so I can't remember full details, but I think it's when you are infiltrating your old HQ and you have to fight through a lot of soldiers. It seemed strange that Galahad seemingly had no problem slaughtering his former allies even though they were most likely unaware of the corruption taking place within the Knighthood.
They should have really had Galahad yelling at them to try and reason with them, even as you are fighting them. The whole thing just felt off to me. And I won't even get into the mandatory stealth section in the garden with the over-the-top murder-knife animations, lol.
Things like that wouldn't normally cross my mind in a videoogame, but it just felt off for Galahad's character.
Overall, I did enjoy the short time I had with the game and it's world/characters. I definitely think a quality MP mode would do a sequel wonders and add some value to the entire package. But I guess making a "quality" MP is easier said than done, heh.
Actually, one of the issues I had with the game was from a story perspective. Specifically, certain parts of the game felt off with the way Galahad was going around murdering people. It's been a while, so I can't remember full details, but I think it's when you are infiltrating your old HQ and you have to fight through a lot of soldiers. It seemed strange that Galahad seemingly had no problem slaughtering his former allies even though they were most likely unaware of the corruption taking place within the Knighthood.
They should have really had Galahad yelling at them to try and reason with them, even as you are fighting them. The whole thing just felt off to me. And I won't even get into the mandatory stealth section in the garden with the over-the-top murder-knife animations, lol.
Things like that wouldn't normally cross my mind in a videoogame, but it just felt off for Galahad's character.
Overall, I did enjoy the short time I had with the game and it's world/characters. I definitely think a quality MP mode would do a sequel wonders and add some value to the entire package. But I guess making a "quality" MP is easier said than done, heh.
To me, I think it might've worked better as it was if it were an episodic release. Despite being very well made, it did not provide anywhere near enough entertainment value to justify it being full price. I think most people were expecting a third person co-op shooter in Victorian England with sci-fi and supernatural elements. It would've been a much easier sell. The fact of the matter is that it felt incredibly limited in the gameplay department and overly scripted to the point where you're practically just going through barely interactive cinematics. It was just excessive, even for someone who usually enjoys that sort of thing. I think they took all of the wrong lessons from the games that they were trying to emulate.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Just about everything to do with the story is pretty bad. I mean it starts in media res for no reason, spoiling the corruption twist (even though it's pretty predictable), and then the game later pretends it didn't show you Igraine was alive in it when they make it look like the Lycan killed her. That's the least of it's problems though. The plot is pretty predictable, badly paced, and the characters are all one note and boring. I'm kind of baffled when people say the story is a strong point. The concept is great and there's a lot of potential for world building and lore, and the voice acting is great, but the actual story is at best average.
If they could improve gameplay massive this thing would've been the next big franchise for Sony. I understand what RAD tried to achieve but they failed miserable at it (making an interactive movie). Ofc not everyone can be top tier like Naughty Dog but ND's game besides telling a great story with believable and likeable characters are first and foremorst fun games to play! And that's what RAD needs to recognize: Games are meant to be fun. Give the player more things to do in your world than shooting through a small segment and watching the next cutscene.
Baron Von Beans
Member
I still think this game got a lot of unnecessary flak. I loved every bit of this game. It was a very original game set in familiar gameplay mechanics. Gorgeous as all hell, too. Not every game needs multiplayer, boss rush, etc.. I sincerely hope that RAD has future plans for this franchise.
pixelation
Member
Dang it Shinobi!!! T_T
GuitarAtomik
Member
The flak is pretty warranted though. The gameplay being familiar and serviceable would have been fine if the story elements the game leans heavily on had been above and beyond. It's trying to be an Uncharted or TLoU but totally misses why the story focus in those games work: A good plot and/or really good characters evenly interwoven with good gameplay.
Then the concept and setting ultimately work against it because they're so interesting and original (for a AAA game at least) and yet they pretty much waste it. You have a game about an Order of knights whose main purpose is to protect humanity against half breed supernatural creatures aaaaannd you make them fight humans 90% of the game. You put them in this really cool Victorian Steampunk world with Nicola Tesla making them crazy weapons aaaaaannnnd they make you shoot extremely conventional weapons for 80% of the game. Shit is frustrating.
Bolivar687
Banned
"Aaaannnnnndd" those are your personal, subjective, arguably unreasonable expectations.
A lot of people really, really loved what the team did with that game. It deserved a mixed critical reception, no question, we all understand why it was divisive. But like they said in the interview, it's always been a small team, they learn with every project, and they have so many different opportunities right now that make them such an interesting studio to watch.
