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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 5 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Is that really all that happened or were their logical reasons as to why the situations were different and called for different measures? Hmmmm....
Napalm_Frank
Member
I'd imagine it's within kings power to do that within the "law".
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Nice to hear, this was fucking annoying as a european.
Meryn Trant (the Kingsguard captain at the time) is still alive, so either Syrio got all of them knocked out/out run them, or he died.
Since the series is starting to wrap up, I'm not sure if there will be time for his comeback anyway. But in my mind, Syrio will appear in the time of most need, and teach his last lesson to Arya. And then she will fight against multiple skeletons lead by a Whitewalker FrankenMountain mounted over a zombi Mammoth.. because why not.
Winterfang
Banned
The guy didn't needed a trial, he pledge guilty to the highest authority in the country.
Napalm_Frank
Member
One thing I never really 100% got was how exactly did Joffrey manage to execute Ned. He was underaged and thus Cersei was the Queen Regent who had pretty much complete authority at that point, there wasn't even Hand then.
It wasn't like she wanted Ned to die. She protested to Joffrey, why didn't she just order Ser Ilyn to stop (hell, why didn't Ilyn wait for Cersei to give her approval. I'd imagine Royal Executioner wouldn't be one to rush these things). I doubt she was that afraid of Joffrey at this point considering we see her slap him later on and shit. I doubt Cersei cared much about the public opinion considering I doubt she was that stupid to not know that killing Ned would result in a shitstorm. Even Tywin and Tyrion shake their heads at her not interrupting Joff.
I have no real ''problem'' with it but I guess it would have made more sense if Cersei was absent for some reason and thought Joffrey would pardon Ned as he had said.
It wasn't like she wanted Ned to die. She protested to Joffrey, why didn't she just order Ser Ilyn to stop (hell, why didn't Ilyn wait for Cersei to give her approval. I'd imagine Royal Executioner wouldn't be one to rush these things). I doubt she was that afraid of Joffrey at this point considering we see her slap him later on and shit. I doubt Cersei cared much about the public opinion considering I doubt she was that stupid to not know that killing Ned would result in a shitstorm. Even Tywin and Tyrion shake their heads at her not interrupting Joff.
I have no real ''problem'' with it but I guess it would have made more sense if Cersei was absent for some reason and thought Joffrey would pardon Ned as he had said.
Winterfang
Banned
Joffrey was still the king. his little brother is even younger and if he told his guards to kill someone I'm sure they would obey the king's orders.
Napalm_Frank
Member
They would but queen regent comes over a minor king and Cersei was present. She should have had the power to stop it. Even Tyrion for example walked all over Joff when he was the Hand.
Edit: and man, I wonder who the next Hand will be. The 3 thus far have been among my favourite characters (heck, Davos too).
Well, she was never the brightest of the family. Both Tywin and Tyrion chastise her for that, and in the later case, she accepts not having any controlling power over Joffrey anymore. That's why she was later surprised on how easy Margaery gained his approval.
Either way, in the state of mind he was at that point, she probably didn't want to risk it.
Nameless
Member
The Queen Regent in no way has more authority than the King, however old he is. The second Joffrey was crowned his word was law. Cersei merely assumed that being his mother she could control him likes she's controlling Tommen now. It's just that Tommen is too young and gentle to put up much resistance, but if he suddenly decided to start flexing his kingly muscles(or Margaery does it for him) Cersei would be powerless, by law at least, to stop him.
Arrowgigantic
Member
Dany is nutso, but it's not for executing the guy without a trial. He confessed, readily and happily. She is nutso for publicly executing him, period. He killed a guy who killed an Unsullied. Nobody was going to think he was wrong.
Ms. Execute My Brother For Being Crazy But No Way My Dad Was Crazy has got more of her fam in her than she would like to admit. I mean if she wasn't magically fireproof she'd have killed herself already, it's only a matter of time before she finds a way to get herself got.
Ms. Execute My Brother For Being Crazy But No Way My Dad Was Crazy has got more of her fam in her than she would like to admit. I mean if she wasn't magically fireproof she'd have killed herself already, it's only a matter of time before she finds a way to get herself got.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Then what would have been the point of having Ned, the Hand as regent if Joffrey still had the higher authority? Joffrey+Cersei would have just removed him from the position if underage king had full power. Cersei certainly couldn't ''control'' Joffrey but she still should have been able to have the last word. Am I really getting this wrong?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Depends. Maybe George finds the most generic ending of all time and puts her on the throne at the end, maybe even with Jon Snow. Man that ending sounds shite.
