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[Malyse]

Please don't go see Ghost in the Shell. It's really not good.
Go see Power Rangers. Or Beauty and the Beast. Or Kong.
Just not this.

 

[Loudninja]

Just let this movie die, it's already bombed horribly. Give your attention to movies that deserve it.

This stuff needs to be discuss since it keeps happening.

 

[BronsonLee]

Btw this movie is fine, real good visuals but plot is meh

The only interesting part is really this bit

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Diversity is what you do in the background of the story of the film, not in the casting of the show.

As a Japanese American I was still on the fence on whether i'd see it cuz I honestly liked the trailer. Maybe I'll watch Get Out again and then sneak into it after.

What?

Did you literally just say that diversity in casting should only be relegated to nonessential roles? Really?

 

[Jotaka]

The main character in the anime was Japanese. No question. It was a Japanese film with a Japanese protagonist with a Japanese (yes) name. I would assume she was meant to look Japanese as well

Anime/Manga - set in Japan, in japanese city, in a japanese government organization... the main character with japanese name is ............ white.... lol /s

 

[Mesoian]

But why are the European scientists in Japan/or an Asian country? Why are they making a European looking cyborg in a highly homogenised society. Like she's a Spy or whatever surely they would want her to blend in at least a little bit.

Why arent they worried about her suffering some sort of body dis-morphia or having psychological issue with her appearance being changed so dramatically.

These are all excellent questions that would be answered in a better movie.

Seriously, the "1 year later" thing at the beginning made me scoff, as if anyone is going to be used to a prostetic body to the point where they can be used in paramilitary operations within a year. Hell, in the source material they talk about that AT LENGTH, why Motoko is so good about being a cyborg, how she became so proficient in mechanical movement. And this movie waves it off like "naw it's fine anyone can do it."

 

[Not]

What?

Did you literally just say that diversity in casting should only be relegated to nonessential roles? Really?

I think he's purposefully speaking in the voice of the people who made this decision.

 

[PInk Tape]

I couldn't believe what I was reading when I saw the twist via that one tweet timeline.

I'm glad that I didn't support this cuz wow that is so tone deaf and offensive to Japanese American and other Asian American actors.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Hahahahahaha. Looks like my justification for wanting this movie to crash and burn rang true. As an asian american I sincerely declare, "Fuck this movie."

 

[smileyforall220]

At this point, I doubt he has ever seen any non-US film...

Appreciate the snide comments, I'm a big fan of New World and I Saw the Devil from Korea, all of Stephen chows work, many different Japanese directors like Kirasawa, etc. Also love Wong-Kar-Wai's work as well as my favorite director Johnnie To. Is your insult meant to imply something?

 

[Zero315]

I struggle to think of a Japanese actress that could have filled the role and pulled numbers or name recognition in a meaningful way.

Who would you guys have cast?

Here we go again...

At the end of the day it doesn't matter because apparently ScarJo couldn't "pull in the numbers" either. The movie is on track for a 20 million dollar opening weekend which will put it in either third or fourth place.

 

[jorgeton]

But why are the European scientists in Japan/or an Asian country? Why are they making a European looking cyborg in a highly homogenised society. Like she's a Spy or whatever surely they would want her to blend in at least a little bit.

Why arent they worried about her suffering some sort of body dis-morphia or having psychological issue with her appearance being changed so dramatically.

But they're not in Japan? The film never says where they are. I took the city as a mixed metropolis. All kinds of people from all kinds of races.

 

[Mesoian]

Please don't go see Ghost in the Shell. It's really not good.
Go see Power Rangers. Or Beauty and the Beast. Or Kong.
Just not this.

I mean, those are also not good movies.

Go see Get Out. Already seen it? Go see it again.

 

[Pops Maellard]

But why are the European scientists in Japan/or an Asian country? Why are they making a European looking cyborg in a highly homogenised society. Like she's a Spy or whatever surely they would want her to blend in at least a little bit.

Why arent they worried about her suffering some sort of body dis-morphia or having psychological issue with her appearance being changed so dramatically.

Because they give zero fucks about her. They never intended her to be anything more than a Robocop style figure.

Spoiler

They lie to her about her past, give met medication that subdues the memories, et cetera.

 

[Tom Nook]

Ugh!

Just saw the movie. Yeah....

 

[Shouta]

Movie spoilers at the end

Spoiler

I laughed so hard when major saw her name as motoko and kuze as hideo. Like for me it felt so random for a sec cause it looked like they read names on a random wall and thought "yeah that's my name"

That isn't very random at all actually. Most folks will get it through the interactions but that scene specifically shows

Spoiler

that Motoko and Hideo were a couple before getting taken away for the experiments. That stuff on the wall is meant to show that.

