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Gorilla killed after dragging child at Cincinnati Zoo

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Fuck the people saying they would rather save their dog instead of someone's else's child.

Let's see how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

Fucking embarrassing.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Fuck the people saying they would rather save their dog instead of someone's else's child.

Let's see how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

Fucking embarrassing.

I'm fairly sure my dog would save me over someone else's child. She's a bitch thought so who knows.
 
This lynch mob mentality is very dangerous, the media clearly wants this family broken up. Why do people care so much about this gorilla I don't know, there are so many other tragedies in the world right now but people choose to concentrate on having a distressed mum persecuted for making a mistake. If people really cared about gorillas they would all be donating to wildlife sanctuaries in Africa to keep them out of harms way and zoos. Same type of people who cared about Cecil the lion no doubt, where are they now , they upped and moved on to the next thing to get pissed off about. I give this story another week before the next new issue comes about that requires a silly petition.
 
This lynch mob mentality is very dangerous, the media clearly wants this family broken up. Why do people care so much about this gorilla I don't know, there are so many other tragedies in the world right now but people choose to concentrate on having a distressed mum persecuted for making a mistake. If people really cared about gorillas they would all be donating to wildlife sanctuaries in Africa to keep them out of harms way and zoos. Same type of people who cared about Cecil the lion no doubt, where are they now , they upped and moved on to the next thing to get pissed off about. I give this story another week before the next new issue comes about that requires a silly petition.

this kind of shit seems to be blow up between racists on both sides. we need someone like MLK now more than ever.
 

Poona

Member
Fuck the people saying they would rather save their dog instead of someone's else's child.

Let's see how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

Fucking embarrassing.

If I was in trouble and so was someone's dog at the same time I would expect someone to put more priority on their dog over me, who is just some random person.
 

ElFly

Member
Is there anybody saying that kids never get lost? As has been pointed out by several parents in this thread, what is questionable is that it was in this specific, obviously caution-demanding environment that the parents lost track of the kid, and seemingly to take a picture with a cell phone, of all things, and weren't even aware the kid was gone until after the kid had fallen over the edge. It's not realistic to expect 100% perfection from parents, but that's a far cry from saying that there are certain situations where a lapse is not okay, and an open-air enclosure for 400-pound gorillas is one of them. If nobody else had any trouble with it in 38 years, the chances are the error is on the user.

This is ridiculous.

It is impossible that no little kids get separated from their parents every week in that Zoo for at least a few minutes. No parent is perfect 100% of the time. Kids get lost or are left unattended all the time.

So it is impossible that the Zoo doesn't accumulate several unattended-kids-hours every year. Are you willing to admit that possibility? That this stuff happens? Or are you going to pretend that this is the first time in 40 years that a kid is left unattended in the Cincinatti Zoo?

So why it remained safe for 40 years? Plain old luck. The fence preventing people from falling into the enclosure is ridiculous. The photo of it has been posted. So in all those times little kids were left unattended, well, one decided to climb and fell. The problem is not the parents, as I said, many kids must be left unattended in that zoo every year. Are you blaming every one of those parents too? Because clearly all of them played russian roulette with the possibility their kids didn't climb a flimsy fence and fell during the moments they weren't looking. Cause it was just dumb luck their kids didn't randomly decide to climb a fence. The only direct cause is that the Zoo security could not stop a 3 y/o from climbing and falling.

It is easy to blame the parents, but also it should be fucking crystal clear that, if a fence can be trivially and quickly climbed by a three year old kid, it is not secure, by definition.
 

akira28

Member
thankfully dogs can save themselves, leaving both your hands free to grab any babies in need of help. They're just awesome that way.
 
This lynch mob mentality is very dangerous, the media clearly wants this family broken up. Why do people care so much about this gorilla I don't know, there are so many other tragedies in the world right now but people choose to concentrate on having a distressed mum persecuted for making a mistake. If people really cared about gorillas they would all be donating to wildlife sanctuaries in Africa to keep them out of harms way and zoos. Same type of people who cared about Cecil the lion no doubt, where are they now , they upped and moved on to the next thing to get pissed off about. I give this story another week before the next new issue comes about that requires a silly petition.

People become bored with their mundane lives and feel the need to ruin others.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
How do we weigh a life's worth? There are far fewer Lowland Gorillas in the world so a male Silverback is more valuable to his species than a 4 year old kid when considering things like genetic diversity and the already scarce nature of the species. Then again the kid could achieve far more in his lifetime than a Gorilla, he could be the next Einstein or the next Obama, and vice versa he could also be the next John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy. So is this Gorilla worth more alive to his species continued presence on this planet than this kid will be valuable to society as he grows up?
 

aliengmr

Member
Is there anybody saying that kids never get lost? As has been pointed out by several parents in this thread, what is questionable is that it was in this specific, obviously caution-demanding environment that the parents lost track of the kid, and seemingly to take a picture with a cell phone, of all things, and weren't even aware the kid was gone until after the kid had fallen over the edge. It's not realistic to expect 100% perfection from parents, but that's a far cry from saying that there are certain situations where a lapse is not okay, and an open-air enclosure for 400-pound gorillas is one of them. If nobody else had any trouble with it in 38 years, the chances are the error is on the user.

