arkhamguy123
Member
Fine $3000
-
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
arkhamguy123
Member
*No actual refutation of his points*
Maybe we should steer the conversation back to graphics in this graphics thread in the here and now and make a separate batman vs Spider-Man thread?
What do we all say? How bout it?
samoilaaa
Member
well the bar was raised
arkhamguy123
Member
What do you mean
Alex11
Member
After their first video on SM2, I've had enough of DF, I think it's time people stop taking everything they as a major reference.Watching new SM2 video from DF.
Lol just as they talk about "new, highly detailed interiors", they show this
Not only the characters are low quality which is perfectly FINE
but the doors are facing to the outside lol.
Then the director mentions "well the sm1 had some flat looking buildings so we wanted to take on that"... well....
Don't know what happened to them, but lately they fail or "fail" to mention pretty noticeable flaws in certain games, even in the Cyberpunk videos, a game which I think has the best graphics, they fail pretty big on some issues.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Some PS exclusives will probably beat out Alan Wake 2 as well, to be fair. Sony 1st party still holds the reign as kings of facial animations & little minute attentions to detail.
But from a technical brute force perspective? Resolution/framerate/volumetrics/render distance/lighting/etc.. etc..? You can't beat $2000 hardware with a $400-$500 box.
arkhamguy123
Member
we’ll see. I hope so. Thus far (in my estimation) we’ve had just 2 impressive first party outings.
Demon Souls. And Burning Shores. The rest of them either don’t even have enough going on to announce anything after years of silence, release phoned in cross gen PS4 games, or perhaps most bafflingly, release their next gen only exclusives that kinda look like shit a lot of the time. Or short of that, look underwhelming compared to their work last gen and the gen before that.
It leads me to think that they’ve hit a budget and/or talent wall. (Fun fact most of a video games budget comes from marketing and developer salary). Or perhaps the time and work needed to make a whole game on the level of the matrix demo or the valley of the ancient UE5 2020 debut demo, a true generational leap, is simply too great for these studios.
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arkhamguy123
Member
To be fair they kind of took a shortcut with the Spider-Man IP. Casuals know (and love) Spider-Man.
There’s a reason they didn’t see this commercial success pre Spider-Man with resistance or ratchet and clank. But post Spider-Man they blow up sales charts. It’s different than a new IP where people just sit down and brainstorm about some red head girl that hunts robot dinosaurs or some charming guy who hunts for treasure and knows his way around a gun and hope it hits big because it’ll be a great game that resonates with general audiences.
If say sucker punch got the Spider-Man license they’d also now have the fastest selling ps exclusive and 20M copies etc etc
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Lethal01
Member
It's Dada talking about Spiderman, I'm sure everyone here knows not to take him seriously.
Valid thinking but they did nail the superhero formula in my opinion. And before you get up all in my face I never played the Batman series so
. But based on the superhero games that I did play they seem to have gotten the formula right especially for Spiderman prolly the superhero with the most games and sm2 back on the ps2 was hella good so competition was fierce for Spiderman and Insomniac came out on top.But for sure Spidey being the most popular superhero ever played a role!
arkhamguy123
Member
Stop what you’re doing right now. And go and get the Arkham trilogy + origins on steam. Upon getting 100% completion on all 4, come to me in a dm with your detailed analysis and review on each game. That’s your assignmentValid thinking but they did nail the superhero formula in my opinion. And before you get up all in my face I never played the Batman series so
But for sure Spidey being the most popular superhero ever played a role!
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So Spider-Man is bigger than Batman? You don't know that.
Are they playable on the ps5? You guys got me hyped for the game!
arkhamguy123
Member
Wait I didn’t say that?
arkhamguy123
Member
Knight is. Origins is if you get the disk and have a series X. All of them are on pc of course. And they’re bringing the OG trilogy to the switch December 1st.
Don’t bother with “return to Arkham” remasters. They look like shit and taint the aesthetic vision rocksteady had for the first 2 games.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Spider-Man 2 killed all my hype for Wolverine. I just did a quest:
- collect 3 plants
- do a 'puzzle' (heh) to combine them
- patch few water pipe leaks with your webs
That's it. That's the entire activity. What. The. Hell. This is Bethesda level of quests where all you do is collect a beverage and deliver it to the other side of the universe.
More next-gen water:
- collect 3 plants
- do a 'puzzle' (heh) to combine them
- patch few water pipe leaks with your webs
That's it. That's the entire activity. What. The. Hell. This is Bethesda level of quests where all you do is collect a beverage and deliver it to the other side of the universe.
