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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

I get people saying water is too viscous looking in the movement - but at least it fuckin moves like a liquid which is better than the liquids in any other game in existence? At least that I’ve played. It’s progress - we can’t go 0-100% accurate water simulations
Don’t listen to clowns who downplay Astrobot physics
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's a shame i cant run RT on my system because the game looks amazing even with path tracing off. This isnt even cinematic settings. Plain on High settings so basically PS4 quality running at a lower internal resolution than ps5. Still looks amazing.

oFClfMM.gif


This is the 4th or 5th game in the past two years ive not been able to play with ray tracing on. No matter how much i downgrade the visuals and resolution. even if i have 50% gpu available, the stuttering is unbearable. Whats the point of having a 3080 when i cant play Forza, re4, Hogwarts, Wukong, Star Wars with RT on? i even have a pretty decent CPU that crushes path tracing at 60 fps in cyberpunk.
 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
PS5 Fidelity vs PS5 Pro Performance. JFC this is pretty insane for only a 45% GPU uplift. Funny enough the most impressive lighting is the ambient occlusion in the fur. Imagine additional fidelity if they kept a 30fps mode on the Pro.



wFX5bBp.png




They Pull Me Back In Al Pacino GIF by The Godfather
 
Yeah the character models and facial animations are pretty rough but the scale of the world and the lod look good even if you can saw some pop in.

It's a detail but why they made his footstep so loud ? When the character walks on cobblestone, it looks like he is walking on sand. It's a little disturbing.

Everyone is complaining about the footstep sounds of Crimson Desert ...it's the same grating sound no matter the surface ...hope they fix that
 

Cs2 - the source 2 water looks great but it isn’t a real sim as far as I’m aware. Still can’t do what was shown in that gif of astrobot,

Hydrophobia I haven’t personally played, I know the whole game is built around the water physics - but it still doesn’t do things quite as well.

Only game I’ve seen with truly great fluid simulation has been RDR2 on a high end PC. And I’ve only watched videos of it - other than that I’ve seen videos of some mod for water within Minecraft that looks crazy but Minecraft is voxels so I don’t think it fully counts
 

DanielG165

Member
Man, I was reminded last night on how Ghost of Tsushima really is carried heavily by its art direction. It’s not a bad looking game by any means, quite the opposite, but it’s no graphical powerhouse. The PC port is pretty simple and straight forward, no real significant differences from the PS5 version.
 

littlezoo

Neo Member
I get people saying water is too viscous looking in the movement - but at least it fuckin moves like a liquid which is better than the liquids in any other game in existence? At least that I’ve played. It’s progress - we can’t go 0-100% accurate water simulations




 
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winjer

Gold Member
It's a shame i cant run RT on my system because the game looks amazing even with path tracing off. This isnt even cinematic settings. Plain on High settings so basically PS4 quality running at a lower internal resolution than ps5. Still looks amazing.

oFClfMM.gif


This is the 4th or 5th game in the past two years ive not been able to play with ray tracing on. No matter how much i downgrade the visuals and resolution. even if i have 50% gpu available, the stuttering is unbearable. Whats the point of having a 3080 when i cant play Forza, re4, Hogwarts, Wukong, Star Wars with RT on? i even have a pretty decent CPU that crushes path tracing at 60 fps in cyberpunk.

You are probably running into vram limitations. Seem to be a recurring issue with a lot of cards from that era.
They have the power to run RT, but not enough vram.
BTW, what's your CPU?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You are probably running into vram limitations. Seem to be a recurring issue with a lot of cards from that era.
They have the power to run RT, but not enough vram.
BTW, what's your CPU?
That’s what i figured but my vram usage for black myth is definitely below 7. Sometimes even at 5.5 gb.

My cpu is an i7-11700k which is the main reason i never had any starfield issues compared to zen 2 processors. I also ran pt on cyberpunk at 60 fps.

Re4 was definitely a vram issue though.
 

winjer

Gold Member
That’s what i figured but my vram usage for black myth is definitely below 7. Sometimes even at 5.5 gb.

My cpu is an i7-11700k which is the main reason i never had any starfield issues compared to zen 2 processors. I also ran pt on cyberpunk at 60 fps.

Re4 was definitely a vram issue though.

That is really strange. Your CPU is still good enough.
And if it's not vram, I don't know what it could be.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Man, I was reminded last night on how Ghost of Tsushima really is carried heavily by its art direction. It’s not a bad looking game by any means, quite the opposite, but it’s no graphical powerhouse. The PC port is pretty simple and straight forward, no real significant differences from the PS5 version.
It’s not just GoT. It’s most last Gen games in general.

