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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
*big holiday tentpole game after historic AAA exclusive drought*

*a last of us 2 level remaster of a 7 year old game*

Jesus fucking Christ. At this point insomniacs $50 venom solo game spin off is a heavy hitter. Where the FUCK are the big guns?
I am pretty sure that was cancelled according to the same leaks that verified its existence. They are focusing on wolverine right now.

Jeff Grubb just said that there is another remaster that will be announced and this one is something no one will give two shits about. it could be gravity rush 2. so yeah, until dawn, hzd and gravity rush 2.

hopefully we see at least ghost of tsushima next week and its at least on par with star wars outlaws and avatar. otherwise i will probably have a meltdown and get myself permabanned.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This game has the interiors of Starfield/Outlaws with hudreds of enemies in the background, dozens in your personal space, and an insane amount of particle effects and blood splatter.

It is downright gorgeous even on base PS5. I am shocked its not getting more talk/hype/gifs in this thread. Fucking Robocop got more discussion.
Are you sure you quoted the correct post? Because FF7 Rebirth 2 doesnt have blood splatter or hundreds of enemies in the background or even dozens in your personal space. I played for around 30 hours and got to the golden saucer where i had a dance off with a flamboyant dude before quitting to preserve my sanity. I didnt encounter hundreds of enemies or dozens. I didnt see any blood but particle effects were ok at best. And no the interiors dont look like starfield and outlaws.

GHzRtyXWEAAilDN

GICViljXcAA4AOW



its a pretty looking game at times in the open world, but nothing more. The asset quality in interiors are shockingly poor. Worst than other UE4 games. i remember doing comparisons with hogwarts since star wars jedi and callisto werent open world and hogwarts simply had better asset quality. FF7 beat it in lighting but failed at basic stuff like shadows and AO coverage which is non-existent in most areas.
 

Represent.

Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Are you sure you quoted the correct post? Because FF7 Rebirth 2 doesnt have blood splatter or hundreds of enemies in the background or even dozens in your personal space. I played for around 30 hours and got to the golden saucer where i had a dance off with a flamboyant dude before quitting to preserve my sanity. I didnt encounter hundreds of enemies or dozens. I didnt see any blood but particle effects were ok at best. And no the interiors dont look like starfield and outlaws.

GHzRtyXWEAAilDN

GICViljXcAA4AOW



its a pretty looking game at times in the open world, but nothing more. The asset quality in interiors are shockingly poor. Worst than other UE4 games. i remember doing comparisons with hogwarts since star wars jedi and callisto werent open world and hogwarts simply had better asset quality. FF7 beat it in lighting but failed at basic stuff like shadows and AO coverage which is non-existent in most areas.
Meant to quote this post
The lighting, detail, and scale of the main hub station alone is bonkers.

In regards to Space Marine 2 lol. Yea, wrong quote

To which I responded below

This game has the interiors of Starfield/Outlaws with hudreds of enemies in the background, dozens in your personal space, and an insane amount of particle effects and blood splatter.

It is downright gorgeous even on base PS5. I am shocked its not getting more talk/hype/gifs in this thread. Fucking Robocop got more discussion.
 
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GoT definitely feels very… Artificial, almost like it’s a Kurosawa-inspired set, but not done nearly as naturally. Yeah the wind blows and the foliage billows, but the world doesn’t feel alive in it, wartime withstanding. Still a beautiful, if static feeling game.

I think that's solely related to the fact that there are so few npc's, enemies, and animals in the world ...
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Thought this was pertinent to this thread. given the more recent discussions on water and this particular game being posted on here.



I go both ways. i understand there is only so much gpu resources available and now with RT, there are even fewer CPU resources available. So i can see why devs might not want to make their games lack RT or lose that next gen look in favor of physics like this.