More next-gen water:
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It was implied, Spider-Man and Batman don't stand toe-to-toe? The previous entries of Spider-Man didn't seem to sell well,that could've been because of game fatigue. If google is accurate then Spider-Man series on PS4 sold more than the last gen entries combined of Batman.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Wait when did I imply that?
And there was 1 last Gen entry of Batman. What do you mean combined?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Something very interesting mentioned in the Spiderman tech interview is that their baked lighting takes 4 days to render. It used to take 7 days to bake one lighting time of day and multiple what i assume are render farms. Now thanks to improvements in their processing pipelines, they can do it on one machine and 4 days.
This is why whenever i hear people praise Path tracing or even RTGI as superior to baked lighting, I like to point out that it mostly on impacts the actual transition or dynamic elements that we simply dont see in video games. Not even in Starfield which uses realtime GI. Most of the time the lighting is static indoors where the game looks best.
But in terms of actual quality, baked lighting retains the light bounce and other properties of realtime GI, it just doesnt handle the transitions well which is not an issue in static time of day games like AC Unity and Spiderman. Something like Alan Wake which has a static time of day is simply not going to benefit as much with path tracing since the devs are likely already spending days baking in the GI they designed the game around.
EDIT: He just said the lighting data alone is 1/3rd of the 90GB game size. I wonder if they went to realtime GI or even RTGI, if they would be able to save on file size. But right now its a matter of using 1/3rd of the game disc on lighting data vs 1/3rd of the GPU horsepower on doing realtime GI.
This is why whenever i hear people praise Path tracing or even RTGI as superior to baked lighting, I like to point out that it mostly on impacts the actual transition or dynamic elements that we simply dont see in video games. Not even in Starfield which uses realtime GI. Most of the time the lighting is static indoors where the game looks best.
But in terms of actual quality, baked lighting retains the light bounce and other properties of realtime GI, it just doesnt handle the transitions well which is not an issue in static time of day games like AC Unity and Spiderman. Something like Alan Wake which has a static time of day is simply not going to benefit as much with path tracing since the devs are likely already spending days baking in the GI they designed the game around.
EDIT: He just said the lighting data alone is 1/3rd of the 90GB game size. I wonder if they went to realtime GI or even RTGI, if they would be able to save on file size. But right now its a matter of using 1/3rd of the game disc on lighting data vs 1/3rd of the GPU horsepower on doing realtime GI.
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Watching this thread turn into Barman Arkham Knight (2015 game) vs Spiderman 2 is very funny, but not at all surprising to those of us who said from the beginning that Spiderman 2 is not a true next gen game and can't even compete with a cross gen game like Forbidden West. All the gaslighting by DahDah and his blood gang seemed to have convinced even the likes of
SlimySnake
that Spiderman 2 is a top tier looking game, but I'm glad everyone is back to reality and sees the game for what it is on technical front.
As we're about to head into 2024 (last gen's equivalent of 2017) we're still arguing among ourselves on what constitutes next gen and what doesn't, something that highlights how awful this generation has been in terms of advancement on visual and presentation front.
SlimySnake
that Spiderman 2 is a top tier looking game, but I'm glad everyone is back to reality and sees the game for what it is on technical front.As we're about to head into 2024 (last gen's equivalent of 2017) we're still arguing among ourselves on what constitutes next gen and what doesn't, something that highlights how awful this generation has been in terms of advancement on visual and presentation front.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Spoiler free gif but check the spoiler thread for what comes after. The gameplay (yes, gameplay) right after this looks better than the very first reveal trailer most people swore Insomniac lied about.
Lethal01
Member
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that
Balducci30
Member
I played thru the game already I’m trying remember is this the part
where u play as venom
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arkhamguy123
Member
I think the time and man power and work needed to deliver a generational leap, which we’ve seen by the way, with the matrix demo and the valley of the ancient REAL TIME reveal PS5 demo is just too much for these studios. They can’t do it. They don’t have the talent and/or the will and/or the drive.Watching this thread turn into Barman Arkham Knight (2015 game) vs Spiderman 2 is very funny, but not at all surprising to those of us who said from the beginning that Spiderman 2 is not a true next gen game and can't even compete with a cross gen game like Forbidden West. All the gaslighting by DahDah and his blood gang seemed to have convinced even the likes of
As we're about to head into 2024 (last gen's equivalent of 2017) we're still arguing among ourselves on what constitutes next gen and what doesn't, something that highlights how awful this generation has been in terms of advancement on visual and presentation front.
They’re content to make PS4 games but take it to 4k and add the 60fps mode of course so everyone can clap for them and their lack of advancement or innovation. OH BUT LOOK! It runs up to 70FPS in VRR mode! Give me a break. Imagine a game running up to 70FPS on ps4. I’d imagine it would look like a shiny PS3 game.
