Yeah, I bet he knows that the whole kidnapping story Robert tells is a bunch of bullshit and Lyanna actually ran away with Rhaegar but if I had to bet, I'd say he doesn't have any clue that Jon isn't Ned's kid. Also, he probably would've played that piece long ago when he was trying to get the Lannisters and Starks against each other. What better way to add even more fuel to the fire than to pit Robert against Ned?
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
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Yeah, I bet he knows that the whole kidnapping story Robert tells is a bunch of bullshit and Lyanna actually ran away with Rhaegar but if I had to bet, I'd say he doesn't have any clue that Jon isn't Ned's kid. Also, he probably would've played that piece long ago when he was trying to get the Lannisters and Starks against each other. What better way to add even more fuel to the fire than to pit Robert against Ned?
The look he gave Sansa in the crypts when she spouted the "he kidnapped my aunt" line, is proof that he doesn't believe the official story. But you're right in that there's no way he'd know that Jon's isn't Ned's kid.
Atomic Odin
Member
I binge watched all the seasons before s7 and I have always wondered, why did Tyrion looked at Littlefinger very seriously in that scene and said "So much to be thankful for"???
Does he knows he betrayed Ned and/or is the sole reason why all the shit started in the first place?
Vincent Alexander
Member
LittleFinger knows everything thanks to his eyes and ears everywhere! The most generic trick to knowing things in all of fiction. I can't wait for him to die.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Yea. Littlefinger has no clue that Jon is Rhaegar's. But he's 100% certain, Lyanna wasn't kidnapped. The rebellion took a year I think, so since Robert believed Ned's story, it just became official. I think the story of Jon being Ned's bastard is believable because Ned wanted it so, and people took his word for it for coming out and confirming it.
Nameless
Member
Seriously, though, I came into the season expecting Cersei to die and won't be surprised if/when that dark day comes. But I underestimated the lengths Dany would travel to pull off the pipe dream of a non-destructive, PR friendly conquest. Don't get me wrong, these efforts should be applauded on principle, but in practice it's naive to think she can conquerer the Seven Kingdoms by force with one or both hands tied behind her back -- especially with the severe lack of military experience in her inner circle. The longer it takes Dany to stop bullshitting it GO FOR IT or come up with a plan that works, the better Cersei's chances.
She doesn't know it, but Cersei doesn't even need to beat Dany, she just needs to survive long enough for The Night King to breach The Wall and all hell to break loose.
Seriously, though, I came into the season expecting Cersei to die and won't be surprised if/when that dark day comes. But I underestimated the lengths Dany would travel to pull off the pipe dream of a non-destructive, PR friendly conquest. Don't get me wrong, these efforts should be applauded on principle, but in practice it's naive to think she can conquerer the Seven Kingdoms by force with one or both hands tied behind her back -- especially with the severe lack of military experience in her inner circle. The longer it takes Dany to stop bullshitting it GO FOR IT or come up with a plan that works, the better Cersei's chances.
She doesn't know it, but Cersei doesn't even need to beat Dany, she just needs to survive long enough for The Night King to breach The Wall and all hell to break lose.
The minute she goes that path, you'll be first in line condemning her lol. I'm glad she's disappointing you
Yeah you're right about Dany's lack of experienced military commanders. She goes from having military heavy counsel, to losing Ser Barristan, Ser Jorah, and Dario. Her military moves are being planned and orchestrated by a politician pretty much, and it's showing.
The Artisan
Member
i wonder if they'll deal with the night king and then Cersei afterwards like how Davos waited until after the battle of the bastards to confront Melisandre about princess Shireen.
Vincent Alexander
Member
It isn't that Tyrion is doing a poor job. It's that Cersei had a complete wild card that screwed his plans---Euron. Love him or hate him, but if he didn't wreck ships and prevent siege of King's Landing, Tyrion's plan would have worked. Even if Casterly Rock was abandoned. The siege of King's Landing by 2 armies would have been hard for Lannister army to break, especially if Dany showed up with a dragon to keep CR troops from sandwiching siege.
It is a good thing the writers....er....Cersei had Euron... -cough-
It is a good thing the writers....er....Cersei had Euron... -cough-
Nameless
Member
The minute she goes that path, you'll be first in line condemning her lol. I'm glad she's disappointing you
Disappointed? On this current path she's loses or gives up, Cersei survives, civilian casualties are kept to a minimum. Everyone wins, except you Heshinsi.
