-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Greece Agreement Reached
- Thread starter Syriel
- Start date
- Status
One reason to not come out with this is, besides pissing off the lenders and tipping the scales, is that they're senior so advocating for a reduction when they intend on collecting...tough to do.
Honestly, I'm not sure this report stops the runaway train. Would mean the actors are behaving logically and we all know logic went out the window a long time ago.
Edit: deal may fall through but I don't think the IMF reports will play a big roll if it gets killed, even though it's pretty damning.
On the question of why this report would come out now...keep in mind that while the EU hails from Brussels and the ECB is run from Berlin, the IMF is headquartered in Washington DC. The United States Treasury controls 16% of the vote on the IMF board. They don't have any say in EU or ECB discussions.
So....
Oh yeah, lots and lots of popularity...
What's with the uptick of support in some countries in 2015? This confuses me, you know, as a Canadian
This also crossed my mind, US wanted to stay out of it as long as possible and then stepped up when things looked bleak, put the pressure on to get this out there. Just feels too late.
Coriolanus
Banned
Hmm, i can see, say, the True Finns or equivalent anti-bailout parties in other states using this report to justify shooting down the deal, since it pretty much admits that they'll just be throwing the money away.
But of course the deal being beyond shit and the already-in-place animus for a repeal also play a huge factor
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Highly doubtful they'll waste time voting against the deal. They are likely to vote for it, and then anything IMF-related will play out later. Tsipras knows he can't remove the deal all of a sudden, and that the debt-related part can and is actually supposed to be dealt with later. That's part of the agreement actually if I'm not mistaken; to "discuss" the debt.
Coriolanus
Banned
It'll pass, obviously. Anything Tsipras puts up will pass as long as ND and Pasok back him up. The question is how much more fractured Syriza will get as a result.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
So far the rumored collapse of Syriza and Tsipras losing support have been highly exaggerated so I don't put much stock in that.
The German parliament will likely vote on Friday, if the deal passes the Greek parliament.
Randomizer123454444
Member
I heard that first batch of reforms should be passed by end of today (15th)? I'm not sure if it will happen. I haven't heard anything about our (Finland) timetable on this.
Well, it is easy, you just put German politicians in charge of the Greeks.
EU leaders should tell IMF they'll gladly talk about debt relief once the IMF has eliminated Greece's debt with the IMF. €20 billion should already be a huge help.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Weren't you saying "if you owe the bank a dollar it's your problem, if you owe the bank a million dollars it's their problem" in the previous thread?
The IMF has made a 20bn loan to Greece that, by their own analysis, they can't pay back. It's a European problem (I'd rather say a Eurozone problem) but it's very much the IMF's problem too.
Obviously this makes no sense, because the EU leaders have already demonstrated their unwillingness to do anything to make Greece's economy function. If the IMF gave them 20 billion euros of debt forgiveness, what's to stop the EU from tacking on another 20 billion euros of Greek asset seizure? (Besides, like, finding 20 billion more euros of Greek assets they want to seize, but I'm sure there's a list somewhere.)
The IMF should probably write down its debt, but not unilaterally, and not until there's a meaningful agreement that can help the Greek economy.
Unknown Soldier
Member
When the IMF is telling you that you done fucked up, you really done fucked up. I'm glad the IMF is at least saying what everyone else is thinking.
BBC said:
https://twitter.com/Hugodixon
Not even the short time situation is under control at this point.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Did this happen yet? It's almost 9am here (10am Greek time?)
CyclopsRock
Member
They said on LBC this morning that four votes were required in the Greek parliament by this evening - so perhaps the poster meant 7pm?
maquiladora
Member
The bridge financing will come from the EFSM, despite the UK's protests.
The problem is simply that the IMF debts are much more relevant to the Greek situation. Those EU debts won't be coming up for years to come, the IMF debts have to be paid now.
PdotMichael
Banned
Reminder that the IMF is the only institution that not provided any form of debt relief to date.
so.. where is the joke?
USA is a fiscal union while EZ is a monetary union.
Guess Schaeuble could also say "the grass is green" and everyone goes "LOL! HE THINKS THAT GRASS IS GREEN!!!!"
