-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
- Thread starter Retro
- Start date
- Status
shysaursoft
Member
I was wondering the same thing - but I suspect one counterargument might be, the 'colour buff' from the Watch Knights - since it was a band-aid - isn't something Anet wants to rely on too heavily or people will come to expect it. You can only use game systems so far to make up for people's own lack of self-organization, before it becomes nothing but a rote DBM-style 'now do this' event.
Lurk has been actively promoting tanking to "win" - Which will completely backfire when we lose to YB straight up. Sad thing is I liked Lurk but I guess he's got a fanbase which went to his head. If we do lose this week I'm almost tempted to troll while he commands next week. I have a nice stack of regular ballistas in my bank.
To clarify, I haven't actually been roflstomped by Liadri yet this season. I tried her twice with my mesmer, but that didn't seem promising. She and my warrior will face each other again, and fun will not be on the table.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Anet kind of brought this on themselves due to how the mechanics at the beginning of the game worked and how you would expect mechanics to work.
I understand that they want to train players, but just taking the same game and adding an encounter that forces people to do something the game hasn't taught them is just kind of bad game design.
Their focus on large group events is one of the main things that soured me on this game. It's just not fun dealing with an understandably unorganized group trying to organize something that wasn't even really laid out to begin with. You get whiners, people whining about whiners, and a whole lot of failed events with little satisfaction.
I disagree. You have to start somewhere. And this is it.
shysaursoft
Member
"Were we so different? They're a young species. They have much to learn. But I've seen goodness in them."
I do agree - Anet brought this upon themselves. And now they're working to fix it. One step at a time. It'll likely take a year to change the gestalt mindset. But at least they're trying. I've seen devs give up on a community. That's way worse.
As much as I loathe to say it, part of the issue derives from the fact that they made it so that every class can do everything. I'm no fan of the holy trinity either, but when everyone's role is essentially "to attack" people are just going to gang up and attack things. The way the classes are laid out just do not promote the kind of gameplay Anet is trying to force.
Their philosophy works great in dungeons and small group encounters, but just falls apart when events are large and are timed. Zerking and Zerging are how you'd expect do those. This is a core issue that can't be solved by just teaching the existing player base how to do something. This is something where the design they're implementing doesn't fit the tools they've given. A new player would not find their new goals to be as evident.
When you're dealing with a large, un-unified group, every encounter is going to work this way, for the rest of time. People will immediately zerg it, since that's the most obvious solution when people don't know how to tackle event. There's nothing wrong with this: it's expected behavior due to the mechanics of the game. Then you'll have people who "figure it out" and want to do it, but as more people come in, less of them are up to date on how to beat it. So you'll always deal with people who are trying get up to speed and others who are trying to maintain complete control. This is going to stay frustrating. There's nothing anet can do to alleviate this.
shysaursoft
Member
I disagree, but only time will tell of Anet implements some of the solutions that have been mentioned before. I think you're selling Anet short. They've been nothing if responsive and iterative in their designs, and trying to steer this new idea they went for. Expecting them to have gotten it right, out of the gate, when they were literally the *first* MMO on the market to try an all-damage self-sufficient roles system like GW2, is a bit unfair.
I really am having deja-vu now to when the new Teq fight came out. I bet if I go back through the old OT and find some posts, we'll all be able to laugh at how short-sighted a lot of predictions were.
If there's one thing you can't do with an MMO, is assume how things are now, is how they will be in two years. Nobody needs to be told just how radically different WoW became over the last decade. The sheer scope of changes, nobody could have predicted in the first few years.
Unless those future changes involve completely changing the class system, I disagree.
However, I get that people have fun in trying to organize the chaos. Power to them. Just don't complain when people "aren't getting it", because honestly it's not always the players' fault. Sometimes the game just isn't designed all that well.
The Dolyak race will never get old, I was one of the first 10 to complete this time around, makes a change from my first time where I got through with a second to go!
I also finished the achievement meta whatsit, Mini Panda is now mine! Kinda expensive but it looks so cool. I'm now gonna save up for the gas mask skin 1000 tokens to go QQ.
I also finished the achievement meta whatsit, Mini Panda is now mine! Kinda expensive but it looks so cool. I'm now gonna save up for the gas mask skin 1000 tokens to go QQ.
Just 90 sanctum runs to go right XD
Don't bother. There are better ways to spend your time and we still need everyone next week all week for a strong finish regardless of who we get at this point. I only know from the SBI forums that it should only be mostly the sheep left following Lurk now so he's pissed off a lot of the regulars. On the other hand... we have a hell of a lot of sheep.
UltimateIke
Member
I bragged about it in guild chat last night, but after dozens of Gauntlet fights, I finally got a bag that dropped something more than Festival Tokens.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monocle_%28light%29
It just sold today.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monocle_%28light%29
It just sold today.
LumpOfCole
Member
Lurk and others wanting to tank this week just make me want to play WvW less. I don't care about placement (as long as we get the 5th place or higher Mistforged Hero selection), but I'd rather concede the Mistforged Hero skins than lose purposely in WvW after helping the server with golems and whatnot to capture SM and keeps.
