Messypandas
Member
Wasn't Jon Snow born in Kings landing though? Or wherever Robert and Ned were at the time? Shouldn't he be a Waters in that case, or can you chose lol.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Bravo and well said.
When people say Dany has done bad things, what are these bad things she's done? Would having people who've harmed you and your followers, who have enslaved, tortured, and killed thousands, etc, be considered a bad thing if they are given their just desserts in the world that Game of Thrones exists in? People need stop acting like they'd behave like Jesus if they lived in this world. The idea to turn the left cheek to your aggressor doesn't exist in this world, and people need to stop projecting modern humanist ideas about morality and justice on to this world. You harm people, and then those you've harmed get their revenge on you, end of story. Also, I'm guessing Arya Stark has done bad things by killing people who have wronged her family right? But nope, no one ever says she's done bad because reasons. It's the same isn't it? They both kill people who have wronged them or others. So why is it "high five" when one does it, and a head shake and disapproval when the other does the same?
Dany fucks up, that's plain as day to see. However, not once have I seen a scene where she intentionally seeks to harm someone who hasn't either brought harm to her directly, or hasn't been a murderous little shit themselves.
Joe Prodigy
Member
Very cool! I took the Ryu/Oberyn for an avatar.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Yeah. It's very hard to believe they'd kill him off screen. They never do that. Especially with major characters. So something is probably going to come of it. Maybe he'll be discovered by someone. Though he really is in bad need of repair.
Who knows what will come of The Hound? Well, except those dirty book readers. I'm almost tempted to ask one, but I won't. I'll wait my 9 months like a good little boy.
*sigh* 9 months.
Rewatch the entire series! With one episode a week you'll be done just in time for season 5.
I tried to make these two more block-like, but it seems Oberyn's worked better than the mountain.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
*pfft* One episode a week? I can't do that shit. It's hard to even get through a series as it's airing. I'd be done with the entire series in 2 days.
And then have 9 months left anyway. (Is 9 months the correct date though? Or are we just speculating that it'd come back at the same time next year?)
Messypandas
Member
I'm still sad at how Arya left Hound like that. I understand people saying she scretly hated him; which is true, from at least season 1 he was on "the list" for running down the butchers boy, for not intervening with her fathers beheading.
Along the way the Hound kidnaps her from them guys without banners, and he tells her he's not taking her back to Kings Landing like she fretted; hes taking her to her family, for a bounty of course. Arya complains that she wants her own horse, so he gives her one. Arya consistenly gets both of them into fights over honour, which the Hound disposes of. Arya mentions the horrible scarring story to get to the Hound, which the Hound conversely "opens up about" later on when she wants to seal his wound. How his brother mutilated him, and his father lied and said his bed caught on fire. Hound says he knows what its like to "have no-one" and lets Arya clean his wound.
Its made clear that the Hound helping Arya made him an enemy of the crown, and the bounty on his head wasn't even worth the price of returning her. In the end it was clear he just wanted to help her, because he had ample opportunity to sell her to soldiers who would do horrible things to her or just dispose of her and move on with his life. But Arya knew she was dead on her own and the Hound just probably liked having her around. So things aren't really as binary as we thought. Arya perhaps grew to like the hound, realised that most of the time he acted in line with his duty no matter how awful that was. And in the end, after he fought trying to help protect her one last time she doesn't even talk to him? Just takes his coin purse and bails? She didn't have to kill him but at least say something to the poor fucker. Completey shit on everything that had happened between them up to that point imo.
after watching the comicbook19 review of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObc3-0BJZQ#t=1438 i agree, it just didn't make sense.
Along the way the Hound kidnaps her from them guys without banners, and he tells her he's not taking her back to Kings Landing like she fretted; hes taking her to her family, for a bounty of course. Arya complains that she wants her own horse, so he gives her one. Arya consistenly gets both of them into fights over honour, which the Hound disposes of. Arya mentions the horrible scarring story to get to the Hound, which the Hound conversely "opens up about" later on when she wants to seal his wound. How his brother mutilated him, and his father lied and said his bed caught on fire. Hound says he knows what its like to "have no-one" and lets Arya clean his wound.