QuicheFontaine
Member
It did seem unusual that they would be meeting so early, but I just figured that this is a crisis and all...
CyclopsRock
Member
We'll see about that. Give us a ring-ding-ding, it's a beautiful day.
Too lazy. Culturally lazy.
I don't know. Parliaments will vote only on Friday, not guaranteed that the debate will end too soon and the payment deadline is on 20th. That much efficiency from European bureaucrats would be a wonderful thing to witness.
Isn't US actually both?
PdotMichael
Banned
Formally only to it's insular areas.
historical speaking: you could say that the US are / were both.
if the US is still a monatery union it would include stuff like that every state is a totally different and indepent own country.
Imho Kansas or Nebraska are only parts of the USA and not countries on their own like France or Germany.
And Obama would be the counterpart to our non-existing EU president who has the power to rule over independent countries for some reason.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I used to be pretty pro EU. But after this latest week, I don't give a fuck. I hope they use the EFSM to find the bridge financing. I hope the UK will be royally pissed off by this move and I hope that they will vote to leave the EU. The reasons for why the UK in particular wants to leave are mostly fucking stupid, but after this week, the EU deserves every future setback they get.
The EU was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.
The EU was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.
There's a gigantic difference between the EU and the monetary union.
Tbf one if the things that irritates me about how perfect the US system is suppose to be is that mist economists don't even discuss how the monetary and fiscal union affected Detroit.
In a sense America has already taken sovereignty from its states so it has no need to negotiate.
In a sense America has already taken sovereignty from its states so it has no need to negotiate.
CyclopsRock
Member
Btw it's obvious that they can use the EFSM without approval from the UK, but since the Tories won the election in the UK, all EU-related "stuff" that happens that impacts the UK has potential repercussions on the electorate and therefore the chances of the UK leaving. I still don't think it'll happen when it comes to a vote, but I can't imagine that too many people within the EU that want the UK to stay - which, realistically, should be anyone who wants it to be anything other than a German-dominated entity, plus Ireland - would like to see Osborne say to everyone "Hey guyz, don't worry, we won't be bailing out Greece because of the Eurozone's inability to manage its fiscal policy" only to then return and say "They made us pay!!" - it doesn't "look good" and, for those aforementioned people that care about the UK staying, the EU "looking good" is of more than egotistically importance.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's basically comparing a national state to a supernational union for the giggle.
Because in diplomatic language that document says "this deal is the worst idea ever as it is now". And it can only still be changed this week, before all the Parliaments vote on it. Not going to happen, though.
I don't see why is bad that MPs in all the Parliaments can vote having all the relevant info about it?
PdotMichael
Banned
A debt cut by the Eurostates means it's morelikely that IMF gets their money back and can leave Greece alone again.
Patrick S.
Banned
I'm watching the live debate in Spanish congress since 10:00 this morning. It's really interesting to hear what they have to say about Greece, and how they see Greek events compared to the recent past in Spain.
Randomizer123454444
Member
Another resignation:
https://twitter.com/ekathimerini/status/621285973159247872
Just a note, only 15 of those 107 are actual MPs so it's not completely over yet.
https://twitter.com/ekathimerini/status/621285973159247872
Just a note, only 15 of those 107 are actual MPs so it's not completely over yet.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Well, it's a little different in the IMF's case. Currently, the IMF has a European head and that gives Europe a fair bit of interest over how the IMF can work. There was a lot of fuss kicked up when Lagarde was nominated, with countries finding it very unfair there was an American head at the World Bank and a European one at the IMF - to most other countries, Europe and America are not really distinguishable foreign policy wise. If the IMF can't recoup their Greece money, then there's absolutely no chance a European will get a look in at either position for a long time to come, which definitely diminishes the political capital of both the European Union and individual European states. Given that, the EU should have a much larger incentive to help the IMF be repaid, the IMF therefore has a reason to stick to seeking Greece's debt in a way the EU does not. Put it this way - it's not the IMF that accepted Greece into a currency union then refused to support it.
Coriolanus
Banned
Politics.
Coriolanus
Banned
Why would they?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked