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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
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LumpOfCole
Member
That contract is Lex Luthor amounts of money.
hockeypuck
Member
Kinda stupid that the right side of the screen tells you what you've received before the actual Black Lion chest window does.
I swear by God and Sunny Jesus, someday I'm going to write the megapost to end all megaposts on how level design is becoming a lost art, with a big section on enemy placement.
However, that day is not today, so you guys are getting off easy with the TL;DR version.
One of the first people to really write on the subject of game design as a serious subject was Chris Crawford, who came up with the idea of describing all player actions as "verbs". Jump. Walk. Duck. Attack; all of the interactions the player has with the game world are verbs, and it is by using a small number of verbs in a variety of different contexts that a game begins to form.
The problem with most MMO players is that the only verb they want is "loot corpse." That the term "Trash mob" is endemic to MMOs is telling of both the community and the developers' willingness to let that community influence their design philosophies. The end result is a bar that's lowering so quickly it's almost in freefall. Edit: And no, Guild Wars 2 is not free of this issue either.
However, that day is not today, so you guys are getting off easy with the TL;DR version.
One of the first people to really write on the subject of game design as a serious subject was Chris Crawford, who came up with the idea of describing all player actions as "verbs". Jump. Walk. Duck. Attack; all of the interactions the player has with the game world are verbs, and it is by using a small number of verbs in a variety of different contexts that a game begins to form.
The problem with most MMO players is that the only verb they want is "loot corpse." That the term "Trash mob" is endemic to MMOs is telling of both the community and the developers' willingness to let that community influence their design philosophies. The end result is a bar that's lowering so quickly it's almost in freefall. Edit: And no, Guild Wars 2 is not free of this issue either.
Exactly. There is no solution to this problem, it cannot be fixed. MMO players are already deeply conditioned to seek the path of least resistance to get their rewards, so the genre is effectively broken. Any game that doesn't have a tight positive feedback loop is going to get dismissed as 'grindy' or having 'no endgame' (as Guild Wars 2 does, even though it throws more loot at the player than some ARPGs).
Making trash drop better loot won't solve it either, because then all enemies are effectively bosses, leading players to demand that the bosses get better loot because they are, by virtue of being bosses, harder, and should thus have greater rewards. Which means the regular enemies are "Trash" again.
The only option is to ignore the brats and just make the best damn game you can and hope enough gamers are on-board to keep you afloat in the sea of carefully constructed skinner boxes.
Interesting encounters do not have to take longer than trash mobs. They just have to be, well, more interesting. They can have low HP or be quick to kill, but with better tactics or gimmicks than just charging straight at you. One can look at Bungie combat encounters for an example of how to do good mob encounters.
Of course, then you get those who just want to charge straight at the mob and then complain when they die because the AI outplayed them.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah Carrion. Pow is just secondary, Con is its primary. I'll try carrying toolkit then.
So here is an amazing story .
Here i am finishing my armorsmithing leveling and i decided to toss the left over items in the Mystic Toilet.
While i am at it i decided to toss a few yellows in there as well and lo and behold what pops out :
Thank you toilet !
Even more amazing is that this was only my 3rd time tossing unwanted items in it .
I see a legendary in my future .
asdafsadafasdfgadsffa
You're comparing an FPS to an MMO. By virtue of "shooting guns is awesome", combat makes the game.
GW2 has awesome combat too, but they're different beasts. The combat facilitates the loot/item of desire, which you need to gather an amount to progress.
Interesting encounters cannot be placed as trash. Players will demand better loot and the cycle like Retro said will be anew.
Dungeons need to have scripted but evolving encounters so that entering the same dungeon twice feels totally fresh. This is something not currently possible in MMOs (yet).
I'm imagining a "difficulty adjustment" system that aggregates a number placed on each character and selects an appropriate difficulty for the party and changes mechanics based on that difficulty. Characters that have been running for a while will drag the difficulty up, which means they need to slow down and explain this is the "harder" version of the content a newbie in the group would see, and the rewards would alter based on that. If the newbie succeeds in helping and not dying, he gets the rewards the same as the group. If he doesn't, he gets his base level rewards he would have gotten if he entered with a full group of newbies. Win/win.
A Rougelike style random dungeon might be cool, like Fractals on steroids.
I feel that your emphasis on loot, while not unfounded, is a bit exaggerated. Yes, as an MMO GW2 has to have loot farm, but the combat in this game is better than just for loot alone. If so, PvP and WvW would not have any players. Also, better combat encounters would make loot farming more fun, instead of just being a mindless drag just for the rewards. Obviously I don't speak for a lot of people for the 2nd point.
I feel that your emphasis on loot, while not unfounded, is a bit exaggerated. Yes, as an MMO GW2 has to have loot farm, but the combat in this game is better than just for loot alone. If so, PvP and WvW would not have any players. Also, better combat encounters would make loot farming more fun, instead of just being a mindless drag just for the rewards. Obviously I don't speak for a lot of people for the 2nd point.
Ther Permanent Hair Style Contract... sold instantly on the TP for 4200 Gold. lol
opened a few black lion chests and that popped out of the 2nd one he opened. lol
Nemesis121
Member
shysaursoft
Member
Warframe does this. It literally unlocks new AI scripts, attacks, and more, based on group level and experience (number of times a zone is played). A boss encounter by a bunch of newbies, is tricky, but throw a few veterans into the mix and suddenly the boss has entirely new attacks and movements.
Exactly. Scale up the boss based on a "proficiency level" aggregate of all the players. Make encounters interesting. Boss getting pwned too hard? Re-evaluate the party and add a number to keep things on their toes at a % mark (random).
So what's everybody's thoughts on the International All Stars Tournament?
I cut down a ton of my original post, since it got to the point where I felt like I was either going to rush it and not describe my thoughts accurately or spend all night working on it. Now I kind of wish I hadn't, but I actually wanted to have dinner and maybe play some GW2 tonight.
I ran through a bunch of different genres and described how enemies are treated as obstacles you must overcome and not speed bumps on the way to loot. Mario's Goombas, Halo's Grunts, etc. are all 'fodder' enemies, but they're not 'trash'. Their placement is such throughout the entire game that you encounter them once or twice alone, and then in greater numbers, with other enemy types, in different environments, etc. A grunt in Halo can still kill you if they have the advantage, which any good game will constantly give them.
Maybe the most notorious enemy in all of gaming, the Medusa Head, is utterly simple; it floats up, it floats down, moving along a sine wave in a single direction. But that's all it has to do because it's placed in such a way that it can destroy you if you're not careful. Then it appears with other enemies, or in locations that make it difficult to avoid or destroy them. Not many games are content to be hallways and rooms where uninteresting enemies just hang around, and those that do (coughcallofdutycough) are usually considered sub-standard. But they're the gold standard in MMOs.
I think the biggest reason for that is the community, which has basically pushed developers to make dungeons quick, easy and rewarding. You look at a dungeon in WoW from Mists of Pandaria and it's basically hallways with bosses at the end, whereas 10 years ago you had something like Blackrock Depths. If you introduced a dungeon like that into an MMO now, heads would explode. Here, I made a visual;
Exhibit A:
Blackrock Depths, circa 2005 (left), Gate of the Setting Sun, circa 2012 (upper right), Simulation of player reaction, circa 1981 (lower right).
There's no reason we can't have "Trash Mobs" in an MMO that do interesting things other than it slows down players who just want to get loot as quickly as possible, and because MMO developers are constantly working on the game after release and interacting with the community, there's a constant push towards the lowest common denominator. "This is why we can't have nice things" and all that.
Obviously Guild Wars 2 is not immune as the dungeons have been brought down quite a bit since launch (AC Story especially). I will say, however, that they stick to their guns much more often than, say, Blizzard, who seem to kowtow to their official forums on a regular basis. But then again, WoW is popular for a reason and I doubt very much it has anything to do with difficulty.
Yep.
More randomization, more diversity in dungeon size / scope (I would be in favor of a new type of dungeon with a special designation that indicates it takes longer to complete). You don't need any kind of complex difficulty adjustment system ala Fractals, just more diversity and unpredictability. If players have to run something multiple times, each time should be at least a little different, right?
Actually, while we're on that subject, Fractals are a great example because most of them aren't filled with trash at all. Only the Dredge and Ascalon fractals really spring to mind, because the others (Cliffside especially) give their 'trash' purpose, if they have anything that even qualifies as trash. I think when we get new or revamped dungeons we'll see less trash and more encounters or events between bosses.
Ugh. Didn't want to do a Mega Post and I ended up doing one anyways.
Got my new rig up and running. I seriously love this case, the cable management is so much more competent than anything I've worked with in the past 
Still got a few more things to toss in there, and the case is begging for some mods.... but it's GW2-ready!
Box of Nails and Pry Bar are just ludicrously fun skills. Actually you're kind of making me want to try this build even though I don't much like grenades XD
It's not like this for me at all.