However, it's 2024. I think it's time we at least attempt to make games a little bit more interactive. I am watching a AC trailer that was not released on their official channel and it shows these really cool destruction physics or maybe they are canned animations. i dont care. it looks cool and i hope Massive goes for a slightly more interactive world next time. At the very least, have chairs and tables move when you throw a grenade in a room and have foliage catch fire if doing water simulation is too expensive.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
there is a lot of really cool footage here of the world design of AC Shadows, their destruction tech, new GI tech, and weather tech. I love the timelapse showing different seasons starting from summer switching to autumn then covering the area in snow. really cool stuff.



I also like the scenes when the wind kicks in. The only issue i have is that it looks last gen in terms of lighting and asset quality. Hoping Hex next year includes all this stuff but with next gen fidelity.
 

DanielG165

Member
there is a lot of really cool footage here of the world design of AC Shadows, their destruction tech, new GI tech, and weather tech. I love the timelapse showing different seasons starting from summer switching to autumn then covering the area in snow. really cool stuff.



I also like the scenes when the wind kicks in. The only issue i have is that it looks last gen in terms of lighting and asset quality. Hoping Hex next year includes all this stuff but with next gen fidelity.

The shot of autumn looked absolutely incredible, as well as the one where the female protagonist was overlooking the map during the spring or summer? I think this game with little to no HUD is going to be a sight to see.
 
there is a lot of really cool footage here of the world design of AC Shadows, their destruction tech, new GI tech, and weather tech. I love the timelapse showing different seasons starting from summer switching to autumn then covering the area in snow. really cool stuff.



I also like the scenes when the wind kicks in. The only issue i have is that it looks last gen in terms of lighting and asset quality. Hoping Hex next year includes all this stuff but with next gen fidelity.

Lighting is a strange one because it should look amazing

They bragged about their usage of real time Ray traced global illumination
 

Msamy

Member
Wow. Unity makes the best looking trailers but that’s about it.
Actually some totally free engines like godot developed on a fast way and have many new great features, unity major scoop of AA, indie and mobile games will have bigger competition they need to focus more on convice some big studios use unity engine on making AAA games with quality of that trailers
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Alex to the rescue lol



It's a shame how internet trolls pretty much made this game a flop by mercilessly trolling it because last year after its reveal, it was considered by far the most ambitious and next gen game at E3. The whole character design is too ugly fiasco really cost Ubisoft here, and the black protagonist in AC Shadows will do the same. She actually looks ok in gameplay, it's the cutscenes that are poorly lit with little to no hero lighting that gives the impression that shes ugly or manly. So many unforced errors by ubisoft this generation. Their heart is in the right place as they invested in next gen only, single player games while other publishers chased GaaS trash and cross gen games, but Avatar, Star Wars and AC shadows are all going to flop for one reason or another.

The water reflections in Star Wars are stunning. They are still using SSR as a fallback but I was really impressed by how good the streams looked in the first level.
 

Lethal01

Member
Alex to the rescue lol



It's a shame how internet trolls pretty much made this game a flop by mercilessly trolling it because last year after its reveal, it was considered by far the most ambitious and next gen game at E3. The whole character design is too ugly fiasco really cost Ubisoft here, and the black protagonist in AC Shadows will do the same. She actually looks ok in gameplay, it's the cutscenes that are poorly lit with little to no hero lighting that gives the impression that shes ugly or manly. So many unforced errors by ubisoft this generation. Their heart is in the right place as they invested in next gen only, single player games while other publishers chased GaaS trash and cross gen games, but Avatar, Star Wars and AC shadows are all going to flop for one reason or another.

The water reflections in Star Wars are stunning. They are still using SSR as a fallback but I was really impressed by how good the streams looked in the first level.



The gameplay just isnt very good
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
The gameplay just isnt very good
Pretty much, let's not find excuse for ubisoft mediocrity.

The game just isn't good unless you have the lowest standards for stealth and actions.

It's nice to walk into locations from the star wars franchise recreated with good graphics, but that's about it.


