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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Robdraggoo
Member
Oh isnt it buried in the winterfell crypts. Little finger brought neds body to kat at renlies camp in season 2. Don't know if that included his head or not.
RustyNails
Member
That kid...murdered Jon Snow. If he'd have let Olly and the backstabbers walk, he'd have made bigger mistake than Ned ever did. Who's to know Olly wont backstab him again?
Jon's argument was that the family has already been punished - those that committed and supported the treason are all dead. The two families are now headed by children. Raised right, those kids will remember Jon's mercy to them and what happened to their parents and the loyalty they had previously will be restored.
Sansa is correct in that treason should be punished, loyalty rewarded, but in this case it's a bit grey. Do you punish a whole family for the deeds of the father and his retainers? I think in the North, the answer would be no. Punish only the guilty. The reaction of the Lords in attendance seems to imply they're cool with his decision.
That being said, I think a middle ground between Sansa and Jon would have made the most sense - they keep their house and their titles, deeds, etc, but take some of their lesser keeps and gift them to the loyal. A punishment to the house, but a fair one.
Could be a hilarious twist if down the line Euron's whole fleet sinks because his ships are all garbage.
Netherscourge
Banned
Joffrey was showing off Ned's head to Sansa, spiked to a wall in King's Landing back then too. I think it's probably still there.
yeah that was quite ridiculous, but they saved (in their mind) by euron saying that they stole his best ships, not ALL of his ships.
still, mess
If that was their plan why were they chasing down Bran and trying to kill him in season 6?
My point is that post-revival Jon seems to be different than pre-revival Jon. After coming back from the dead Jon was basically "fuck this", killed the people who betrayed him, and basically said fuck that night's watch crap. The only reason he didn't kill Melissandre was because he owed her one for bringing him back from the dead, and made it perfectly clear that he wouldn't be forgiving if he saw her again. Jon Snow doesn't seem as kind and forgiving as he used to be - he's just not stupid enough to make even more potential enemies when he has an army approaching his homeland, like Sansa seemingly is.
NintendosBooger
Member
I'm surprised there wasn't at least a token force stationed at Dragonstone, either Stannis's men or the Lannister's upon learning it had been abandoned. It's still a high value strategic location as Kings Landing is exposed to it.
I thought this said 'cutting raw timber' and was thinking it was one of the most absurd things I'd ever read on here.
*picks up axe*
"In 100 years time this tree will fall to my grandchildren"
But yes, in a series with a lot of time / travel shenanigans, the Ironborn fleet really stands out as the worst one to me. It shouldn't exist.
Robdraggoo
Member
But after that tyrion gave Neds body back to Kat as a sign of good faith. But your right, the head could still be there. Don't think joff would give up his trophy despite tyrions order.
MMBosstones86
Member
"You think you're fooling anyone with that topknot?"
It's only high value if you have a fleet to go with it, otherwise it's just a resource pit. The Lannisters don't have a fleet anymore, and Stannis' people probably would have ditched the place as soon as they heard about his defeat. At most some pirates might take up residence once they realized it was abandoned, but they'd high tail it out of there as soon as they knew Daenerys was coming.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
She's actually the perfect mix between both worlds. Raised by the Starks with their good deeds and then raised by the liars and backstabbers in KL. She's seen the best of both worlds.
Vire
Member
Episode was fine, but I'm growing a little worried about everything has become so incredibly predictable. I could have told you literally everything that would have happened save for the Frey wine thing which in the grand scheme of things isn't important at all.
Everything has been so heavily foreshadowed that nothing surprises anymore.
Everything has been so heavily foreshadowed that nothing surprises anymore.
There wasn't much happening in this episode that was supposed to be a surprised.
demosthenes
Member
Got burned in season 1.
Vire
Member
The problem is it feels like its going through the motions. Yes we need to setup this guy here and that guy there even though we already knew all of these things would happen as a viewer.
Robdraggoo
Member
Oh, when?
Not every episode needs to be some shocking blindside twist, honestly.
Did a kickass Stevie Wonder cover and nothing else of merit.
Vire
Member
Suppose so, I don't mean a shocking twist, but maybe something not necessarily expected to play out exactly how it was envisioned in my head all these months in waiting. We were waiting for the Greyjoys to team with the Lannisters, waiting on Danny to arrive at Dragonstone, waiting for the war to start burgeoning again between the north and south. I guess the pieces are in place, but it just didn't do in a very interesting way. I don't know how else to describe it, it wasn't bad at all per say. Just almost formulaic.
demosthenes
Member
When he threw the lantern on the wight (s). Just remember because my gf and I just rewatched. He had his bandage for like a week.
Yeah it was a bit formulaic because this episode was more or less a continuation of what we saw at the very end of season 6 - all of the pieces falling into place. This entire episode was basically the equivalent of players setting up a board game, with Danny literally ending the episode with "shall we begin" while pretty much standing over a wooden board game. I just don't see how you can do it without it coming off predictable considering all of the major players left are in positions where they can't really have something end up going "unexpected" without it coming off as really forced.
On a different note, the Ed Sheeran complaints are really stupid in my opinion. Dude was in once scene, didn't even have a speaking role after he stopped singing, and his look blends into the Westeros aesthetic really well. It's complaining for the sake of complaining.
ComputerBlue
Member
Stop looking at the short term and think of all the shit that happened before the pieces fell into place because we've really been waiting for this since the near beginning. Most of it wasn't formulaic.
black_clavus
Neo Member
This episode is fine overall, there's a lot of good moments indeed.
