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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 4 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Napoleonthechimp
Member
I was completely oblivious to the Iron Bank. Perhaps I should pay more attention.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Wow! Good find.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Am I the only sick fucker that experienced a pleasant wave of schadenfreude when Jamie raped Cersei? I thought it was actually sort of funny that the evil asshole's grieving had to be interrupted by being raped against her incest son's body.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Why are people worried for Sansa? Didn't littlefinger love Catelyn Tully/Stark. I'd imagine he'd be protective over her daughter.
He coveted her and wanted to screw her and now he's transferred that on to Sansa.
Tommen will be king because he's the oldest male sibling of the previous king. It's all explained in the GoT wiki page on Lordship.
Consummating the marriage only would have mattered if Margery got pregnant with Joffrey's child. And that child would only have been the heir to the throne ahead of Tommen if it was a boy. That didn't happen, so If she wants to be Queen she will have to marry Tommen.
Tommen will be king because he's the oldest male sibling of the previous king. It's all explained in the GoT wiki page on Lordship.
Consummating the marriage only would have mattered if Margery got pregnant with Joffrey's child. And that child would only have been the heir to the throne ahead of Tommen if it was a boy. That didn't happen, so If she wants to be Queen she will have to marry Tommen.
soundscream
Member
And who was mining the raw materials for said projects
To deny the abundance of slaves in these societies is a mistake
http://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/slaves_freemen.html
Complistic
Member
Seems like I remember a scene where he gets a little creepy over sansa a few seasons back.
She doesn't plan to use only the army to take over the city. Her speech to the slaves was pretty much her plan. All or some of the slaves revolt and the army + dragons take care of the rest. Meereen is known as a slave city...remember the mile markers? She knows they outnumber the masters.
Kadayi
Banned
Indeed. I can't help but feel that there's a collective failure going on from the 'Jaime is ruined' camp of recognising that he's the sort of man who'd name his sword, as demonstrated on several occasions previously. Just because he has the odd moment of clartfy where he acts like a decent human being shouldn't be confused for thinking that he's not prone to falling off the wagon now and then in spectacular fashion as evinced by events in the last episode.
ComputerBlue
Member
He didn't care for her best interests when he helped frame Ned. Doesn't mean he won't, but he's scum who uses everyone as a pawn.
Says you. This is what the show says:
It seems that for the characters within the show, it's far from clear what denotes being a Queen.
You must have mistaken my post for another cause I never denied the abundance of slaves (not in history, or this show), I was just pointing out there is no correlation between large buildings and slaves, and attempting to end the myth of the pyrimids being built by them, which keeps popping up, especially this time of year.
I think that's just a reflection of how the rules are in practice as opposed to how they're written. Technically she isn't the queen but technically Joffrey wasn't the king, either.
ComputerBlue
Member
I think something for me about that scene that kinda ruined his character for me is not exactly what he did, it's why he did it. He's a simp who does nearly everything and anything as a direct result of his obsession with Cersei. Makes me kinda worry about Tyrion, she wants him dead, and although Jamie said, but he's my brother, he's our brother. His love for Cersei might make him do something he knows he shouldn't, only for her.
In what way wasn't he the King?
He wasn't Robert's son and regardless of that Robert named Ned to rule until he came of age.
soundscream
Member
But there is a correlation between large anchent society's and slaves. While they might not have physically built these structures their existence would not have happened without the inferstructure of slave labor.
Robert wasn't the son of the King before him either.
The King is whoever proclaims themselves to be King and sits on the iron throne. I don't think being Queen is anything like that in this situation. Margaery doesn't seem to literally know what her place in the family is now. And if the only way to be Queen was to wed Tommen, then if Joffrey had consummated the marriage, it would be worse for her, not better. It seems she can marry as many times as she wants as long as she doesn't consummate them, so she's currently still viable to marry Tommen.
Unless the conversation is actually a suggestion that the Tyrells mean to take the city and proclaim her Queen, which seems very unlikely to me.
He was absolutely the king. Robert's will doesn't mean anything if it's not followed. He may have not been the rightful king, but it could be argued that neither was Robert, because he took the Targaryen throne by conquest.
Cersei is his weakness. I'm sure she will be a part of his eventual downfall in some way or another. We've seen that he's capable of doing decent things, but in the end he's never gonna overcome his gross obsession with her.