Hopufylly shadows is gonna be more than a digital tour to japan but also a decent videogame, because valhalla was fucking dreadful.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lol that Time Ghost demo is running on a 4090.

Time Ghost, developed with an unmodified Unity 6 engine, was showcased at Unite Barcelona 2024 running on a PC equipped with an Intel Core i9-14900K CPU and Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 GPU.

So basically next gen graphics. If we are lucky. I do think ND and GG can come close this gen. Yes, the 4090 is 3.5 faster than a PS5 but this is running at 4k.

I love the vegetation and rock geometry. I bet they are filling up that 24GB vram buffer with those assets. No way we are getting that this gen. But I do laugh at people who say games dont need to look better. This thing looks a generation above anything we've had this gen let alone last gen.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Lol that Time Ghost demo is running on a 4090.



So basically next gen graphics. If we are lucky. I do think ND and GG can come close this gen. Yes, the 4090 is 3.5 faster than a PS5 but this is running at 4k.

I love the vegetation and rock geometry. I bet they are filling up that 24GB vram buffer with those assets.
People say that ps6 is gonna be more powerful than a 4090.
 

Bitstream

Member
Time Ghost demo looks incredible. That said, I remember this Unreal Demo released back in 2011, it took until 2015 with the release of Arkham Knight for a game to come out with that level of fidelity. Then we have the Unreal Engine PS5 Demo that wasn't realized until Black Myth last month. Long story short, these engine promo videos are rarely realized in game form for many years, if ever. All that said, I'm excited to see what the next gen can deliver.

 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
People say that ps6 is gonna be more powerful than a 4090.
The pro is only 1.45x faster. Maybe a bit more in RT games.

If it took them 4 years and nearly $800 to get to 1.45x, how do they to 3.5x in 4 years? Doubt.

Moores law has finally caught up to these hardware manufacturers. We would be lucky to match the 4090 in 2028, let alone exceed it.

Not that it matters, all sony devs are working on 2027-2028 titles on the 10 tflops machine. we wont see next gen games until 2031 at the latest.
 
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Bitstream

Member
If it took them 4 years and nearly $800 to get to 1.45x, how do they to 3.5x in 4 years? Doubt.
Don't misconstrue the goals for the PS5 Pro. At it's core it is designed to run PS5 games at better resolutions and framerates. There's no doubts that they could have made the pro more powerful, but it doesn't make any sense for the machine to be any more powerful than it needs to be to deliver their goal, which is PS5 Fidelity Modes at 60fps.

That said though, the costs associated with making a comparable chip to the 4090, while trending downwards, won't be achievable in a sub $800 system for many years to come.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
The pro is only 1.45x faster. Maybe a bit more in RT games.

If it took them 4 years and nearly $800 to get to 1.45x, how do they to 3.5x in 4 years? Doubt.

Moores law has finally caught up to these hardware manufacturers. We would be lucky to match the 4090 in 2028, let alone exceed it.

Not that it matters, all sony devs are working on 2027-2028 titles on the 10 tflops machine. we wont see next gen games until 2031 at the latest.
I'm gonna go crazy with these random responses and being ignored the other 99% of times, can we return to the old times please?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Don't misconstrue the goals for the PS5 Pro. At it's core it is designed to run PS5 games at better resolutions and framerates. There's no doubts that they could have made the pro more powerful, but it doesn't make any sense for the machine to be any more powerful than it needs to be to deliver their goal, which is PS5 Fidelity Modes at 60fps.
Well, nearly every game they showed is running PS5 Performance modes at the same exact res but using PSSR to improve the visual quality. Only TLOU2 a last gen game is running the PS5 fidelity mode at 60 fps. HFW, Ratchet, Alan Wake 2, FF7 Rebirth are also using performance modes.

But I dont want to turn this into a PS5 pro thread. I am simply pointing out that the power increases have slowed down while the prices have gone up. The PS4 Pro was $399/399 euros and 2.3x faster. The PS5 Pro is $780/899 euros and only 1.45x faster. Double the price for less than half the performance.

