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[And_Boy]

To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was.

Remember how the whole show started, why and for what Robert went to Winterfell. Killing Robert is not enough. It's only one man.

On the other hand,

A free spot as the "King of the Vale" for once.

The Lannisters running out of gold is also directly caused by Littlefinger's plan to pit the Lannisters and the Starks against one another. The war killed off all the Stark men and also drained the Lannister's wealth.

Littlefinger started this game of thrones.

Everything's coming up Littlefinger, and I love it.

Me to, always loved such masterminds e.g. Moriarty.

 

[SoraanTribal]

I had completely forgotten who Jon Arryn was until I looked him up after the episode. There's so many characters to keep track of!

 

[AuthenticM]

Littlefinger has become one of my favorite characters. I hope he gets more screentime.

 

[Booties]

I can get why everyone thinks Lysa and Robin will go out the moon door. Obviously Baelish has that idea in the back of his head, waiting for a logistically sound time and method to do it. But Lysa and Robin both have that special kind of irrational crazy that I could easily see either of them having a snap reaction to something Baelish says or does and killing him.

The messed up thing is that Lysa really believed that Tyrion should have been sent through the moon door. She knew that the Lannisters didn't kill her husband. Was that also part of Littlefinger's plan? Killing Tyrion?

 

[Curufinwe]

Tyrion was on trial for attempting to kill Bran, but Lysa obviously loathes him in general.

 

[Booties]

Tyrion was on trial for attempting to kill Bran, but Lysa obviously loathes him in general.

Oh yeah I can't really remember why that happened. So they thought Tyrion pushed him out the balcony or had the assassin sent to his bed? I need a refresher.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Oh yeah I can't really remember why that happened. So they thought Tyrion pushed him out the balcony or had the assassin sent to his bed? I need a refresher.

At the time they thought Bran's fall was an accident, and afterwards Littlefinger told them that the knife used by the attempted assassin was lost in a bet to Tyrion.

 

[Vice]

To be honest a have a lot of problems with the Jon Aryn reveal, actually the whole "Littlefinger the supervillain" arc.

1- The bad acting. Talking in a shifty voice and looking toward the horizon while making machiavellian polemics is just straight up cartoon villain.
2- The reveal itself was so clumsy. "my love let me reveal our secrets to the audience out loud while we embrace!"

But let's get to the core issue. As a plot element it doesn't make sense at all. It reeks of tying up loose ends post-fact with the benefit of hindsight.

What's the motive for littlefinger to top off Jon Aryn? There is no benefit to be had.
Assume you're looking for an opportunity to exploit some turmoil to better your situation and you hear that the hand of the king is digging up on rumours about the king's children.
If you want to instigate a succession crisis you don't kill the person digging, you kill the king quickly before the scandal becomes public and let it all brew.
Here's the key point. Jon Aryn's death wasn't important, King Robert's was. Had Cersei not arranged for his accident, the succession crisis wouldn't have happened at all. At best the Lannisters could've gotten disgraced if the scandal blew up, but an all out civil war? no way.

The Lannister's finances arc though is very interesting.

Littlefinger get's the Vale. It's one of the best areas in Westeros to rule as it has no big flaws.

Killing Arryn prevents a succession crisis. Even at the start of the series the crown was in amazing debt as Ned discovered. Peter was likely playing the long game and would have waited to bankrupt the crown and then swoop in using the connections he had built as master of coin. It also gets the hand out of the way so that he can continue to accrue debt.

The war started due to the unpredictability of Joffrey, if not for that he'd still be quietly building up debt for the crown while assuring the ruler he was taking care of it.

 

[Booties]

At the time they thought Bran's fall was an accident, and afterwards Littlefinger told them that the knife used by the attempted assassin was lost in a bet to Tyrion.

So it was littlefinger. GOD DAMNIT

 

[POWERSPHERE]

She seems to find a God-complex though, understandable but it's making her less likable in my eyes. I will rule like a queen. When she said that, I just imagined her with fake glasses while holding a Starbucks for some reason.. yes I'm generalizing to ridiculous levels.

She needs to fail at something to be brought down a level or two. Still like her character mind you, but that's what I'm feeling at the moment. #neoblogs

Her and that advisor guy are shit house actors. I can only see actors and not the characters, it's annoying.

 

[Violet_0]

why is everyone in Westeros a sword fighter anyway. They'd have a much easier time if they just adopted to long pointy sticks

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Is the beheading of Ned Stark, partially the reason why the Lannister's are going broke. Joffrey basically put them at war.