But the director really botched that scene, if THAT was supposed to be consensual. If that's the case, it's a little less deplorable, but it's hard to shake the image it left us with.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I fucking love the Thenns.
They're badass wildlings, to the max.
Khaleesi was fine, but her scenes are getting a bit samey-samey. Pop up in front of a new city, does something cruuuaaazy, and then does her smug speech. I wish one of her dragons just swooped down to eat that challenger.
Arya & Hound's adventures are pretty good, I love how they give us an insight into the everyday life of the commoners.
Jamie you fucking rapist, you were and always will remain a bastard who deserves to burn in the seven hells.
Pod is fucking awesome, he's one of the best & loyal dudes on the show. Brought a tear to my eye seeing him say goodbye to Tyrion.
Bromance 4evah.
Loved Tywin dragging Joffrey's name through the mud whilst standing right next to his still warm, dead body.
They're badass wildlings, to the max.
Khaleesi was fine, but her scenes are getting a bit samey-samey. Pop up in front of a new city, does something cruuuaaazy, and then does her smug speech. I wish one of her dragons just swooped down to eat that challenger.
Arya & Hound's adventures are pretty good, I love how they give us an insight into the everyday life of the commoners.
Jamie you fucking rapist, you were and always will remain a bastard who deserves to burn in the seven hells.
Pod is fucking awesome, he's one of the best & loyal dudes on the show. Brought a tear to my eye seeing him say goodbye to Tyrion.
Bromance 4evah.
Loved Tywin dragging Joffrey's name through the mud whilst standing right next to his still warm, dead body.
real_slime
Banned
Honestly I think the only way forward I'm interested in considering how terribly this show handles sexual violence and objectification is for Cersei and Jamie and appear in bed next week happy as hell and just pretend the scene went down entirely differently.
Or it would have just been much better to have had the scene end with him saying 'you're a hateful woman' and leave. They couldn't have just given us that?
Or it would have just been much better to have had the scene end with him saying 'you're a hateful woman' and leave. They couldn't have just given us that?
Robert led a rebellion and took it in conquest. The Lannisters simply ignored the laws. The characters and commoners in this fiction at least recognize the legitimacy of a conquerer more readily.
I think she's vague about her being the queen or not because there are options. She can marry the new king of course, or they can work out a deal to have her rule until he comes of age. If we've learned anything after these 3+ seasons it's that anything can be bartered. All signs point to them having just conspired to poison the king so I'm sure their hearts are in it at least.
real_slime
Banned
I'd be fine with this if that's how the scene was played out, but I think the people who are suggesting sexual roleplay here are stretching much farther than those who are taking the scene for what it appears to be.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Hope Tywin better at explaining the birds and bees to Tommmen than he was to Jamie and Cersei
Napoleonthechimp
Member
So you vehemently hate Jamie Lannister but love cannibalistic barbarians?
The commoners have no idea Joffrey wasn't Robert's son though, so their opinion isn't really of importance. In fact, it's possible Tywin doesn't even know, he's seemed to know at times, but spoke to Cersei about the 'rumors' as if they were just rumors.
Joffrey was never made to wait till he came of age, I think that's what some people misunderstood when this discussion came up a few days ago. Although we never see it, he says his coronation would take place a week after Robert's death, and we can presume it did, because he is always referred to as King, from the second Robert dies, and he gives commands freely.
Tommen will presumably be made to wait while the Queen officially rules, but Tywin actually rules.
It's true that they will bend and break any rules they want to meet their intents, in that regard, in the scene when he announced he wouldn't marry Sansa, it was very theatrical, and clearly engineered. No matter what had happened they could have justified Tommen marrying Margaery, if that is their plan. The scene just struck me as strange, because someone who'd wanted to be Queen so much would surely have a well rounded understanding of how all this happens.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Tywin is a fucking G.
Only he could openly diss Joffery in front of his corpse and his grieving mother.
Only he could openly diss Joffery in front of his corpse and his grieving mother.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Because they are what I imagined what the wildlings would be like - blood thirsty barbarians.
The Thenns are making the rest of the Wildlings look like scruffy northeners.
That's great because they make for more interesting foes to the Crows, I don't cheer them on but I acknowledge their badassery.
I'm sure they don't rape anyone, when they pillage around...