Make no mistake, this video was to keep them relevant as they deliver a title for Game Informer's parent company. Their ambivalence during the interview suggests Sony wasn't happy with the outcome, the IP might be out of their hands, but it would be amazing if they were able to feed their learning experience from The Order and their current projects into a much improved sequel that would score better with mock reviewers and armchair analysts on NeoGAF. If not, it was an entertaining watch and I'm interested in how Deformers and their VR project turn out.
comshoplesce
Member
I did like it.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Honestly, I don't think it's subjective that the story isn't well put together or that the characters are one note and cliche. I don't think it's subjective that 90% of the enemies are human or that 80% of the time you're using weapons that could be in any game that took place in the real world during or post WW2. If you're fine with the fact that they pretty much only used this awesome setting and concept for the aesthetics and atmosphere, that's cool. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. But I hope you could understand why so many people were hoping that would bleed more in to the actual gameplay and that such an expectation wasn't "unreasonable".
Hey, I have nothing personal against RAD. I'm actually looking forward to Deformers and their VR game (assuming it comes to PC eventually lol). I'm not even against them giving The Order another shot if they believe they understand the faults of the first game. I'm only expressing why the game got so much flak.
I've always said it could have had its Assassin's Creed 2 moment. Now we'll never know.
It received far too much hate than it deserved. I, for one, really enjoyed it. I especially like the world and lore its created, and I liked the gameplay too. It was simple, yeah, but it was good, solid fun. It still needs improvements, though, such as on boss battles.
It would also help if they didn't have entire chapters that only had dialogue and cutscenes. I mean, hey, I'm not asking for combat, even just puzzles or platforming would do.
Also, horde mode would be fantastic. And more fights with the... halflings? Was that the collective term for the supernatural threats?
It would also help if they didn't have entire chapters that only had dialogue and cutscenes. I mean, hey, I'm not asking for combat, even just puzzles or platforming would do.
Also, horde mode would be fantastic. And more fights with the... halflings? Was that the collective term for the supernatural threats?
illmatic22
Banned
I wanted to like it but the game was boring. Visuals were great at least.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yeah, it was highly flawed but I think they deserve one more shot. Just make the level design a bit more interesting, don't control the pace of the game with forced walking sections and include some fun set-pieces. I felt like they had the framework of a really good TPS, but it was let down in other areas.
Oh, and also, if you're going to focus so much on plot remember to make that plot decent with a proper beginning, middle and end. 1886 felt like the prologue to a more interesting story.
Brad Grenz
Member
I really loved the game. A sequel would definitely be awesome and I think there's an opportunity to redeem the franchise's reception by building out the "checkboxes" as alluded to in the interview. Frankly, I always thought the idea that the game was a bad value was preposterous when you could see every single penny of your $60.00 in every lovingly crafted pixel in the game.
Aside from the lycan combat sequences which obviously never came together, the game also played exceptionally well. The characters and the story were fascinating and I loved the ending.
Aside from the lycan combat sequences which obviously never came together, the game also played exceptionally well. The characters and the story were fascinating and I loved the ending.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Yep. It had a fair share of mechanical and encounter design issues, but when the game was actually letting you play, shooting the arsenal was a hell of a lot of fun. If they made a sequel they need to figure out how to better balance the time in between encounters though in a way that isn't only cutscenes or forced walking. Dialogue options, puzzles, and some investigation (was always disappointed there was no functional use for picking up those pretty items) might be enough to properly fill it out. A properly paced story would be a necessity too, since they basically wrote a prologue as the main story last time.
Honestly, I'm just desperate for more games in a Victorian setting.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I feel like the story is one of bigger problems that I had with the game. This game clearly had a story in it but it felt like they were focusing on the background and the world a lot more than the main story itself.
I think this game has more negretives than postives, which makes me wonder if they will improve on it and not make the same mistake if they make a another one.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
I trusted you, RaD. Totally
And you delivered such a bad game
And you delivered such a bad game
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Glad to see so much love for The Order in this thread, it's usually the target of hyperbolic GAF hate. It wasn't a perfect game (those plot holes), but I had a blast with it, platinumed it and was sad there was no hard mode, I definitely would have gone through it again. I'd be fully on board for a sequel.
Checkerboard Render
Banned
Amazing graphics, still the best.
Idiotic story, pacing, and highly derivate gameplay. Really one of the most poorly executed moderate/big budget games I've played.
Idiotic story, pacing, and highly derivate gameplay. Really one of the most poorly executed moderate/big budget games I've played.
Except, you know, the "filmic" borders..
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