The Artisan
Member
The poor job thing makes sense he even admitted to that but it's the way they wrote him. Here's what I said in the other thread
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah...all good points. And what sucks is that I feel like we should be seeing Tyrion at his best at this point.
The Artisan
Member
Yes, we really should. Season 7 is technically the first half of the final season and we should see all of the characters at their full potential now. But they're wasting Tyrion.
Maybe he won't make it out of the story alive. He might even have to fight, fight in the winter war. He hasn't been much of a fighter, same goes for Davos unfortunately I think one day his cut off fingers will be the end of him
Tyrion will, I think, be part of the long play. He sees the endgame, but he serves a Queen who does not. It might take Jorah coming back to make her listen, but it will happen (hopefully.) Tyrion has made mistakes, but they are pretty much all attributable to having poor intel. His strategy is sound. It's just a question of whether or not Dany listens to him once he has it spot-on.
I think Jorah will be the vehicle for that.
Or Cersei will commit the ultimate crime that even Aerys didn't - attempt to betray everyone as they fight the Night King. I'm still holding out for her turning full final boss by kissing the Night King and turning into the Night Queen or something super stupid like that.
Vincent Alexander
Member
My only prayer is that we don't see Cersei turn good in the end and sacrifice herself, or do something noble to help everyone.
Nameless
Member
What exactly has Tyrion done outside of coming up with a clever trick for Wildfire? Tywin still had to save his ass at the Blackwater and Dany had to save his ass in Meereen. He's a smart dude, I'd want him as one of many voices on my council, but nothing on his resume tells me he alone should be out strategizing Randyll Tarly or besting Euron in naval tactics. He's no Battle Commander. It makes perfect sense for him to be out of his depth.
The Artisan
Member
Jorah would definitely be a way better military commander, that's for sure. I am wondering how Jorah will react to Jon. Will he see him as another Daario, or as another Sam? I mean, he was a former brother of the Night's Watch, fighting for his father just like Sam did, so...
Cersei would have to go waaaaaay up north to do something super stupid like that; assuming unless the Night King makes it all the way down to King's Landing during the winter war. I'd imagine though if he made it that far down the continent then it'd have to mean that a lot of people in the north would've already been dead by then, though.
The Artisan
Member
Yeah I agree with this. He was a good Hand when he was in King's Landing, but that's because he knows King's Landing. He doesn't know what he's doing now and definitely shouldn't be the main council for war.
edit: sorry for double post
shit, that's enough of me for tonight
How can you care about civilians and root for Cersei at the same time? I get liking Cersei because she's an awesome character and Lena Headey is a phenomenal actress. But come on. This lady sends the Mountain to bash people's skulls in for making fun of her, and blows up entire districts to kill all her enemies while giving two shits about collateral damage.
Imagine what she'll do when civilians finally turn on her. How many more districts will "accidentally" be destroyed in her attempt to hold onto power? Funny thing about tyrants is that eventually people get tired of their shit.
Oh an Artisan, your bit about Tyrion's idiotic comment to Dany after her asking him about Jon's claim, made me realise how stupid that whole scene was. He tells Jon he believes him, and yet when Dany asks for his opinion on it, he doesn't give her a straight answer.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Tyrion has kind of become the Vegeta of Game of Thrones, hasn't he?
Hahaha yes, someone else who believes my theory that the Night King is doing all this for a chance at love. Even the Frankenstein monster wanted a misses, and we all know how much death and destruction he left in his wake in order to make that happen.
She's lost almost everything and her pride is through the roof. I could see it.
"Wait, so what you're saying is that if I join up with you, I get to be an ice queen, live forever, and get to participate in wiping out every living person in Westeros? Yeah that sounds like something that would interest me, I even have a zombie bodyguard so you know I'm down for some necromancy. Promise me that my brother the Imp and Sansa are left alive for me, and you've got yourself a Queen."
TimeEffect
Member
Wait, so the Lannisters didn't try to assassinate Bran? It was LF? to stir up shit, right? Memories a little hazy, I had thought Lannisters knew LF sent the dagger or something.
How do the lannisters not know it was LF?
How do the lannisters not know it was LF?
We don't know who tried to assassinate Bran. Only that LF lied and put the blame on Tyrion, which caused dumb ass Catlyn to kidnap him, which led to Jaime attacking Ned, which in turn made Tywin have to take to the battlefield to get Tyrion back, and on and on. LF is conniving little shit that's for sure.