Cornballer
Member
Just another reminder for book readers to please use the other thread for discussion. Thank you.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
*avoids looking at recent posts*
Was there a lot of sexy nudey time in last night's episode? I'm staying at my mum's at the moment (having bathroom replaced) and don't want to re-live the awkwardness that is watching people writhe around in orgasmic pleasure on the telly box whilst my mother is in the room. :-/
(violence is fine. Double standards ahoy! )
Was there a lot of sexy nudey time in last night's episode? I'm staying at my mum's at the moment (having bathroom replaced) and don't want to re-live the awkwardness that is watching people writhe around in orgasmic pleasure on the telly box whilst my mother is in the room. :-/
(violence is fine. Double standards ahoy! )
I like the Wildlings just being normal people. Tyrion said he thought they would be right at the start of the show, that the only difference between them and the rest is they happen to be on the other side of the wall, which seemed true, it still seems true really, there's already been talk of the Crows cannibalizing.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Plenty of sexy nudey.
How does you and your mum feel about rape?
There is a fairly lengthy scene of Oberyn, Ellaria, Gay Brothel Owner and several whores in states of nakedness and semi-nakedness on a bed.
There's also another polarising scene, which isn't really "nudey". Very uncomfortable viewing.
Gay Brothel Owner could get it.
Louis CK
Of course there's no ambiguity to the act of actual consent. The Jaime/Cersei scene looked like rape to me, but the only grey area I can see there being is that what LOOKS like consent to an outside observer can be ambiguous when a couple has been involved for so long. It is HIGHLY unlikely, I grant you, but what if Cersei has made it clear to Jaime in the past that "No means yes unless I say the safe word"? She's pretty fucked up, I wouldn't doubt if she had a rape fantasy. NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT IT WAS LAST EPISODE. I'm saying there might be further clarification in the coming ones.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
Right, looks like I'll be watching it on the tablet then.
With the headphones on. :-|
Thanks all. Saved me reliving some awkward moments from my youth!
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
I would love to watch a show just about Daenerys.
I think the letters Stannis sent made sure most people have heard either the story straight from a person that knows or the rumors that undoubtedly float around after something like that. The whole Renly and Loras thing was well known despite not being "known". And I think Tywin absolutely knows but wouldn't ever acknowledge it of course. He's too smart.
She may have been acting as a proxy for the audience but that would be pretty blunt. It also really doesn't seem like Margaery was involved in the plot so it could just be her understanding the fluidity of the politics in King's Landing.
Dear god no. She is amazing and tolerable in her short bursts. Anymore and it would start to get irritating.
She's already self righteous enough. Imagine an entire episode, christ.
If anything, I want to see more Bran.
VanquishUK
Member
Littlefinger's accent is awful, but the episode was good overall.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I think what makes her storyline dull is that she's portrayed as this irresistible force totally immune from the political and military quagmire plaguing all the other major players on the show. There has been no recent twist, no intriguing subplot related to her story. Coupled with the fact that everyone is well aware of her ultimate goal and she's drawing towards it at a snail's pace despite having the means to finally fulfill it makes her arc incredibly frustrating.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I love the coli reactions to these episodes btw:
Stannis is struggling. No gold or silver, an illiterate ex con hand of the kind, half lizard daughter, wife who can't even tell when the meat has turned
and a red headed witch who kills his family membere.
Worst crew by far.
Well people were always discussing the incest rumors, they're certainly mentioned within the show by characters that don't actually know, but Stannis wants the throne, I wouldn't think anyone would take his word as objective fact.
Regardless, even with the rumors, Joffrey's stake might have been questioned by those in the know, but his rule wasn't by 'the commoners'. People accepted him as King as far as the show really communicates. Even the people of the North that follow Robb, they don't seem to be focused on him not being a rightful King, just him having had Eddard killed.
AuthenticM
Member
You don't need to be so defensive. The reason I wasn't shocked by that scene was precisely because of the people involved in what was being depicted. We're not the only ones. Afterall, the director himself said that the sex was consensual. If Cersei truly did not want to have sex with Jaimie, she would have made it known much more strongly. She wouldn't have stopped at "No, not here." She's anything but powerless and submissive. And she was with her brother, with whom she's been having sex for over two decades. My reaction to seeing what was happening was not "Holy shit, Cersei is being raped" but " (raises eyebrow) Really ? You two are going to do this next to your dead son ?"
If the actors had been different, if Jaimie had done this to a different woman, I would've had a different reaction, but from these two, it was just another Game of Thrones sex scene. Next to a dead body, that is. That part was messed up.
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