The only thing they took from the Kuze of 2nd gig was his connection to Motoko. Otherwise, it's nothing like his original iteration

 

[Mesoian]

Just let this movie die, it's already bombed horribly. Give your attention to movies that deserve it.

I mean, naw man. Let this movie continue to be the focal point when it comes to the conversation on White Washing. It's a real conversation that needs to be had. Let's just not discount that conversation to be "scarjo was the major so the movie sucks." It's bigger than that.

 

[Moonkid]

That's unfortunate, but I've been telling you people to see Get Out for months. That movie is too good to sleep on.

Not all of us live in the states Comes out in May for NZ.

 

[smileyforall220]

Trying to put this into context for everyone jumping to defend or rationalize this (whom I imagine have very little experience with actual persecution and marginalization). Imagine if the hero in the cartoon was black and they cast a white actress, justifying it with sci-fi bullshit.

I just use the black analogy because even Hollywood understands that's a no-no, but for some reason there's a double standard with Asians.

I agree that there is a big problem with diversity in films in America, since our population is fairly diverse. Speaking to the first point though, one example that comes to mind is green lantern. The original is white, but the animated justice league is black, and I much prefer that new concept over the old one.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Why does it matter what race she was, I don't see colour!

We need to cast a white person to increase the financial viability of this massive box office bomb.

Other excuses.

 

[Mesoian]

Not all of us live in the states Comes out in May for NZ.

JESUS CHRIST how horrifying.

My condolences then. You should still see it, it's the best horror movie of the past 20 years.

Why does it matter what race she was, I don't see colour!

We need to cast a white person to increase the financial viability of this massive box office bomb.

Other excuses.

SEe this is the bummer because there's more here than that.

I'll have that conversation with you about The Wall though.

 

[Haly]

I struggle to think of a Japanese actress that could have filled the role and pulled numbers or name recognition in a meaningful way.

Who would you guys have cast?

So far ScarJo isn't exactly pulling numbers, domestically. International will be different but at that point do you really even need the GITS name anymore?

The sooner we leave behind this "big name actors pull numbers" mindset behind the better. The justifications for it always cherry picked/circular.

Big name actor in movie does well: Must be because of the actor
Big name actor in movie does poorly: It was a bad movie, the actor couldn't have saved it
No name actor in movie does well: It was a really good movie that's going to put no name actor on the map
No name actor in movie does poorly: Well, no one knew who the lead was

It might've been true in the 80s or 90s. It doesn't seem to be true now.

 

[B.K.]

I haven't seen the movie and don't know that I will, but I think they shouldn't have really gone into the Major's past. It really isn't necessary. Giving her a backstory was the worst part of 2nd Gig.

 

[BronsonLee]

I haven't seen the movie and don't know that I will, but I think they shouldn't have really gone into the Major's past. It really isn't necessary. Giving her a backstory was the worst part of 2nd Gig.

Why would I care about the character then

 

[MHWilliams]

I mean, it is...But you're right, that means nothing.

Get ready though, Death Note is coming, and if you're mad about white washing here, you will be LIVID on that one.

Death Note transplants the entire story to the US. Pacific Northwest to be clear. It has more in common with Edge of Tomorrow or the Departed, than the half-step this film ends up going with.

I struggle to think of a Japanese actress that could have filled the role and pulled numbers or name recognition in a meaningful way.

Who would you guys have cast?

Chicken-egg problem. You struggle to think because Asian or Asian-American actresses are not given the chance to prove that they can anchor a film. Your argument is Scarlett Johansson is a far more amazing actress than a potential Japanese choice, I disagree. If your argument is ScarJo has star power, that's in part to the current Hollywood studio system. This is why folks in the US have issues with whitewashing in the first place.

With GITS in particular, native Japanese won't have an issue because their studio system already adapts their own stories with Japanese talent. The losers here at Asian-American actors, who don't get leading roles or rarely get supporting roles because they are Asian and automatically "other". And it's certainly not an issue with starring roles needing big stars, because studios will take chances on white actors all the time. It's so common that we have a list of actors studios will not stop cramming down our throats, despite it being proven that they either can act, or can't anchor a film. Jai Courtney, Sam Worthington, Taylor Kitsch, Armie Hammer, Jack Huston. You can do this all day because it's so true.

 

[smileyforall220]

But they're not in Japan? The film never says where they are. I took the city as a mixed metropolis. All kinds of people from all kinds of races.

