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[TheHeretic]

It's pretty clear Jaime raped his sister, pretty insane scene. Jaime was on some kind of redemptive path, seems kind of bizarre in hindsight to write a character taking a new path and then reversing back in a really striking way. His character seems like a mess now, he's all over the place.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Stannis needs to die. Him and black magic crap.

 

[Hours Left]

It's pretty clear Jaime raped his sister, pretty insane scene. Jaime was on some kind of redemptive path, seems kind of bizarre in hindsight to write a character taking a new path and then reversing back in a really striking way. His character seems like a mess now, he's all over the place.

GRRM

 

[Shahadan]

But why would the Iron Bank want to loan money to a loser like Stannis? He doesn't have an army, refuses to pay for sell swords, already lost a major battle and came out of it a wuss. He's lost the support of the common folk. You don't see anyone going, "gee we sure would have liked that Stannis."

Because you loan to people you expect to repay you, and as the show has stated previously, the iron throne owes a lot to the Iron Bank and doesn't want to repay its debt. Stannis, however, is known to have principles.
Also the Iron Bank is vindicative and would love to bring down the current royalty.

 

[TheHeretic]

GRRM

Yeah I guess, it seems like its an important scene from the books, doesn't make a lot of sense though. Why do the whole turning a new leaf subplot if you are going to do that to the character as soon as he gets back to Kings Landing. Is the point that the city itself just caused him to revert into a sociopath?

I really think something was lost in translation there, Jaime has always been under the control of Cersei as well.

 

[deli2000]

That rape scene was disturbing, doesn't even make any sense considering Jaime's arc up until this point.

 

[Hours Left]

Yeah I guess, it seems like its an important scene from the books, doesn't make a lot of sense though. Why do the whole turning a new leaf subplot if you are going to do that to the character as soon as he gets back to Kings Landing. Is the point that the city itself just caused him to revert into a sociopath?

Probably to emphasis how toxic Jamie and Cersei are together. (Not that Joffrey wasn't enough of a reminder.)

 

[SargerusBR]

Eep, I worried for Sansa. I don't want her with Littlefinger.

 

[Hours Left]

He was laying on the creepy voice extra thick tonight.

Run Sansa!

 

[MindCollizion]

What a fucking crazy episode. Getting back into the show after losing interest last season. Haven't read the books. This show is something though. Won't lie some of the scenes were very impacting.

 

[TheHeretic]

Probably to emphasis how toxic Jamie and Cersei are together. (Not that Joffrey wasn't enough of a reminder.)

Well it makes Cersei sympathetic, which is something. It's not even clear if their relationship was abusive, there was the suggestion that Cersei had to hide the abuse she was getting from Robert or Jaime would freak out. I don't see how you can explain that scene retroactively, it just kind of came out of nowhere.

 

[Dennis]

Most of the characters are pretty bad people. You just have to accept that as a premise.

 

[Hours Left]

Well it makes Cersei sympathetic, which is something. It's not even clear if their relationship was abusive, there was the suggestion that Cersei had to hide the abuse she was getting from Robert or Jaime would freak out. I don't see how you can explain that scene retroactively, it just kind of came out of nowhere.

I think Cersei had been emotionally abusive for their entire relationship, and Jamie finally retaliated.

They are pure poison together. They hurt each other and everyone around them.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

IMO the "Across the Narrow Sea" storyline has been the weakest now for a while. Daenerys as portrayed by Emilia Clark is just not a leadership personality. Her authority feels forced. Without her being a convincing and charismatic leader however, the story makes little sense.

I definitely agree with that. Even though she's freeing slaves I still want the slavers to kill her, which is probably not what I should think about her character.

 

[plainr_]

So only 100 men protecting The Wall? I somehow imagined it was bigger.

 

[MindCollizion]

I definitely agree with that. Even though she's freeing slaves I still want the slavers to kill her, which is probably not what I should think about her character.

What reason do you have for them to do that? This is assuming you haven't read the books of course. Don't need to hear any of that.

