-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gotham S2 |OT| Dawn of Altruism - Mondays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Katana_Strikes
Member
Amazing episode. The shit hit the fan. Lots of great moments and set ups for the future. Bring on next week already 
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Jerome was great, it's going to be a bit disappointing when he's killed off. I must have missed a shot where the bus driver got taken away and everyone on the bus got handcuffed.
Is Babs being Jim's niece/adopted daughter still canon? I haven't followed much since the New 52. Just don't make Barbara Alfred's niece. >_>
Gotham a lot of effects but they're just subtle. Arrow's problem is and always has been the quality of the writing and its CW trappings same as Flash's short comings but its generally lighter tone helps.
Barbara isn't really needed, there's plenty of continuity where she wasn't the future Batgirl's mother. Make her Jim's niece just as she has been in the source material.
Is Babs being Jim's niece/adopted daughter still canon? I haven't followed much since the New 52. Just don't make Barbara Alfred's niece. >_>
Gotham a lot of effects but they're just subtle. Arrow's problem is and always has been the quality of the writing and its CW trappings same as Flash's short comings but its generally lighter tone helps.
Well, not exactly. Maybe not for most of the episodes, but there are subtle VFX changes here and there.
Poodlestrike
Banned
And most of the skyline is CGI. They do a ton of work in the background.
liliththepale
Banned
I like Jerome's Joker a lot, but I wish he was his own character a little bit more. Each of the nods to his being Joker are like "remember when Heath Ledger did that?" or "remember this in BTAS?" I don't want him to end up a cookie cutter collage of everything before him, just in a new skin.
Really cool. Thanks for sharing!
Really cool. Thanks for sharing!
Last I checked, she was Jim's actual daughter and he and Barb seniorita just divorced. Barb jr. being whoever's niece is just a matter of how they implement it. The relationship will change depending if it's Alfred or Jim or even Bruce's aunt. It's how they implement it, and Gotham has done a better job with those things than most other superhero shows.
Glad you said it and not me. I have difficulty articulating the extent to which I loathe CW shows (especially Arrow) and I worry it makes me a rabid dog at point. It's one thing for writing to be bad, but Arrow downright offends me at points. Gotham stands head and shoulders above them because a lot of its writing is genuinely good and tries to explore characters in a new light, while Arrow's budget can only excuse so much of the dumb stuff that goes on there.
Even as a kid that made no sense to me when they pulled that in Batman & Robin. It seemed so out of left field compared to everything else they had done and how they had stuck to the source material. If they had went wild with other things then that might have been fine.
Edit:
Then again they screwed up Gordon so badly by the time they got to that film I guess they had no choice.
Did people really care about that so much? All the flaws of BF and Barbara not being Gordon's niece is counted as among the highest sins?
Look, the only reason that the change was bad was because the movie was badly written. Barbara Gordon can be changed to be Alfred's niece, Bruce's cousin, Harvey's illegitimate daughter, whatever, as long as they take the time to justify the relationship through appropriate exploration of what it means to the characters. Just a page ago people were talking about how Gotham is set in exploring it's own version of the mythos and how it's odd that comic fans reject it on the basis that it is not slavishly writing within the lines of the ever changing comics themselves.
You can't seriously argue that BF would have been a superior movie if the names had been swapped and Gordon was still her uncle rather than Alfred. Who gives a fuck about that. The important thing about Barbara Gordon, jr (do you still use jr when referring to a daughter with the same name as the mother?) is that she is a well written character, not what her biological relations are.
Look, the only reason that the change was bad was because the movie was badly written. Barbara Gordon can be changed to be Alfred's niece, Bruce's cousin, Harvey's illegitimate daughter, whatever, as long as they take the time to justify the relationship through appropriate exploration of what it means to the characters. Just a page ago people were talking about how Gotham is set in exploring it's own version of the mythos and how it's odd that comic fans reject it on the basis that it is not slavishly writing within the lines of the ever changing comics themselves.
You can't seriously argue that BF would have been a superior movie if the names had been swapped and Gordon was still her uncle rather than Alfred. Who gives a fuck about that. The important thing about Barbara Gordon, jr (do you still use jr when referring to a daughter with the same name as the mother?) is that she is a well written character, not what her biological relations are.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Damn good episode.
I'm now no longer sure what's going on with Jerome. After this episode, feels like it's basically Joker. The mannerisms, the laugh, just everything about him hints to Joker, but it's also too obvious. It feels too much like a bluff.
Also not enough Jessica Lucas. I needed more.
Gordon got the shit beat out of him. Amazing and LOL at Barbara just walking into GCPD like it ain't no thang.
I'm now no longer sure what's going on with Jerome. After this episode, feels like it's basically Joker. The mannerisms, the laugh, just everything about him hints to Joker, but it's also too obvious. It feels too much like a bluff.
Also not enough Jessica Lucas. I needed more.
Gordon got the shit beat out of him. Amazing and LOL at Barbara just walking into GCPD like it ain't no thang.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Lots of filler bullshit. I'd recommend watching the last two episodes of season 1 and diving straight into season 2.
liliththepale
Banned
At this point, I think the only red herring is producers saying there's a red herring.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
From what I remember, DC actually gave the greenlight to kill off villains that are in the comics.
Purple Cheeto
Member
This show is awful at doing anything subtle. They've been hammering us over the head with nods since the first episode. If they somehow learned subtlety I'll be amazed.
Since some people were saying that Gotham looks more expensive than CW's comic book shows, it made me curious about who actually works on the visuals for Gotham. After snooping around for 10 minutes, here are some of the people behind the visuals of this show.
- Gotham's art direction is (or was) handled by Charley Beal. He previously handled the art direction for hollywood films like "Milk" (Sean Penn, Josh Brolin) and "Invincible" (Mark Wahlberg).
- One of Gotham Season 2's visual effects coordinators, Anthony Chiarantano, was a production supervisor on films like Mad Max Fury Road, Jurassic World, San Andreas, and Avengers: Age of Ultron.
- Mark Vicidomini, special effects assistant on the film "John Wick", now works on Gotham Season 2.
- Gabu Camilo works on set dressing and visual effects for Gotham Season 2. He previously worked on films like "Inside Man" and "I am Legend". He has worked on TV shows like The Knick and Elementary.
- Gotham's set decorator, Andrew Basemen, was previously a set decorator for "The Americans" and "Spin City"
- Tom Yatsko, a cinemotographer on Gotham, was previously a director of photography for five years on "Alias". He was also director of photography on the film, "The Day After Tomorrow".
- Gotham's costumes are designed by Lisa Padovini, who designed costumes for "Boardwalk Empire", "The Departed", and "Shutter Island".
- Gotham's charge scenic artist, Roland Brooks, worked on films like American Gangster, Catch Me If You Can, Shutter Island, and Men in Black.
- Gotham's colorist John Bonta, is also the colorist for "Person of Interest".
- Gotham's art direction is (or was) handled by Charley Beal. He previously handled the art direction for hollywood films like "Milk" (Sean Penn, Josh Brolin) and "Invincible" (Mark Wahlberg).
- One of Gotham Season 2's visual effects coordinators, Anthony Chiarantano, was a production supervisor on films like Mad Max Fury Road, Jurassic World, San Andreas, and Avengers: Age of Ultron.
- Mark Vicidomini, special effects assistant on the film "John Wick", now works on Gotham Season 2.
- Gabu Camilo works on set dressing and visual effects for Gotham Season 2. He previously worked on films like "Inside Man" and "I am Legend". He has worked on TV shows like The Knick and Elementary.
- Gotham's set decorator, Andrew Basemen, was previously a set decorator for "The Americans" and "Spin City"
- Tom Yatsko, a cinemotographer on Gotham, was previously a director of photography for five years on "Alias". He was also director of photography on the film, "The Day After Tomorrow".
- Gotham's costumes are designed by Lisa Padovini, who designed costumes for "Boardwalk Empire", "The Departed", and "Shutter Island".
- Gotham's charge scenic artist, Roland Brooks, worked on films like American Gangster, Catch Me If You Can, Shutter Island, and Men in Black.
- Gotham's colorist John Bonta, is also the colorist for "Person of Interest".
