SteveWinwood
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oh you
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Giant Bomb #6 | You'd be hard pressed to find 10 better threads this year.
- Thread starter Hot Coldman
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I personally don't see it. I just watched a duo S rank run and the combat system basically amounts to setting up melee kills, and not in very interesting ways. Like waiting forever until the enemy's attack animation ends so it can be countered by hitting LT or by stunning an enemy and then hitting LT so a canned melee animation can start. I know there's rolling and sliding which can be cool I suppose but is this really "levels above any other TPS out there"?
It's kinda weird. I really like the combat in RE4 and RE5 (and I realize how Mercs in those games was basically setting up melee kills too) but I just don't see it with RE6's combat.
I did play a couple chapters of the campaign (and yes, I did read the thread on how to play the game properly) a few months ago on PC but neither the combat nor the story was intersting to me so I lost interest pretty quckly.
Riposte
Member
Beyond making the mistake of judging an action game based on a video (i.e., ignoring what it feels like to counter in the middle of battle*, etc.), you are talking about one or two elements of combat (not very well, I would say), but what's impressive about RE6, and why someone may say it stands out from other TPS, is the amount of elements and how they interact with each other and the highly varied enemies (this include co-op, btw). I would argue the score-obsessed mercs runs only using the most optimized time-gaining action loop outside a few interesting moments are actually not the best representations, but rather the more creative or aggressive ones (same with games like Bayonetta, etc). It is most fun when you are exploring the combat system on the fly (especially in the low difficulty setting of Mercs, as opposed to No Hope in Campaign).
It is nice to see them jump on the Souls train, but I don't think you can hope for Brad to just jump into RE6 and have a good time. At the least you'd need to convince them that RE6 is fun beyond just some text description by fan. Dark Souls seemed to take more than that.
* A judgement call people can just as easily make for Dark Souls' riposte or Metal Gear Rising's parry.
EDIT: Also RE4/RE5 merc videos can be just as repetitive, trust me.
EDIT: RE6 is probably a lost cause, for most of the game journos of the world anyway, but getting the Giant Bomb guys on the Monster Hunter train could be an interesting experience for them and probably a good source of video content if they rock it with four of their dudes.
Chance Hale
Member
The melee animations aren't really canned, they differ depending on the amount of stamina you have at the time, the speed at which you approach the enemy and the direction from which you start it as well as the weapon you're using. It also changes based upon the enemy at which appendages they have left. Every single part of the body has separate health and enemies change based on how you kill them. Certain enemies will mutate if you blow off an arm for example, making them much harder to defeat. When you add in the incredible amount of movement options such as rolling, sliding(which opens up separate stun states and combo opportunities) you have an incredible combat system that no other game can really match up to. The counters you mention are only one way to either put an enemy into a stun state or instakill them if they're fodder. Keep in mind this is all just various melee options, the shooting itself is incredibly satisfying. One of my favorite things in the game is the quickshot which basically targets the nearest enemy instantly and serves to clear ground or open up a stun state. The amazing thing is how all of these systems mesh up together, it really is something special and I hope the next-game really explains these systems or at the very least doesn't get rid of them.
There's really nothing like jumping backwards to avoid an attack, pushing yourself off the ground to do a 180 and take out the guy behind you before rolling to the side and taking out the original one as well.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
RE 6 has plenty of depth, but I never really enjoyed it as much as the more limited RE 4 and 5 combat systems. I'll always be predisposed to the amazing things people could do with RE 4 Mercs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqLSsNp1WQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnqLSsNp1WQ
grandwizard
Member
I think RE6 is a lost cause amongst the game journo crowd, the thrashing they gave it on release is too much to come back from. I do hope that them getting more into stuff like Dark/Demon's souls is some progress toward them realizing that you can't just judge something by first impressions when you have no idea what the mechanics are or how they work. That kind of criticism is what leads to homogenized genres and 'safe' games that don't take any risks and play 99% like every other game you've played.
The part in the RE6 Quick Look where Brad keeps getting hit by the jumping attack enemy and complains that there are no ways to avoid it, then shrugs off Jeff's suggestion to dodge or duck it will always seared into my brain :/
It doesn't matter how good the mechanics of RE6 are when everything surrounding it is hot garbage. Being fun in Mercenaries mode is nice and all, but there's 1 campaign that is this silly Gear of War wannabee. Another of the campaigns is full of dumb action movie set pieces. The third campaign is melodramatic nonsense that tries to recapture the magic of RE3 by having this giant monster chase you around, but comes off more as forgettable. Add to that a ton of glitches, terrible QTEs (I get that the QTE issue is sort of fixed now, but we're talking about what the press played at launch), terrible pacing, no sense of shared vision across the board, and just an overall blandness.
That game very much deserved the beating that it got from the press, because it is the epitome of one of the major issues with the way these big games are developed. Throwing a ton of money and people at a project does not mean instant success.
That game very much deserved the beating that it got from the press, because it is the epitome of one of the major issues with the way these big games are developed. Throwing a ton of money and people at a project does not mean instant success.
Chance Hale
Member
Chris's campaign is only action heavy for the first two chapters and builds towards gradually isolating you from your team. It's hardly a Gears rip off in any case considering the first two chapters deal very heavily with large squad combat, ie you have 5-10 soldiers+ with you at the time.
Jake's campaign does have the monster following you throughout but otherwise doesn't really try to replicate Resident Evil 3's tactics at all. In fact Jake's campaign is the most gloriously offbeat in the entire game, with both chapter 2 and 3 bringing forth completely new mechanics that aren't used elsewhere but are developed enough to work within their contexts. The mirror's edge third chapter is a great example of how odd and perhaps even disjointed the game can be but also how diverse it manages to be. Plus it has one of my favorite coop moments in gaming. Not sure how it's really melodramatic either, of course Resie 6's story as a whole is pretty trashy but if anything Jake's campaign serves as a big buddy cop movie.
Leon's campaign starts out the worst by far as the first chapter is filled with QTEs and slow walking but it's ditched quickly and has some of the tenser moments in the game and a suite of great bosses. It also makes you use the sliding and crawling mechanics to a greater degree which was quite enjoyable.
Game was also never glitchy, and the QTEs no worse than of the other Resident Evil games since 4 but that's irrelevant anyway since they patched them out as an option. When you consider how different they made each character in terms of attack animations, special weapons(Sherry's stun rod, jake's first, unique weapons, etc) it really stands as a pretty great set of campaigns overall despite the amount of fat that could have been cut. Ada's feels like it has the most reused assets but the stealth elements set it apart and her final boss is pretty neat.
I think the game will be reevaluated eventually, really is an incredible action game both in the campaign and mercenaries mode which lets you unleash the mechanics to their fullest potential. Also, most of the game's most violent critical thrasings showed clear misunderstanding of combat mechanics so even with the campaign's disjointness it wasn't the main criticism. People tried to play it like Gears and had a terrible time for it.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
ShockingAlberto
Member
I like how that epiphany is "Yo, it's a piece of game design."
I can definitely see how people associate bad feelings with it.
If you're used to action games that move at a fast speed, getting hit while you're trying to hit the other person might elicit a "Fuck, I hit the button!" reaction and just get turned off from the whole thing.
There were plenty of glitches. I ran into a bunch of them. The most glaring example is the time where you fight that monster while it hangs from helicopters during Jake's campaign. On three occasions, the monster would hang on to the helicopter on the left and just stay there and never die. I would sit there unloading on it with the mounted gatling gun for minutes straight and eventually had to give up and restart. I just about completely gave up on the game there, but got through it on my forth try.
And about the QTEs, it wasn't bad enough that they just existed, but then you have the ones like the end of the Jake and Sherry campaign where you have to alternate the button presses, but what the screen was showing had nothing to do with what you were actually supposed to press.
I also love the parts where the camera would force a perspective change in the middle of combat vs a bunch of enemies because a cut scene was triggered. That part in the snow with the ice ramp that took ages to recover from after you slid down? That was great stuff! Also can't forget about those parts where you have to solve the amazing puzzle of shoot all the bad guys so you can pick up what they dropped and put it into that slot! That's classy stuff right there...
I get that the game does have merit in some places, but that doesn't stop me from seeing the other glaring issues surrounding the game.
#followthesouls
I like the idea that everyone at Giant Bomb is the exact inverse of their site personalities when the camera's off. Patrick's stuffing his face with gorditas and screaming racist insults into his 360 headset as he plays CoD multi, Jeff's eating vegan snacks as completes his fifth playthrough of Red Dead Redemption while waiting for the DotA queue, etc.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Oh I don't begrudge people if they don't like it. Everyone has different tastes in what they like. It's that I remember him describing how he came to understand the animation priority of MH as "I realised that it's not bad, it's just that it was designed differently."(I could be paraphrasing or misremembering)
I thought, "No shit."
Still, glad to see that he enjoyed the games. I doubt that you can ever convert jeff though, but that's fine.
Chance Hale
Member
Haven't encountered that in any of my playthoughs but it's a bummer. The snow ramp is actually one of my favorite bits in the game because it makes you stop and consider your movement options. Rather than slide like you've been doing you have to simply sprint forward without getting the urge to roll. Or you can shoot the enemy on the snowmobile and ride it up. Very easy to get past.
And there are a few areas where you have to kill a group of enemies to progress, welcome to every single action game ever made? If anything the game is unique amongst the genre because often enough you can run past certain groups because it doesn't lock you into the battle before progression. The exception being Chris's campaign near the beginning where you're defending your group and the few instances where you need a key to progress.
Edit: Now that I remember more clearly the game never locks you into an area. The key parts you speak of are when you're being chased by various monsters, you just find them in the environment. Although of course it often becomes easier to kill or disable the enemies in question lest you get overwhelmed.
WrenchNinja
Member
No, that shows that they made varied characters. That's it. That doesn't say anything about the campaigns. The campaigns are total garbage. Theyre poorly designed throughout the whole, especially Jake and Leon. The only saving grace this game has is its combat system, and it's only really capable of being put to the test in Mercs.
Chance Hale
Member
You took one part of the paragraph, I was saying when you combine the differentiated characters with their respective campaigns that vary wildly you get a diverse package that's good more often than bad. And I disagree that they're poorly designed as I've stated in other comments but oh well. Each one uses the character's respective abilities in some really unique, fun ways and given the diversity in the campaigns I think that's pretty impressive. Multiple ways to talk out each boss, areas that take advantage of the movement options, unique uses of coop mechanics, and so on. Leon's campaign is the only one I'd say that has purely terrible moments and that's primarily in the first chapter when they force you to slowly walk but that's dropped halfway through and the other four are free of such nonsense. Other major point of annoyance is the first two chapters in Chris's campaign often switch the camera while you're fighting as mentioned by man which can be a bit frustrating.
In any case, giantbomb is a cool site!
If someone wants to get Drew a nice Valentines day gift... http://www.crunchyroll.com/store/p/85790/Llama-Sweet-Heart-Alpaca-7-Prime-Plush-White
WrenchNinja
Member
And I disagree. Diversity and variety by itself aren't nice. Being hit by trucks and trains aren't fun, fighting bullet sponge bosses consecutively isn't fun, being thrown into a turret sequence isn't fun, being lost in a blizzard looking for collectibles with a very poor way point marker isn't fun, running up an icy mountain only to be shot once and forced down isn't fun, random vehicle sections aren't fun, random stealth sections aren't fun, etc
That's Leon 1, 2, 4, 5, Jake 2, 3, 4, Chris 4, and I can't even remember what even happened in Adas campaign. Most of these do not use character unique abilities or even involve getting into the nuances of the combat
Chance Hale
Member
The trains are clearly marked both visually and via audio so being hit by one is your own fault. Now the ambulance is not marked at all except for the second or two before it comes so getting hit by that is very likely but I found it so sudden that I couldn't help but laugh. Only part in the game like that though. And Leon's chapter 2 has the laser rooms which have you use the slide and roll options quite a bit but there's no real reason to go step by step and try to argue each mission in the game. Most of the unique scenarios in the game have quite a bit of diversity in how they can be approached or use the mechanics in interesting ways, it's just not always clearly marked. Perhaps it should have been but oh well, thought the campaigns were incredibly diverse for game within the genre and managed to pull things together in ways that kept things fresh throughout. Not to mention the really impressive intersection points that I don't think any other game has done something similar to.
