• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Greece Agreement Reached

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fizzelopeguss

Banned
Ikael said:
If anything, I am hoping for a Grexit only due to its pedagogical value. Yes, you can indeed recover your national soverignity and decide your own destiny. But it's not goin to be free, nor a pleasant ride, period, despite of what your politicians are trying to sell you.
Click to expand...


Yep, this is further proof that a true Europe-wide goverment body with the European citizenry acting as its ultimate soverign needs to happen , rather than keep it as a representation of different petty squabbling sovereign countries.
Click to expand...

Thank you for aptly demonstrating and reinforcing the reasons why i utterly loathe the Europhile.
 
G

genjiZERO

Member
Vagabundo said:
What a mess. Greece should focus on structure reforms. Now is the time to do it when everything is shit. Get a reform government in, get the books balanced. Keep trying to kick the debt down the road and when all the shit is a distant memory there will be a quiet debt write off.

Asking for one now just isn't going to happen. They will get one at some point, but really they need to get their shit in order. While doing the best to protect the most vulnerable.

I don't envy them.
Click to expand...

This right here. Greece needs real structural reform first and foremost. Without that they have little anti-austerity ammunition.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
KingSnake said:
If you don't know, why do you feel the need to correct me? Being also very categoric about it?

The info are there. Recapitalisation of the banks must happen as soon as possible.
Click to expand...


Because that's what the official information is.

What does "as soon as possible" mean exactly? You said it's a fire sale, I don't think that's true.
 
S

Sanjay

Member
Crab said:
In my view, bad. Almost all of Greece's loan goes towards paying off debt, and leaves them with nothing to actually restructure their economy with. That means we'll be doing exactly the same thing in about three years time, but the only difference is that then Greece will have ~50bn less assets and an extra three years of endemic poverty.

These assets will also probably be sold at below market price, so really they'll be giving up, say ~70bn assets for an ~82-6bn loan. It's not hard to work out how terrible a deal that is.
Click to expand...

Beggars can't be choosers.
 
L

LJ11

Member
They can't even manage the country, yet their going to manage a $50b fund. LOL

Edit: Previous number for privatizations was close to $25b by the end of the decade. I think they've managed a few billion.
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
Coriolanus said:
He's doing quite a bit more than that. Dude openly stated that yes, they had the plan, and no, tsipras never had the balls to support it.
Click to expand...
Tsipras probably lost his nerve when the extent of the action, and the irreversibility of it fully dawned on him. Not to mention that the guy has always been Europhile and such an action would fundamentally clash with his principles.
 
Nydius

Nydius

Member
2MF said:
Official statement from Tsipras:

http://www.primeminister.gov.gr/eng...lowing-the-conclusion-of-the-eurozone-summit/
Click to expand...

After reading this official statement, this was what came to my mind:

6uekqIu.jpg


Good luck, Greece. :(
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
LJ11 said:
Edit: Previous number for privatizations was close to $25b by the end of the decade. I think they've manage a few billion.
Click to expand...
Selling property in the current market is a fool's errand. The only people interested are hedgers or people with connections that can buy for cheap. Otherwise, it's too risky to invest and people willing to pay anywhere close to the real value are not interested right now.
 
H

hal9001

Banned
Exclusive: Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

Some really interesting behind the scenes perspective here.

In his first interview since resigning, Greece's former Finance Minister says the Eurogroup is “completely and utterly” controlled by Germany, Greece was “set up” and last week’s referendum was wasted.
Click to expand...

It is well known that Varoufakis was taken off Greece’s negotiating team shortly after Syriza took office; he was still in charge of the country’s finances but no longer in the room. It’s long been unclear why. In April, he said vaguely that it was because “I try and talk economics in the Eurogroup” – the club of 19 finance ministers whose countries use the Euro – “which nobody does.” I asked him what happened when he did.

“It’s not that it didn’t go down well – there was point blank refusal to engage in economic arguments. Point blank. You put forward an argument that you’ve really worked on, to make sure it’s logically coherent, and you’re just faced with blank stares. It is as if you haven’t spoken. What you say is independent of what they say. You might as well have sung the Swedish national anthem – you’d have got the same reply.”
Click to expand...

WhenJeroen Dijsselbloem, the European Council President, tried to issue the communiqué without him, Varoufakis consulted Eurogroup clerks – could Dijsselbloem exclude a member state? The meeting was briefly halted. After a handful of calls, a lawyer turned to him and said, “Well, the Eurogroup does not exist in law, there is no treaty which has convened this group.”
Click to expand...

“So,” Varoufakis said, “What we have is a non-existent group that has the greatest power to determine the lives of Europeans. It’s not answerable to anyone, given it doesn’t exist in law; no minutes are kept; and it’s confidential. No citizen ever knows what is said within . . . These are decisions of almost life and death, and no member has to answer to anybody.”
Click to expand...
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Nikodemos said:
Tsipras probably lost his nerve when the extent of the action, and the irreversibility of it fully dawned on him. Not to mention that the guy has always been Europhile and such an action would fundamentally clash with his principles.
Click to expand...

Problem is that dude should be a Greekophile first.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Isn't this good for the average greek person who stood to loose their entire life savings if the currency got converted? Now the greek people have 3 years to exchange their savings into something outside the reach of the EU. Or am I wrong about this?
 
L

LJ11

Member
Theonik said:
Selling property in the current market is a fool's errand. The only people interested are hedgers or people with connections that can buy for cheap. Otherwise, it's too risky to invest and people willing to pay anywhere close to the real value are not interested right now.
Click to expand...

Oh for sure, they won't get anywhere near what they probably should.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Hari Seldon said:
Isn't this good for the average greek person who stood to loose their entire life savings if the currency got converted? Now the greek people have 3 years to exchange their savings into something outside the reach of the EU. Or am I wrong about this?
Click to expand...

Sorta correct. It is more along the lines of "now they got 3 years (at best) to try to find a way out of the country as soon as possible".
 
M

My words exactly!

Member
This really is a nightmare. Tsipras proved that he lacked the spine to go with Varoufakis plan (the narrative that thee was no plan is wrong) and be done with it.
Now, selling out vital state infrastructure that PROFITED, how can we hope to reach surplus? Only oil remains, but i'm sure they'll have that in a next memonium. So more austerity of the kind that has been proved to not work, and have Germany and Baltic yesmen lecture you on top. Also, this made hyper corrupted ND/PASOK governments seem competent and GD as the last bastion of greek sovereignty (with tragic consequences as greek history has taught us). Dark times ahead...
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
LJ11 said:
Oh for sure, they won't get anywhere near what they probably should.
Click to expand...
I think the 25bn estimate was based on estimated value but the sale price was tiny if some of the sales were actually loss generating. (in that the sale required public investment slightly higher than the sale price)
 
L

LJ11

Member
Hari Seldon said:
Isn't this good for the average greek person who stood to loose their entire life savings if the currency got converted? Now the greek people have 3 years to exchange their savings into something outside the reach of the EU. Or am I wrong about this?
Click to expand...

My great uncle was going to get hammered. He's a US citizen but grew up and lived in Greece, came over to the US and went back upon retirement. Most of his assets are dollar denominated, but refused to move his money, would not do it, so if the banks went bust he was going to lose most of it. At least, if this goes through, he gets another shot.

But what does it say when you put the deal in the context you just did. "It's great that we can continue the bank run."

Who knows, willing to keep an open mind. Hard to undo the mistakes of 2010.

Theonik said:
I think the 25bn estimate was based on estimated value but the sale price was tiny if some of the sales were actually loss generating. (in that the sale required public investment slightly higher than the sale price)
Click to expand...

Yeah, they were IMF projections, which are good for absolutely nothing.
 
F

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
My words exactly! said:
This really is a nightmare. Tsipras proved that he lacked the spine to go with Varoufakis plan (the narrative that thee was no plan is wrong) and be done with it.
Now, selling out vital state infrastructure that PROFITED, how can we hope to reach surplus? Only oil remains, but i'm sure they'll have that in a next memonium. So more austerity of the kind that has been proved to not work, and have Germany and Baltic yesmen lecture you on top. Also, this made hyper corrupted ND/PASOK governments seem competent and GD as the last bastion of greek sovereignty (with tragic consequences as greek history has taught us). Dark times ahead...
Click to expand...
My heart is with you guys.
Next week I'll visit my relatives in Germany. I hope that there won't be "fun" discussions.
I can't keep my mouth shut on this if someone pdaises their hard work and disses the Greek. Fuck.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
LJ11 said:
My great uncle was going to get hammered. He's a US citizen but grew up and lived in Greece, came over to the US and went back upon retirement. Most of his assets are dollar denominated, but refused to move his money, would not do it, so if the banks went bust he was going to lose most of it. At least, if this goes through, he gets another shot.