 

[televator]

That's it! I'm on board with new Daario. Taking down a guy on horse back reminded me of solid snake taking down a battle tank.

With that facial hair he kinda did remind me of big boss. Lol

Sansa... holly shit sansa.

Arya and hound... going somewhere and never quite getting there. Not sure what this episode accomplished for them other than to drive them apart and put them back on square one. I don't think this is the kind of story where arya touches the houd's heart and changes him and they become bffs...

I don't think I much like ygrett.

Jon Snow is calling shots. I like it, but I'm not sure what he really stands for yet. He's been so flip floppy and I don't think the show has given us much to say what the hell his cause is. Maybe he's writen that way in the books too.

Jamie is slipping...

 

[EatChildren]

I get that maybe rapey Jamie was supposed to remind us he's still is, in many ways, a piece of shit. Like many, many characters in the show. This is a dude who pushed a kid out of a window with intent to kill him, promised Cersei he'd have Bran killed if he woke up and talked, bashed what I think was his cousin's head in with a skull, and no doubt supported each and every one of Cersei's murderous conspiracies while also letting Tywin ruthlessly weasel the Lannisters into ruling all of Westeros. He's a fairly complex character because he still possess history and traits we consider admirable, and last season seemed all about giving us a more positive look as his character. Raping Cersei seems pretty out of character though, even in his most volatile state, as sexual assault seems to conflict with his love for her. Yeah she's treated him like shit since he's back, but all of his evils seemed to come back to how dedicated he was to her in the first place. A sick, twisted kind of love that's oddly passionate and true. It's not like he flipped out and killed someone out of frustration. Rape is kind of a "fuck you" to her and that just makes him extra horrible.

And if the intent was to colour his character as morally grey, and remind us of his worse qualities, rape is about as bad as it gets. Maybe a bit too far?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

What reason do you have for them to do that? This is assuming you haven't read the books of course. Don't need to hear any of that.

Because I find her to be extremely arrogant and unlikeable.

 

[Mario007]

But why would the Iron Bank want to loan money to a loser like Stannis? He doesn't have an army, refuses to pay for sell swords, already lost a major battle and came out of it a wuss. He's lost the support of the common folk. You don't see anyone going, "gee we sure would have liked that Stannis."

Iron Bank loans money to those who can pay it back or to those who are opposed to people to whom the Iron Bank had already loaned money and are not paying it back. Either way the Iron Bank always looks to get its money back. That's one of the first things that we've learned about them.

If Stannis could take the throne with the promise to pay back the money to the Bank that the Iron Throne has borrowed over the years I would image he would have their support.

 

[TheHeretic]

I get that maybe rapey Jamie was supposed to remind us he's still is, in many ways, a piece of shit. Like many, many characters in the show. This is a dude who pushed a kid out of a window with intent to kill him, promised Cersei he'd have Bran killed if he woke up and talked, bashed what I think was his cousin's head in with a skull, and no doubt supported each and every one of Cersei's murderous conspiracies while also letting Tywin ruthlessly weasel the Lannisters into ruling all of Westeros. He's a fairly complex character because he still possess history and traits we consider admirable, and last season seemed all about giving us a more positive look as his character. Raping Cersei seems pretty out of character though, even in his most volatile state, as sexual assault seems to conflict with his love for her. Yeah she's treated him like shit since he's back, but all of his evils seemed to come back to how dedicated he was to her in the first place. A sick, twisted kind of love that's oddly passionate and true. It's not like he flipped out and killed someone out of frustration. Rape is kind of a "fuck you" to her and that just makes him extra horrible.

And if the intent was to colour his character as morally grey, and remind us of his worse qualities, rape is about as bad as it gets. Maybe a bit too far?

For me it's just what's true for the character. It was foreseeable that Tywin wouldn't care about the murder of his grandson because of how useless he was as King. Jaime does bad stuff but it's a pretty deliberate kind of bad stuff. If Bran had told everyone about his relationship with Cersei they'd all probably be killed by Robert. It was never suggested that Jaime would rape anyone, let alone his own sister in front of their dead son. It isn't the "evilness" of it as much as it's the incongruity with the character thus far.