I'm not up on SBI's drama (and don't bother filling me in), but tanking is potentially in the best interest of winning. This is because the WvW tournament uses a bastardized version of the Swiss tournament structure (intended for binary competitions in which each opponent never faces the same opponent twice). If that upsets you, blame Anet.
shysaursoft
Member
Agreed. Like I've said perhaps ten times now in this thread: there are issues in terms of UI-centric communications, better in-game explanations for how the fights work, and so on. I'd be the first in line to complain to Anet about about a hundred things regarding encounter design and issues with their gameplay systems.
The part I don't agree with, is that the 'all damage' nature of GW2's brawler combat is *intrinsically* and irredeemably broken. I don't think it is. I do think encounter design needs to be worked on to better utilize the nature of GW2's role system. But I don't agree that the only way forward is for Anet to throw the entire core conceit of the game's combat - the entire damn reason I play it - out with the bathwater.
I'm not playing GW2 for the lore. I'm not playing it for Achievements. I'm not playing it for PVP or WvW.
I play it for the PvE, to experience the content, and to take my character - and how I know to play him - through the content. Does the content fail in some areas? Yes. But the combat system used to take me through that content, is 99% fine in my book. Even in large-scale encounters. ESPECIALLY in 5-man and less encounters. There is work to be done, but not in the direction I think you think it needs to go.
But again, only time will tell. I the end, it doesn't matter what you or I think, only what Anet ends up doing based on how they feel things need to go, and how they feel they need to respond to the community.
Meanwhile: Screw Glint's Challenge man. I'm sorry, I like GW1 as much as the next guy, but so much of it is utter BS it's crazy. It's no wonder Anet didn't want to do a direct follow up - the damn game sometimes feels like doing taxes.
Ugh, pretty much!
I bragged about it in guild chat last night, but after dozens of Gauntlet fights, I finally got a bag that dropped something more than Festival Tokens.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monocle_%28light%29
It just sold today.
Wow nice! I've been trying the gauntlet but failing miserably. I've only managed the first guy so far haha! I watched a few Thief videos online doing it and they are all hitting 5x the damage I am, being uplevelled. So I doubt I'll get anywhere close to beating them all.
Well said, and thank you!
Personally, I like Lurk, and he is a friend of mine. Regardless of what he says or thinks, he is still only one man with a Commander Tag. If you don't like what hes doing or saying while commanding, there are other Commanders available. Last night, there were two tags on map, and two very differing opinions about what should and shouldnt happen. Thankfully, the two commanders were respectful of each other, and were totally cool to allow people to make up their own minds.
We are all adults... we get to make a choice either to follow or dont. Just because Lurk is being more vocal than others about wanting to take 2nd place shouldnt take away from his skills as a good commander. Ive been both sickened and saddened by all the hate from people toward one person simply because he is making his position clear.
Now I realize that my "rant" doesnt apply to most people in GAF, and I am in no way pointing fingers... Im just tired of people thinking that one man can either make or break the entire server.
*stepping down from my soap box now*... My apologies if i have offended any .. twas truly not my intent.. NOR is it my intent to step on the toes of those with opposing views. I consider you all my friends.. and we dont always have to agree on everything.
well I totally agree with that for one and that's regardless of how I feel about winning or losing in the matchup. and just as a philosophical extension of that I do not think it's cool to troll or advocate trolling a commander just as a result of disagreeing with them. The disagreeing with them itself is fine and even necessary of course, but trolling them is inappropriate almost 100% of the time (really anywhere short of them being a complete asshole or abusive to players).
really it should apply to any individual commander. agree or disagree with their decisions and views, but by and large they are the ones facilitating the experience for everyone else.
I don't think A-net needs to revamp the class system.
I think that a better solution would be to continue to implement events, fights, and challenges that rely on tactics and coordination similar to the revamped Taco fight. Having different goals for groups of players to work on in order to complete a larger task will allow the allow the differentiation that the "holy trinity" gives, but it wouldn't exclude any player or class based on the choice they made on the character creation page.
This is just my opinion based on my limited experience.
I think that a better solution would be to continue to implement events, fights, and challenges that rely on tactics and coordination similar to the revamped Taco fight. Having different goals for groups of players to work on in order to complete a larger task will allow the allow the differentiation that the "holy trinity" gives, but it wouldn't exclude any player or class based on the choice they made on the character creation page.
This is just my opinion based on my limited experience.
Found a total make over bag just now and decided to redo my Character .
skimpy!
Yep, they are pretty dumb if they think it's a guaranteed win against YB.
shysaursoft
Member
Via reddit, I thought this was hilarious:http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/..._pavilion_braham_explains_why_he_cut_scarlet/
I can just see the Anet writers: "There you go GW2 community. Shut up about it already!"
I can just see the Anet writers: "There you go GW2 community. Shut up about it already!"
Funnily enough, the last time I did Blitz she was the first to go down. I had to double check I read it right, people really do seem to miss the fact the big purple beams are healing her don't they.