 

[Azih]

Is the beheading of Ned Stark, partially the reason why the Lannister's are going broke. Joffrey basically put them at war.

Yeah I think so. There was always going to be a struggle between Joffery and Robert's brothers but The North would have accepted Ned Stark exile to the Wall and it would have been far less expensive. I don't think Littlefinger would have had nearly enough sway to bankrupt the Lannisters as he ended up having because of the chaos of the War of the Five Kings.

 

[Lamel]

And once the kid is sent flying through the hole he will be laughing and enjoying the flight like Joker from Batman movies.

Lmao. I'll bet $10 on this as well.

 

[Azih]

What's really interesting to me is that LittleFinger has been handily winning the shadow war with Varys. Varys trying to stabilize the realm while Littlefinger tries to throw it into chaos. Varys is, I think, smarter than LittleFinger but they're in the same league and it's like he wasn't prepared to deal with someone who just wants to make everything burn so he could be King of the Ashes (great great line).

 

[Nameless]

Is the beheading of Ned Stark, partially the reason why the Lannister's are going broke. Joffrey basically put them at war.

Ned's execution pushed the Lannister-Stark conflict passed the point of no return, but Ned and Tyrion being taken captive respectively is what originally set the two sides against each other.

 

[7aged]

Littlefinger get's the Vale. It's one of the best areas in Westeros to rule as it has no big flaws.

Killing Arryn prevents a succession crisis. Even at the start of the series the crown was in amazing debt as Ned discovered. Peter was likely playing the long game and would have waited to bankrupt the crown and then swoop in using the connections he had built as master of coin. It also gets the hand out of the way so that he can continue to accrue debt.

The war started due to the unpredictability of Joffrey, if not for that he'd still be quietly building up debt for the crown while assuring the ruler he was taking care of it.

I can accept the idea that his motivation was just simply to get the vale, rather than the whole "grand masterplan". I don't think he had ambitions to bankrupt the crown, but merely that he was wheeling and dealing and pocketing the bakhsheesh.If the gravy train goes sour he consolidates his position at the vale.

Remember how the whole show started, why and for what Robert went to Winterfell. Killing Robert is not enough. It's only one man.

On the other hand,





Littlefinger started this game of thrones.



Me to, always loved such masterminds e.g. Moriarty.

Yes, I do remember. Other than the incident with Bran (which Littlefinger had nothing to do with) it was of no consequence to the main story. The action began when Robert died and mad king Joffrey came to the throne.

Littlefinger also wanted revenge on Ned Stark and to claim Catelyn, half of which he achieved, and with Sansa in tow he is set to, I think in his mind, go one better for the second half. He is a schemer but his ends are not obvious, he is more complex than just a power hungry mustache twirler, although he is definitely that as well.
The Lannisters may have put him up to having Jon Aryn murdered anyway, we don't really know why he did it yet.

And how does killing Jon Aryn harm the Starks? Ned's troubles only began when psycho Joffrey came to the scene, something again littlefinger had nothing to do with.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Is the beheading of Ned Stark, partially the reason why the Lannister's are going broke. Joffrey basically put them at war.

Didn't they run out of gold before all of that?

Besides, I assumed Littlefinger's grand plan - or at least the financial aspect of it - was to plunge King's Landing into debt. Anyone who takes over then inherits that debt and therefore loses support of the Iron Bank of Braavos (and they in turn support anyone who is against the debtor).

If Littlefinger positioned himself correctly then he could get their financial support, but at the moment it looks like Stannis will benefit from that.

 

[agrajag]

So far Littlefinger's MO seems to just disseminate chaos whenever possible. Not sure how any of his actions directly benefit him.

 

[Nameless]

So far Littlefinger's MO seems to just disseminate chaos whenever possible. Not sure how any of his actions directly benefit him.

Toppling the dominant houses standing between him and ultimate power?

 

[RustyNails]

I hope MOTHER OF DRAGONS hangs Baelish's head on a pike after she's done. Stannis is #onetrueking but I doubt he can conquer Westeros. Not with Melisandre.

 

[agrajag]

Toppling the dominant houses standing between him and ultimate power?

As others have pointed out, the only thing Littlefinger has done that set any of those wheels in motion is killing Jon Arryn and even then nothing would have come of it if it wasn't for Joffrey's insanity.