The asset quality, and lighting has taken a massive leap this Gen. Sadly those things don’t come across well on YouTube. Makes for some pretty gifs and screenshots though.
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
What’s another game with a real time fluid simulation like Astrobot?

Was too busy for a while with yardwork and forgot to reply so

Its rare, because 99.9% games use water as just a pretty thing

But here you go

From 2010


From 2011


Borderlands 2 physx 2012




Indie game






Now they aren't perfect, they don't look as good as the games that just make em pretty, they fall in the same boat, they're nowhere near "real" water as per the comment I was replying to. Nor is Astrobot at "real" water level yet. Fucking easy to understand. 🤷‍♂️
 

Jesb

Member
Outlaws can be a very good looking game but it is also filled with performance issues, so many glitches of things or people floating in the air, and the a.i is lol worthy. How is it that a 10 year old game in blacklist has way better a.i than this game. The a.i in blacklist was actually really good, go back and play it. I wish they’d give us a remake of that game with this engine. Would be one of the best games ever.
 
Was too busy for a while with yardwork and forgot to reply so

Its rare, because 99.9% games use water as just a pretty thing

But here you go

From 2010


From 2011


Borderlands 2 physx 2012




Indie game






Now they aren't perfect, they don't look as good as the games that just make em pretty, they fall in the same boat, they're nowhere near "real" water as per the comment I was replying to. Nor is Astrobot at "real" water level yet. Fucking easy to understand. 🤷‍♂️

I mean these all are worse than Astrobots water. But no shit it’s not exactly on the level of “real” water - the point of my initial post saying something moves like real water - meant interacting and moving at least somewhat like an actual liquid - which we don’t really do in videogames often. As you said 99% of games use water as a “pretty” thing - that doesn’t physically move or react to the player at all - I don’t see how that even qualifies as “pretty” cus the minute your character touches the water the whole thing is clearly bullshit. It’s immediately disqualifying imo - it’s water, it’s pretty common in the world, if it doesn’t react to a player character like a liquid how is it graphically impressive feels like a glorified fmv. It’s one of those things that needs physics to be truly convincing in any way - similar to good looking fire - the fire in the ps4 deep down demo is what set it apart. I’ve to this day never seen a game with fire like that.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Man, I was reminded last night on how Ghost of Tsushima really is carried heavily by its art direction. It’s not a bad looking game by any means, quite the opposite, but it’s no graphical powerhouse. The PC port is pretty simple and straight forward, no real significant differences from the PS5 version.
Always said that technically speaking it is probably the worse of all ps4 sony open worlds if you take the art design away.

I would even give the edge to horizon 1 because of the dinobots models that still look incredible today.

Btw I think outlaws looks noticeably worse than avatar from the same studio, that game was pretty even 90% of the time in the outdoors and the moment indoors were few and far between, the game knew its strenght.

Outlaws has dogshit human faces and digital acting but you have to engage with a lof of characters face to face and the outdoors and nowhere as detailed as avatar (that one also had some shitty rocks tho).
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
That is really strange. Your CPU is still good enough.
And if it's not vram, I don't know what it could be.
If its not vram then it has to be the CPU. Cyberpunk is just optimized as hell after the years CD project put into it. no other studio puts in that much effort especially when the latest AMD CPUs like the 7800x3d just crush anything you throw at it. Unless of course the MSI Afterburner vram graph is wrong, and its allocating more than the 10GB i have available despite only using 5-6 GBs. I saw this in hogwarts before i upgraded to 32 gb of system ram. It would use up around 13-14 gb on my 16GB ram and stutter like hell. i upgraded to 32GB and all of a sudden with RT on, it was taking 24GB of system ram alone. its possible these games are doing the same, but with vram.

I will upgrade my CPU and see what happens but i will have to get a new mobo which will turn it into a $500-600 purchase id rather just put towards a new GPU.
 

winjer

Gold Member
If its not vram then it has to be the CPU. Cyberpunk is just optimized as hell after the years CD project put into it. no other studio puts in that much effort especially when the latest AMD CPUs like the 7800x3d just crush anything you throw at it. Unless of course the MSI Afterburner vram graph is wrong, and its allocating more than the 10GB i have available despite only using 5-6 GBs. I saw this in hogwarts before i upgraded to 32 gb of system ram. It would use up around 13-14 gb on my 16GB ram and stutter like hell. i upgraded to 32GB and all of a sudden with RT on, it was taking 24GB of system ram alone. its possible these games are doing the same, but with vram.

