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[nataku]

If your sweetFX is broken , do what it says here.

Split install: Some games (mostly the ones using the Unreal Engine) needs to have a split install of SweetFX, where some files are put into the bin or bin32 subfolder

* The files to put in the subfolder are: d3d9.dll , dxgi.dll and injector.ini

I don't use sweetFX, but I do use the normal SMAA injector. Moving both d3d9.dll and injector.ini fixed the SMAA injector not working.

Anyone notice performance improvements mentioned in the feature pack blog? My FPS seems to be worse overall, probably because of all the minis now. I haven't tried a large scale battle yet, though, so maybe I'll see something there.

 

[Levyne]

If your sweetFX is broken , do what it says here.



I don't use sweetFX, but I do use the normal SMAA injector. Moving both d3d9.dll and injector.ini fixed the SMAA injector not working.

Neat. Thanks for passing this along.

 

[Retro]

They are marked as 'free to apply' in the wardrobe which is as weird as it is interesting.

Ah ha. Zenith Skins will only take you to 28,000 AP, I bet these are the next tier.

OK this is cool

 

[Trey]

What you said would be true if everybody was like you. Unfortunately, not everybody is like you.

Some 80 didn't even know how to dodge which is why they added daily dodger. Other examples, brown bear rangers and players that only stayed in fire EVER.

They have the data to back up the reasons for these changes. For us as veterans of the game and even seasoned gamers, it makes no sense, but for people who may be new to gaming or MMOs in general, it's something that can make or break whether or not they even make it out of the first zone. They have data that tells them for trials or new accounts when and where people quit. These changes are in response to that.

How does removing conditions from starter zone mobs teach someone how to deal with conditions?

 

[Zeroth]

Ah ha. Zenith Skins will only take you to 28,000 AP, I bet these are the next tier.

.

 

[shysaursoft]

The new dodge training events are *adorable*.

How does removing conditions from starter zone mobs teach someone how to deal with conditions?

How does overwhelming someone out the gate with information, help them more easily comprehend and understand? It might not be overwhelming for you or me, but I've met plenty of people who said GW2's start is too difficult, too broken, too much crap thrown at you, and they kept not being high enough level for "the next quest", etc.

Anet did focus testing and looked at data, and likely discovered that early players just had too much crap thrown at them, and so they're dialing it back and refocusing on certain things, like dodge.

These changes seem good, but the long-term affects remain to be seen.

 

[Mxrz]

Have three dungeon chests, close on two more. But Arah will likely never happen. Hrm. Also hooray for the fps boost.

 

[shysaursoft]

PSA: Don't quit your story chapter, it'll DC you.

 

[Hawkian]

Not to ruin iyour day but those are the names of the rare collection wweapons.

wait, what? what do you mean

 

[Mxrz]

Crafted a new set of exotic heavy armor. Selectable stats. Dark templar skin. level 68, but required 425 crafting and T6 materials. Weird.

* Looks like the trader(s) in some starter zones are missing. I was going to go to the official forums and make a snarky rage thread about my missing trader-friend in Wayfarer. But then I see all the stupid ass topics and over reactions, and . . no. Good grief.

** Urgh. Guild bank is missing in Ebonhawke now. Genuinely annoyed by this. If this isn't a glitch, then it is just adding extra load times. Not cool at all.

 

[Retro]

I couldn't help it, hammered out the Trash collection to get the Honorary Skritt title. <3

 

[shysaursoft]

Okay, I rolled a new level 1 to see how things are paced and unlocked, and I have to say - it's great. This is *really* going to help new players in the long run, it's much clearer, better guided, better paced.

 

[Ashodin]

I couldn't help it, hammered out the Trash collection to get the Honorary Skritt title. <3

Hardcore!!!!

 

[swnny]

Data mined from reddit, don't care if its posted before, but if it's anything remotely close to this http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior's_Isle (or the other treb themed GvG maps), I will lose my shit and overhype myself even more then I was before release!
Please ArenaNet, redeem yourself for the mediocre Conquest-only sPvP we've being playing for more then 2 years... PLEASE!

can't... resist... the.... hypee :O

 

[Kos Luftar]

So anyone noticed a performance boost?

 

[Morokh]

Collections are going to keep some people busy for a long time. I might worry about it more once all the big winter games have come and gone.

They certainly will, but what's worrying is HOW many of them will keep people 'busy'.

The ones like the Koutalophile one, or the ones entirely tied to crafting, or MF crafting are fine (although the rewards don't necessarily feel completely appropriate)

The ones that rely on items and skins that drop randomly are not, as their 'longevity' is artificially inflated by RNG and the speculative nature of the market on the TP, and that's a VERY bad way of making 'content' last in time.