 

[MindCollizion]

Because I find her to be extremely arrogant and unlikeable.

She's fighting for what is hers. She knows the cards she has on hand and what she needs to do to get what she wants. I haven't seen anything about her to make her unlikable. But that's just a narrow view of the character from this perspective.

 

[Peagles]

And if the intent was to colour his character as morally grey, and remind us of his worse qualities, rape is about as bad as it gets. Maybe a bit too far?

If so, I agree, too far.

I'm developing a bit of a love/hate relationship with this show. A lot of things are just beginning to strike me as trying too hard to be edgy, shocking, or over the top (sex, violence, etc). I hope things become a bit clearer, particularly with Jamie, he's one of the only characters I like (as in I like how much of his character we have seen and how it has been told/developed, not that I'd like him as a person).

 

[SolidusDave]

If Stannis could take the throne with the promise to pay back the money to the Bank that the Iron Throne has borrowed over the years I would image he would have their support.

The idea came up during the smugglers vs. pirates discussion though, maybe they will try to steal the money so that they don't have to pay it back?

 

[Mario007]

Arya and hound... going somewhere and never quite getting there. Not sure what this episode accomplished for them other than to drive them apart and put them back on square one. I don't think this is the kind of story where arya touches the houd's heart and changes him and they become bffs...

I think it looks like it'll be the other way around. Arya will continue to get hardened by the world and under The Hound's watch.

I get that maybe rapey Jamie was supposed to remind us he's still is, in many ways, a piece of shit. Like many, many characters in the show. This is a dude who pushed a kid out of a window with intent to kill him, promised Cersei he'd have Bran killed if he woke up and talked, bashed what I think was his cousin's head in with a skull, and no doubt supported each and every one of Cersei's murderous conspiracies while also letting Tywin ruthlessly weasel the Lannisters into ruling all of Westeros. He's a fairly complex character because he still possess history and traits we consider admirable, and last season seemed all about giving us a more positive look as his character. Raping Cersei seems pretty out of character though, even in his most volatile state, as sexual assault seems to conflict with his love for her. Yeah she's treated him like shit since he's back, but all of his evils seemed to come back to how dedicated he was to her in the first place. A sick, twisted kind of love that's oddly passionate and true. It's not like he flipped out and killed someone out of frustration. Rape is kind of a "fuck you" to her and that just makes him extra horrible.

And if the intent was to colour his character as morally grey, and remind us of his worse qualities, rape is about as bad as it gets. Maybe a bit too far?

To me, the way that scene plays out was something like this:

Jamie comes in to confront Cersei
Cersei is convinced Tyrion killed Joff and so she wants him killed
Jamie likes Tyrion so opposes
They start kissing
Jamie's gold hand touches Cersei and she pulls away
That pisses off Jamie who calls her a hateful woman as he realises that she might find him off putting now with the hand
Jamie confesses he still loves her despite all the shit she's put him through
Jamie gets passionate and starts to kiss her and wants to have sex
Cersei says no, arguing it wasn't the place to have sex
Jamie don't care.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

She's fighting for what is hers. She knows the cards she has on hand and what she needs to do to get what she wants. I haven't seen anything about her to make her unlikable. But that's just a narrow view of the character from this perspective.

It isn't hers, is it? She simply believes it to be because her ancestors took power. However, the last ruling Targaryen was completely insane and deserved to be deposed.

Now she arrogantly believes ruling Essos and Westeros is her birthright. She can play the anti-slavery card all she likes, but ultimately she's going to have to send her forces into Westeros to butcher and murder people in order to take power.

 

[Akainu]

Wait the picture of those two guys are supposed to be the same person?

 

[televator]

How old is sansa in the show? Otherwise, I honestly don't think there's a way out for her now. She's gonna make little finger some babies. As much as I don't want that to hapen, that's just the way shit rolls on this show. Things get bad, then worse, then slightly less bad, then worse again... At this rate I might actually get burnt out on this show sooner than I thought.