But what does it say when you put the deal in the context you just did. "It's great that we can continue the bank run."

Who knows, willing to keep an open mind. Hard to undo the mistakes of 2010.
Click to expand...

Yeah the situation sucks, but at least now if you weren't smart enough to move your money out of greek banks before, you have 3 years to do so haha.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
PdotMichael said:
PIGS doesn't only refer to Eurostates. UK and Iceland were put under the PIGS umbrella at some point in the past.
Click to expand...

Only by people trying to make a cheap point. UK and Iceland are not comparable to Portugal, Spain, Italy and Greece, who are comparable amongst themselves.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
FoxSpirit said:
My heart is with you guys.
Next week I'll visit my relatives in Germany. I hope that there won't be "fun" discussions.
I can't keep my mouth shut on this if someone pdaises their hard work and disses the Greek. Fuck.
Click to expand...
I wanted to punch a colleague in the face last week.
 
T

TCRS

Banned
oti xero said:
I will definitely punch people if they say that Germany saved Europe.
Click to expand...

While I feel Germany has done the right thing for its citizens, it's hard to feel victorious. This is just such a sad clusterfuck born out of ideology. the Euro needs to go, bring back the Deutsche Mark!
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
TCRS said:
While I feel Germany has done the right thing for its citizens, it's hard to feel victorious. This is just such a sad clusterfuck born out of ideology. the Euro needs to go, bring back the Deutsche Mark!
Click to expand...

After the AfD has basically ripped itself apart, I wonder which German political party will jump on the anti-Euro bandwagon. All of them are thoroughly pro-Euro at the moment.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
Arksy said:
So the Greece people overwhelmingly voted no for the exact thing their government has been forced to agree to?

The EU is dangerously undemocratic.
Click to expand...
The democratically elected government of Greece caved in and has gone against the results of their own referendum. It's not the EU's job to hold the Greek government to account on that; it's Greek voters' job.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
The EU is indeed highly undemocratic but in what crazy world should a national limited refenderum have any impact on all other countries?
 
K

Kathian

Banned
Varoufakis said that Schäuble, Germany’s finance minister and the architect of the deals Greece signed in 2010 and 2012, was “consistent throughout”. “His view was ‘I’m not discussing the programme – this was accepted by the previous [Greek] government and we can’t possibly allow an election to change anything.

“So at that point I said ‘Well perhaps we should simply not hold elections anymore for indebted countries’, and there was no answer. The only interpretation I can give [of their view] is, ‘Yes, that would be a good idea, but it would be difficult. So you either sign on the dotted line or you are out.’”
Click to expand...

What a tool. New governments have to follow through on agreements.
 
D

Dilly

Banned
Arksy said:
So the Greece people overwhelmingly voted no for the exact thing their government has been forced to agree to?

The EU is dangerously undemocratic.
Click to expand...

Dangerously even, you say.

Sir Fragula said:
The democratically elected government of Greece caved in and has gone against the results of their own referendum. It's not the EU's job to hold the Greek government to account on that; it's Greek voters' job.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's not because Greece did a referendum that that's suddenly the only way how democracy functions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

WWE and Endeavor (UFC) announce 21 billion dollar deal.
40
3K
thefool replied
  • Locked
EU & Canada to sign free-trade agreement (CETA) on Sunday
2 3
139
18K
KDR_11k replied
U.S. detects new activity at North Korea factory that built ICBMs: source
28
2K
Vicetrailia replied
  • Locked
China warns Trump against abandoning Paris climate agreement
4 5 6 7 8
351
51K
Ogodei replied
EU and Japan to agree on trade deal next week
2 3 4 5
210
27K
Phrozenflame500 replied
Top Bottom