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[shysaursoft]

I don't enjoy playing an MMO-like game where I can't customize my character.

Traditionally, "moba" games have zero MMO-like qualities. There is no progression (outside the in-match *temporary* progression that is a part of the "power escalation" dynamic of a round). There is no permanence. League of Legends changed that by adding the Rune page and the Skills page, and I think that lessened the value of the genre. It's the main reason I don't play LoL. It'd be like adding a skill tree to Street Fighter, where you have to grind up to level 10 until you unlock Hadouken. LoL is the exception to the rule, generally, though it did bring the bad habit and a few games have adopted it too. Dota 2 has zero permanence. You start a match, and everyone is on the same footing, level 1, nothing from outside the match is brought in, except vanity cosmetics. In LoL, generally people can get away with playing a hero they like, no matter what. In Dota 2, that isn't possible even in general play - you play the counterpick, and you need to learn to play with a variety of heroes, carries, supports, etc. You can't just go 'I like Spirit Breaker and will play only him for all matches". Sadly. I like Spirit Breaker. But Dota 2's gameplay dynamics are built around a team of five people knowing a variety of heroes so they can pick and counterpick.

The "moba" is very much like a fighting game though, perhaps the first and only incarnation of the same idea as a fighting game, but on PC. Instead of dexterity checks via command inputs though, the interface revolves around skills with cooldowns. But just because a game has skills that have cooldown timers, doesn't make it an MMO either.

The "core" of MOBA is around zoning your opponents, map awareness, general tactics, strategy, and if you're playing Dota, denial. I'm not sold on denial being a valuable addition to the idea, but that's a thousand word essay on it's own.

But yeah, I wouldn't call a moba anything remotely "mmo like", or you might as well call Call of Duty "mmo like". It has character customization, levelling up, skill trees. But it's an FPS, of course. So is Call of Duty an MMOFPS?

 

[Ashodin]

That kind of gameplay style I'm just not into. It feels too complicated and/or strategic for my tastes. The whole match I'd feel like I'd be making mistakes if I'm not playing perfectly.

It's how I feel playing hearthstone sometimes.

Oh and that's another thing I don't like about those games - I can't pick one guy and play him forever (usually). I see LoL does it differently, but then you've got that rune and skills thing. Ugh.

I think the non-standardization really turns me off.

 

[shysaursoft]

Agreed - I shy away from Dota 2 because it sometimes feels like a spectrum of autism made visible to the human eye. It's just, too much. Like playing seven-level Chess while trying to balance a checkbook. I'm an iGo kind of guy, I like simplicity.

That's why I'm enjoying Heroes of the Storm - you pick the hero you like, and go for it. Reason being: you pick the hero, THEN enter the matchmaking queue. There is no real way (other than partying up with players beforehand and deciding on a strategy), to counterpick.

Heroes of the Storm is also much more straightforward, mano-a-mano fights. There's no item buying, there's no denials, there's no jungling, there's no last-hitting. You can pick a hero you've never played, and do generally okay, since all the skills are straightforward and powerful. It does result in slightly less nuanced gameplay, sure, but I liken it to Team Fortress 2.

I think Blizzard has the right idea with Heroes of the Storm, taking what has become a very bloated genre, and simplifying it to the very core ideas, cutting off a lot of the cruft (even moreso than LoL did compared to Dota). It reminds me a lot actually of last year's Halloween team game in Guild Wars 2, the one in the wheat fields.

Reaper's Rumble, that's what it was: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Rumble

Hearthstone is 90% luck, 10% deck. Never take a single round as meaning anything. You build a deck, play with it for 20 rounds, THEN decide if the deck has holes, issues, mana issues, draw issues, Taunt issues, etc.

 

[Ashodin]

Agreed - I shy away from Dota 2 because it sometimes feels like a spectrum of autism made visible to the human eye. It's just, too much. Like playing seven-level Chess while trying to balance a checkbook. I'm an iGo kind of guy, I like simplicity.

That's why I'm enjoying Heroes of the Storm - you pick the hero you like, and go for it. Reason being: you pick the hero, THEN enter the matchmaking queue. There is no real way (other than partying up with players beforehand and deciding on a strategy), to counterpick.

Heroes of the Storm is also much more straightforward, mano-a-mano fights. There's no item buying, there's no denials, there's no jungling, there's no last-hitting. You can pick a hero you've never played, and do generally okay, since all the skills are straightforward and powerful. It does result in slightly less nuanced gameplay, sure, but I liken it to Team Fortress 2.

