Support NeoGAF

[Slayven]

I don't see how the twist makes it worse, I really don't.

It's so unnecessary and direct

 

[The Kree]

You could make that point a lot better if the protagonist being Asian "inside" was dealt with throughout the film and not via twist ending.

Almost sounds like the ending was an afterthought, a way to try to cover their asses.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's so unnecessary and direct

'Well, we had to do something!'

 

[BLOODED_hands]

As an Asian America, I don't find this offens-

Bwahahahahahahaha. I'm sorry. I couldn't keep a straight face while typing that.

They really thought that was clever and thinking it was all meta and shit. Fuck out of here! What a slap to Asian Americans.

 

[Not]

I don't see how the twist makes it worse, I really don't.

EDIT: I may have misunderstood you.

 

[bobbychalkers]

Its so fitting that

Spoiler

----Get Out----------

came out not too long ago. You can tell the writers thought that they were so clever when they came up with that but I could have seen this coming a mile away.

 

[ultracal31]

Sounds like the ending was an afterthought, a way to cover their asses.

It really wasn't

In all versions of the movie I saw that twist and the plot around it was in all of them

 

[Breads]

Should have renamed the movie Get In.

It's so white wash we have a new term for it called 'white bodied'

This is the only good thing to come from the movie. White washed sounds too innocuous. Too easy for people to eye roll and groan away. I will now use "white bodied" and see what reactions I can get.

 

[Zero315]

I mean, it is...But you're right, that means nothing.

Get ready though, Death Note is coming, and if you're mad about white washing here, you will be LIVID on that one.

At least Death Note probably isn't going to slap you in the face with it like this movie did.

 

[Haly]

For those of you who argue/buy into the "post-racial" angle, do you ever seem to notice how "post-racial" societies are still predominantly white? Pale skin isn't even a dominant trait, race mixing tends toward tan/brown and yet, dystopian cyberpunk futures where race has lost meaning due to the rise of cybernetic bodies are still... starkly blanched.

 

[Rumblebones]

There was no reason for this film to take place in Japan if they really wanted ScarJo to be the Major.

Section 9 could have easily been part of Interpol or something and the story could have taken place on Chicago or LA or whatever. Any big metropolitan city. Even Tokyo would have worked without this stupid ass twist.

Throughout the film, I kept seeing these characters and thinking, "There's no reason this character couldn't have been played by an Asian actor [Dr. Ouélet], or that character [CEO of Hanka], or that character [most of S9 team]."

This film was so tone deaf it's astonishing.

Had they really wanted ScarJo as well as the entire Japanese setting - why not make ScarJo the villain? Villains are important. ScarJo is a talented actress. She could take up half the film and still be a big marketing presence.

There were so many better ways of going about this, I can't comprehend why they thought what they did was the right choice.

Then again, fucking Togusa barely had any screen time in this, so whatever, I should have braced myself for fuckery by the second act.

 

[Cartman86]

The movie wants to use this plot point as a way to say something interesting (and it is interesting), but clearly drops the ball. It ultimately doesn't have anything of substance to say about it. The visit with the mother may be the most human point in the film, but it's put into the wrong movie. There is a similar moment earlier in the film where Batou is peeing at urinal and he notices the person peeing next to him looks like a woman. It's played for laughs, but again in a smarter movie it wouldn't have been. Identity is the key to this film, and they throw random words at the topic, but nothing comes together which is so unfortunate. What if the fact that everyone was white was about something? The pressure to conform? The movie doesn't deal with even the most basic questions one could think of. Apparently the film Advantageous does a better job with this subject matter.

 

[Not]

Should have renamed the movie Get In.

Get In the Shell?

 

[Vicetrailia]

lol WOW.

I like how they invalidated the typical defense force arguments too.

 

[Mesoian]

You could make that point a lot better if the protagonist being Asian "inside" was dealt with throughout the film and not via twist ending.

But that would ruin the twist.

I'm not saying it was done well, but this movie is already sort of fumbling through two dozen concepts in order to arrive at a conclusion, adding the concept of race to a plot about the loss of humanity only muddies things further.

Plus I don't know how you really make the idea of being "asian inside" prominant when almost the entire cast are only part of their obvious race tangentially, being more robotic than human at the end of the day. Black Ishikawa (which is something no one has a problem with) mentions it at the beginning of the movie when they talk about how he reaplced his liver with an artificial one so he can drink more and when they bring up the fact that Togusa is 100% human, save for interface plugs.

The movie covers all of this shit, poorly, quickly, not long enough for it to have an impact. But it does cover it.

At least Death Note probably isn't going to slap you in the face with it like this movie did.

Oh I wonder...

 

[Arkeband]

Then you're as insensitive and/or oblivious as the filmmakers.

OR not.

The variety article is hilarious:

"“Apparently, in Hollywood, Japanese people can’t play Japanese people anymore,” MANAA President Robert Chan said. “There’s no reason why either Motoku..."

#Justice4Motoku

 

[smileyforall220]

It's silly, but nothing about the Major is necessarily Asian. Many other characters that are cyborgs also look vaguely European, only certain characters in the movie look definitively Asian and Japanese. I don't see the white washing

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Should have renamed the movie Get In.

That's already reserved for the Get Out XXX parody.

It's silly, but nothing about the Major is necessarily Asian.

Its in her NAME for fuck's sake...

 

[Mindlog]

"But isn't that true?"

 

[Zero315]

Its so fitting that

Spoiler

Get Out

came out not too long ago. You can tell the writers thought that they were so clever when they came up with that but I could have seen this coming a mile away.

As I said in another thread they really did think they were being clever.

While fans and prominent Asian-American actresses cited the casting as yet another example of Hollywood whitewashing, one man involved in the project is singing a different tune: producer Steven Paul, who told BuzzFeed he thinks the movie actually won’t disappoint anyone.

“I think everybody is going to end up being really happy with it,” Paul said in an interview published Wednesday. “They’re going to be very, very happy with it when they see what we’ve actually done with it, and I don’t think anybody’s going to be disappointed.”

 

[Frozenprince]

It was.

No it wasn't. Her amnesia(TM) was meant to provide suspense and be a "twist" for the viewers. Not a feeling of internal turmoil over her racial identity. Racial identity is never even addressed as being a key point, transhumanist stories only really work if you address the issues preceeding the narrative as being important. Her being transferred into a new body, not being made white, is the plot point.

 

[RinsFury]

Why do people always use this bullshit excuse in these kinds of situations?
"Yeah, they white-washed, but at least they got a multicultural cast to play second fiddle and be in the background to the white actor."

"They should be thankful for what they got"

 

[Burbeting]

It's silly, but nothing about the Major is necessarily Asian. Many other characters that are cyborgs also look vaguely European, only certain characters in the movie look definitively Asian and Japanese. I don't see the white washing

Spoiler

Except they outright state that she is Asian. Or well, Asian soul inside a white body.

 

[smileyforall220]

That's already reserved for the Get Out XXX parody.



Its in her NAME for fuck's sake...

It's a movie made in Japan, ALL of the characters have Japanese names. That doesn't imply ethnicity

 

[kirblar]

Oh I wonder...

Netflix Death Note moved the entire plot to the US - at that point you're completely translating it and the ethnicity of the original characters is largely irrelevant.

 

[Not]

It's silly, but nothing about the Major is necessarily Asian. Many other characters that are cyborgs also look vaguely European, only certain characters in the movie look definitively Asian and Japanese. I don't see the white washing

Every single sentence in this post is sending my palm straight through my fucking forehead

If you don't understand what whitewashing is (which explains why you wouldn't "see" it") and how it disproportionately affects Asian-Americans throughout cinematic history, you need to educate yourself immediately.

 

[Mesoian]

As I said in another thread they really did think they were being clever.

When I heard that, I thought they were going to do the original ending of the movie

Spoiler

with Kuze and the Major fusing minds together, then being stolen away from the scene by Batou before she can be arrested or destroyed by Hanka, then her mind put into the body of a small asian girl before she leaves into the night.

That probably would have been better, or at the very least, better than what little ending we did get.

Every single sentence in this post is sending my palm straight through my fucking forehead

He's right, but he doesn't know why he's right and it doesn't really matter since the movie pretty much erases why he's right from the story in order for it to have been easier to digest from people who aren't familiar with the TV or the manga.

So I guess he's not right.

 

[smileyforall220]

Spoiler

Except they outright state that she is Asian. Or well, Asian soul inside a white body.

In that case it doesn't matter what she looks like at all since the shell could look like anyone.

 

[Frozenprince]

When I heard that, I thought they were going to do the original ending of the movie

Spoiler

with Kuze and the Major fusing minds together, then being stolen away from the scene by Batou before she can be arrested or destroyed by Hanka, then her mind put into the body of a small asian girl before she leaves into the night.

That probably would have been better, or at the very least, better than what little ending we did get.

They shot an ending with that in mind.

It didn't test well.

 

[- J - D -]

It's interesting to see the comparisons to the recent film

Spoiler

Get Out

and the divide in reception to that movie and Ghost in the Shell's if they do indeed share at their cores a similar social theme.

 

[smileyforall220]

Every single sentence in this post is sending my palm straight through my fucking forehead

Good argument, hyperbole is a great way to spur discussion. The only definitively Asian characters in the first move are some side characters like the young police guy, the head of the whole operation, etc.

 

[Not]

It's a movie made in Japan, ALL of the characters have Japanese names. That doesn't imply ethnicity

How goddamn fucking convenient

Good argument, hyperbole is a great way to spur discussion. The only definitively Asian characters in the first move are some side characters like the young police guy, the head of the whole operation, etc.

I added more to my post.

 

[Mesoian]

They shot an ending with that in mind.

It didn't test well.

HAHA GUESS WHAT ENDING ALSO DIDN'T TEST WELL!