In any case, the case remains that at the very least most people didn't understand how to use any of the mechanics in the game and it was often criticized as something it wasn't. Think that's still clearly going on here but what can one do.
In any case, the case remains that at the very least most people didn't understand how to use any of the mechanics in the game and it was often criticized as something it wasn't. Think that's still clearly going on here but what can one do.
WrenchNinja
Member
No, its actually not my fault the QTES (or the fact the QTES are in the game at all) don't last long enough or that when a train is passing by, going slightly near it while still visibly on the other side triggers the death animation.
Sliding and rolling is unique to Leon?
I'm not misunderstanding RE6s campaigns. Please do not use the "you just don't get it" argument. I agree that people did not give the mechanics much of a chance, but I cannot blame them when the game is so bad at teaching you or even wanting you to use these mechanics when you're stuck with all of the crap you have to play through.
TumblingHippo
Member
So how long before there are more "Unfinished" videos than "Quicklooks"?
Is this the gaming future ahead of us? When will consoles games start appearing on that feature?
Is this the gaming future ahead of us? When will consoles games start appearing on that feature?
Chance Hale
Member
You said that stage didn't show off any of the game's mechanics. And the trains can be avoided by simply walking or jumping away from them, the qte only shows up if you are standing in front of one. There is no reason why you should realistically get hit unless you're faffing about.
And a game shouldn't have to walk you through every single mechanic or beg you to experiment. People have become so used to being baby sat through every possible thing that having a game that actually has options other than walk, cover, shoot is apparently mind-boggling. Still, I think Capcom really did fuck up completely by not including a manual or extensive tutorial like Vanquish has you go through at the beginning of the game. The reactions would have been much, much different.
Never? More finished games come out on steam every day than early access titles, it's not some terrible epidemic. They've got quite the backlog of games to go through though so I could certainly see there being more unfinished videos than quicklooks for a short period if they choose to go back to titles put up before the series started.
WrenchNinja
Member
I thought you were talking unique mechanics. Those aren't unique mechanics when everyone can do it. Leons unique ability is dual wielding, which surprise, is never needed.
You can't seriously be defending the qte trains. Please tell me how it's reasonable for a death animation to occur when you're not even touching the train. It's a ridiculous section. From 30 second mark onwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWesb0INltc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
A game should bother to teach you and force you to use at least some of the mechanics in the scenarios instead of putting you through the dumb irrelevant shit it does put you through. I didn't learn anything from Jake's campaign except for the fact that Capcom is really bad at making Uncharted.
Chance Hale
Member
It's not really a unique ability, he just uses two pistols and has a faster quickshot. Such differences are more noticeable in the mercenaries mode. And it seemed the game might have just glitched there, I've played that level 4 or 5 times and never died via the trains. You can simply move to the side, dodge away, and so on. Plus you can hear and see them coming a good couple seconds in advance. The QTEs there are always a last ditch "Do you want to live" that the game throw you. And Jake's segments aren't all that similar to uncharted, the only bit that's really similar is near the beginning where you run alongside the hill. Playing as him is a lot of fun though due to his hand to hand abilities and the fact that he can often get the upper ground on enemies by using the various poles. Plus you can take out a boss that way rather than having to wait it out.