 

[Heshinsi]

You guys have to remember that Dany is the daughter of the mad king and is just as nuts as him and her brother. Remember how she tried to kill herself in a giant bonfire because the guy who raped her a lot until she learned to like it by staring at her dragon eggs while he did it died? Remember that when she didn't die she just took a bunch of people into the desert because, well, she thought it was a good idea? Remember how she tried to keep Khal Rapeo alive with voodoo from a lady that hated him because she figured that since she was voodoo lady's savior, everything was all even? Remember when she had her brother killed because he was very pushy about taking back Westeros from the people who killed her entire family?

She ain't gonna be doing anything that makes any sense anytime soon, right now they call her pizza and she totally believes it and so she's got to pizza hard. And of course she's already fucked that up, so they probably all hate her now for abandoning them.

Your memory of the first season is a bit whack.

Dany ended up loving Khal Drogo, and I don't if you can call their first nights together rape. Did you miss the part where she asks her hand maiden how she could learn to please the Khal, and was instead taught how she could be his equal?

She didn't have her brother killed, her brother got his own stupid ass killed by pulling a weapon in the tent and then pointing it at the Khal's unborn kid. That shit don't fly with the Dothraki, and Jorah even tells him not to pull out his sword. Dude was an abusive little shit and deserved what he got.

She also didn't keep Khal Drogo alive with voodoo either. The witch told her she was going to heal her husbands wound, and clearly turned a simple scratch into a medical emergency. The witch then tells Dany that she can save him and then tricks her into sacrificing her baby's life for her husband's. Except Drogo is nothing but a vegetable and Dany mercy kills him.

She took her people into the desert cause they had no where else to go. Do you even pay attention to what's happening on the TV when you watch or what? Jorah pretty much says that they can't go to where all the other Dothraki are cause the other Khals would kill them, so they need to go somewhere else.

Rant over, now to discuss the new episode.

This episode was a bit of let down for me, and I think what tipped it to that degree was the Bran and Jon near miss at the end. We already had a near miss last season, and for it to happen yet again, was a let down. Bran is back to being in the same spot he was a few episodes back, except now we know he can make Hodor snap people's necks like twigs. Thought they could have done more with that storyline.

Arya and the Hound were awesome as always. Could spend an entire season just watching these two.

First time watching a Dany scene where I went, "really that's it? That's all we get?" It seems like everything she did leasing up to Mereen is being unwoven because of the power vacuum (except in Astapor where the butcher dude straight up deposed of her council) she left behind.

No Stannis, thank god. I can't stand his sulky, loserish demeanour. That being said, I'm kinda interested about this Iron Bank. They sound like the IMF of this world, and no one is safe from them. Not even kings.

Littlefinger creeps me the hell out. Still don't know what this guy is truly up to.

 

[Ferrio]

As others have pointed out, the only thing Littlefinger has done that set any of those wheels in motion is killing Jon Arryn and even then nothing would have come of it if it wasn't for Joffrey's insanity.

He tried something, it worked. If that hadn't worked he would of tried something else.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

As others have pointed out, the only thing Littlefinger has done that set any of those wheels in motion is killing Jon Arryn and even then nothing would have come of it if it wasn't for Joffrey's insanity.

Littlefinger was also in charge of King's Landing's (and by extension the Lannisters) finances until he gave up the responsibility to Ned. Stannis will now (likely) get the backing of the Iron Bank because the Lannisters can no longer pay their debts.

 

[Heshinsi]

He tried something, it worked. If that hadn't worked he would of tried something else.

Also, him putting the idea into stupid Cat's head that Tyrion might have had something to do with Bran's fall, ends up making her taking Tyrion hostage and starting all this shit.

 

[televator]

So far Littlefinger's MO seems to just disseminate chaos whenever possible. Not sure how any of his actions directly benefit him.

House Stark is effectively gone. House Lanister faces finacial ruin. He's got the Tyrells secretly working with him and the Vale is his.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

House Stark is effectively gone. House Lanister faces finacial ruin. He's got the Tyrells secretly working with him and the Vale is his.

There are quite a few things out of his control (say... Daenarys in Essos, the Night's Watch and their adventures battling the wildlings/white walkers) so we'll see how he ends up.

 

[Vice]

I can accept the idea that his motivation was just simply to get the vale, rather than the whole "grand masterplan". I don't think he had ambitions to bankrupt the crown, but merely that he was wheeling and dealing and pocketing the bakhsheesh.If the gravy train goes sour he consolidates his position at the vale.