Lethal01
Member
We have some standard fog and two figure in dark illuminated by a direct light, it's a really simple scene executed well with nice composition.
The tentacles look nice too, but nothing here is graphically standing out.
What exactly are you impressed by here?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nah, ChiefDada had nothing to do with it. The game simply looks amazing and has true next gen moments. You guys just have insanely high standards ive been fighting against all year. And thats ok. Someone needs to have these standards.Watching this thread turn into Barman Arkham Knight (2015 game) vs Spiderman 2 is very funny, but not at all surprising to those of us who said from the beginning that Spiderman 2 is not a true next gen game and can't even compete with a cross gen game like Forbidden West. All the gaslighting by DahDah seemed to have convinced even the likes of
I just think games like FF16, Starfield, Forza and now Spiderman 2 have a lot of next gen things that simply couldnt be possible on last gen hardware. You guys all focus exclusively on the worst things about the game and thats ok. We need to criticize these $100 million $70 games and since no one is doing it, I am happy you guys are doing it on the off chance someone from the dev team peaks in here.
That said, I am simply consistent in my praise of this game. I consider HFW the best looking game of this gen, and I have posted dozens of screenshots showing its flaws to show that HFW is not a game without flaws. Same goes for cyberpunk. Best looking PC game and probably the best looking game out there, but its not a flawless game either. I have no idea how we went from showcasing a game's flawed areas to simply shitting on it and ignoring everything else that its doing thats next gen. Just to shit on it. We did this with starfield. We did with FF16. In the GT7 vs Forza thread, everyone is ignoring Forza's massive improvements to lighting, trackside detail, rain, and Im putting them side by side and its a generational difference. But hey, it was shit on Forza turn last week. And I guess now its Spiderman 2's turn.
This thread is called Graphics Fidelity I expect this so if you arent getting the fidelity you expect from these games then fine. I am getting the stuff I have constantly asked for in this thread dating back to two years ago. I asked for matrix quality traffic jams, I got it. I asked for big epic setpieces with city buildings being leveled, i got it. I asked for The order 1886 level of model fidelity, i got it in Starfield. I asked for SSD being used for fast traversal across the city and setpieces. I got it. FF16 gave me the big epic setpieces SSM refused to do in GOW.
I havent gotten destruction and matrix quality buildings and that is unfortunate, but there is a lot to love. Alan Wake looks like the greatest looking game ive ever seen, but i can promise you some dudes will be doing to it the same thing others are doing to spidemran. picking the worst shots and using it to trash the game. Wait till avatar comes out with RTGI, RT reflections, RT shadows and the most detailed foliage ever in a game, and people will use disingenious comparisons to trash it.
If the thread gets its kicks out of trashing everything then whatever. I will choose to both praise and criticize the next gen games that are finally rolling in after a 3 year wait.
arkhamguy123
Member
This Gen has broken us and beaten us down so much we’re giving Spider-Man 2 a pat on the back for looking “amazing”
I want to thank all these devs that don’t even try to push graphics or physics. I want to thank all the whiney geeks who bitched endlessly about 30fps and 60fps to get 60fps mandates in everything. And I’d like to thank the causals for taking gaming so mass market any extra expense or risk or effort to do something truly excellent or innovative is stifled 9/10 times. You’ve all truly outdone yourselves. Amazing work.
I want to thank all these devs that don’t even try to push graphics or physics. I want to thank all the whiney geeks who bitched endlessly about 30fps and 60fps to get 60fps mandates in everything. And I’d like to thank the causals for taking gaming so mass market any extra expense or risk or effort to do something truly excellent or innovative is stifled 9/10 times. You’ve all truly outdone yourselves. Amazing work.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ok so put your money where your mouth is. If this is "standard" volumetric, show me 3 current gen games that have volumetric fog just as impressive. I can think of maybe one but let's see what you come up with.
As I said before, I'm keeping it spoiler free here but the following gameplay sequence looks better than the initial reveal that everyone said was fake/not real time.
Make up your mind.
See above.
Lethal01
Member
It's a case by case situation but baked lighting can have all kinds of issues even in totally static scenes, to fix those issues you would have to bake you GI probes and cubemaps out to a resolution and density that I think would actually make it many times more taxing on the GPU than raytracing which is why realtime raytracing is the direction you want the hardware to go.
So nah, you aren't just sacrificing dynamicness or disk size you are also hurting the quality when you go fully baked.