Its made clear that the Hound helping Arya made him an enemy of the crown, and the bounty on his head wasn't even worth the price of returning her. In the end it was clear he just wanted to help her, because he had ample opportunity to sell her to soldiers who would do horrible things to her or just dispose of her and move on with his life. But Arya knew she was dead on her own and the Hound just probably liked having her around. So things aren't really as binary as we thought. Arya perhaps grew to like the hound, realised that most of the time he acted in line with his duty no matter how awful that was. And in the end, after he fought trying to help protect her one last time she doesn't even talk to him? Just takes his coin purse and bails? She didn't have to kill him but at least say something to the poor fucker. Completey shit on everything that had happened between them up to that point imo.
after watching the comicbook19 review of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sObc3-0BJZQ#t=1438 i agree, it just didn't make sense.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Couldn't agree more. Ayra is the only character who I've consistently loved. I did not expect her character to be the worst part of the finale.
Messypandas
Member
Those thoughts are my own, I just skimmed through the video to that scene to see her thoughts and her "it didn't make sense" vibed with my own. I haven't watched the whole review, but i believe she doesn't divulge future book spoilers, which is why she also disables the comments. I'll take that link down if i'm wrong though.
What aspect didn't make sense? She's using the lessons he taught her. They pointed out several times during the season that she hasn't forgiven him for killing her friend.
Le book spoilers in that vid (about stuff that already happened) for those that care about that sort of thing. You know, I think I have to read through the books this year. I'm noticing a trend that a lot of things that don't make sense are kind of explained in the books or there are different motivations for certain actions.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
It's funny how people are missing that. She got better at being more helpful while they were on their roadtrip. Killing men, stealing money, being colder emotionally in killing, losing her shit with laughter for her aunt; things required to win and stay alive in this game of thrones. Arya being silent and just watching him is soooooooo good. That's how she needs to be Actually following through with the Hounds request and assisting his death may have got him off her list, but he still deserves to suffer for his past proclivities. Why should she give him a graceful death? let he guy feel the pain and anguish that so many others have had to feel.
RustyNails
Member
Messypandas I completely agree with your summary of Arya and Hound. Arya's actions made it look like we missed an episode or two between them. You owe him your stupid life, Arya. She would have starved, been raped, taken as a slave or died without the Hound after she escaped Beric's gang. Or all of the above.
I might be wrong here, but...
Isn't going AWOL during Blackwater what made him an enemy of the crown? I mean, he was already on thin ice before that happened.
Also, don't underestimate the extent to which The Hound was a terrible person. For as much as he protected her, his ultimate goal was to take her to whoever would give him the biggest reward, which at that point had been family. Who knows what his plan would have been after learning that Lysa had died.
I think Arya abandoning The Hound is a result of the greatest lesson The Hound ever taught her: the weak perish. That truth is what caused The Hound to beat and steal from a man who offered them shelter and even a permanent home. I think Arya abandoning The Hound when she did (after taking his gold, of course) was a direct reflection of that earlier scene.
The truth is Arya didn't owe The Hound anything. He had his own motives for keeping her alive. Feeling indebted to him is the exact type of unnecessary goodness that has gotten more than half the Stark family cut down at this point. Arya is supposed to be the Stark who's being the most subjected to the harsh realities of the world and the game they're all playing. So it makes perfect sense to me that she'd leave The Hound like she did.
Vincent Alexander
Member
At minimum, she owed him a bit more than she gave him. Her silent stare was flat, inspiring no emotion from me, except making me think "Is this moment supposed to be 'badass' or something?"
He wasn't an enemy of the crown until he killed Lannister men. Until that point, he was simply AWOL. Probably assumed dead. And I can come up with many, many reasons as to why Ayra did what she did. Unfortunately, none of these reasonings help make the scene satisfying for me, because in the end her final moments with him fell so flat.
No single scene has made me want to read the books more. And I refuse to just jump into book 3. But I'll be patient and wait for season 5 for my answers. I'm afraid we'll have the Hound's demise and/or survival ruined for us with casting announcements or the early trailers of season 5.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
I wanted Arya to run to Nymeria again one day, like at the parts when she was still very agro against the Hound, I thought they would run into the direwolf in the forest and things would unfold etc...... but now she's on the ship to Braavos I think that pipeline dream of mine is no more ;__;
Man, the direwolves are so fun <3
Man, the direwolves are so fun <3
Steelyuhas
Member
I always looked at Arya and the Hound's relationship as being a mutually beneficial partnership as opposed to two people becoming "besties." He had a fat payday coming his way if he got her to a family member, and she had a bodyguard and her best chance of seeing her loved ones again. They bonded over their fucked up experiences, but Arya always made it clear she hated the Hound. Which is unfair for him, sure, because I think he did gain some affection for her (see: the conversation with Brienne). However, I don't think that means Arya owes him anything.
Joe Prodigy
Member
Oh wow. I like that one way more than mine. May I use it?I tried to make these two more block-like, but it seems Oberyn's worked better than the mountain.
Yeah I don't get what the big deal is. Its not as if people haven't tolerated people that they harbor hatred for only to turn around and unveil that hatred at a later time. Arya hated the hound. She always did, but she tolerated him. Heck when he asked for a drink just before his death, Arya was about to give him some water... before he said "Fuck water..." and then he made the grave error of reminding Arya of how he's the worst shit in Westeros. After realizing "Oh right, this guy deserves no mercy" she left his ass to be picked apart by the vultures.
This is where he really fucked up. To me, Arya seemed to be conflicted over whether or not she should kill him in that moment because for as much as she hated him, she probably had some respect for the guy. Had he not decided to remind her of what an asshole he is, she might have shown him mercy.
freakzilla149
Banned
I've not been on Gaf for long so I'm not sure of the etiquette but is it alright if I claim this as my avatar?
The castle reflects the region and its people. They are hardy, plain, and tough. Stark would have made the best King.
I don't think she's there yet, but I did comment on it earlier in the season.
Rorschach said:
I don't get all the Daenerys love! Is it just because she's purty?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
i dont quite get the camps, myself. i enjoy all the characters and the arcs.
except for sam. i always switch out of focus whenever he's on screen and check tumblr or internet or something else. he's so boring.
except for sam. i always switch out of focus whenever he's on screen and check tumblr or internet or something else. he's so boring.
Dany and Stannis are the most boring characters on the show. Stannis has a better supporting cast though. Dany, however, has a boring crew and is in a boring region doing boring things. I don't know how these people managed to make a story involving dragons and slavery so damn dull, but this shit has been Must Sleep TV for the better part of the last two seasons.
I agree.
And so far the show has done extremely little to connect Dany's actions across the ocean to the main plot, so whenever we spend time from her, not only are we subjected to the boredom of whatever the fuck she's doing, we're actually taken away from the main, more interesting storylines.
The result is Dany's story plays out like a long, boring commercial break.
I understand that's how the book has it set, but surely they must have known that having such a major story play out separate from literally everything else in the show would wear thin after a while? Nobody gives a fuck about the slave cities, and the sad thing is seems like it's going to be seasons more before they get her to Westeros.
Daeny is beautiful and the mother of dragons!
It would help if it felt like there was any real resistance to her campaign. Ever since she got the Unsullied, it's been "Dany rolls into a city and gets what she wants." Even Daario, who is prone to acting on his own and thus should be something of a liability, seems to be nothing but good for her. The rest of her crew are yes men who do whatever she says with little in the way of their own stories.
We're starting to see the house of cards she built begin to crumble (she can conquer cities but can't hold them, she's kind of a shit politician, her dragons don't listen to her and one is missing), but I still feel like there needs to be a real opposing force and some intrigue involved to get me interested in her storyline again. Otherwise, it's just a commercial break like you said.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I think you nailed it. I watched season 1 of GoT after season 4 ended for the second time, and Viserys, Drogo and Lord Friendzone made it very interesting. She had one of the best storylines, especially since at KL, everyone wanted her dead which made it feel like it was all tied together. After season 1, the two strongest characters around her story died, and now the most interesting in her cast even left her. She needs a big change.
Or go to King's Landing, I wouldn't mind that either for next season.
Though it looks like she will stay there for season 5 and maybe 6/7 at this rate..EDIT: Oberyn Martell is Lisbon's love interest in the Mentalist in season 6. Ok, it's time to go finish season 6.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Hodor IRL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CJWo5TDHLE
It's not easy deciding what material to include in the show, how much of it, and how fast to cover it. I think they do a fair job overall, but there are some missteps. I wouldn't have spent a full episode on the fight at the wall, for instance.
Yeah, they could've really stretched out her liberation of the cities a bit more. It plays out like a daydream: show up to city with your small army, proclaim that you'll free all the slaves, let the slaves join you, repeat. It happened way too easily/quickly. They're running through her material quickly and not giving us a chance to know her. Yeah, they're showing cracks in her growing empire, but they aren't doing enough to show the conflict between her and her inner circle.
It's not easy deciding what material to include in the show, how much of it, and how fast to cover it. I think they do a fair job overall, but there are some missteps. I wouldn't have spent a full episode on the fight at the wall, for instance.
a Master Ninja
Member
When he counts to twenty...
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I totally disagree. Realizing the danger from the North as well as caring for characters in North multiplied considerably during that episode, and I know several others share this sentiment.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Ditto. I used to not even give much of a crap about those characters until that episode.
Except for Boobs McGee who is now dead.
Oh, and Jon Snow I guess. But he knows nothing.
They did skip a lot of the fighting in those battles. They would be all like "rawr!" then cut to them having won. Haven't seen much of the Dragons aside from a couple of scenes of them outside of battle. Black dragon got bored and went off to do his own thing.
Speaking of dragons... the only interesting thing to come out of that season will be how the dragons that were at her side will feel after being locked up in a dark dungeon. Maybe they'll rebel too. Hope the three team up to kill her.
Speaking of dragons... the only interesting thing to come out of that season will be how the dragons that were at her side will feel after being locked up in a dark dungeon. Maybe they'll rebel too. Hope the three team up to kill her.
Psychoward
Banned
The CGI dragons did a better job of displaying emotion than Dany did all season.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Did I really just read this from a dude with a Stannis avatar... that's like seeing someone with a Naruto avatar talking shit about Ninja Turtles being too loud to be real Ninjas.
I've said it once and I'll say it again, the Dany hate has become a meme at this point. On some Thanks Obama shit.
She could have killed Hitler with a butter-knife and people would come in here like "Why didn't she do this sooner?! Think of all the lives she could have saved. Ugh!"
sti4thewin
Member
Such a good episode tonight
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
The problem is that Stannis is supposed to be this unlikeable stoic character with a no-nonsense approach. All he cares about are the strict just rules and thats it. He is, however, well developed by the cast around him. Davos is a very likeable character that shows us a different side to Stannis. He is also not afraid to tell Stannis that he's wrong. Melisandre is pretty damn mysterious and with each scene we learn more about the Lord of Light etc. Even his daughter is quite interesting.
Now compare that to Dany. She is supposed to be well loved by everyone around her. Hell all of her advisors want to fuck her. She doesn't have a Davos or a Melisandre to make it interesting. Grey Worm is so without a character that they had to force him into a romance with Missandri. Missandri herslef is a glorified translator, Barristan is just there and Daario just wants to fuck her and she's hot for him. Jorah was interesting as even with his friendzoning he was willing to tell her when she was wrong, but he would always back away. Dany is just not an interesting character. She acts as a spoiled princess pretending to be a Queen (hell that "I will rule" scene was very cringeworthy) and no one has the heart to set her straight.
Her potrayal by Clark also lacks any sort of charisma which we are told she is supposed to have.
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