Prices will only get more expensive by 2028 and Moores law will also slow down some more. I think 3x is a decent guess. 3.5x would be great and would put it alongside the 4090.
 
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Bitstream

Member
Well, nearly every game they showed is running PS5 Performance modes at the same exact res but using PSSR to improve the visual quality. Only TLOU2 a last gen game is running the PS5 fidelity mode at 60 fps. HFW, Ratchet, Alan Wake 2, FF7 Rebirth are also using performance modes.

But I dont want to turn this into a PS5 pro thread. I am simply pointing out that the power increases have slowed down while the prices have gone up. The PS4 Pro was $399/399 euros and 2.3x faster. The PS5 Pro is $780/899 euros and only 1.45x faster. Double the price for less than half the performance.

Prices will only get more expensive by 2028 and Moores law will also slow down some more. I think 3x is a decent guess. 3.5x would be great and would put it alongside the 4090.
Yeah, I don't disagree. While I sincerely hope that the PS6 hits a minimum 4090 or 5090 level of performance, there's very little chance it would happen in a PS5 sized console at $500. Hell, the 4090 by itself is 75% of the size as the OG ps5

sddefault.jpg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah, I don't disagree. While I sincerely hope that the PS6 hits a minimum 4090 or 5090 level of performance, there's very little chance it would happen in a PS5 sized console at $500. Hell, the 4090 by itself is 75% of the size as the OG ps5

sddefault.jpg
lol i never realized that thing was so huge. absolutely hideous. only 2x faster than my 3080 too.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think that's solely related to the fact that there are so few npc's, enemies, and animals in the world ...
Bingo. I dont know what Tsushima was like during the mongol invasion but i highly doubt the villages in that game had so few people and no big cities.

I am hoping they go to Tokyo with GoT2 and have a decent size city, and maybe the reason for the reveal's delay is that they are improving their NPC tech or focusing on larger battles.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Bingo. I dont know what Tsushima was like during the mongol invasion but i highly doubt the villages in that game had so few people and no big cities.

I am hoping they go to Tokyo with GoT2 and have a decent size city, and maybe the reason for the reveal's delay is that they are improving their NPC tech or focusing on larger battles.
I can already fucking tell that the npcs tech improvement are gonna be the same thing we had going from zero dawn to forbidden west, just more npcs roaming around doing different things but barely interactable, i don't expect sony to do a proper reacting city like an ac or rockstar or old bethesda titles.

Sony only make sanitized, controlled open worlds where they have the full control and funny glitch\bugs are kept to a minimum.

It's the sony way, high polish, not much interaction.

Happy to be disproved but yeah...

It's not a case that days gone had the most dynamic and interactable open world with some randomness in it and it was also the less polished sony open world with the most glitchy animations.
 
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alloush

Member
Lol that Time Ghost demo is running on a 4090.



So basically next gen graphics. If we are lucky. I do think ND and GG can come close this gen. Yes, the 4090 is 3.5 faster than a PS5 but this is running at 4k.

I love the vegetation and rock geometry. I bet they are filling up that 24GB vram buffer with those assets. No way we are getting that this gen. But I do laugh at people who say games dont need to look better. This thing looks a generation above anything we've had this gen let alone last gen.
Had to look it up on YouTube to watch it. Didn’t know there was one until I saw your comment.

Cmon people post that good stuff over here, share it with your graphics whore brethren!
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Had to look it up on YouTube to watch it. Didn’t know there was one until I saw your comment.

Cmon people post that good stuff over here, share it with your graphics whore brethren!
It was posted here. Check your ignore list lol
 
I can already fucking tell that the npcs tech improvement are gonna be the same thing we had going from zero dawn to forbidden west, just more npcs roaming around doing different things but barely interactable, i don't expect sony to do a proper reacting city like an ac or rockstar or old bethesda titles.