It's a zoo, not a quest through a jungle. I guess after 38 year of no kids jumping into enclosures, you might think it was "safe". You are not going to be hyper vigilant about something that never happens.

No it isn't realistic to expect 100% perfection, but people still expect it. Like pointing out she was taking a picture like that is some major breach of protocol.

Don't worry though, half a million want her investigated by child services and charged, Cleveland PD has decided to do that too. She'll probably pay some how and everyone will fucking forget about the gorilla and move on to the next thing.

Both scenarios are different. A kid getting lost in a close and much safer environment like a museum is not the same as getting lost, jump a fence and get into a enclosure with a 400 pound gorilla.

They are the same, the outcome was different.
 
So i have just read that police are going to investigate the parents due to online pressure. What the fuck is wrong with people. Are parents going to start getting arrested if their kid runs off in the super market or runs out in the road.

Things with kids happen in split seconds and by all accounts that is what happened.

Jesus christ i'm fucking sick of the twitter police. They sit behind their keyboards with their prefect lives were they all have fucking halos and have never made a mistake.
 
How do we weigh a life's worth? There are far fewer Lowland Gorillas in the world so a male Silverback is more valuable to his species than a 4 year old kid when considering things like genetic diversity and the already scarce nature of the species. Then again the kid could achieve far more in his lifetime than a Gorilla, he could be the next Einstein or the next Obama, and vice versa he could also be the next John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy. So is this Gorilla worth more alive to his species continued presence on this planet than this kid will be valuable to society as he grows up?

He's a human, that's how we determine to save his life over a gorilla's.
 

Aurongel

Member
So i have just read that police are going to investigate the parents due to online pressure. What the fuck is wrong with people. Are parents going to start getting arrested if their kid runs off in the super market or runs out in the road.

Things with kids happen in split seconds and by all accounts that is what happened.

Jesus christ i'm fucking sick of the twitter police. They sit behind their keyboards with their prefect lives were they all have fucking halos and have never made a mistake.
Police don't investigate something based on entirely subjective "online pressure". Got a source that shows a causal relationship there?
 

Shinjica

Member
So i have just read that police are going to investigate the parents due to online pressure. What the fuck is wrong with people. Are parents going to start getting arrested if their kid runs off in the super market or runs out in the road.

Things with kids happen in split seconds and by all accounts that is what happened.

Jesus christ i'm fucking sick of the twitter police. They sit behind their keyboards with their prefect lives were they all have fucking halos and have never made a mistake.

Parents are responsable of their children. If your kids break a window you have to pay it
 
Fuck the people saying they would rather save their dog instead of someone's else's child.

Let's see how you would feel if the roles were reversed.

Fucking embarrassing.

What? A dog who is a member of your family is significantly more important than a person you don't know. Ideally you save both but you have your priorities to save your family first.
 
What? A dog who is a member of your family is significantly more important than a person you don't know. Ideally you save both but you have your priorities to save your family first.

No you don't. I love my pets almost like family but if it came down to saving them or a child I don't know it's not even a contest. I would save the child no matter what.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
No. There first thought is how to keep the animal from escaping/safety of the handlers. Second (now day, not a concern in the past) is design an environment to suppose the mental and physical health of the animal. Third is how the visitors can view the animal safely. Many enclosure depend on the intelligence of visitor not to violate the post rules in order to give clear views to the animals.

There is only so much safety you can add before visitors complain they can't see the animals. The compromise is zoo lower fences and the public promises not to jump over them.

You worried about kids getting into the exhibits? Most of the time they end up in the closures because of dumb ass parents like this:

stroller-on-fence.jpg


Can't find it now, but there was a case where the exhibit had an 6f+ chain link fence and the parent over the top so their kids could see better. Of course the kid fell in and they blamed the zoo.

How do you stop idiots like this? Age restrictions for kids? Intelligence test (for the parents). Electrified fences to keep the humans back? A guard at every pit writing tickets to violators?

You won't believe how many times I've seen this. And yes, I stopped stopping parents from doing this, because when I did, I got responses in the vein of "don't meddle in our business." and "don't dictate how I raise my child!"

A lot of parents are idiots, and their children suffer for it.
 

Hip Hop

Member
What? A dog who is a member of your family is significantly more important than a person you don't know. Ideally you save both but you have your priorities to save your family first.
I guess if you're not sane, then yeah, you might choose a dog over a child.
 
in this hypothetical scenario were someone chooses to save their dog over child. Do you think criminal charges could be brought to that individual if the child died as a result of the dog being saved?
 

numble

Member
"A dog"?

A member of your family. It being a dog doesn't matter. It's a member of your family, and that is more important than a stranger. At least it is to me.

So is this like, if you were in control of a runaway train's tracks, and it is going to go down the track where your dog happens to be on the tracks, you would flip the switch to make the train hit a baby instead of your dog?
 
You got a better source than bloody Daily Mail that's even banned here?

haha no I thought i read it on the bbc but when i retraced my steps it was the mail were i picked that up. I had already made the decision in my head to unload before confirming my source. Either way that police department have still be inundated with calls to prosecute the parents
 
Zoo defence force?

Even the zoo keeper in the article above admits that they need to re-evaluate the enclosure.

Because of one shitty kid forcing them to murder a gorilla.

It worked flawlessly for decades and then this little shit comes along with shitty parents and now we're meant to ignore the fact there were no issues for almost 4 decades?

Nope. Shitty parenting is shitty parenting and should be called out as such. I don't care if kids wander off, that's a garbage excuse, they are your responsibility at all times at that age. You chose to have them, don't neglect your duties and look after them properly.
 
What else was it? Mercy killing?

for it to be even considered as murder it would have to be unlawful and considering the gorilla is property of the zoos and no action is being taken its not murder, plus its a gorilla. Zoos cull animals on daily basis all over the world and its perfectly legal and just a shitty part of zoos. There is a zoo in Denmark that infamously feed these unwanted animals to the lions for the kids to watch
 
Who cares if there was 40 years with no accidents? There's been one now and there wasn't any extreme circumstances like the kid being lifted up or some kind of freak malfunction. When a 4 year old kid somehow bypasses your standard, functional security and enters a gorilla enclosure without any help... it's clearly not a very good enclosure. What was stopping the zoo from making a larger plexiglass barrier?
 
This lynch mob mentality is very dangerous, the media clearly wants this family broken up. Why do people care so much about this gorilla I don't know, there are so many other tragedies in the world right now but people choose to concentrate on having a distressed mum persecuted for making a mistake. If people really cared about gorillas they would all be donating to wildlife sanctuaries in Africa to keep them out of harms way and zoos. Same type of people who cared about Cecil the lion no doubt, where are they now , they upped and moved on to the next thing to get pissed off about. I give this story another week before the next new issue comes about that requires a silly petition.
In the middle of the 6th great extinction so yea. Gotta really take care of the few animal species we have less. I am all for heavy punishment for the family watch your kids.
 

numble

Member
Four decades worth of four year olds visited with no issue, so no. It's the parenting here that fucking sucks.

Something can be bad and still function well. China Airlines Flight 611 flew for over two decades after an improper repair was made before it crashed due to that repair.

When governments introduce new safety standards or regulations, do you rail against them as unnecessary? For instance, a multitude of safety measures were introduced for airports and airplanes after 9/11 (like locking pilot doors), federalizing airport security, etc. Do you argue that planes flew without such incidents for decades, so we do not need the measures now?
 

Bgamer90

Banned
So is this like, if you were in control of a runaway train's tracks, and it is going to go down the track where your dog happens to be on the tracks, you would flip the switch to make the train hit a baby instead of your dog?

Yeah -- my mind is completely blown by some of these arguments. I don't care if I don't know a kid -- his/her life is far more important than whatever pet I own. Also, why stop at dogs? What about a bird or a fish? You are telling me that it would be reasonable to care more about my pet bird or pet fish that's in danger over a kid? Yeah... Something's telling me that would get FAR more backlash in comparison to saving a dog in comparison to a human child (which is still mind blowing to me).
 

Rbk_3

Member
If you think there is public outrage about this, imagine if the dude above saved his fuckin dog over a child.
 

Poona

Member
If you think there is public outrage about this, imagine if the dude above saved his fuckin dog over a child.

Nah, parents fault for losing their child there, they should have been looking after it better. He knew his dog so it's natural to give more priority to it, and want to save it over something he does not know.

I currently don't live with any dogs, but the two times I've been most upset in my life was when two of my dogs died. I wish they were still here with me. I really miss them. I can't feel anything for some kid I don't know or know nothing about apart from them just being some random kid, of which there are millions more in the world. I think for people to care more about some random kid who they don't know over a dog who has depended on you for most likely close to their whole life actually shows a coldness of sorts. Like it'd be better off if you did not have a dog, if you think they're just some non feeling object to shove in the backyard and leave there as some just some status symbol or to intimidate or guard property.
 

Volimar

Member
Saw this on imgur, sorry if it's been posted already.

l5vmfBi.jpg


"I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon. I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations. Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by. Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc. While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans. In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting. I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean. I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes. Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd. Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid! They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well. Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal. I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit. I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009"
 

faridmon

Member
A lot of people get very heated about alleged mistreatment of animals - as long as they have a personal connection to one or the animal is sufficiently "majestic" or "exotic". See: this thread.

We've had threads where people have openly pondered the idea of allowing infants to be killed after birth. The weird misanthropic "humanity is a cancer and I don't care if a stranger dies... in fact, it's probably a good thing" stuff is sadly not new.

I am very sad reading this.

People can be selfishly idiotic sometimes.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
How do we weigh a life's worth? There are far fewer Lowland Gorillas in the world so a male Silverback is more valuable to his species than a 4 year old kid when considering things like genetic diversity and the already scarce nature of the species. Then again the kid could achieve far more in his lifetime than a Gorilla, he could be the next Einstein or the next Obama, and vice versa he could also be the next John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy. So is this Gorilla worth more alive to his species continued presence on this planet than this kid will be valuable to society as he grows up?
Well apparently gorilla meat goes for about $6 a lb on the black market.
 
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