I do hope we'll meet the army of dead sooner
I do hope we'll meet the army of dead sooner
KaoteK
Member
As someone who fucking can't stand Ed Sheeran (thanks to my grade 1 class performing "shape of you" for the end of year party)
I can't say I noticed him. I was wishing him a grizzly death on the show when I heard he was appearing though.
Really enjoyed the episode, it set things up nicely.
I can't say I noticed him. I was wishing him a grizzly death on the show when I heard he was appearing though.
Really enjoyed the episode, it set things up nicely.
The Artisan
Member
Lyanna Mormont looked like she was siding with Sansa though, and she hasn't had any Cersei influence on her at all. Sansa having spent so much time with Cersei now knows about the dark side of things, but I don't think she has embraced it like Cersei has.
Cracklox
Member
This and the post you quoted had me rolling. Such good emphasis on his c-bombs
schwabdizzle
Banned
Season 8 buddy.
Astral Dog
Member
Im starting to get bored of Aria and her ninja/magic powers.
Except for the cake, that was cool 🍰
Except for the cake, that was cool 🍰
Yeah. Having Targaryen blood doesn't necessarily make you a "dragon". For example, Viserys and his golden crown.
Vire
Member
"Winter is here... kinda."
Maybe its different now that he's reborn!
To me Sansa seems like an amalgamation of the worst parts of the Starks and the worst parts of the Kings Landing folk. She's vengeful like Cersei, overlooks the big picture like the rest of the Starks tend to do, and now she's stirring the politics pot like Littlefinger. One hollow threat from Cersei and suddenly Sansa temporarily forgot about the White Walkers and was focused on the threat of a weakened Lannister force that couldn't even march on Winterfell if it wanted to
She's still allowing her personal vendettas dictate her decisions, which honestly is easy to understand considering the torture and hell she's endured over the course of six seasons. Unfortunately, like Ned and Robb with their honor and loyalty, being blinded by those emotions will likely get her killed. Jon needs to help her understand that Cersei and the Lannister's are beyond trivial at this point with the Night King marching down from the North. Nothing else matters if they don't win that fight.
umop_3pisdn
Member
I think D & D just don't know what to do with Sansa tbh.
Ragnarsson
Member
Apart from the Ed Sheeran scene, which really annoyed me mostly because of his singing delivery (he can't help but sing with grating little vocal flourishes that made that song sound like "2017 pop", instead of "medieval ballad"), that was a very good premiere. Every storyline in the show is moving somewhere interesting and I can't wait to see most things put into motion.
Yeah, I can absolutely understand why she's letting that stuff dictate her. But Sansa seems to be stirring a pot that really shouldn't be messed with at all right now. This is why I think Jon letting the past be the past with the Karstarks was the right decision - the only immediate threat to the North right now is the Night King, and doing something that risks making more enemies (especially with houses already on shaky ground with the Starks) is a bad idea.
Basically, yeah, what you said. Jon needs to make Sansa understand that the Lannisters are irrelevant at this point.
Totally agree. I appreciate that Sansa has finally grown independent and is standing up for herself and voicing her opinions, but that wasn't the time, especially in front of Jon's followers as it just undermines his authority at a critical point in planning the North's defense. I'm certain that Littlefinger is going to continue using her emotions to his advantage and fuck with Jon.
The Artisan
Member
I'm not saying you're wrong (although the worst part of the Starks to me is just making naive ass mistakes), but Sansa, on the show is like, what, 17? She's still just a kid and she's been through so much fucked up shit. She watched her father get killed by a beheading, then she had to look at the beheaded head, along with her septa's beheaded head who probably died trying to protect her. And then, she almost gets raped in an alleyway of King's Landing.
A year (?) or so later, she receives news of her brother and mothers' deaths and is betrothed to Tyrion Lannister, who was like 3 times her age at that point. A little while later, she is met with some of the only family she has left on her mother's side, only to see that her Aunt Lysa is a nutcase herself. Maybe she and Robin can get along though.
But then, she is actually raped by one of the most evil characters of the show. She goes through all that, and then finally she gets her home back, with a (half) sibling that she was least close with growing up. What would be the first thing on your mind?
edit: and just to be clear, without even saying whether Jon made the right choice or not, I just wish the guy would try to sympathize with his sister a little bit. He's gone through some things himself but he is the leader. Has Sansa even told him everything that's happened to her offscreen? He should at least try to understand why Sansa is so helllbent on vengeance - even if afterwards he has to get her to understand that the Night King's army is more important right now.
Pagusas
Elden Member
speaking of kinder to people bent on revenge, In the back of my head i expect the next episode to start with Arya having murdered all the Lanister soldiers and taken a face of one of them. That would make the whole scene of them getting along nothing more than a way to show she's completely lost her compassion and is now a cold blooded killer.
Throwing shade to the "man-bun" I hope.
I'm glad this episode hit all the main characters even for a little bit. Did they miss anyone?
Astral Dog
Member
I think im glad to not know who Ed Shereen is 😆
That scene was tense because they could be murderers rapists singing but its just a bunch of common pop singers.
That scene was tense because they could be murderers rapists singing but its just a bunch of common pop singers.
I have to imagine they've talked about it off screen at some point given the time jump between seasons. But yeah it seems like something they need to talk out and Sansa needs to come to the understanding that Kings Landing doesn't matter. I wonder if we'll get some kind of Jon Snow/Littlefinger confrontation a bit if Littlefinger starts messing with Jon and Sansa.
I'd be down for this. Especially if she takes Ed Sheeran's face
Mr_Antimatter
Member
She spared the Umbers and Karstarks, but what of what remains of the Bolton's holdings? I'm surprised they didn't give away dreadfort and his lands to some loyal lords.
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