Hearthstone is 90% luck, 10% deck. Never take a single round as meaning anything. You build a deck, play with it for 20 rounds, THEN decide if the deck has holes, issues, mana issues, draw issues, Taunt issues, etc.

Yeah I had heard about HoTS being that way, I'm interested, especially since I know Blizzard's heroes well.

 

[Hawkian]

Heroes of the Storm is also much more straightforward, mano-a-mano fights. There's no item buying, there's no denials, there's no jungling, there's no last-hitting. You can pick a hero you've never played, and do generally okay, since all the skills are straightforward and powerful. It does result in slightly less nuanced gameplay, sure, but I liken it to Team Fortress 2.

That sounds good to me!

Reaper's Rumble, that's what it was: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Rumble

this was fun as hell, I really wish I'd played it more.

how's the laaaaaag i'm almost out of work

 

[BraXzy]

MOBA's have shitty communities but I have yet to play a game in the same league as Dota 2 for it's game mechanics and multiplayer strategy.

Sure, it takes a hundred or so hours just to get a decent grip of the basics. But I liken it to the hundred or so hours it might take you to hit a level cap and get the juicy bits in an MMO (At least until I played GW2).

But hey, it isn't for everyone. I'd just say it's worth a damn good go. It took me a couple tries to tempt my buddy into trying it, and now he has double the play time that I do. No one match is the same, tactics/meta constantly changes and you can customise your character, just not quite in the same way as you can in say GW2.

 

[Gothos]

Wohoooo, 12 points away from 1000 chest Gonna be mine tommorow. From other news I just need 2 locations for Explore Kryta - Tier 4 achievment, omg. How do I find those... :/

 

[Levyne]

Wohoooo, 12 points away from 1000 chest Gonna be mine tommorow. From other news I just need 2 locations for Explore Kryta - Tier 4 achievment, omg. How do I find those... :/

Generally the missing locations are interior caves or such that have no pois, etc. It's been forever since I've had to find them, though. I'm sure there's a list or a map you can cross reference.

 

[Hawkian]

Thanks for showing how MOBAs have no real definition; I was getting confused. I understand conceptually the building/resource management of an RTS, but if you remove those, then what do you have? I should actually give one a try though; they're probably fun.

Regarding Gigantic, trailers with no actual game footage are one of my pet peeves.

There was like 1.4 seconds of gameplay at the very end!

I just stumbled onto the Krytan Explorer achievement somehow a few weeks ago, blew my mind.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

I think the casual friendly approach of HotS is quite deceptive actually. You might think it's a lot more relaxed and stuff than other games because the entry requirements on emchanics and knowledge are a lot lower with the removal of items, last hitting, denying, lane controlling and so on but in the end there is a very large difference between certain setups than others. If you end up with 0 supports and the enemy team has a 2support 2assassin/certain specialists 1tank setup, you're probably going to lose unless you outskill your opponent by a very large amount.

The fact you can't coordinate picks is actually as much as a problem than it is a good thing. Sure you get to play the hero you want when you want, but it also means you can't actually build a balanced team unless you group with other people(in which case you could pick any hero you want regardless of the game), the game only tries to not stack the classes type too much but doesn't have minimum requirements so you can end up with a pretty crappy team.

That said the game that was discussed last page(giganto or whatever) says it's a MOBA but it's not like a typical "LoL" MOBA, it's 3rd person and it looked a lot more objective oriented and without creeps and stuff(has some AI mobs though). Felt more like Monday Night Combat or something similar than dota/lol. MOBA is after all, a very vague acronym. The video they showed(might not have been linked here, it's in the main thread on the gaming forum) actually made it look like it plays a bit like sPvP in GW2 if you prefer that comparison.

 

[Gothos]

Generally the missing locations are interior caves or such that have no pois, etc. It's been forever since I've had to find them, though. I'm sure there's a list or a map you can cross reference.

Probably. Looked around the map and found one fogged area and it was one of the two last remaining locations. 1 to go but I have no idea where it can be - it will drive me crazy :/

 

[BraXzy]

Someone help me decide on which Ambrite and which Ley Line weapon skins to pick. For Ambrite, I'm leaning towards the Warhorn or the Rifle and for the Ley Line I'm leaning towards the Staff maybe for my newly made Asuran Elementalist.

In terms of how Dota 2 plays, imagine that each hero is like a different GW2 class that plays completely different to any other. And there's over 100 of them. They aren't as complicated in terms of abilities but it's the builds and the team composition that are the big tactical part.