I will upgrade my CPU and see what happens but i will have to get a new mobo which will turn it into a $500-600 purchase id rather just put towards a new GPU.

Do you have these stutters only when you turn on RT?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Outlaws can be a very good looking game but it is also filled with performance issues, so many glitches of things or people floating in the air, and the a.i is lol worthy. How is it that a 10 year old game in blacklist has way better a.i than this game. The a.i in blacklist was actually really good, go back and play it. I wish they’d give us a remake of that game with this engine. Would be one of the best games ever.
Black list is legit great. Conviction too. It's a shame the series died out. I would love to play a linear game like that in 2024. Star Wars just feels so clunky to play in comparison. No offense to Massive, but they dont really have great game designers. Ubisoft went from making fantastic prince of persia and splinter cell games to making decent to great (AC2, Far Cry 3, Black Flag) games to making bland ass boring mediocre as shit games in a span of two generations.

At least they are still really good at graphics.
 
Was too busy for a while with yardwork and forgot to reply so

Its rare, because 99.9% games use water as just a pretty thing

But here you go

From 2010


From 2011


Borderlands 2 physx 2012




Indie game






Now they aren't perfect, they don't look as good as the games that just make em pretty, they fall in the same boat, they're nowhere near "real" water as per the comment I was replying to. Nor is Astrobot at "real" water level yet. Fucking easy to understand. 🤷‍♂️

Self own. None except BD2, which I mentioned, come close.

Guess it’s not easy to understand huh?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Do you have these stutters only when you turn on RT?
yep.

Oddly enough, Star Wars Jedi Survivor and Callisto dont have this issue and i played them both at max settings and RT on. jedi only stuttered in the town areas but in normal levels it was fine and GPU bound from time to time so i would just downgrade to dlss/fsr performance before switching back to quality in other non GPU intensive levels.

Forza is unplayable with RT on. Constant stutters. played on ultra max settings native 4k 60 fps and still looked gorgeous.
 
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winjer

Gold Member
yep.

Oddly enough, Star Wars Jedi Survivor and Callisto dont have this issue and i played them both at max settings and RT on. jedi only stuttered in the town areas but in normal levels it was fine and GPU bound from time to time so i would just downgrade to dlss/fsr performance before switching back to quality in other non GPU intensive levels.

Forza is unplayable with RT on. Constant stutters. played on ultra max settings native 4k 60 fps and still looked gorgeous.

Check your GPU power usage. And clocks.
RT usually uses a lot more power. Your GPU might be throttling, either because of power delivery or temperatures.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Check your GPU power usage. And clocks.
RT usually uses a lot more power. Your GPU might be throttling, either because of power delivery or temperatures.
it's capped at 320 watts. so that might be it. temps are fine around 75 degrees.

tried increasing the power cap but its an MSI card and they dont let me do it. my 12GB EVGA 3080 was pulling upto 410 watts but it kept crashing in several games so i returned it for a more stable one. probably shouldve gone for the 12GB 3080 from MSI but microcenter didnt have that one in stock in 2022.
 

Bojji

Member
If its not vram then it has to be the CPU. Cyberpunk is just optimized as hell after the years CD project put into it. no other studio puts in that much effort especially when the latest AMD CPUs like the 7800x3d just crush anything you throw at it. Unless of course the MSI Afterburner vram graph is wrong, and its allocating more than the 10GB i have available despite only using 5-6 GBs. I saw this in hogwarts before i upgraded to 32 gb of system ram. It would use up around 13-14 gb on my 16GB ram and stutter like hell. i upgraded to 32GB and all of a sudden with RT on, it was taking 24GB of system ram alone. its possible these games are doing the same, but with vram.

I will upgrade my CPU and see what happens but i will have to get a new mobo which will turn it into a $500-600 purchase id rather just put towards a new GPU.

Wukong heavily uses hardware exclusive to Ada, it runs like crap on ampere and turing. 4070 is 40% faster than 3080 with RT in this game, while it's usually slower...
 

winjer

Gold Member
If its not vram then it has to be the CPU. Cyberpunk is just optimized as hell after the years CD project put into it. no other studio puts in that much effort especially when the latest AMD CPUs like the 7800x3d just crush anything you throw at it. Unless of course the MSI Afterburner vram graph is wrong, and its allocating more than the 10GB i have available despite only using 5-6 GBs. I saw this in hogwarts before i upgraded to 32 gb of system ram. It would use up around 13-14 gb on my 16GB ram and stutter like hell. i upgraded to 32GB and all of a sudden with RT on, it was taking 24GB of system ram alone. its possible these games are doing the same, but with vram.