 

[Mario007]

It isn't hers, is it? She simply believes it to be because her ancestors took power. However, the last ruling Targaryen was completely insane and deserved to be deposed.

Now she arrogantly believes ruling Essos and Westeros is her birthright. She can play the anti-slavery card all she likes, but ultimately she's going to have to send her forces into Westeros to butcher and murder people in order to take power.

Plus given the law of the land she would never be the ruler of Westeros due to being a woman...harsh I know, but that's how it is. So she's not getting "what is rightfully hers".

And Dany didn't seem to mind all the slaves she had in season 1.

I think my biggest problem with her storyline is that nothing interesting happens in it since S1. She's just living in this fairytale bubble where every guy wants to fuck her and thus pledges her support while on the other continent we've had 4 kings that died.

 

[televator]

I think it looks like it'll be the other way around. Arya will continue to get hardened by the world and under The Hound's watch.

Can't see arya comming around to punching out poor farmers for their last bits of silver and damning them to a cold death. That would kind of clash with her whole avenger schtick.

 

[chicko1983]

Good episode. Bit pissed off that little finger has Sansa, he's a creep and Sansa will only be depressed for the rest of the show. If they head north, it would be good if the hound and arya rescue her when they hear of news she is in the north. I doubt it though.

I like the dude who took down the horseman. Reminded me of that scene from Troy. Pretty badass and I like him more than the old actor.

Is Ser Davos is going to rob the bank from bentos?

 

[ebullientprism]

The new Daario guy looks like a poor mans Eric Bana.

 

[MindCollizion]

It isn't hers, is it? She simply believes it to be because her ancestors took power. However, the last ruling Targaryen was completely insane and deserved to be deposed.

Now she arrogantly believes ruling Essos and Westeros is her birthright. She can play the anti-slavery card all she likes, but ultimately she's going to have to send her forces into Westeros to butcher and murder people in order to take power.

So what's the alternative? Knowing her character and what actions would have taken place what is the reality of the situation and what actions would a character in this situation be then? Is it not acceptable for her motivation and actions to be thus justified?

 

[Jackpot]

Yeah, that was disgusting. Of all the characters, I thought he would have enough empathy to understand that a mother might not be down to fucking just after her son was murdered. Then he calls her hateful and rapes her for daring to grieve. Jamie is back under the giant asshole list. I hope Cersei never forgives him.

Jamie's been an asshole his entire life. You think a few months of capture would change all that?

 

[Xrenity]

The new Daario guy looks like a poor mans Eric Bana.

I like the new one better. Less douchey.

Also, was the wildling raid an attempt at day for night shooting? Cause that dark filter looked like shit.

 

[wildfire]

yeaaaah fuck jaime and cersei, nasty fucks.

I hate Cersei but she didn't do anything nasty here.

I thought the barrels would be full of weapons, I mean what the slaves are going to do with a bunch of collars?

Rebel.

 

[zkylon]

cool ep., a whole lot of nothing happened but i liked it

jaime rape scene was a bit random but i guess jaime is just broken as a character right now and really doesn't give a fuck anymore.

wonder what the wire shady guy's connection to joffrey's murder is, i'm glad he's back in the show

 

[Radec]

damn, Jaime.

You raped your sister next to your son who died hours ago.

Looks like Tommen is the opposite of Joffrey in many ways. But I guess her bitch mom will still make him into what Joeffrey had become.

 

[solomon]

During the rape scene I was like "Damn ya son just died and you already going in" also I can't help but not care about sam's story line.

 

[deim0s]

So only 100 men protecting The Wall? I somehow imagined it was bigger.

They get slaughtered when they go outside the wall and no one's sending them new recruits.

Was wondering why recruitment is not a regular thing - do they have to plead each and everytime to the king/houses?

 

[chicko1983]

It isn't hers, is it? She simply believes it to be because her ancestors took power. However, the last ruling Targaryen was completely insane and deserved to be deposed.