It has been stated that the Iron Bank of Bravoos, and money in general, can make or break a kingdom. Since early seasons money has been a big issue. The master of coin would have to know not paying the bank would result in ruin for the current king amd families.

Yes, I do remember. Other than the incident with Bran (which Littlefinger had nothing to do with) it was of no consequence to the main story. The action began when Robert died and mad king Joffrey came to the throne.

Ned was recruited as hand because Arryn died. Littlefinger kicked off the majority of the shows Westeros storylines becausr of that.

 

[Nameless]

As others have pointed out, the only thing Littlefinger has done that set any of those wheels in motion is killing Jon Arryn and even then nothing would have come of it if it wasn't for Joffrey's insanity.

-Killing Jon Arryn
-Having Lysa send the letter implicating the Lannisters in Arryn's death and conspiring against the King
-Sending the assassin after Bran(it wasn't Cersei, Jaime, or Tyrion. Only leaves Baelish) then implicating Tyrion.
-Guiding Ned towards the truth about Cersei, Jaime, and King Robert's bastatds
-Fooling Ned into committing treason by pretending he had rallied the City Watch behind him.

Joffrey played a role, but the Lannisters and Starks were already at war before he had Ned killed. There's no conflict for Joffrey to make worse without Littlefinger's schemes.

 

[And_Boy]

EDIT: As posted above

 

[Ovid]

-Killing Jon Arryn
-Having Lysa send the letter implicating the Lannisters in Arryn's death and conspiring against the King
-Sending the assassin after Bran(it wasn't Cersei, Jaime, or Tyrion. Only leaves Baelish) then implicating Tyrion.
-Guiding Ned towards the truth about Cersei, Jaime, and King Robert's bastatds
-Fooling Ned into committing treason by pretending he had rallied the City Watch behind him.

Joffrey played a role, but the Lannisters and Starks were already at war before he had Ned killed. There's no conflict for Joffrey to make worse without Littlefinger's schemes.

That pissed me off so much. He pulled a knife on Ned too.

 

[Pepiope]

I'm wondering, why was Jon Aryn the hand to begin with? Did Ned not want it?

 

[Nameless]

That pissed me off so much. He pulled a knife on Ned too.

Ned was my guy 100% but the quote Littlefinger dropped on him combined with that shit eating grin was seven gods-tier.

 

[El Daniel]

I'm wondering, why was Jon Aryn the hand to begin with? Did Ned not want it?

Jon Arryn fostered both Robert and Ned.

He was a smart guy.

 

[Speevy]

I'm wondering, why was Jon Aryn the hand to begin with? Did Ned not want it?

Jon Arryn is lord of the Vale.

Remember that every position of importance in Westeros is based in part on the person's influence.

You'll garner more support from the people and their lords if you have someone in King's Landing from that region.

 

[The Horror the horror]

There are quite a few things out of his control (say... Daenarys in Essos, the Night's Watch and their adventures battling the wildlings/white walkers) so we'll see how he ends up.

Don't forget Dorne.

We've seen very little of Littlefinger's influence and impression there.

 

[robotzombie]

why are people working so hard to try to convince everyone that littlefinger wasn't very influential in the events that have gone down?

 

[Azih]

Joffrey played a role, but the Lannisters and Starks were already at war before he had Ned killed. There's no conflict for Joffrey to make worse without Littlefinger's schemes.

Brokering a deal to get Ned exiled to the Wall was Varys countering Littlefinger. Thanks for screwing that up Joffery!

Baelor

 

[poppabk]

And how does killing Jon Aryn harm the Starks? Ned's troubles only began when psycho Joffrey came to the scene, something again littlefinger had nothing to do with.

It brought Ned to kings landing and under littlefingers sphere of influence. I forget how Ned was set on his path to finding true heirs to the throne but it was littlefinger who pushed him to rebel against the king before betraying him.

 

[Azih]

I don't think Littlefinger is a grand puppetmaster though.I do think that he is the ultimate opportunist and goes the extra step to create chaos that he is well positioned to profit from.

Littlefinger would find some way to implicate the Lannisters for Jon Arryn's death. Jamie pushing Bran out the window just made things easier for him. If Ned hadn't been incredibly naive or Varys had managed to save Ned (preventing the Starks from rebelling) then he would still have been the master of coin, stealthily bankrupting the crown and waiting for another chance to climb the ladder that is chaos.