Personally, I don't think the Iron Throne will be worth sitting on by the end. The dragons will have laid waste to Kings Landing in Dany's invasion attempt and Winter will cover it in snow (see Bran and Dany's visions of the ruined throne room).
The Game is a distraction. Stopping the white walkers and surviving Winter are the only things that matter.
The Game is a distraction. Stopping the white walkers and surviving Winter are the only things that matter.
He was appointed as Hand AND regent by Robert, which means that he was in effect, the substitute King until Joffrey would come to age. Had Ned been wise and had known how to play "the game", he could have isolated both the kid and the mother, putting his people in key positions, leaving Joffrey to play/pretend to be a King (at least for a time), while he would be the real power, just like Twyin and Tyrion did later on.
After all, the kid was never interested on anything not related to war or himself. So, it's not as he would be meddling on anything relevant.
I'm curious to know what will happen with the Iron Bank. Will anyone do something about it? I mean, once the White walkers and the Dragons are dealt with, I imagine a good part of Westeros would be in ruins, meaning that everyone would be in even more debt with it. How would that be acceptable by the God(s) or Danny?
I say Ser Davos is a bank agent and he is shilling his way with Stannis, and later with Jon. (The King Beyond the Wall didn't need or had money, so to the pyre he went). He will be the true real Owner of Westeros state.
I don't think it's a matter of law, so much as practice. On paper, Cersei could have stopped Joffrey, because he was a minor and does not have the full theoretical legal powers of his office.
In practice, she doesn't have the pull to be able to counter him, which may partly be a gender thing, but it's also, I expect, because Joffrey was almost an adult, so a lot of people would choose to follow his orders anyway just because he would very soon be in full legal control and nobody wanted him harbouring grudges against them.
It's the same situation as with her and Tywin. On paper, the Queen Regent is actually Tywin's boss when he was Hand. But in practice, of course, that idea just doesn't fly, and even Cersei doesn't really believe that Tywin isn't the one in charge.
I think the theme of these first two episodes is "people are generally shit when they get a little power"
Dany, Stannis, etc. are showing total weakness in their ability to lead people right now. That can't be a coincidence. Either someone new will rise and actually be a competent leader, or one of the existing ones will make some huge changes in how the lead to become competent.
Dany, Stannis, etc. are showing total weakness in their ability to lead people right now. That can't be a coincidence. Either someone new will rise and actually be a competent leader, or one of the existing ones will make some huge changes in how the lead to become competent.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Prince Aemon will finally get his shot
Says who?
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Stannis made smart plays these two episodes, the problem was that people were prideful/honorable
stupid
Nameless
Member
Robert also named Ned Protector of the Realm, which formally gave him authority to rule the Kingdoms until Joffrey was ready. There's nothing absolute precluding young monarchs from ruling under any circumstance though, rather measures put in place to allow for someone experienced to run things in the event the King/Queen is too young to realistically take on those responsibilities(which Joffrey wasn't) or need more experience.
Cersei being a woman , therefore unable to name herself Hand or Protector, allowed Joffrey to assume the crown with full authority, again, thinking she'd be able to bend her young son to her will. When Ned enters the thrown room and Joffrey's full title is recited it ends with Protector of the Realm.
While I disagree that the Queen Regent is the Hand's boss on paper, I do think that yeah, Tywin had more actionable authortity than Joffrey despite lawfully being his subordinate and most likely could have stopped Ned from being beheaded.
The Queen Regent has the full authority of the king, on paper; they can fire the Hand, just as the king can. But, of course, were Cersei to try to do that, Tywin would just have grimaced and ordered her sent away to Casterly Rock.
It wouldn't matter if Cersei gave herself other titles. Queen Regent is enough, if she had the will to enforce it.
Nameless
Member
The way I understand it the Hand is the second highest position in the Kingdoms behind only the King himself -- hence why when Tyrion, as Hand, locked away Pycelle and had Myrcella shipped to Dorne, Cersei was powerless to stop him.
Only when there is no Hand does the Queen or Lord Regent act as second in command to the young King , which is why Cersei is in no rush to name one for Tommen.
The Hand is the #2 normally, when there's just an adult king. The regent has the power of the king, so in those situations they're superior.