Sony only make sanitized, controlled open worlds where they have the full control and funny glitch\bugs are kept to a minimum.

It's the sony way, high polish, not much interaction.

Happy to be disproved but yeah...

It's not a case that days gone had the most dynamic and interactable open world with some randomness in it and it was also the less polished sony open world with the most glitchy animations.

You say it's a Sony thing but it's just where we're at with tech. We're almost just now at the point where games have great visuals. Sony's games are only slightly less interactive than the most "interactive" Rockstar open world in the scheme of things.
 

kevboard

Member
I'll say it again: we have reached real time CG quality graphics.



in fully scripted, 30fps videos that run on the highest end PC hardware available.

no AI, no physics, no worries about culling, LOD or streaming data, no code to handle interaction between different objects in the scene (collision, damage, etc.), and a fully controlled camera which you can use to maximise performance by tailoring every scene perfectly to fit into your render budget.

Halo 5's Cutscenes on an Xbox One look so good, that they can rival and often beat the fidelity of many current gen games, and they do so due to the exact same reasons.
 
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Thought this was pertinent to this thread. given the more recent discussions on water and this particular game being posted on here.



I go both ways. i understand there is only so much gpu resources available and now with RT, there are even fewer CPU resources available. So i can see why devs might not want to make their games lack RT or lose that next gen look in favor of physics like this.

However, it's 2024. I think it's time we at least attempt to make games a little bit more interactive. I am watching a AC trailer that was not released on their official channel and it shows these really cool destruction physics or maybe they are canned animations. i dont care. it looks cool and i hope Massive goes for a slightly more interactive world next time. At the very least, have chairs and tables move when you throw a grenade in a room and have foliage catch fire if doing water simulation is too expensive.

My problem with this is that it feels like at a certain point we need to start having physics simulations for water/fire/smoke/destruction/objects - in order to push graphics forward in general. Like when is that gonna be a part of games as just a normal evolution of technology? Never? Because they’re always gonna push fidelity, image quality and framerate over the world being actually interactive? What are we aiming for then?

I understand 10-15 years ago you’d have to develop a game solely around water to get fluid dynamics - but now we are at the point that it should just be a feature of water. As we move away from tricks and more towards accurate reflections of the real world - ie: baked lighting vs path tracing - physics/fluid sims should be a part of that. I look back at half life 2 and think what would have been so impressive about that game if it weren’t for the physics - how have we barely progressed in this area in games in general since that time, same goes for destruction.
 
in fully scripted, 30fps videos that run on the highest end PC hardware available.

no AI, no physics, no worries about culling, LOD or streaming data, no code to handle interaction between different objects in the scene (collision, damage, etc.), and a fully controlled camera which you can use to maximise performance by tailoring every scene perfectly to fit into your render budget.

Halo 5's Cutscenes on an Xbox One look so good, that they can rival and often beat the fidelity of many current gen games, and they do so due to the exact same reasons.

Exactly....no, this isn't an example that we've reached CG anything
 
I'll say it again: we have reached real time CG quality graphics.


The power of the 4090... Mindblowing, this is (literally) next gen.
Maybe I’m crazy but this doesn’t seem like that far away from that Amy Hennig UE5 marvel game
It's somewhat close, like what you'd expect from a GPU three times and a half faster than what's on PS5.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Played the star wars forest level and the level of detail reminded me of the time ghost demo. not as high fidelity and the lighting isnt as photorealistic, but man i didnt expect to come that close.

Massive is so fucking talented.

Edit: These gifs are killing all the detail on rocks and distant trees. I might need to get a different program to capture these gifs at a higher level of fidelity.

wFgEOjn.gif


BDhsoxM.gif
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You say it's a Sony thing but it's just where we're at with tech. We're almost just now at the point where games have great visuals. Sony's games are only slightly less interactive than the most "interactive" Rockstar open world in the scheme of things.
Rockstar took a step back with gtav and then two steps back with rdr2. so comparing sony to rockstar isnt going to make them look bad neccessarily.

you have to go back to games like Ac unity, far cry 2, and half life 2 to see devs actually pushing the interactivity.
 