That said it can improve there are system that mix the two in various ways and do realtime rebakes and such.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Eh. Its just a side quest. no one is forcing you to do them. All of the peter's side quests are for the woke lab Harry has created. They are saving bees, making electric bikes, and solving world hunger so its already retarded lol. skip all the side quests that have a plant next to them.Spider-Man 2 killed all my hype for Wolverine. I just did a quest:
- collect 3 plants
- do a 'puzzle' (heh) to combine them
- patch few water pipe leaks with your webs
That's it. That's the entire activity. What. The. Hell. This is Bethesda level of quests where all you do is collect a beverage and deliver it to the other side of the universe.
More next-gen water:
The water is fine. The tech director confirms that all of the water has RT reflections which was something previously only seen in PC's version of Cyberpunk. for a fucking 10 tflops $400 AMD console to do this is a massive achievement.
Water looks fantastic in this game. no idea whats wrong with it.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Sarcasm or what?
Balducci30
Member
For me the problem with it is the way it moves/interaction. I can do without rt reflections on water doesn’t make a hugely noticeable difference to me vs the way it interacts. The splashes look straight up bad to me. If that GTA 6 thing is true and they figured out a way to do a full simulation of the water in the game THAT will blow me awayEh. Its just a side quest. no one is forcing you to do them. All of the peter's side quests are for the woke lab Harry has created. They are saving bees, making electric bikes, and solving world hunger so its already retarded lol. skip all the side quests that have a plant next to them.
The water is fine. The tech director confirms that all of the water has RT reflections which was something previously only seen in PC's version of Cyberpunk. for a fucking 10 tflops $400 AMD console to do this is a massive achievement.
Water looks fantastic in this game. no idea whats wrong with it.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The tech director made it sound like they could only pick one or the other. RT reflections is what they ended up going with because NYC buildings are so reflective but I think they are running into just how computationally expensive having both RTGI and RT reflections can be in a game. On PC RTGI even on medium cuts the performance in half. On an AMD GPU, it will probably be more expensive. he says they wont ignore the realtime GI techniques so its probably something that will come in the future. He also mentioned that because you are flying so fast in this game, realtime GI wouldve probably lagged behind. I wonder if a more traditional game like Wolverine might use RTGI over reflections for that reason alone.
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Lethal01
Member
The tentacles look nice, just like the entire scene looks nice, I'm asking what's graphically impressive
The fog is a bunch of billboards with a light shaft effect coming from a direct light, in this shot it's not doing anything more advanced than the fog in final fantasy 7 remake.
We've had volumetric shadows since ps4/ps3 days really.
However if you are saying that you chose a bad scene to showcase it then fine, message me something that's actually worthwhile.
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Sounds to me like you just dropped your standards and we kept ours. I think once this gen really kicks in and we get proper next gen looking games you'll all see that our expectations were as reasonable as they should be.
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arkhamguy123
Member
Yeah some people here have really lost the plot as far as next gen graphics go. I’m gonna post these 2 gems here as a reminder and implore you all to rewatch. It’s probably been awhile since a lot of you have watched these. Especially the first one. I’d also like to remind you out there that both of these are running real time on PS5. No trickery. Until developers are even trying to get close to this I won’t accept table scraps and PS4 games masquerading as PS5 games. 60fps has ruined tech advances.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I d
I don't buy into this for a second. You mainly have two reasons why games haven't advanced forward visually, the time and effort it takes to upgrade an engine (most studios still running old engines with old features) and the fact that massive amount of resources on these consoles are being wasted to do ray tracing. AMD ray tracing is far weaker than on Nvidia GPUs, yet even on RTX GPUs ray tracing is very expensive. Now think about doing ray tracing at 60fps in open world game and you'll understand why visuals are being held back.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Nope. I got most of the things I wanted.
Forza has amazing weather effects, 3d trees, ray tracing during gameplay and a massive increase in trackside detail from last gen.
I am not going to ignore all that just because it fails to outdo every single fucking thing GT7 does better.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
And this is around the same time, right before you enter the tunnel:
Ok? What's your point here?
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Wrong. There are MULTIPLE points in the main story where you have to do a side quest to progress.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
spoiler tags exist. use them.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Same as always. Game is extremely inconsistent. This wasn't the case with Spider-Man on PS4. That game screamed polish and quality.
OMG you go inside the tunnel. And there's a blue light! And smoke! Such a spoiler!
ThisIsMyDog
Gold Member
Can't wait to see Witcher 4 on this engine.
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And yet you were the one that was the most critical of the game leading up to launch., yet suddenly changed your stance close to launch. Tell me, how much of that Insomniac money did DahDah pay you?? I also want some.
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