The reason Cersei couldn't do anything about Tyrion was the same reason she couldn't do anything about Tywin, since Tyrion was Tywin's representative: power resides with the people who actually control the machinery, and the Lannister forces answer to Tyrion, because Tywin told them so.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
You know...if the poor of King's Landing would come together, they could probably take the throne rather easily.
Stannis would give no shits however, and challenge them each to a fight individually when the time comes. #BendTheKnee
Stannis would give no shits however, and challenge them each to a fight individually when the time comes. #BendTheKnee
Awesome! I always hate that week off.
ComputerBlue
Member
I always hated it until the last episode, then I was thankful that we had one more week, lol.
It would have undermined Joffrey's authority if Cersei stepped in and stopped the execution after Joffrey already ordered it, and for a kid that JUST became KING, it would have been a bad move. I'm sure she viewed it as a lose-lose because killing Ned caused the North to rebel at a time where there were already other Houses rebelling, but to embarrass the King and show mercy to a traitor at a time when traitors were popping up all over from their perspective would be bad too. The King has to look strong and rally support while instilling fear in anyone who has even a thought of treason.
I think there could be many reasons really but we have the fortune of knowing how everything played out from there unlike her. Ned was causing her problems and was encouraging people to remove her family from power so she took her chances.
Hell, I think she's been wrapped up so much in her own "prophecy" (that she's making a self-fulfilled prophecy with her stupid decisions) that I'm not sure you should expect rational decisions from her in many cases. She knows how to play the game, but is blinded by her emotions and cared more about protecting her family even if her way of protecting them gets them all killed.
Just my thoughts, but when someone is trying to remove your son from power, the last thing you want to do is undermine your son and make him look weak.
Mind you, this was early on and people didn't know how shitty he'd be yet.
I think there could be many reasons really but we have the fortune of knowing how everything played out from there unlike her. Ned was causing her problems and was encouraging people to remove her family from power so she took her chances.
Hell, I think she's been wrapped up so much in her own "prophecy" (that she's making a self-fulfilled prophecy with her stupid decisions) that I'm not sure you should expect rational decisions from her in many cases. She knows how to play the game, but is blinded by her emotions and cared more about protecting her family even if her way of protecting them gets them all killed.
Just my thoughts, but when someone is trying to remove your son from power, the last thing you want to do is undermine your son and make him look weak.
Mind you, this was early on and people didn't know how shitty he'd be yet.
borborygmus
Member
I thought for sure that if he was ever brought back, he'd be recast. I'm so glad he wasn't. That actor is amazing and actually kind of hilarious.
I love the way he talks. He's a cool dude.
lastplayed
Member
I thought for sure that if he was ever brought back, he'd be recast. I'm so glad he wasn't. That actor is amazing and actually kind of hilarious.
It's funny he's one of the chracters they didn't recast, considering his abilities.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Which characters have been recast? I only remember the Mountain and Daario off the top of my head.
borborygmus
Member
He has an "early 90s TV show" vibe that I love.
Indeed. I thought that the initial reveal of his ability at the end of season 2 was an indication of some recasting shenanigans for the following season. I'm glad that wasn't the case.
Tommen was also recast as of last season, but it was fairly unnoticeable as unlike The Mountain and Dario, they picked someone who resembles the previous actor at least.
the_firewithin
Member
Mrycella this season
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Rickon was recast as an invisible child that the writers can't see
haha, ok that made me laugh. I hope we see him....sometime this season.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Jokes on you. Rickon is the one true King, the one who will sit last on the Iron Throne.
the_firewithin
Member
Only over ser pounces cold dead paws
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Question:
Were all the Kings in Westeros of House Targaryen before Robert ? Can anybody be King if he kills the King and his Kingdom ?
Were all the Kings in Westeros of House Targaryen before Robert ? Can anybody be King if he kills the King and his Kingdom ?
*Song of Ice and Fire*
Jon and Dani will marry and unite the world under their plot armor rule!
There were a bunch of separate kingdoms in Westeros before the first Targaryen king conquered and united them all with his dragons. Although I don't remember whether the first Targaryen or a later one got Dorne to join to complete the Seven Kingdoms. I think Dorne joined through marriage rather than through conquest.
I looked at the Wikia through the gaps in my fingers and basically, yes, they were all Targaryen or this splinter house of Targayens from a half-brother. Before them, there was no united throne. King Robert was the first non-dynastic ruler of the seven kingdoms.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Him and Benjen will take turns brofisting on the iron throne
Beric Dondarrion too
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