To add to this point it feels a lot more like China/Hong Kong with many characters and background people of south Eastern Asia descent in the original.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

I mean, naw man. Let this movie continue to be the vocal point when it comes to the conversation on White Washing. It's a real conversation that needs to be had. Let's just not discount that conversation to be "scarjo was the major so the movie sucks." It's bigger than that.

Yeah, I've been hugely critical of the movie. But let me state, I am fine with Scarjo's casting as Mira Killian. But

Spoiler

not as Motoko Kusanagi

. Them trying to cover their asses and play off a business casting decision as some biting self aware social commentary is condescending as hell.

 

[Mesoian]

I haven't seen the movie and don't know that I will, but I think they shouldn't have really gone into the Major's past. It really isn't necessary. Giving her a backstory was the worst part of 2nd Gig.

I really liked her backstory in second gig. It was just vague enough to continue the mystery but sharp enough to give you real incite on why she's so good.

Regardless, with the way the script was, it makes sense for the story they tried to tell. That story just isn't very good.

 

[Moonkid]

If they had removed the twist the whitewashing would still be awful, just not as overtly so.

JESUS CHRIST how horrifying.

My condolences then. You should still see it, it's the best horror movie of the past 20 years.

Oh I definitely will, I love Daniel Kaluuya and the reviews have been pretty stellar.

 

[hirokazu]

I have, both of the films and the live action ones. The originals are classics, even if they break many storytelling rules by being extremely exposition heavy. I thought the live action one was ok, visuals and music were good as well as acting from the side characters, particularly the head of major's combat group, loved the actor in some of his previous films. ScarJo looks somewhat like major but her acting is meh, the script didn't go out of its way to help her. Your point?

You don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about in reference to this movie. You say the film is set in Japan. The film never says where it's set, let alone Japan. The signage is a mix of Japanese and Chinese (contrast with GitS '95, where it was just wholesale based on Hong Kong).

You say all the characters have Japanese names, but that doesn't mean they necessarily have to be Japanese. Except the only characters with obviously Asian names or are played by Asians in this movie have a relatively small roles. The important, plot-driving roles are predominantly played by white people with names to reflect. And then we have

Spoiler

Mira Killian, who very obviously doesn't have a Japanese name until the twist.

My point is all this suggests to me you haven't even seen the film and have NFI what you're talking about and yet you're trying to defend it for some reason, and the reasons you give to justify your position aren't even true in the first place.

 

[Hagi]

I agree that there is a big problem with diversity in films in America, since our population is fairly diverse. Speaking to the first point though, one example that comes to mind is green lantern. The original is white, but the animated justice league is black, and I much prefer that new concept over the old one.

They just used a different character though, they didn't just make Hal Jordan black. Really what they should have done here instead of this asian twist.

 

[Mesoian]

Let's talk about the real injustice of this movie:

"Major" is a code name and not a rank for Motoko. Fuck these people.

I'm out.

 

[Malyse]

I mean, those are also not good movies.

Go see Get Out. Already seen it? Go see it again.

Those movies at the least push something forward. Other than my bile. And LOL OPINIONS, but they are being recieved a hell of a lot better than this shit.

 

[smileyforall220]

You don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about in reference to this movie. The film never says where it's set, let alone Japan. The signage is a mix of Japanese and Chinese (contrast with GitS '95, where it was just wholesale based on Hong Kong). The characters with obviously Asian names or are played by Asians in this movie have a very small role. The important, plot-driving roles are predominantly played by white people with names to reflect. And then we have Mira Killian, who very obviously doesn't have a Japanese name until the twist.

My point is all this suggests to me you haven't even seen the film and have NFI what you're talking about and yet you're trying to defend it for some reason.

? I literally just described my feelings on the recent live action film since you asked if I had seen it. Not sure why you are so hostile. I've seen the original 2 movies and the recent live action one to reiterate since you lack reading comprehension.

I've even mentioned in some of my other replies that I think it's set in Hong Kong/China/ Kowloon city.

 

[kewlmyc]

Reposting my opinion from the Double Toasted thread.

Having seen the movie, it comes off as the writers trying to remedy the producers forcing them to have ScarJo in the movie as the main character and still be set in the anime/manga GiTS movie universe. It's awkward as fuck, but it does at least fit the universe and the story they're trying to tell aka "The people who built you didn't give a fuck about who you were beforehand."

YMMV on if you accept it or not. The people in the theater I went to didn't seem to mind, but clearly, it has pissed off a lot of people. I feel the movie would have done way better review wise if those scenes weren't in the movie at all and they just kept her as "Mira Killian". You could go with what the new Death Note is doing and just have it be an western reimagining of the story.