Everyone that disagrees with Lurk have already moved themselves somewhere else at this point. The only thing was him continuing to tell people who are constantly outmanned to man up when they are spread across the borderland and getting hit at multiple points and he's sitting in EB with the map constantly queued and refusing to capture points out of spite yesterday or the day before as I'm heading it.
The problem is that most of our players constantly need some sort of leadership and EB is where everyone flocks to. As a result our server is actually handicapping itself because everyone is following a commander that is aiming for second.
The bottom line is that winning this match puts us at a strong 4th with a chance at 3rd but tanking this match puts us at a guaranteed 4th with a chance of falling to 5th or possibly worse since tie-breakers are determined by our server rating and we are already really hurting for those points as is.
I wondered what that was all about. I did like 4 races before I got the first achievement, I wasn't sure if it was bugged or intentional or I'd done something wrong. That explains it.
Oh is that what happened? I was following him last night for a little while, just trying to finish the tournament meta achievement, and for a while the zerg just ran between like 3 camps and the Ogres or something, passing shit we could have capped several times. We did get into some good fights but all he said when people asked was "you'd know what was going on if you were in TS!" Or maybe this is another time, I dunno. I should get in TS and get verified for SBI at some point.
How long is left on the Tournament Meta now? I still have four or five to get but I'm really close to them.
I don't really know or understand how WvW works to really make much of a comment on the whole throwing situation. But for me personally I'd rather everyone just try their best, it'd be better to go through and come last outta three with a chance to do better than throw it I say.
Ends May 30th.
hockeypuck
Member
If I'm understanding this correctly, by us losing to IoJ this week, we anticipate that next week's outcome will come out like this: IoJ third in their group and SBI second in their group and thus SBI gets 4th place in Silver League overall?
Kos Luftar
Member
People are hoping we win next week so for these two weeks we get a total of 8 points, instead of winning this week and getting 3rd next week for a total of 6 points.
The assumption is that in a match with HoD and FA we will surely be 3rd and a match vs YB and BP we may come in first.
Even if we do not beat YB next week we will still come in second which gets us total 6 for last 2 weeks, same as winning this week and coming 3rd next.
I don't mind flopping this week because we get that chance of getting 5 points next week where as if we win this we will have zero chance of 5 or 3 points next week.
Yeah, but worst case scenario is we can get 4 points if we get 2 vs 1. If we did win this week, the worst case scenario would be 6 points and it would give us for sure a Hero Mistforge weapon.
hockeypuck
Member
IIRC, IoJ and SBI are tied for total points, not including this week. IoJ wins this week, then gets third next week. SBI gets second this week, and VERY likely does not get first next week, maybe second. So IoJ and SBI would be tied for final points, right? Then IoJ wins tiebreaker. Are my points distribution correct, because I do not see SBI beating YB next week.
Edit: or maybe SBI wins tiebreaker, since SBI next week would have a stronger showing against YB compared to IoJ relatively crapping out against HoD and FA. This tanking strategy is only genius if SBI losing to YB still nets a higher server score compared to IoJ losing to HoD/FA.
Problem is that there is no guarantee that we will come out on top for the next match depending on who we get. Also, a lot of the people that regularly put in long hours don't like the idea of tanking because it shows others what kind of server we are when in the other match we locked IoJ down so well that CD could take second but are failing this time.
LumpOfCole
Member
It looks like IoJ is going to take this week.
If SBI gets 3rd place next week because of YB and BP teaming up against us (or, at least, YB targeting us instead of targeting BP), then SBI as a server deserves the 6th place finish and therefore inability to receive Mistforged Hero's weapons.
I hate the idea of tanking purposely so, so much.
If SBI gets 3rd place next week because of YB and BP teaming up against us (or, at least, YB targeting us instead of targeting BP), then SBI as a server deserves the 6th place finish and therefore inability to receive Mistforged Hero's weapons.
I hate the idea of tanking purposely so, so much.
Jest Chillin
Member
Ranking point meta gaming seems absolutely awful for server morale. I mean, in competitions with smaller teams where money is on the line, it makes sense. But for Server vs Server MMO PvP? There's too many other people who enjoy going out there and trying to win. Having the "leaders" of the server intentionally tank feels shitty to those people.
It actually works out quite well if you're not particularly invested in getting a full heroes skin.
Lurk isn't a leader; he's just the current popular NA prime time zerg commander who is constantly worried about his map queue disappearing if he fails since the sheep are fickle when it comes to failure. The bottom line is that you know we're having issues when even our resident troll guild is putting in work.
licktheenvelope
Member
I bragged about it in guild chat last night, but after dozens of Gauntlet fights, I finally got a bag that dropped something more than Festival Tokens.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monocle_%28light%29
It just sold today.
As someone who has never seen more than 20 gold at once I applaud you. *nod*
Mini Panda isawesome. It was soo expensive though! I doubt I'll manage to save up for the Gas Mask skin I want after buying that.
I guess in a way it was bought with the reward from the meta, so in a sense it is like picking that as a prize, but damn it still felt like an expensive transaction.
- Status