Alex11

Member
Rockstar took a step back with gtav and then two steps back with rdr2. so comparing sony to rockstar isnt going to make them look bad neccessarily.

you have to go back to games like Ac unity, far cry 2, and half life 2 to see devs actually pushing the interactivity.
Damn, I recently replayed HL2 and episodes 1 & 2 after a very long time, and you are so right, besides graphics, obviously, it didn't feel at all like playing a clunky or outdated game, and the level of interactivity is amazing.
 
Rockstar took a step back with gtav and then two steps back with rdr2. so comparing sony to rockstar isnt going to make them look bad neccessarily.

you have to go back to games like Ac unity, far cry 2, and half life 2 to see devs actually pushing the interactivity.
Now I’ve seen it all

RDR2 being called comparable to Sony’s pathetic barebones open worlds, and being called less interactive than gta v
 

kikkis

Member
in fully scripted, 30fps videos that run on the highest end PC hardware available.

no AI, no physics, no worries about culling, LOD or streaming data, no code to handle interaction between different objects in the scene (collision, damage, etc.), and a fully controlled camera which you can use to maximise performance by tailoring every scene perfectly to fit into your render budget.

Halo 5's Cutscenes on an Xbox One look so good, that they can rival and often beat the fidelity of many current gen games, and they do so due to the exact same reasons.
Culling is necessary in scenes like this as is lod. Rest of your points run on cpu. Biggest reason is tailor made scenes in which you can maximize art when you don't have to worry about lightning looking poor in other direction etc.
 
Now I’ve seen it all

RDR2 being called comparable to Sony’s pathetic barebones open worlds, and being called less interactive than gta v
Yeah confused by this. How was rdr2 a step back? Like mission design wise? I know from a simulated open world standpoint it was pretty interactive wasn’t it? Perhaps I’m not remembering correctly
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Yeah some people need to replay every sony open world if they think they are just barely less interactable than a rockstar game or an old bethesda game...

Also rdr2 step back compared to gta5? How?
 
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mrqs

Member
Played the star wars forest level and the level of detail reminded me of the time ghost demo. not as high fidelity and the lighting isnt as photorealistic, but man i didnt expect to come that close.

Massive is so fucking talented.

Edit: These gifs are killing all the detail on rocks and distant trees. I might need to get a different program to capture these gifs at a higher level of fidelity.

PS5 Pro can’t come soon enough. This planet looks like absolute trash on Xbox Series X.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
You say it's a Sony thing but it's just where we're at with tech. We're almost just now at the point where games have great visuals. Sony's games are only slightly less interactive than the most "interactive" Rockstar open world in the scheme of things.
No it's just a design philosophy, npcs in infamous 1 were more involved than the npcs in infamous 3, ac games or rockstar games or some bethesda games had interactable\killable npcs since forever, but sony has the most sanitized cities\camps ever, the best you can do is bump to them and they barely react, everything feels fake.

And i don't buy the excuse that we play the hero so being rude with npcs would be stupid, you also play the hero in the ac games and except for valhalla, you can kill and create chaos inside cities.


Unless you were talking about straight up physics, then yes, we need more power.
 

RaduN

Member
Now I’ve seen it all

RDR2 being called comparable to Sony’s pathetic barebones open worlds, and being called less interactive than gta v

The RDR2 maps are amazing. Full of wonder and full of little details and animals and everything is just "alive".

But all that dissapears when you actual play the missions, completely. We are talking about some of the most linear, repetitive, restricted, downright boring mission design ever created in an open world game.

The game shines when you just ride your horse all over the map, that's it. Otherwise that beautiful "open world" is useless.

(edit: spelling big fingerrs)
 
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