Okay, I rolled a new level 1 to see how things are paced and unlocked, and I have to say - it's great. This is *really* going to help new players in the long run, it's much clearer, better guided, better paced.

What they seem to have forgotten though is that those changes also affect 'veteran' players, and/or players that already might have a fully leveled character.

With weapon skills level gated until level 10, starting areas dumbed down, personal story only starting at level 10, it will make starting leveling an alt even more tedious than it previously were (on top of the trait changes they made with the last feature pack).
It also affect player working on map completion.

Some of it should be an option.

The aspect of it I like is the fact that they made chapters out of the Personal story, because it makes much more sense, but making it start at level 10, especially when the first steps of it are certainly the most enjoyable, that I don't get.

 

[swnny]

So anyone noticed a performance boost?

I did a really quick test in just few zones and world bosses. While I'm alone (no nearby players) I saw like 10+ fps increase and framerate going from 70-75fps to 80+ in some zones. But in WvW zergs or just world bosses with huge amount of players, I actually notice performance decrease by 5 or more fps.
But not thinking about it, I'm not sure if the patch changed some of my graphic options... that may explain it.

 

[Levyne]

wooo


Now to fill all these new bars

 

[Boss Doggie]

Running around and buying spoons is weird.

I guess I should go run around and buy assorted items too.

 

[shysaursoft]

What they seem to have forgotten though is that those changes also affect 'veteran' players, and/or players that already might have a fully leveled character.

Veteran players know about tomes of knowledge, alternative ways to level, have level 20 scrolls, etc. Yes, these changes are of course going to rub the old guard the wrong way.

Tough titties, I say. I'd rather have new players have a better experience, than pander to the grumpy "veterans" who're never fucking happy anyway.

 

[spiritfox]

I guess i'm not a vet, since I don't have a lvl 20 scroll nor tomes of experience.

It would be nice if the lvl locks were an option that we can untick, so at least lvling alts wouldn't be such a chore.

 

[Hedge]

Yeah, I'm really dreading rolling any more alts - and I still have two character slots unfilled. The combination of the current trait system and the level-gated skill unlocks, the act of rolling a new character just seems wholly unappealing to me. Not to forget how downscaling is basically ruined.

 

[sackboy2197]

About the whole alts thing, what happens to the characters that are sub level 10 but not newly created? For example I have a Mesmer about level 8 (iirc) and I have already done some story quests and unlocked weapon skills.
How will it be affected by the changes?

 

[Hedge]

Tough titties, I say. I'd rather have new players have a better experience, than pander to the grumpy "veterans" who're never fucking happy anyway.

What a delightfully ignorant thing to say. Who are you to decide that people who find flaws in the new system automatically are "grumpy 'veterans' who're never fucking happy anyway"? What an easy way to dismiss other people's views.

I'm all for a better levelling experience, however, I find the current way it has been implemented to be full of flaws. For example, due to the way attributes are now given out, it has created some rather big power spikes - especially when downscaled. While it may be attributed to different tastes in play, i.e. wanting to feel levelling up as substantial instead of having attributes given out through a smooth curve, I feel it rather distasteful to lump all who give critique into the "grumpy 'veterans' who're never fucking happy anyway". Because if you find a problem, the problem is always yourself, right?

About the whole alts thing, what happens to the characters that are sub level 10 but not newly created? For example I have a Mesmer about level 8 (iirc) and I have already done some story quests and unlocked weapon skills.
How will it be affected by the changes?

My old key-run character has his story completed halfways through in his story-journal. You simply cannot progress until you're back at the required level, so no worries.

 

[leng jai]

Miktar's response to every criticism is the same. Everyone is a grump and just complaining for the sake of it.

 

[markot]

rdrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y

Whats going on at Anet? Feel pretty bad for them. Theyve lost the plot. (Get it? The plot sucks too)

 

[Retro]

They certainly will, but what's worrying is HOW many of them will keep people 'busy'.

The ones like the Koutalophile one, or the ones entirely tied to crafting, or MF crafting are fine (although the rewards don't necessarily feel completely appropriate)

The ones that rely on items and skins that drop randomly are not, as their 'longevity' is artificially inflated by RNG and the speculative nature of the market on the TP, and that's a VERY bad way of making 'content' last in time.

For folks who have to have something to do right now now now now, Collections are another series of bars to fill for the obsessive player.

For the folks who are otherwise sane, it's a perk to regular play that will eventually be filled in over time. For every "Get this item from the TP!" type collection, it looks like there's two "just get this random thing"-type. I really don't see it as a problem beyond the immediate mad rush (the price of certain exotic skins has surged, but it will come back down).