PHOENIXZERO
Member
*Batman and Robin. Barbara could've been anyone and wouldn't have matter honestly, since everything else was terrible. That was one of the least offensive things about it. But Batman Forever was the second best Batman movie of that era IMO though that's not saying much.
I hope so.
At this point, after all we've seen of Jerome, making him into a red herring would be terrible writing. Red herrings only work well when the traits of the suspect are 'subtle'. Maybe if the character likes to tell jokes, or if he laughs sometimes, or if he plays with cards... You get the idea. They only work when they are vague.
But Jerome is anything but. He is psychotic. He cares not for human life. He loves to throw jokes at all times. He laughs a lot. He's CLEARLY nihilistic. He seems to be a natural born leader. We have this scene where his hair appears green. He has a thing for being theatrical. He has that foreshadowing from his father saying that his legacy will be madness and death.
Having a character that looks, acts, laughs and commits crimes just like the Joker and then saying "Whoops! He's not the Joker!" would be lame. There's no subtety about Jerome. It would be like killing off Ed Nygma and then introducing his cousin, who is the real future Riddler.
I remember there being a lame stand up comedian in Fish Mooney's club at the beginning of the first season. Now THAT would be a good red herring. Nothing too direct. Subtle. Plays with one of the versions of the Joker's origin in the comics, etc. Jerome has gone too far to be a simple fakeout.
Yeah, BR then. Got the names mixed up.
The one with Jim Carry as Riddler was great fun, though, I agree.
Lies. This boy is the Joker incarnate
beyond_death
Member
These first 2 episodes of the season are pretty great. I'll be sticking around I think.
BrokenFiction
Member
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
Jerome completely sold me on being a good Joker. Even if they don't confirm it, we all know exactly who he's channeling.
Barbara became way more interesting as a villain than whatever the hell she was in S1.
GCPD should just give up, or up their security or something. How many times can they let a bad guy waltz in the station and fuck their shit up?
Barbara became way more interesting as a villain than whatever the hell she was in S1.
GCPD should just give up, or up their security or something. How many times can they let a bad guy waltz in the station and fuck their shit up?
liliththepale
Banned
Freewheelin'
Member
Damn, that episode was really good.
Jerome is great, lol.
Jerome is great, lol.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Man, you crazy. Jerome is a fantastic Joker.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Subtle Smallville dig?
Shadax the wizard
Member
Nah. He is an amazing Joker and my favourite thing in the whole series.
Chuckie
Member
This reminds me of Caprica where we follow a boy called William Adama who we all think is the later captain of the Battlestar Galactica, William 'Bill' Adama.
And then he gets shot and killed. Apparently it wasn't William 'Bill' Adama but his older half-brother William 'Willy' Adama. Bill got named after Willy because of ancient (last minute made-up) Tauron custom. What.the.fuck.
I'm not sold on this Jerome boy just yet. There's still something annoying about it.
Give me Barbara and that Galavan sister on the screen for 45 minutes every week, and I'll be a happy man!
This episode weren't that strong, and I don't particularly feel, that it is better than S1, but I totally digged S1.
Give me Barbara and that Galavan sister on the screen for 45 minutes every week, and I'll be a happy man!
This episode weren't that strong, and I don't particularly feel, that it is better than S1, but I totally digged S1.
Chuckie
Member
So you want hot chicks in leather and heels whipping guys for 45 minutes?
They have specialized movies for that you know
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I just don't get how it looks so damn good.
It even destroys Begin's Gotham for me and its on a tv budget.
Add to that the fact its almost unrecognizable as CG or actual New York City
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I think Gotham is safe as long as the Netflix deal is in place and I imagine that deal carried over to season two. WB is making money off this show before the episodes even air.
Nolan was lazy as fuck with the "hyper realism" and just using Chicago and not doing a whole lot to make it feel like Gotham or anything but a generic large city.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
He tried with Begins(which at the time I thought was great), TDK was just Chicago and finally Rises was just an awkward patchwork of real cities.
Why the heck did the Wayne building change as well.
Seriously. After this that place had better be a fortress. What happen can't be allowed to happen again for in-universe reasons and general story reasons.
That was such a copout by them. It was completely unnecessary and I feel took something away from the Jimmy that was in the show and friends with Clark, Chloe, etc.