 

[Levyne]

Someone help me decide on which Ambrite and which Ley Line weapon skins to pick. For Ambrite, I'm leaning towards the Warhorn or the Rifle and for the Ley Line I'm leaning towards the Staff maybe for my newly made Asuran Elementalist.

harpoon gun

and harpoon gun

 

[Kos Luftar]

Wohoooo, 12 points away from 1000 chest Gonna be mine tommorow. From other news I just need 2 locations for Explore Kryta - Tier 4 achievment, omg. How do I find those... :/

Chantry of Secrets in Bloodtide Coast might be one

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Probably. Looked around the map and found one fogged area and it was one of the two last remaining locations. 1 to go but I have no idea where it can be - it will drive me crazy :/

I did it a couple days ago, I was missing like 4areas on my 100% map completion guardian, I used this page on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Bluestone/Explorer

It shows all the explorable zone. So you open achievements, figure out which region has the missing one, then open the region thingie and check every map. The areas are listed from top left to bottom right so you just go through the list until you find one that's not on your ingame map. Takes a bit of time but not so bad. After that you can just click on it to get the location and how to get there, a bunch are puzzle related and stuff.

 

[BraXzy]

harpoon gun

and harpoon gun

Your suggestions are moist, I don't like it.

 

[shysaursoft]

That said the game that was discussed last page(giganto or whatever) says it's a MOBA

I've actually not seen the developer call it a moba at all. The official site calls it a 'team action game'. I know a lot of vidjagames sites have been previewing Gigantic as a "moba", but the developers as far as I know, have never called it that themselves.

Checked, couldn't find a thread about Gigantic on GAF at all actually. You sure you're not confusing it with Battleborn?

 

[Pyros_Eien]

I've actually not seen the developer call it a moba at all. The official site calls it a 'team action game'. I know a lot of vidjagames sites have been previewing Gigantic as a "moba", but the developers as far as I know, have never called it that themselves.

Checked, couldn't find a thread about Gigantic on GAF at all actually. You sure you're not confusing it with Battleborn?

You might be right I don't know if the devs called it MOBA, just the various press did so assumed that's how they were positionning themselves. Anyway GAF thread is there:
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=855652
From that thread gameplay video is there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85zbb4YWHSI

 

[shysaursoft]

You might be right I don't know if the devs called it MOBA, just the various press did so assumed that's how they were positionning themselves. Anyway GAF thread is there:
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=855652
From that thread gameplay video is there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85zbb4YWHSI

Ah, thanks! I searched like crazy for a tread - gaf search is useless.

Ooh, I am loving the look of this - especially the movement.

I actually really liked Monday Night Combat, but I *hated* Super Monday Night Combat. This looks closer to the original MNC, in spirit anyway.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

Ah, thanks! I searched like crazy for a tread - gaf search is useless.

Ooh, I am loving the look of this - especially the movement.

Haha I did a search for MOBA and it's the first one that popped, go figure.

 

[shysaursoft]

The details for those who don't have time to watch the video:

• Multiple maps
• No set base for respawn. You respawn on an airship that moves around the map during the game.
• No lanes. No towers. More about territory control points.
• You summon the minions yourself at the control points. Larger more powerful ones take longer to summon. Allies being nearby speeds summoning. Summoning minions on the enemy's side of the map takes longer.
• Different minions have different abilities. Some ambush. Some heal your team.
• Hero customization comes from branching skill points as opposed to item buying.
• You power up your guardian to attack the other team's guardian and make it vulnerable. When vulnerable you need to wail on it for as long as you can.
• Didn't catch specifically how you power up your guardian.
• The guardian has 3 "wounds" which are basically health bars. Once you knock out a health bar, they get up and are no longer vulnerable. Vulnerability is also timed so they can be defended.
• When not vulnerable, the guardian will attack nearby enemies.
• When the game has gone on for a certain amount of time or if one of the guardians get's down to it's last wound, "The Clash" activates. Both Guardians break in to the middle of the map and the arena becomes smaller and more concentrated.

So from the looks and sounds of it, this is more of a PvP arena battle game with a lot of MOBA influences as opposed to the other way around.

So yeah. Not a MOBA at all actually, not in the traditional Dota/LoL sense anyway.

Stunning. I love a solid artstyle.

 

[Slightly Live]

I hear Guild Wars 2 is a good game.

 

[Hawkian]

Whoa there's actually a ton of gameplay to watch.

So yeah. Not a MOBA at all actually, not in the traditional Dota/LoL sense anyway.

i want it!

 

[shysaursoft]

I hear Guild Wars 2 is a good game.

Yeah, but we all know that already.

 

[Hawkian]

I hear Guild Wars 2 is a good game.

It is right?? Is it playable at the moment or is the asshole still DDoSing away

 

[shysaursoft]

It is right?? Is it playable at the moment or is the asshole still DDoSing away

I think it's fine at the moment, but the person who's been claiming responsibilities for the outages seems to be most active between 8 to 11 EST, so they might not have started up again. Last update from them was 2 hours ago, claiming their "ddos network" is down for maintenance.

 

[Moondrop]

There was like 1.4 seconds of gameplay at the very end!

I stand corrected. Initiating hype sequence.

harpoon gun

There aren't any underwater ambrite weapons, unfortunately, but I get it. Nevertheless I'm contemplating getting a full set for my ranger. Despite the "permanency" of S2 content and the crash in ambrite prices, I'm still not convinced these materials will be easily obtainable in the near future, so I'm going to start farming Dry Top.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Chantry of Secrets in Bloodtide Coast might be one

Also remember racial armor sets, even the cheap ones, are pretty easy AP to get.

 

[Ashodin]

Bug Fixes:

• Fixed an issue in The Concordia Incident in which the On Swift Wings achievement could be earned after the instance was completed.
• Fixed a bug preventing PvP rank 80 from resetting once completed.
• Fixed an issue that prevented Belinda’s Greatsword from appearing.
• The “Cull the encroaching dust mites threatening the Zephyrites” event in Dry Top has been rebalanced to accommodate higher scaling. The rewards for infinitely respawning creatures has been lowered.

stuffs

oh man they nerfed the sand from the dust mites noo

 

[Levyne]

It's more to stop people standing on top of the spawn point and killing several dozen of them twice a sandstorm for a chance at charged lodestones.

 

[Hawkian]

yeah yeesh, never thought of that. had it impacted the lodestone economy yet?

 

[Levyne]

Not really. It helped me get my first couple ascended armor pieces though

 

[LumpOfCole]

 

[Granadier]

I have an extra PS3 NA beta code. Lemme know if you want it before I throw it up for the beggars in Gaming.

 

[LiveSpartan235]

I have an extra PS3 NA beta code. Lemme know if you want it before I throw it up for the beggars in Gaming.

If you still got it I'll take it

 

[shysaursoft]

Bear Quaggan

Lump plz.

 

[Ashodin]

Once you see it...

 

[Slightly Live]

Once you see it...

What armour is that? Those are nice gloves.

 

[Ashodin]

What armour is that? Those are nice gloves.

Bottoms are flame legion, top is some weirdo barbarian armor, and gloves are vigil stuff

 

[Slightly Live]

Bottoms are flame legion, top is some weirdo barbarian armor, and gloves are vigil stuff

Thanks!

 

[Complistic]

Once you see it...

kinky

 

[Granadier]

Once you see it...

Not seeing it. Can I get a big, red arrow?

 

[Zeroth]

Not seeing it. Can I get a big, red arrow?

.

 

[Ashodin]

The pants are so lowcut you should see pubes.

 

[Granadier]

The pants are so lowcut you should see pubes.

The man manscapes.

 

[Stephen_drewz]

Wish my internet didn't die mid-way through the Dragon Bash festival last year. Ended up having on-going issues for bit over 3 months which is why I never went back to the game in the end, logged into my Level 15 Warrior which I had just started before that particular event and saw all the fireworks and taffy etc from when I was attempting to get the wings. Sad times.

 

[Retro]

The pants are so lowcut you should see pubes.

.....Only you could be so fixated on your character's groin.

Wish my internet didn't die mid-way through the Dragon Bash festival last year. Ended up having on-going issues for bit over 3 months which is why I never went back to the game in the end, logged into my Level 15 Warrior which I had just started before that particular event and saw all the fireworks and taffy etc from when I was attempting to get the wings. Sad times.

If it's any consolation, Dragon Bash was my least favorite update. The best parts were Dragon Ball and the theme song.

 

[Stephen_drewz]

.....Only you could be so fixated on your character's groin.



If it's any consolation, Dragon Bash was my least favorite update. The best parts were Dragon Ball and the theme song.

I did manage to play some Dragon Ball which was quite fun. Got prety good at it too. I did like the look of the wings though. I had only started the game about a week before it, so haven't experience any other events.

 

[Kos Luftar]

Once you see it...

 

[gamergirl85]

Once you see it...

GROSS, Ash, just gross!