Since this wasn't intended as a content push but Collections kind of feel that way, having something like this slip in to extend the longevity of the game (not to mention this is a platform for future expansion) is just gravy to me.

What they seem to have forgotten though is that those changes also affect 'veteran' players, and/or players that already might have a fully leveled character.

With weapon skills level gated until level 10, starting areas dumbed down, personal story only starting at level 10, it will make starting leveling an alt even more tedious than it previously were (on top of the trait changes they made with the last feature pack).
It also affect player working on map completion.

Some of it should be an option.

The aspect of it I like is the fact that they made chapters out of the Personal story, because it makes much more sense, but making it start at level 10, especially when the first steps of it are certainly the most enjoyable, that I don't get.

I decided to give it a try myself. In the space of an hour I was level 10, had all of the major systems unlocked. It feels like the amount of XP you get for completing those early hearts is huge, and it pours like a geyser into your XP bar in a very visual, satisfying way. Hearts are illuminated and the new compass is actually really helpful in pointing you to the next objective.

The only complaints I have about the new early game? It doesn't pace things out enough. I noticed that you can see gathering nodes and skill challenges on your map before you've 'unlocked' them, and think those should be hidden until unlocked. Other than that, you level so damn quick I don't see how anyone could complain about being downed before it unlocks (I think you'd have to TRY to get killed). I'm a bit iffy on how late utility and elite skills unlock, but I'll actually, you know, try it first before I declare it The Worst Thing in the World™.

Also, and this cannot be stressed enough; ArenaNet has all the data and knows exactly who does what and when. The stories of people not using utility skills or dodging makes me wonder how they manage to tie their shoes in the morning too, but they're apparently out there and in numbers great enough to be a concern.

As a "Veteran", I'm not bothered by it, and even if I was I know ways to speed up the process or have things like Experience Scrolls to jump past the early levels if it did. Obviously YMMV, but I haven't found it too slow so far and it sounds like this sort of thing was needed.

I'm all for a better levelling experience, however, I find the current way it has been implemented to be full of flaws. For example, due to the way attributes are now given out, it has created some rather big power spikes - especially when downscaled. While it may be attributed to different tastes in play, i.e. wanting to feel levelling up as substantial instead of having attributes given out through a smooth curve, I feel it rather distasteful to lump all who give critique into the "grumpy 'veterans' who're never fucking happy anyway". Because if you find a problem, the problem is always yourself, right?

The people who take to Reddit / Map chat / Official Forums are 99.9% experienced players who have absolutely no concept of what it's like for a genuinely new player to experience an MMO. The "problem" is absolutely with them, because the new system isn't intended for them. It'd be like walking into a Kindergarten class as an adult and yelling "Come on!" every time the teacher tries to teach the alphabet. The problem is that the game more or less forces you through the hoops of kindergarten still, even if you know better, though so far it hasn't been a problem, at least to me. I'll keep leveling my new Charr Engineer and report back.

Are there problems with the new leveling system? Sure. I genuinely have never liked how Traits are implemented and I think the current setup is kind of a mess. Do I think elite skills need to be locked until Level 45? Probably not. I haven't noticed any problems with the way stats are handed out now. Feedback is important, but the majority of it has been "OH MY GOD THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER HOW DARE YOU!" from folks who just don't get it.

So yes, I think Miktar's absolutely right in that the "Grumpy Veteran" views shouldn't be given too much value; they're not the intended audience for these changes and have a habit of measuring every change to the game in a very selfish way. Remember that the players this will affect don't have a voice at all until they can muster the courage to /say something. I wouldn't be surprised if, given the way gaming communities treat new players, that they never stay long enough to do so, and that's a problem.

rdrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y

Whats going on at Anet? Feel pretty bad for them. Theyve lost the plot. (Get it? The plot sucks too)

You should ask for a refund. Oh wait....

 

[leng jai]

Didn't think it was possible but Anet have managed to make minis even more useless. Amazing.

 

[Hedge]

The people who take to Reddit / Map chat / Official Forums are 99.9% experienced players who have absolutely no concept of what it's like for a genuinely new player to experience an MMO. The "problem" is absolutely with them, because the new system isn't intended for them. It'd be like walking into a Kindergarten class as an adult and yelling "Come on!" every time the teacher tries to teach the alphabet. The problem is that the game more or less forces you through the hoops of kindergarten still, even if you know better, though so far it hasn't been a problem, at least to me. I'll keep leveling my new Charr Engineer and report back.

Are there problems with the new leveling system? Sure. I genuinely have never liked how Traits are implemented and I think the current setup is kind of a mess. Do I think elite skills need to be locked until Level 45? Probably not. I haven't noticed any problems with the way stats are handed out now. Feedback is important, but the majority of it has been "OH MY GOD THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER HOW DARE YOU!" from folks who just don't get it.