 

[TheSeks]

It is incredible the way they fumbled it. All they had to do is leave it alone.

Exactly. The fact they addressed it and explained it even worse just makes the controversy even more terrible.

 

[Staccat0]

I hope I didn't just read a very poorly disguised spoiler for

Spoiler

Get Out

in this thread. Bummer if so. Having a kid is rough on my movie life, haha.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Can't wait for the sequel

 

[Calabi]

But they're not in Japan? The film never says where they are. I took the city as a mixed metropolis. All kinds of people from all kinds of races.

Well I havent seen the film but why do the locations look so asian then.

 

[LordOfLore]

To think they were planning to use technology to make ScarJo look more japanese in post.

 

[hirokazu]

? I literally just described my feelings on the recent live action film since you asked if I had seen it. Not sure why you are so hostile. I've seen the original 2 movies and the recent live action one to reiterate since you lack reading comprehension.

No, I'm calling you out because they reasons you give for defending the film aren't actually true and would be obviously if somebody had seen the film. I can't prove whether you've seen it or not, but You say you've seen it. Okay. So you either have really poor memory of the film or you're just as tone deaf as the people who though the plot twist was a good idea I suppose.

 

[Shouta]

Well I havent seen the film but why do the locations look so asian then.

Because there's more than just Japan in Asia?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Can't wait for the sequel

Don't nobody wanna fuck with that. Marvel buried that deep under the rug.

 

[smileyforall220]

No, I'm calling you out because they reasons you give for defending the film aren't actually true and would be obviously if somebody had seen the film. I can't prove whether you've seen it or not, but You say you've seen it. Okay. So you either have really poor memory of the film or you're just as tone deaf as the people who though the plot twist was a good idea I suppose.

Character assadination is a really poor form of debate I must say. You have yet to refute my main arguments, rather just just using insults. No reason to be so hostile, it's just a simple discussion. What do you find factually incorrect about my statements?

 

[Trago]

Reposting my opinion from the Double Toasted thread.

Having seen the movie, it comes off as the writers trying to remedy the producers forcing them to have ScarJo in the movie as the main character and still be set in the anime/manga GiTS movie universe. It's awkward as fuck, but it does at least fit the universe and the story they're trying to tell aka "The people who built you didn't give a fuck about who you were beforehand."

YMMV on if you accept it or not. The people in the theater I went to didn't seem to mind, but clearly, it has pissed off a lot of people. I feel the movie would have done way better review wise if those scenes weren't in the movie at all and they just kept her as "Mira Killian". You could go with what the new Death Note is doing and just have it be an western reimagining of the story.

That's my take on all this as well. I don't think the filmmakers and Director had any shady intent here. I went back and read some interviews, I get the impression that he really wanted this to work, but really, it was a lose-lose situation in my eyes. In hindsight, I'd have felt better if they just kept her as Mira and not get into the backstory that they did, or at least go with something different.

I guess it goes to show that Hollywood executives would make some of the dumbest decisions to make sure they can sell tickets in their eyes.

 

[Zero315]

To think they were planning to use technology to make ScarJo look more japanese in post.

Paramount said they weren't testing it on her, just a "background actor".

Which, even if that's true that it was just a background actor, is still not a good look.

 

[Aztechnology]

Rinko Kuchki who played mako from Pacific Rim. I thought she would be great casting for this. But oh well now I guess.

I'd argue she doesn't have much name power at all and while she has good command of the English language her accent Poor's through pretty heavily and it affects the emotion and delivery of her lines. Not that Scarjo blew it away by any means -_- . I know it seems silly and petty. But it does bother American audiences at least.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Sooooo, not only have my worst fears/totally realistic expectations for this movie been confirmed but, thanks to a couple of people being completely useless at spoiler tags I've been spoiled on a different movie that I actually wanted to watch.

 

[MHWilliams]

I find it interesting how people talk about a spoiler, without any real context mind you, but also mention it in their posts.

If you think it's a spoiler, don't mention it, eh?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

That's my take on all this as well. I don't think the filmmakers and Director had any shady intent here. I went back and read some interviews, I get the impression that he really wanted this to work, but really, it was a lose-lose situation in my eyes. In hindsight, I'd have felt better if they just kept her as Mira and not get into the backstory that they did, or at least go with something different.

I guess it goes to show that Hollywood executives would make some of the dumbest decisions to make sure they can sell tickets in their eyes.

YEah I don't think there's any ill intent. Just like there's no ill intent when I was told by my classmate I was smart and then followed up with it having to do with my race. They probably thought they were paying me a compliment. But you know what? I'd rather have no compliment than that compliment.