Japan is a far more homogeneous society than the US. That's the whole point of the US, at least mythically. Melting. Pot.
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Ghost in the Shell's ending spurs new accusations of even worse whitewashing
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Japan is a far more homogeneous society than the US. That's the whole point of the US, at least mythically. Melting. Pot.
GutsOfThor
Member
Hahahaha! What a bunch of fucking hacks lol. Glad I didn't support this shit.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
This sounds perfectly fine.
I wrote in the OT that this would reignite the whitewashing debate and, well there it is...
To me, this doesn't seem like an afterthought or response to the casting controversy. It was such a core part of the movie that I think it was scripted from the very beginning, before they started casting.
To me, this doesn't seem like an afterthought or response to the casting controversy. It was such a core part of the movie that I think it was scripted from the very beginning, before they started casting.
Oh boy, this is disgusting. I can't even imagine who proofread this and thought "Yeah, sure".
I'd believe that.
And even if it's not true, even if the one truly great thing this movie does is keep the conversation about real ass white washing going instead of it being a quick blip that fades into nothing, that in and of itself is fantastic.
Again, I don't agree with that quoted statement at all.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You ever met a white person named Carlos Ramirez Gonzalez? No? Well no white person is ever named Motoko Kusanagi.
smileyforall220
Member
So are you saying white people cant be born in Japan/China/Hong Kong and have names from those places? How do you think interracial families exist?
Yes their review is hilarious they also cover the racial part of the movie's ending in their review (starts 20 minutes in but the whole thing is worth watching).
https://youtu.be/hhnpYhs01Dc?t=1194
"I'm gonna tell you, Asians, you need to do something about this shit, you need to get up and protest this shit because if this had been black folks we would've burned these theaters down!"
XD
S'fair, I probably also jumped the gun upon reading the quote. Hopefully the real intention was that the transplantation of a human brain into a robot/cyborg was the next step of human evolution, but the extra context does make it unsettling.
To be fair, I have met a white woman named Mira.
Ya'll know she doesn't find out her real name until 3/4ths of the way through the movie right? Hanka scrubs her identity entirely. If it wasn't for the guilty conscious of the head scientist, she would have continued thinking her name was Mira Killian.
I think this is kind of overblown.
Personally I thought it was a funny self referential twist on this whole controversy.
Would a Japanese major have been nice? Sure. But I think it makes sense why the Major looks the way she does in this. As a huge GiTS fan I think they did a great job.
The filmmakers really can't win no matter what they do.
I saw the movie last night and enjoyed it. Scarjo is essentially a big piece of metal these corporate assholes stuck a young girl into against her will. In the movie, the corp is portrayed as being run by a bunch of European scientists, so of course they'd create a westernized looking robot body that looks as good as Scarjo.
Personally I thought it was a funny self referential twist on this whole controversy.
Would a Japanese major have been nice? Sure. But I think it makes sense why the Major looks the way she does in this. As a huge GiTS fan I think they did a great job.
The filmmakers really can't win no matter what they do.
Salty Rice
Member
Charlie Sheen is a pretty white guy to me.
Execution aside, that sounds like they combined these two plots from the manga
Weirdly enough, the movie takes from a lot of different GITS sources. There's little bits of the manga, the original movie, the bad sequel and both seasons of the tv show in it. Unforunately, they're mostly just winks and nods and elbows to the ribs as they go "REMEMBER THIS! REMEMBER? OOOOOH I REMEMBER!"
Umm are you trying to say this is not real white washing?
Sorry if I didnt read that right.
Aztechnology
Member
I don't support how they tried to handle to controversy with frankly stupid writing. They thought they were being clever, but we all know the real reason. With that being said. I still understand their casting decision. I know it's anecdotal but pretty much no one I know aside from myself is a GITS fan. They had no understanding even after the trailers of what the film was actually about and the only connecting thread and reason they considered going was because of Scarlett Johansson. Every time it was referenced amongst my friends or people in public it was always "The movie with Scarlett Johannson" "The one where Scarlett Johannson is a cyborg/robot." Etc.
A decade old niche anime film is not the movie I see Hollywood, or even the two Chinese co producers taking risks on casting with. It's a calculated decision on their parts. And you better believe they do testing to see the reaction of viewers as others here have stated.
I struggle to think of a Japanese actress that could have filled the role and pulled numbers or name recognition in a meaningful way.
Who would you guys have cast?
A decade old niche anime film is not the movie I see Hollywood, or even the two Chinese co producers taking risks on casting with. It's a calculated decision on their parts. And you better believe they do testing to see the reaction of viewers as others here have stated.
I struggle to think of a Japanese actress that could have filled the role and pulled numbers or name recognition in a meaningful way.
Who would you guys have cast?
MugiwaraCole
Member
SuperStiltzkin
Member
It doesn't matter what fucking city it takes place in. It doesn't matter how lore friendly it is.
IN THIS MOVIE:
This is my problem with the movie trying to take some kind of self aware moral highground just because it lampshades its own whitewashing.
IN THIS MOVIE:
There is a Japanese girl. Named Motoko Kusanagi. Who has an Asian mother. Who knows her by Motoko Kusanagi so it's not a fucking alias. Whose brain gets put in Scarjo body. And Scarjo and Asian mother embrace.
This is my problem with the movie trying to take some kind of self aware moral highground just because it lampshades its own whitewashing.
An Asian "ghost" in a white body is still a white savior. The face of Asian victimization is this white heroine. Contrast this with Get Out where the main protagonist is black and also fighting against a body swap plot.
andythinkpad
Member
I have owned GITS manga since the mid 90s. And I am Asian.
I am ok with it.