I will upgrade my CPU and see what happens but i will have to get a new mobo which will turn it into a $500-600 purchase id rather just put towards a new GPU.

Are you sure the game is only using 5-6GB. Technopower reports much greater vram usage, especially with RT on.

Tr73DH0.jpeg
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
Self own. None except BD2, which I mentioned, come close.

So tech physx which is like over a decade old

Like this











What was that game 10 years ago pushing Astrobot physics? Send me a YouTube link so I can see

The only things were games running Nvidia physx (RIP:messenger_loudly_crying:). The GOATED Batman Arkham games had amazing smoke, particle and cloth physx and I believe some games pushed fluid simulations like borderlands with physx on but that’s it. And at the time those required a beast of a rig. I should know, I owned one and played them all. And even then as a middle schooler I longed for a mainstream console game with physics like the nvidia physx games. And here we are. And I couldn’t be happier.

What was the game 10 years ago pushing astrobot physics? Oh, physx games over 10 years ago... Glad you agree with me.

I agree it is a damn shame the fucking plebs complained non-stop that Nvidia was using this tech over a decade ago. We are now just seeing things remotely similar pop up in 2024. Astrobot fluid and Wukong volumetric smoke. Real shame Nvidia didn't continue to push this, fuck the peoples complaining about advanced options. Nobody was forced to use it. I wish Nvidia would do gameworks 2.0.
 
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So tech physx which is like over a decade old

Like this











What was the game 10 years ago pushing astrobot physics? Oh, physx games over 10 years ago... Glad you agree with me.

I agree it is a damn shame the fucking plebs complained non-stop that Nvidia was using this tech over a decade ago. We are now just seeing things remotely similar pop up in 2024. Astrobot fluid and Wukong volumetric smoke. Real shame Nvidia didn't continue to push this, fuck the peoples complaining about advanced options. Nobody was forced to use it. I wish Nvidia would do gameworks 2.0.

Buggyloop. The argument. Isn’t. If. The tech. Existed. It’s about. It being used. In an actual game. Do you understand now? Please dear god dear lord say yes…??

Also what was that 2nd part?
“yeah you don’t see it outside of physx games”

“YEAH YOU DONT SEE IT OUTSIDE OF PHYSX GAMES! GLAD YOU AGREE”

Like are we 12 years old now? That was something I stated myself
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
So tech physx which is like over a decade old

Like this











What was the game 10 years ago pushing astrobot physics? Oh, physx games over 10 years ago... Glad you agree with me.

I agree it is a damn shame the fucking plebs complained non-stop that Nvidia was using this tech over a decade ago. We are now just seeing things remotely similar pop up in 2024. Astrobot fluid and Wukong volumetric smoke. Real shame Nvidia didn't continue to push this, fuck the peoples complaining about advanced options. Nobody was forced to use it. I wish Nvidia would do gameworks 2.0.

I think the fact that most if not all AAA games are ignoring water simulations like Astros and physics like ToTK is simply disappointing. We all understand that if nitnendo can do physics on a PS3 caliber GPU then surely ps4 let alone ps5 couldve done it. the devs just didnt care. Same goes for astrobot's water effects.

That said, i think the fact that they are targeting ps3 era graphics allows them to push those other simulation effects. Horizon legos astro is not.

My son is currently playing Mario Rabbids Spark of Hope. It is a big downgrade from the first game which was top down and had tiny levels but looked absolutely amazing. And not just for a switch game. This one still looks good in comparison to say mario odyssey but its a clear downgrade that they HAD to make to make the game feel bigger and have a fully controllable camera.

Everything comes at a cost and while its easy to shit on horizon and hellblade's 2 water physics of lack thereof, the fact is that they are targeting fidelity way higher than astrobot. so clearly a dev choice to spend more on fidelity vs interactivity.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I think the fact that most if not all AAA games are ignoring water simulations like Astros and physics like ToTK is simply disappointing. We all understand that if nitnendo can do physics on a PS3 caliber GPU then surely ps4 let alone ps5 couldve done it. the devs just didnt care. Same goes for astrobot's water effects.

That said, i think the fact that they are targeting ps3 era graphics allows them to push those other simulation effects. Horizon legos astro is not.