We supposed to talk about Audiosurf 2
It started out as a general comment about animation priority and how I hope Patrick and the crew's experience with Monster Hunter would have them reevaluate Resident Evil 6's combat and it's turned into a discussion/defense of the campaign on my part. In any case, really enjoyed the game and thought it was nice to see a TPS that is actually highly skill based and does far more than simple cover based shooting. Hopefully Capcom has learned its lesson in not including tutorials when you make the most complex TPS out there.
Isn't it obvious?
Capcom realised Jeff is now for sale so they invaded the thread with astroturfers to drum up support for RE6 Breaking Brad.
Chance Hale
Member
Would buy two year's worth of subscriptions. No Hope mode.
Chance Hale
Member
Went back and watched the Castlevania: Lords of Shadow quicklook for nostalgia's sake as I just rebeat the game on the PC and it was odd hearing how awkward Jeff was in the video. Site has come a long way in terms of chemistry and production values. Also don't know what happened between the quick look and the professional fridays playthroughs a few years later. In the quick look Jeff is saying the game looked pretty cool and seemed pretty positive despite saying he considered Metrovania to be the defacto Castlevania formula in this age. Fast forward to the unprofessional friday and "4 people who care about this game" and so on.
Incandenza
Banned
And now it's time to compulsively refresh the store page until the signed poster goes back up.
I'm scared for Vinny's credit card, he has over $150 in blings on that The Mighty Quest unfinished look. The initial buy-in pack only gives you a fraction of that!
I've played the game since beta started and the f2p wall hits you late but it hits you hard as fuck. The game suddenly becomes the worst version anyone could come up with of farmville, unless you're willing to pony up some dough. I gave up on the game 4 or 5 months ago bcs of this.
I've played the game since beta started and the f2p wall hits you late but it hits you hard as fuck. The game suddenly becomes the worst version anyone could come up with of farmville, unless you're willing to pony up some dough. I gave up on the game 4 or 5 months ago bcs of this.
They most probably got free credits from Ubisoft to check out the game. Standard procedure from game publishers.
I haven't watched the QL, but I'm almost certain Vinny didn't spend $150 on Mighty Quest. Probably one of their Steam press accounts - F2P games usually include some in-game currency.
edit: Damn you to hell Megasoum
This is one of the best guests Bombin' has ever had. Very open about the entire development and publishing process of Thomas. Even trying his best to talk around contractual shit.
At some point major publishers and AAA devs are going to have to realise this is the type of relationship and connection to the audience they've got to compete with. You can't really fake it with a press blitz.
At some point major publishers and AAA devs are going to have to realise this is the type of relationship and connection to the audience they've got to compete with. You can't really fake it with a press blitz.
Mighty loot of whatever is in beta. You have to buy a pack to get in to the beta but the in game store isn't taking money yet. I am not sure how he got currency, if it is a press thing or part of the beta - but if it were a press thing he likely would not have had to buy his way in,
When he died and kept buying instant healing, he made a joke about his credit card being linked but even IOS freemium crap don't let you auto bill like that.
When he died and kept buying instant healing, he made a joke about his credit card being linked but even IOS freemium crap don't let you auto bill like that.
Absolutely, that was a fantastic segment and the dude was a great guest. Very open and engaging about it all with Patrick and Alex. The switch to adding guests on Mondays has been really good overall, segments like these are very worth it.
I also just installed the copy of Thomas Was Alone that I have on steam because of this so I can finally check it out.
Nah, I got in with a beta key and they gave out tons of beta keys when it first came out, plus the store IS indeed taking money. You can buy blings since day one. That's how I know how much he would have been charged for the amount of blings he had.
Screw a quick look, I need a weekly feature of Vinny playing this.
My mistake. Pretty sure vinny didn't spend money on blings (lol), he did mention buying the initial pack to get in though.
Well Pat initially asked potential guests to contact him in a tweet - so no coincidence.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
The show goes into overdrive of quality when a guest is on, too.
WrenchNinja
Member
The soul still burns
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