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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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CLEEK

Member
Locke's whole recent arc was an odd thing. He showed up one episode, died the next, and didn't really have any impact on anything.

He was in Season 3. He wasn't a new character.

Season 3 - his treatment of Jamie - showed his character, and how he was the perfect fit for an assassination of the two Stark children.
 

effzee

Member
Locke's whole recent arc was an odd thing. He showed up one episode, died the next, and didn't really have any impact on anything.

But what more is there supposed to be him? He is part of the Bolton crew and he was sent to kill the remaining Stark boys. He used Jon Snow to get beyond the wall and found Bran. Died when he tried taking him.

He didn't really have an arc.
 
That fight was really lame. The actors were falling all over themselves, particularly Snow's. What happened? The Hound had an awesome fight at the start of this season, and I'm positive Snow's older fights have looked better than this stumbling mess.
 
I hope the breast feeding kid will be the next to "fly", even if the glass bird is probably symbolizing Lysa. I'm completely convinced Littlefinger will make sure they have an "accident" so he can marry the daughter of the woman he loved. I wouldn't mind seeing Sansa kill Littlefinger, but I'm not sure she has it in her, even now.
 

rhino4evr

Member
That fight was really lame. The actors were falling all over themselves, particularly Snow's. What happened? The Hound had an awesome fight at the start of this season, and I'm positive Snow's older fights have looked better than this stumbling mess.

It was filmed in the dark, and it flowed really well considering.
 

Vhagar

Neo Member
That fight was really lame. The actors were falling all over themselves, particularly Snow's. What happened? The Hound had an awesome fight at the start of this season, and I'm positive Snow's older fights have looked better than this stumbling mess.

Karl was drunk and Oberyn did say, "longsword is a bad option in close quarters".
I think the fight was supposed to be chaotic and a mess.
 

Dysun

Member
I just hope it was a rushed scene, and not a sign that Jon Snow's actor has decided practicing the choreography beforehand is now beneath him.

Because honestly Jaime's left handed sword fighting looked several more times steady than that.
 

demolitio

Member
I'm pretty grateful for Valyrian steel just being a bit sharper and stronger than regular steel, and not weeaboo wet dream katana annoying. Valyrian steel swords seem more like a prestige thing than an actual advantage anyway, Tywin mentioning in the opening that "now we have one as well" sounded like fuck yes we're finally a proper house

That's what I was trying to say though. It's not magical (it might be for dragons or some shit..lol) but it is supposed to be the strongest steel in the world, even stronger than modern steel, so you would think with a Valyrian great-sword going up against some normal daggers, he could just use brute force to win.

It was more about the fact that Karl was using small daggers. I wouldn't expect a fight against another swordsman to be so easy, but with a great-sword made out of the strongest but lightest steel, it shouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility since some katanas could cut through European claymores.

Not disappointed obviously, just figured that would have been funnier. It definitely is a lot about the prestige though obviously for these houses.
 

Showaddy

Member
I just hope it was a rushed scene, and not a sign that Jon Snow's actor has decided practicing the choreography beforehand is now beneath him.

Because honestly Jaime's left handed sword fighting looked several more times steady than that.

But it should be, Jaime & Bronn aren't 2 guys flaying all over the place in a dank hut trying to kill each other.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
And Jaime and Bronn are both veteran fighters, they would crush Jon Snow with their left hand.

For real. Jon Snow has been fighting rejects and people without proper training for the most part. He's good, but he's also never really been pushed until this fight.

Though the entire fight was more or less set up for him to lose. It was a skilled opponent in tight quarters and he was using a weapon that wasn't suited to it at all, while the other guy was. There was no way for him to win that fight fairly.
 

Dennis

Banned
Jaime was supposed to be one of the best swordfighters so it makes sense that even using his other hand he would still know the business.

What the fuck does Jon Snow knows? Nothing, that is what.
 

Facism

Gold Member
simping nobles

Joffrie's greasy cunt

Both had me in fucking stitches. The way the Hound says Cunt too, like he's practiced and perfected it.
 
I thought the bigger reveal was that not only is the crown in huge debt (partly due to Littlefinger cooking the books), but also that the Lannister fortune is running dry. So really now all the Lannisters have as leverage is their political power. If the Tyrells lost their current political standing they go back to highgarden and do their thing, if the Lannisters fall then thy're ruined. And the Tyrells are subtly, steadily eating away at the Lannister's political power - Margery has already established herself as the people's queen and there's no doubt she'll be the dominant force when she becomes the official queen. Olenna knows about the iron bank debt, but probably not about the Lannister gold running out, so she's probably in an even stronger position than she realises.

It may even impact on the trial. Tyrion thinks Mace Tyrell will do as Tywin instructs, but it's more likely be the other way round. I'd expect Mace Tyrell to vote as his mummy instructs - will Tywin risk going against the family that are keeping his afloat? I'd expect Olenna the kingslayer to be perfectly happy to see Tyrion convicted.

The reveal about Littlefinger planning the Jon Arryn assassination at the same time as blaming the Lannisters was interesting but I don't see it as being that impactful on what's going to happen next.

I'm surprised there's no talk of her flat out manipulating her aunt. Remember Littlefinger telling her something along the lines of everyone is a liar in King's Landing, and she's the worst of them all. Her aunt said she would know if she lied the way she held her and completely ate up the lies of Littlefinger supposedly bullying her. Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere really...

To me, this looked like Sansa's first real step to start playing the game.

Yep. I think Sansa was so convincing that a lot of people didn't see the deception. Sansa's brilliant, one of my favourite characters in the show.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm surprised there's no talk of her flat out manipulating her aunt. Remember Littlefinger telling her something along the lines of everyone is a liar in King's Landing, and she's the worst of them all. Her aunt said she would know if she lied the way she held her and completely ate up the lies of Littlefinger supposedly bullying her. Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere really...

To me, this looked like Sansa's first real step to start playing the game. Funny thing is that Arya has had some of the best physical mentors in the world with her brothers & father teaching her how to fight using an arrow and a sword, then one of the best swordsmen from Bravos learning water dancing style, watching Jaqen in assassination, The Hound and even what looked to be the best archer from the Brotherhood without banners teaching her how to shoot arrows better and faster. Then you have Sansa from the gullible idiot through most of the 1st season, getting a lesson of the game through Joffrey by the end of it, then basically watching the biggest manipulators in the world all around her at King's Landing. Cersei giving her some tips initially on how to handle the shit she takes, Littlefinger has been trying to teach her since he met her by the looks of things, and if she has any sense she learned enough from Olenna and Margerie and how manipulating the latter is especially. Obviously Arya is far sharper, but you have got to think at this point, Sansa will begin to get better through the use of manipulation and tricks while Arya moreso on a physical level, even though the girl is incredibly observant and manipulative herself.

I think she's less "playing the game" and more "accepting her place/reassuring people of what they think of her" so she can keep her skin.
 
She will start playing the game soon. She has to she is basically a younger version of Cersi. All the crap that Cersi went through in her younger days is what gave her all that wisdom, and venom. Sansa is now going through the same thing. Aka being tossed around for other people's ambitions.
 

Ratrat

Member
Cercei had her entire family slaughtered and was forced to marry the enemy and publicly beaten and humiliated?

'Some of the things he did shocked me'

Someone remind me but didnt she have a bunch of babies murdered in season one?
 

Bo-Locks

Member
In one of the videos posted a couple of pages back, the actors briefly talk about the choreography of the fight scene. It was meant to be a little awkward for Jon since he had a longsword in a tight, confined space. I thought the fight scene was fine.

And we all know Lysa and that kid are going through that Moon door at some point, right?

Also, I remember thinking at the time back in episode 1 or 2 when it showed John Arryn, and Jaime and Cersai were talking about his death, that they never actually admitted or acknowledged their role in his death. I thought it was weird at the time, but yeah, this was one hell of a pay-off.

simping nobles

Joffrie's greasy cunt

Both had me in fucking stitches. The way the Hound says Cunt too, like he's practiced and perfected it.

Rory McCann is Scottish, so it comes naturally to him.

His best line: "If any man dies with a clean sword, I'll rape his fucking corpse"!
 
In a sense both women lives are dictated by their last names. Nothing of their doing is from choice but rather circumstances.

And eventually sansa will hit a point where she fights back and we saw it last week with her lysa. She's gaining the ability to lie, and eventually she will learn to manipulate, and once that happens all bets are off.

Unless. ... she dies before that. Which is totally plausible on this show.
 

Bo-Locks

Member
Cercei had her entire family slaughtered and was forced to marry the enemy and publicly beaten and humiliated?

'Some of the things he did shocked me'

Someone remind me but didnt she have a bunch of babies murdered in season one?

Killing the bastards, including babies, was done on Joffrey's orders. Tyrion confronts Cersie about it and she looks shocked and admitted she had no idea about it.
 

TheContact

Member
That's what I was trying to say though. It's not magical (it might be for dragons or some shit..lol) but it is supposed to be the strongest steel in the world, even stronger than modern steel, so you would think with a Valyrian great-sword going up against some normal daggers, he could just use brute force to win.

It was more about the fact that Karl was using small daggers. I wouldn't expect a fight against another swordsman to be so easy, but with a great-sword made out of the strongest but lightest steel, it shouldn't have been out of the realm of possibility since some katanas could cut through European claymores.

Not disappointed obviously, just figured that would have been funnier. It definitely is a lot about the prestige though obviously for these houses.

Their valyrian steel is probably like our Damascus steel
 

ASIS

Member
In a sense both women lives are dictated by their last names. Nothing of their doing is from choice but rather circumstances.

And eventually sansa will hit a point where she fights back and we saw it last week with her lysa. She's gaining the ability to lie, and eventually she will learn to manipulate, and once that happens all bets are off.

Unless. ... she dies before that. Which is totally plausible on this show.

when did that happen? All I saw was Sansa gaining the ability to think. Which is still an improvement, but at this rate she'll hit 45 before she realizes that she has to act or she's doomed.
 

B.O.O.M

Member
I get the feeling that Iron Bank might end up being a villain in this story

and water dancing style rendered useless by a mere piece of armor ...
 
Olenna knows about the iron bank debt, but probably not about the Lannister gold running out, so she's probably in an even stronger position than she realises.

I hope this becomes a plot point later on, someone realizing the Lannisters' mines have run dry. I'm assuming the Lannisters have multiple mines, and each would have hundreds of workers. Varys or someone would have spies that would let them know they haven't found any gold in 3 years.
 

Vhagar

Neo Member
I get the feeling that Iron Bank might end up being a villain in this story

and water dancing style rendered useless by a mere piece of armor ...

Water dancing style rendered useless because Arya is a 13 year old kid who only has limited training with a tiny sword going up against the Hound who is a seasoned warrior, a huge man and has thick armor.
 

Jaeger

Member
Just watched a bunch of comicbookgirl19's EPIC HISTORY vids. Holy shit. Enlightened completely on the storyline.Things make much more sense, now.
 

And_Boy

Member
I like Littlefinger. Seems like the smartest man in Westeros. Kinda pity he is villain (but so good at it), really don't want him to be killed
 

7aged

Member
To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

1- The bad acting. Talking in a shifty voice and looking toward the horizon while making machiavellian polemics is just straight up cartoon villain.
2- The reveal itself was so clumsy. "my love let me reveal our secrets to the audience out loud while we embrace!"

But let's get to the core issue. As a plot element it doesn't make sense at all. It reeks of tying up loose ends post-fact with the benefit of hindsight.

What's the motive for littlefinger to top off Jon Aryn? There is no benefit to be had.
Assume you're looking for an opportunity to exploit some turmoil to better your situation and you hear that the hand of the king is digging up on rumours about the king's children.
If you want to instigate a succession crisis you don't kill the person digging, you kill the king quickly before the scandal becomes public and let it all brew.
Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was. Had Cersei not arranged for his accident, the succession crisis wouldn't have happened at all. At best the Lannisters could've gotten disgraced if the scandal blew up, but an all out civil war? no way.

The Lannister's finances arc though is very interesting.
 
It's pretty hilarious that the moon door is wide open despite looking like they have the means to close it. It's like they are asking for it lol
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

1- The bad acting. Talking in a shifty voice and looking toward the horizon while making machiavellian polemics is just straight up cartoon villain.
2- The reveal itself was so clumsy. "my love let me reveal our secrets to the audience out loud while we embrace!"

But let's get to the core issue. As a plot element it doesn't make sense at all. It reeks of tying up loose ends post-fact with the benefit of hindsight.

What's the motive for littlefinger to top off Jon Aryn? There is no benefit to be had.

Assume you're looking for an opportunity to exploit some turmoil to better your situation and you hear that the hand of the king is digging up on rumours about the king's children.
If you want to instigate a succession crisis you don't kill the person digging, you kill the king quickly before the scandal becomes public and let it all brew.
Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was. Had Cersei not arranged for his accident, the succession crisis wouldn't have happened at all. At best the Lannisters could've gotten disgraced if the scandal blew up, but an all out civil war? no way.

The Lannister's finances arc though is very interesting.

A free spot as the "King of the Vale" for once.
 

Booties

Banned
He's just a bitter guy. Also "chaos ladder". The Lannisters running out of gold is also directly caused by Littlefinger's plan to pit the Lannisters and the Starks against one another. The war killed off all the Stark men and also drained the Lannister's wealth. Tywin said it has been 3 years since they made any money. That's about how long the show has been going on for if Joff ruled for 1.5-2 years.

Everything's coming up Littlefinger, and I love it.
 
I re watched the latest episode last night and I realized that I'm not impressed with the lack of Varys this season.

And why are people saying that Aidan Gillen is a bad actor? I think he's pretty good.
 
I can get why everyone thinks Lysa and Robin will go out the moon door. Obviously Baelish has that idea in the back of his head, waiting for a logistically sound time and method to do it. But Lysa and Robin both have that special kind of irrational crazy that I could easily see either of them having a snap reaction to something Baelish says or does and killing him.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

1- The bad acting. Talking in a shifty voice and looking toward the horizon while making machiavellian polemics is just straight up cartoon villain.
2- The reveal itself was so clumsy. "my love let me reveal our secrets to the audience out loud while we embrace!"

But let's get to the core issue. As a plot element it doesn't make sense at all. It reeks of tying up loose ends post-fact with the benefit of hindsight.

What's the motive for littlefinger to top off Jon Aryn? There is no benefit to be had.
Assume you're looking for an opportunity to exploit some turmoil to better your situation and you hear that the hand of the king is digging up on rumours about the king's children.
If you want to instigate a succession crisis you don't kill the person digging, you kill the king quickly before the scandal becomes public and let it all brew.
Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was. Had Cersei not arranged for his accident, the succession crisis wouldn't have happened at all. At best the Lannisters could've gotten disgraced if the scandal blew up, but an all out civil war? no way.

The Lannister's finances arc though is very interesting.
Littlefinger also wanted revenge on Ned Stark and to claim Catelyn, half of which he achieved, and with Sansa in tow he is set to, I think in his mind, go one better for the second half. He is a schemer but his ends are not obvious, he is more complex than just a power hungry mustache twirler, although he is definitely that as well.
The Lannisters may have put him up to having Jon Aryn murdered anyway, we don't really know why he did it yet.
 
I think she's less "playing the game" and more "accepting her place/reassuring people of what they think of her" so she can keep her skin.
Her thinking in a tough situation, she came out of it lying and manipulating someone pretty well. If someone like Littlefinger did the same thing (think context of course), everyone would be fapping to his ability to trick people. But it's one of the least liked favorites on the series, so why give credit eh?

To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

1- The bad acting. Talking in a shifty voice and looking toward the horizon while making machiavellian polemics is just straight up cartoon villain.
2- The reveal itself was so clumsy. "my love let me reveal our secrets to the audience out loud while we embrace!"

But let's get to the core issue. As a plot element it doesn't make sense at all. It reeks of tying up loose ends post-fact with the benefit of hindsight.

What's the motive for littlefinger to top off Jon Aryn? There is no benefit to be had.
Assume you're looking for an opportunity to exploit some turmoil to better your situation and you hear that the hand of the king is digging up on rumours about the king's children.
If you want to instigate a succession crisis you don't kill the person digging, you kill the king quickly before the scandal becomes public and let it all brew.
Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was. Had Cersei not arranged for his accident, the succession crisis wouldn't have happened at all. At best the Lannisters could've gotten disgraced if the scandal blew up, but an all out civil war? no way.

The Lannister's finances arc though is very interesting.
This has been explained quite a bit and makes perfect sense. You don't seem to get it if you think it doesn't make sense. Getting the two biggest houses to go against each other and crush them, which he did for one of them. Put the ones he helped to get to power make him both eligible to become a King and put a death timestamp on them at the same time with the debt he's put them under.

It's not as if he couldn't kill Robert if he didn't die early on when it was necessary. Robert getting killed or Cersei making it happen is fine since we don't need Littlefinger to do every single act.

I re watched the latest episode last night and I realized that I'm not impressed with the lack of Varys this season.

And why are people saying that Aidan Gillen is a bad actor? I think he's pretty good.
He's great. I wouldn't want anyone else over him.
 
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