I am ok with it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
We're talking a small percentage of white people.
I never took Mira Killian as a Japanese name.
Rinko Kuchki who played mako from Pacific Rim. I thought she would be great casting for this. But oh well now I guess.
You're aware those names are Spanish and most Spaniards are white?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I'm Asian American and I own the 95 movie and GitS Innocence and SAC. I'm not okay with it.
I would have kept Scarjo, but tossed out that stupid self congratulatory plot point. OR make
her previous life be as some other white girl.
WrenchNinja
Member
Anyone who kept playing apologist for this movie for the last year or so, I hope you enjoy the egg on your face.
Same. Maybe resist the urge to make comparisons if it's also one of the big reveals in that movie?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
That name could speak for a larger demographic of latinos and hispanics, but that's beside the point.
smileyforall220
Member
I guess my disagreement with this topic is the conclusion that since Japan/Hong Kong is predominately "Asian", then the characters are as well. Anime exists in a weird area where European elements are occasionally brought in and included. Even the original ghost in the shell movie had Americans as characters. I guess I see the shells as capable of being anyone since that is what they are, hollow bodies that things are put into.
Oh, well, I guess there's no issue
You haven't even seen the movie, have you?
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
No 'kinda' about it. She knew those words were a lie. Lost a lot of respect for her now.
Considering the movie never refers to him as Hadley Cruz, yeah, I can't imagine who proofread Bleeding Cool's hot-ass take. Maybe they slapped it together by watching some CinemaSins copycat channels.
Dash_Riprock
Member
At this point, I doubt he has ever seen any non-US film...
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I bet hollywood uses that line all the time when providing bullshit excuses for white washing. "Well, there are some white people born in Japan!" So not only can white actors have access to any role they want and have countless roles written for them, they can also play minorities under the pretense of "immigrant" and "mixed race."
BronsonLee
Member
Yeah I saw this and thought it was actually a pretty interesting take since the mom would've clearly recognized her if she wasn't white
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It perpetuates the whole "white people can be anything" motive.
Well that's the question right? Hamfisted handling or not, if they originally wrote the script to be what it turned out to be, is it? Granted, I think the writers probably thought themselves a lot wittier than they actually were in the end, but the "white devilry" of this movie doesn't work if Mira Killian, specifically MIRA KILLIAN, is Asian. If Mira Killian is asian, then the twist, the big moment of the movie, becomes just as deluded as the other 2 dozen concepts from the source material that are referenced but ultimately ignored due to time and the need for explosions.
GITS is sticky because, as we've said, the source material spends a lot of time focusing on the fact that people's original selves, their personal cultures, mean very little when they are literally selling away their humanity in order to be something more. The movie never goes into race, probably because the original never did, and for the twist to really stick, they should have. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that the ending was any big sort of brilliant moment, it's not, it's pretty poorly done. But with the script being how it was, that twist doesn't work any other way.
That being said, this is still whitewashing because, at the end of the day, they didn't HAVE to do the movie this way. When I say real ass whitewashing, I mean that people have look at the idea of whitewashing and have a real conversation about it, rather than just being able to handwave it off by saying "yeah but plot though." Saying, "this movie is bad because it stars scarlet johannsen when it could have starred an asian woman" is a bad argument, because it ignores what the movie tries to do. And if you ignore that, then your point is that racial norms should stay what they are simply because that's the way they've always been dicated. Inclusion doesn't matter because source material is just as destructive as white people being cast makes things more believable. The conversation is greater than that.
Japan population
japanese 98.5%
Koreans 0.5%
Chinese 0.4%
other 0.6% (large group in this other are Brazilians & Peruvian = most japanese descendants)
99.4% (at minimum) is easy to pass as japanese if you see a picture only. Try get non eastern asian looking actors to act in japanese a movie.
Count Dookkake
Member
Pretty clever.
smileyforall220
Member
I have, both of the films and the live action ones. The originals are classics, even if they break many storytelling rules by being extremely exposition heavy. I thought the live action one was ok, visuals and music were good as well as acting from the side characters, particularly the head of major's combat group, loved the actor in some of his previous films. ScarJo looks somewhat like major but her acting is meh, the script didn't go out of its way to help her. Your point?
That's unfortunate, but I've been telling you people to see
Get Out
The main character in the anime was Japanese. No question. It was a Japanese film with a Japanese protagonist with a Japanese (yes) name. I would assume she was meant to look Japanese as well.
Trying to put this into context for everyone jumping to defend or rationalize this (whom I imagine have very little experience with actual persecution and marginalization). Imagine if the hero in the cartoon was black and they cast a white actress, justifying it with sci-fi bullshit.
I just use the black analogy because even Hollywood understands that's a no-no, but for some reason there's a double standard with Asians.
Trying to put this into context for everyone jumping to defend or rationalize this (whom I imagine have very little experience with actual persecution and marginalization). Imagine if the hero in the cartoon was black and they cast a white actress, justifying it with sci-fi bullshit.
I just use the black analogy because even Hollywood understands that's a no-no, but for some reason there's a double standard with Asians.
Minorities literally having their bodies taken away so whites can be the hero.
I agree that the Major is (ethnically) Japanese, but that comparison was badly chosen.
But why are the European scientists in Japan/or an Asian country? Why are they making a European looking cyborg in a highly homogenised society. Like she's a Spy or whatever surely they would want her to blend in at least a little bit.
Why arent they worried about her suffering some sort of body dis-morphia or having psychological issue with her appearance being changed so dramatically.
...It's not supposed to be.
The Strokes
Banned
Just let this movie die, it's already bombed horribly. Give your attention to movies that deserve it.
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