TimeEffect
Member
Lol. Will they get no kind of character development at all? Makes it easy to cheer against them, but what if the Night Fam have their own hopes and desires.
By the way, I get the Night King has an army of mindless undead, but who were his pals that seemed sentient? Is he and like his pals the only living walkers? Where did he live all this time and what did he do?
Nameless
Member
Same way I rooted for Stannis, and used to root for Dany despite knowing what her intentions were. I've never denied that Cersei was a terrible, ruthless person and wouldn't necessarily condemn Dany for going full-on Aegon. Though, if need be, I would highlight her actions when people pretended like her shit doesn't stink while overstating comparable or lesser crimes of other characters.
Yeah that's what Robert feared but starving the city isn't the best plan either. Civilians still suffer and you're basically playing a loooong game of chicken against a woman who won't be swayed by the ills of the common folk. They will starve to death, riot & die, or riot & overthrow her. None of these are great outcomes. The smartest course would be to sneak someone into the city and have her assassinated. Easier said than done but still better than the alternatives.
Tyrion's problem is hes playing by the old rules (thinking that the Rock had value in this war like it would have had Tywin been leading the opposition) and trying too hard to minimize damages for both strategic and selfish reasons (he was suffering a bit watching lannisters burn, even considering the current situation, and that's without even going into what would happen to Jamie.)
He's not wrong that Dany would have a harder time if her Dothraki were raping the countryside and KL was roasting, but that type of council is a little less valuable when going against someone as fucking nuts as Cersei.
Like what if Crastor was actually killing his boys before the Night King offered to adopt them? So back in the ice village, there are a bunch of adopted ice babies, and the Night King is like a saviour to them, and humanity is something they fear. Papa Night King needs a Night Mom to help him raise his brood, but he also needs to make the world a safer place for his boys to grow up in. In order to accomplish both, he sets out on a path to wipe out as many humans as possible, while marching south to find the perfect Ice Queen Mommy.
Being a single dad raising god knows how many boys can get tough for anyone.
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken is next up on my re-watch.
There's a whole lot less Dorne than I once remembered. Also, I was reading a bit about this episode, and apparently they only had a week to film the whole set piece and they didn't allow them to film at night, which was originally when Jaime and Bronn snuck into the palace. They were also not allowed to film anything in tight corridors, so they had to do the whole fight in the courtyard but they added some pots and other objects to make the fight feel a bit more restricted like it was originally in the script.
They really fucked themselves by picking that palace to film, I mean, the location is gorgeous but goddamn were they restricted.
There's a whole lot less Dorne than I once remembered. Also, I was reading a bit about this episode, and apparently they only had a week to film the whole set piece and they didn't allow them to film at night, which was originally when Jaime and Bronn snuck into the palace. They were also not allowed to film anything in tight corridors, so they had to do the whole fight in the courtyard but they added some pots and other objects to make the fight feel a bit more restricted like it was originally in the script.
They really fucked themselves by picking that palace to film, I mean, the location is gorgeous but goddamn were they restricted.
broncobuster
Banned
I understand why dragons burning the down KL is not a good look for Dany, but seemingly people are cool with Cercei nuking the pope, the queen (?), among others.
DoomGyver
Member
Cersie framed it as "a terrible accident" the general public might not know the truth.
Seductivpancakes
Member
What if Cersei allies with the Night King and becomes the Night Queen?
Nameless
Member
All those people in the Sept were poisoned by their enemies. Get your facts straight.
I can't believe these people believe the enemy's lies.
They're offering her a path to surrender and she's mulling it over, when out of nowhere the Mountain plunges his sword through her back. A piece of him has been fighting to be free from his cursed zombie existence. They then both die.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
Bran must have know Jon's blood ties to the Targaryens by now, right?
Yeah; that was one of the major events of the Season 6 finale. Bran witnessing Jon's birth.
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
I wonder if Bran will tell him. Then again, would Jon believe him?
We shall see; I have a feeling Bran knows Jon is going to find out somehow, without Bran having to tell him.
7he Talon
Member
My guess is that it'll have something to do with dragons. He'll survive their fire or something like that.
ComputerBlue
Member
Qyburn secretly controls The Mountain, being nearly killed by him at Harrenhal by Lannister orders, only to be saved by a Stark, seeks vengeance in a way similar to how Varys did, slowly working his way up the ladder, into a position of influence and in the company of power. Until he's ready to strike and get his revenge on the Lannies. Then offering his services and that of his creations to The North, where the real battle for survival will take place.
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