 

[Heshinsi]

It brought Ned to kings landing and under littlefingers sphere of influence. I forget how Ned was set on his path to finding true heirs to the throne but it was littlefinger who pushed him to rebel against the king before betraying him.

My memory is a bit foggy but doesn't he tell him there's some dude that Jon Aryn had seen right before he died, and that Ned should probably go and see him too? Or was that Varys?

 

[Speevy]

My memory is a bit foggy but doesn't he tell him there's some dude that Jon Aryn had seen right before he died, and that Ned should probably go and see him too? Or was that Varys?

The blacksmith's apprentice, who is Gendry. Gendry has hair of black, like all of Robert's sons.

The Lannisters are blonde, like Joffrey.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

As others have pointed out, the only thing Littlefinger has done that set any of those wheels in motion is killing Jon Arryn and even then nothing would have come of it if it wasn't for Joffrey's insanity.

It isn't as if his plan ends there. Something unexpected that went in his favor happened during his plays. At the end of the day, it's like a chess match. You move the pieces in your favor so others take each other out. If things go according to plan, keep to the strategy. If things turn out even better in the case of Joffrey, go to your whorehouse and fuck them for extra celebrations. If things are going wrong on side of the field, change 2-3 chess pieces around to change the game.

We haven't seen all his plans but so far, they have went pretty well because they were well executed and thought out. He's a cunning bastard.

 

[Speevy]

The Lannisters are fiercely protective of their claims, and view the Starks as a threat.

Regardless of what set the events of the show in motion, Jaime, Cersei, and Tywin would take advantage of it. They're opportunistic folks.

Joffrey is both cruel and opportunistic, though he lacks the political and military savvy of his contemporaries.

 

[Heshinsi]

The blacksmith's apprentice, who is Gendry. Gendry has hair of black, like all of Robert's sons.

The Lannisters are blonde, like Joffrey.

No I meant, was it Littlefinger that tells Ned to go see the blacksmith or was it Varys who tells him that?

 

[televator]

Is there some sort of subliminal telegraphing going on in the show or am I jusr sick and twisted in thinking that the breast fed prince will get pushed out the sky hole thingy?

 

[Nameless]

Brokering a deal to get Ned exiled to the Wall was Varys countering Littlefinger. Thanks for screwing that up Joffery!

Baelor

Yeah that was a big deal. Eddard Stark was renowned throughout Westeros for his honor. Littlefinger clearly didn't anticipate he'd ever cover up the truth, much less admit to crimes he didn't commit. He expected him to fall on his sword, even if it started it a war. By extension, it's reasonable to deduce that Baelish was also banking on the honorable Ned Stark publicizing the Lannister's dirty secret as he helped him uncover it. Even if by some miracle the Starks and Lannisters ended their feud, the legitimacy of Joffrey's reign had been brought into question, which meant war was coming regardless.

No I meant, was it Littlefinger that tells Ned to go see the blacksmith or was it Varys who tells him that?

It was Baelish. He introduced Ned to both Gendry and the bastard baby at his brothel.

 

[PFD]

Anyone listen to Got podcasts? There's a few good ones out there. Anyone have a favorite?

A Cast of Kings is my favorite. It was funded by a Kickstarter. It's hosted by two people, a book reader and a non-reader. They never spoil anything from the books, and they're pretty fun to listen to.

 

[Heshinsi]

Yeah that was a big deal. Eddard Stark was renowned throughout Westeros for his honor. Littlefinger clearly didn't anticipate he'd ever cover up the truth, much less admit to crimes he didn't commit. He expected him to fall on his sword, even if it started it a war. By extension, it's reasonable to deduce that Baelish was also banking on the honorable Ned Stark publicizing the Lannister's dirty secret as he helped him uncover it. Even if by some miracle the Starks and Lannisters ended their feud, the legitimacy of Joffrey's reign had been brought into question, which meant war was coming regardless.



It was Baelish. He introduced Ned to both Gendry and the bastard baby at his brothel.

Lord Baelish seems like he's on a whole different level of scheming compared to everyone else. Loved that episode in season 3 where Varys says the following two quotes about Littlefinger (paraphrasing a bit):

Littlefinger is one of the most dangerous men in Westeros. He was born with no lands, no money and no army. Now he has the first two, how long before he has an army? If Robb Stark falls, Sansa is the key to the North

He would see this country burn if he could be king of the ashes

I think I'm more scared of Lord Baelish than I am the White Walkers lol