My son is currently playing Mario Rabbids Spark of Hope. It is a big downgrade from the first game which was top down and had tiny levels but looked absolutely amazing. And not just for a switch game. This one still looks good in comparison to say mario odyssey but its a clear downgrade that they HAD to make to make the game feel bigger and have a fully controllable camera.

Everything comes at a cost and while its easy to shit on horizon and hellblade's 2 water physics of lack thereof, the fact is that they are targeting fidelity way higher than astrobot. so clearly a dev choice to spend more on fidelity vs interactivity.
That is what i always say, you can't have cartoony physics with high fidelity graphic or it would look terrible.

You can get away with zelda having trees that break always in 2 perfect parts, you can't do that when trees look like real trees in wukong.
 
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I think the fact that most if not all AAA games are ignoring water simulations like Astros and physics like ToTK is simply disappointing. We all understand that if nitnendo can do physics on a PS3 caliber GPU then surely ps4 let alone ps5 couldve done it. the devs just didnt care. Same goes for astrobot's water effects.

That said, i think the fact that they are targeting ps3 era graphics allows them to push those other simulation effects. Horizon legos astro is not.

My son is currently playing Mario Rabbids Spark of Hope. It is a big downgrade from the first game which was top down and had tiny levels but looked absolutely amazing. And not just for a switch game. This one still looks good in comparison to say mario odyssey but its a clear downgrade that they HAD to make to make the game feel bigger and have a fully controllable camera.

Everything comes at a cost and while its easy to shit on horizon and hellblade's 2 water physics of lack thereof, the fact is that they are targeting fidelity way higher than astrobot. so clearly a dev choice to spend more on fidelity vs interactivity.
Wukong has some degree of this with the cloud stuff going on - and rdr2 had the water on high end pcs. Astrobot is pretty limited but if you play it I feel like the graphics sans the sim/physics stuff, although stylized are not bad at all. In fact they’re better than I expected - certainly better than some games this generation, and they’re doing all this simulations at 60fps with zero slow down. Makes me think it is possible to put this type of stuff in a 30fps game that’s a looker and match the fidelity - like I think GTA 6 genuinely could do a water simulation, at the very least on PC. The developers just have to prioritize it more and put the work in
 
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Buggy Loop

Gold Member
I think the fact that most if not all AAA games are ignoring water simulations like Astros and physics like ToTK is simply disappointing. We all understand that if nitnendo can do physics on a PS3 caliber GPU then surely ps4 let alone ps5 couldve done it. the devs just didnt care. Same goes for astrobot's water effects.

That said, i think the fact that they are targeting ps3 era graphics allows them to push those other simulation effects. Horizon legos astro is not.

My son is currently playing Mario Rabbids Spark of Hope. It is a big downgrade from the first game which was top down and had tiny levels but looked absolutely amazing. And not just for a switch game. This one still looks good in comparison to say mario odyssey but its a clear downgrade that they HAD to make to make the game feel bigger and have a fully controllable camera.

Everything comes at a cost and while its easy to shit on horizon and hellblade's 2 water physics of lack thereof, the fact is that they are targeting fidelity way higher than astrobot. so clearly a dev choice to spend more on fidelity vs interactivity.

The devs don't care you are 100% right. Most don't do any gameplay related things with decades old well established physics, so they went for pretty. They can barely conceptualize a simple game with simple mechanics, let alone anything that would involve physics. Its also why I said originally that I don't think Nintendo would ever go with 1,000 objects falling in a Mario game, unless they find a gameplay loop around it, I don't see them spamming objects that are not related to the gameplay concepts.

I miss the days where gameworks would go for full fidelity AND interactivity. Performances for lower tier cards be damned, at least they age well. Replaying Arkham Knight a year ago with all settings maxed felt like I was playing something from modern times, the game is 9 years old.

UE5 might bring this feeling back with Niagara VFX, if it is well baked in the engine without that much of a rendering penalty, more devs might use it.
 
What did we ever think of FF7 rebirth? I wasn’t active on here as much when it came out

Was thinking about getting it as it’s supposedly a GOTY contender 90+ metacritic game and was curious how it stacks up technically since it is PS5 only
 

Bojji

Member
What did we ever think of FF7 rebirth? I wasn’t active on here as much when it came out

Was thinking about getting it as it’s supposedly a GOTY contender 90+ metacritic game and was curious how it stacks up technically since it is PS5 only

FF7 Rebirth looks like crap 75% of the time and amazing for the rest 25% (mostly cut scenes). Remaster was far more consistent (minus ruined midgard chapter I think).
 
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