Ah....stick to your gut guys.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Or like if they made a movie about the 47 Ronin, Japan's national fable, and inserted a half-white guy with no bearing to the actual plot and made HIM the main focus-- oh wait...

There's a long history of Hollywood trying to pass off Keanu as a white guy.

 

[VeryGooster]

"But isn't that true?"

10/10

 

[More_Badass]

I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this concept done in other cyberpunk/sci-fi works like Altered Carbon and figured it would fine and clever doing that here, without seeing how tone-deaf and offensive that would be in the context of this story and movie

 

[Frozenprince]

This movie is so thoroughly Japanese that Beat Takeshi speaks in Japanese the whole movie.

 

[Mesoian]

Good argument, hyperbole is a great way to spur discussion. The only definitively Asian characters in the first move are some side characters like the young police guy, the head of the whole operation, etc.

You'd have an easier time with this argument taking the position of "we don't actually know what city GITS takes place in." Because we don't. Even in the original we don't.

But going based off looks means nothing when the new movie changes the race of a bunch of the main cast.

 

[Jarmel]

You'd have an easier time with this argument taking the position of "we don't actually know what city GITS takes place in." Because we don't. Even in the original we don't.

But going based off looks means nothing when the new movie changes the race of a bunch of the main cast.

If I remember correctly, it's implied to be Hong Kong even if they don't directly state it.

 

[Loudninja]

I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this concept done in other cyberpunk/sci-fi works like Altered Carbon and figured it would fine and clever doing that here, without seeing how tone-deaf and offensive that would be in the context of this story and movie

Yeah this is what pisses me off the most.

But this atleast this did not go over well.

 

[smileyforall220]

How goddamn fucking convenient



I added more to my post.

Yeah you added it after I posted, how convenient. I know what white washing is, this movie is not the hill to die on as it's characters have such vague ethnicities. The whole point of the first film is that anyone can be anything based off their memories. Just because the movie is made in Japan you assume all actors must be Japanese? That's the quibble that of saying a movie made in America should be an all white cast.

 

[Frozenprince]

You'd have an easier time with this argument taking the position of "we don't actually know what city GITS takes place in." Because we don't. Even in the original we don't.

But going based off looks means nothing when the new movie changes the race of a bunch of the main cast.

We do know it takes place in Japan though, it's obvious from it's imagery to the signs on buildings and advertisements to architecture to the fact that the leader of this super secret paramilitary goverment group speaks Japanese.

 

[Alienous]

Yeah, I can see how they thought they were being clever.

On the face of it, having not seen the movie, I'm veering towards it being cringeworthy more than offensive. And a weird admission of wrongdoing.

Like, you can't have your cake and eat it. You made your choice, stick with it, and certainly don't make a half-assed attempt at correcting it.

 

[Septimus Prime]

"You can be Asian, as long as you're white."

Gee, thanks.

 

[Mesoian]

If I remember correctly, it's implied to be Hong Kong even if they don't directly state it.

For this movie, that would make dramatically more sense than Tokyo. Even in the original, it makes more sense for it to be a new Asian city that has nothing to do with currently existing locations. The amount of cultural diversity in the original and the TV show is pretty staggering compared to any modern day Japanese metropolis.

 

[demosthenes]

They shot an ending with that in mind.

It didn't test well.

I don't know how they could have. Once you see the movie

Spoiler

and how she's literally the first true successful switch, what body could Batou or section 9 have put her in?

For this movie, that would make dramatically more sense than Tokyo. Even in the original, it makes more sense for it to be a new Asian city that has nothing to do with currently existing locations. The amount of cultural diversity in the original and the TV show is pretty staggering compared to any modern day Japanese metropolis.

The anime takes place in New Port City.

 

[smileyforall220]

You'd have an easier time with this argument taking the position of "we don't actually know what city GITS takes place in." Because we don't. Even in the original we don't.

But going based off looks means nothing when the new movie changes the race of a bunch of the main cast.

The only clear things are that much of the movie is set in Kowloon city in Hong Kong, and the main base is in Japan. I agree about the changes being somewhat strange, I just didn't see ethnicity in many of the robot characters, specifically since they are so robot. Whereas the human characters are very much Japanese/Chinese/hong king citizens

 

[Not]

I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this concept done in other cyberpunk/sci-fi works like Altered Carbon and figured it would fine and clever doing that here, without seeing how tone-deaf and offensive that would be in the context of this story and movie

Whoa Altered Carbon sounds cool. It's coming to Netflix too. Sounds like Ghost in the Sleeve

 

[Jarmel]

The anime takes place in New Port City.

Yea but they went to Hong Kong and a lot of the imagery is from there.

Apparently someone did a comparison video.

 

[- J - D -]

I wouldn't be surprised if they saw this concept done in other cyberpunk/sci-fi works like Altered Carbon and figured it would fine and clever doing that here, without seeing how tone-deaf and offensive that would be in the context of this story and movie

Wow good call on Altered Carbon. I could see how, with some of Carbon's nuance this would have played out better. I wonder if this will affect the production on the Altered Carbon tv show.