*cough* guardians ◔_◔ *cough*
Motherfucker. I mean, grats moddy. The keys are like right next to each other.
prizes are aaaaawwwwwwesome
sackboy2197
Member
The chest?
You still get the chest if there was one, and it counts towards your monthly puzzle jumper achievement, even if you did it already that month.
Icomp
Member
Got my new rig up and running. I seriously love this case, the cable management is so much more competent than anything I've worked with in the past
Still got a few more things to toss in there, and the case is begging for some mods.... but it's GW2-ready!
Glad to hear the new rig is all set up, I hope your past issues are now resolved. That does certainly look like one hell of a clean interior. My cables used to be well managed and hidden but then my PSU conked out and I got a cheapo replacement at a repair shop. The wires are a damn mess now. I need to get around to replacing it with something proper.
I'm still having my weird minimize issue with the game which still hasn't happened with other games. I really don't understand what's causing it.
I swear, you have the worst luck with PCs. It must be all that controller use, the console gods exact a heavy toll.
Kos Luftar
Member
Hawk is obviously bad at setting up pcs. Should just start buying ones already put together and possibly ask the computer store to install GW2 for him because there is no way someone can be this unlucky with computer parts.
The problem is the hawk not the computers.
The problem is the hawk not the computers.
Spehornoob
Member
I did Claw of Jormag for the first time ever last night. It was actually pretty fun. At least there was a little more to it than just zerging it like the Shatterer (which is a fight I hope they revamp sometime).
You should do Tequatl. It'll make the rest of the dragons look like child's play.
Spehornoob
Member
I've been meaning to but I keep forgetting to check when it's up. Do people still use the Events Websites/Apps to track these things?
Should do what I did. Bought all the parts and then drove to a Bestbuy and offered a Geek Squad kid $50 to put it together when his shift was over.
Yes, since World Bosses are still on set times.
I consider myself a very fortunate person in general, and I certainly don't think I'm prone to "why me?!" thoughts... but when it comes to computer hardware I have some of the worst luck of anyone I've ever heard of. I wish I could depict the sorry state my work laptop (which I'm typing this from and played gw2 from during the week) is in too. It takes over 4 minutes to boot into Windows. It's like technology is just out to get me. I don't get it. I take great care of them why won't they take care of meeee ;_;
A store did put this one together for me, the basic components anyway, including the mobo which is 99.5% likely the cause of this issue... specifically because I wanted to avoid having to do any RMAs or anything like this *sigh*
Tigerdirect claims they will handle this for me if I bring it back in. We'll see what happens.
man I went from no PC to amazing PC to no PC in the span of about 4 hours
lesson I am taking from this one: do not update your BIOS unless something is wrong. It can't possibly be worth the risk.
Mobo issues aside, after this setup I'm completely sold on modular PSUs. So so so much easier and more attractive.
SBI does daily TEQ runs at 8 PM EST.
If you want a table of wold boss events use this one :
http://gw2timer.com/?page=Chains
For Tequatl, what you'll want to do is log on ~20 minutes before the daily reset (so 7:40ish eastern time) so that you can go in with the SBI group that does it then. Or if you notice on a timer site that he's going to be up in 30 minutes or so at any other time, you could always use the lfg tool to look for taxis to an organized attempt.
I've seen the LFG tool used for some cool stuff lately in the top section, from world bosses to LW missions to Orr Temples to karka farming. Very neat addition to the game with the advantages of megaservers taken into account.
shysaursoft
Member
I think I'll go sigil of perception (precision stacking) on my thief's shortbow in addition to sigil of fire. I understand the war of power vs. precision has been decided conclusively in favor of the former. But for wvw roaming purposes, I need to burst my target under 50% health as quickly as possible. To that end I like the idea of a higher variance approach, with the option to thief away if the variance isn't in my favor.
I also have a tough choice on infiltrator's signet (initiative/stunbreak) vs agility (precision/cleanse). There's also the interaction with shadow's embrace trait (stealth cleanses) to consider, but can a thief have too much condition cleansing?
I also have a tough choice on infiltrator's signet (initiative/stunbreak) vs agility (precision/cleanse). There's also the interaction with shadow's embrace trait (stealth cleanses) to consider, but can a thief have too much condition cleansing?
I prefer Shadowstep as the stunbreak, since you can use it as a closer or an escape, or even both if the timing is short enough. Unless you're going be heavily relying on initiative, then even Roll for Initiative might be better for the slot, since it clears movement condis too. So you could use Agility, then another skill for stunbreak.
Also, those pictures are huge.
But nobody wants to be last post on the page .
It alway's gets ignored .
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