Now she arrogantly believes ruling Essos and Westeros is her birthright. She can play the anti-slavery card all she likes, but ultimately she's going to have to send her forces into Westeros to butcher and murder people in order to take power.

Not necessarily.

If she has dragons, and she can control them and no one else can, she could take power by threatening westeros kingdoms to surrender before she has to use her dragons or army. She would probably get far with that tactic so long as the dragons are large enough (where we're they in tonight's episode?)

She might have to murder a couple of families, like the lanisters and baratheons, but she would want to do that after they killed her parents. However, if those heads of the families were dead, and she had a loyal army and dragons, she might not have to have a war in westeros at all.

However, if the wildling army goes south, she may have to fight them.

 

[caesar]

who gives a shit about sam?

littlefinger's voice, what the fuck is that?

tywin the man as per

 

[televator]

I hate Cersei but she didn't do anything nasty here.

Well she did try to entice Jamie to commit fratricide.

 

[Hypron]

Thought this was a good episode.

Loved the Pod/Tyrion scene, surprised pod is just gonna turn on him.
Also really liked Lord Tywins "King Speech".

Uuuhhh... Where did you get that from?

 

[EatChildren]

Robert made the point in season one on the dangers of a united army and the overall instability of the realm, as did Jorah on what people want, which is simply to be safe, fed, and happy. A lot of blood will be spilled with Dany rolls over, but she's quite likely to be sympathetic to any who'll kneel, of which will be plenty if she has a gigantic fuck off army, reputation for kindness towards her people, and three dragons ruining shit. You'd have a lot of houses who couldn't give a fuck about who is currently on the throne, maybe even want it themselves, making a correct assumption that fighting her spells doom.

Divide and conquer, and all that. The more fractured the realm is, ironically a fault of their own, the easier she'll steamroll over them.

But given we're four seasons in and she's still wandering fictional Middle East freeing slaves while her dragons grow I suspect her character arc does not involve simply travelling to Westeros and starting a war. My hunch is that her arrival will coincide with a whole heap of other shit going on, like the white walkers.

 

[Dennis]

A song of fire and ice.

What could it possibly mean. Well, I am out of ideas.

 

[caesar]

A song of fire and ice.

What could it possibly mean. Well, I am out of ideas.

Dany, fire. White walkers, ice? Its all I got.

 

[munchie64]

The rape scene was completely unnecessary and gratuitous to me. It's like "people like Jamie too much and hate Cersei too much... what should we do? Rape of course!". I mean seriously, any kind of redemption arc they do with Jamie will now be completely lost on a part of the audience now.

If this has some sort of lasting consequence in the show, then I'll probably end up liking it a lot more, but if it doesn't and is just blown off, then I'll be really fucking pissed.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Did anything happen so far that was "shrugged off" in this show? I honestly wouldn't remember one thing.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Robert made the point in season one on the dangers of a united army and the overall instability of the realm, as did Jorah on what people want, which is simply to be safe, fed, and happy. A lot of blood will be spilled with Dany rolls over, but she's quite likely to be sympathetic to any who'll kneel, of which will be plenty if she has a gigantic fuck off army, reputation for kindness towards her people, and three dragons ruining shit. You'd have a lot of houses who couldn't give a fuck about who is currently on the throne, maybe even want it themselves, making a correct assumption that fighting her spells doom.

Divide and conquer, and all that. The more fractured the realm is, ironically a fault of their own, the easier she'll steamroll over them.

But given we're four seasons in and she's still wandering fictional Middle East freeing slaves while her dragons grow I suspect her character arc does not involve simply travelling to Westeros and starting a war. My hunch is that her arrival will coincide with a whole heap of other shit going on, like the white walkers.

I haven't read the books but let's take a look what we've seen in the show:

God of fire and light
God of ice and darkness

Dragons hatch for the first time in many years
White walkers emerge after thousands of years

Daenarys is immune to fire and intense heat
"Dragon glass"/obsidian is the only thing that can kill a white walker

I don't think she's ever taking over Westeros. I'd wager her entire point of existence is to drive off the white walkers.