So yes, I think Miktar's absolutely right in that the "Grumpy Veteran" views shouldn't be given too much value; they're not the intended audience for these changes and have a habit of measuring every change to the game in a very selfish way. Remember that the players this will affect don't have a voice at all until they can muster the courage to /say something. I wouldn't be surprised if, given the way gaming communities treat new players, that they never stay long enough to do so, and that's a problem.

See this is interesting to me, because I'm not sure how you can argue the point that "you're not allowed to critique something that isn't intended to guide you" when it affects you as well.

I am arguing against the whole "if you're against this update, yarr you're a grump if you voice it!", because old "veteran" players are affected negatively. I'm not talking about the horrors of the UI or any other system which I can simply ignore because, hey, if it helps a new player then sure I'm for it.

I'm talking about the completely broken levelling system that actually makes your character weaker in downscaled areas. Are you telling me that Anet is intending to make a downscaled character reach a spike in power at level 30 and then get less and less stats due to the base stat decline of downscaling? Untill they reach another level where they gain stats and spike in power, only to have it decline again? This is a mechanic change that affects new players as well as old "grumpy veterans who are never satisfied".

I am arguing the fact that lumping all critique in under "grumpy old veterans" will do nothing good for the game, since hey, they actually play and enjoy the game too. It's about not dismissing anyone simply based on their status as "old players", but instead listen to their response and decide then how you feel about it.

I've read new and old players alike who see pro's and con's about the new system. But why the need to war against the others by giving them a tag that invalidates their opinion like Miktar does? That's not how you foster discussion. You listen to other people's arguments, because they're never on this or the other side. We're on the same side. We all want to play GW2. All our criticism is valuable, if we're able to articulate our points beyond "it's stupid". If I'm met with "you're just a grumpy old veteran" and my opinion is dismissed, is that grounds for a healthy discussion?

And honestly, by that logic none of us here who has played the game for an extended period of time were allowed to make observations then.

 

[Phazon]

Got pr and teaser image

The fate of Tyria hangs in the balance. The world&#8217;s races are uniting against the Elder Dragon Mordremoth. Their first lesson &#8211; there is no sanctuary.

At the culmination of the first half of Season 2, Tyria&#8217;s leaders had gathered for a secret summit at the Grove, at the base of the sylvari&#8217;s sacred Pale Tree. They proved an easy target for Mordremoth&#8217;s forces, facing a surprise attack by the Shadow of the Dragon.

Tyria&#8217;s heroes are now scattered across the world but in pursuit of one goal: how to bring the battle to Mordremoth. The secret may lie in a vision delivered by the Pale Tree moments after she was badly wounded by the Shadow of the Dragon.

What did the vision mean, and will a united Tyria be enough to thwart the threat from this powerful Elder Dragon?


(For those who want a source or proof this is real PR, here's the newsstory on my site: http://www.4gamers.be/screenshots/39506/1/Guild-Wars-2-hervat-Living-World-Season-2-in-november )

 

[Hedge]

Didn't think it was possible but Anet have managed to make minis even more useless. Amazing.

If you are talking of the culling and removal of minis in "populated areas", I think this is just a test phase to see how the system works in the free first. If I recall, it'll be worked on in the coming weeks.

But yes, it is a bit sad to be excited for easier access to minis, and then having them all removed suddenly because of culling - even with no other players around.

 

[Shanlei91]

Not sure if my client was glitching or if it's a "new feature" but I couldn't finish downed players off in PVP while my controller's right stick was in camera mode. I had to click f7 to get back into mouse mode, hover the mouse near the downed player and only then could I finish them off.

 

[Hedge]

The secret may lie in a vision delivered by the Pale Tree moments after she was badly wounded by the Shadow of the Dragon.

Awh, I was so happy that the story left it ambiguous whether or not the pale tree would survive, but this seems to remove doubts that she'll be just fine. I sort of wanted to see what happened to the established sylvari if that were to happen. I know it'd mess up the personal story, but it'd be interesting either way.

 

[markot]

Don't worry. They'll fix mini pathing and crap in the next FEATURE PATCH.

No change they have made will make it better or easier for new comers. All they needed was a better tutorial system.

Instead they just added new sinks.

Not a single change they have made since launch will make new comers slide into the game easier. They've just made it more tedious and removed any of the 'wonder'. Maybe that unlocks at level 30 now.

Calling us grumpy veterans ignores that we still know crap from decent design. I would hate to level now. And I've levelled every class to cap.

Anet is just swimming in bad decisions. But let's just legend the communities a bunch of grumps instead. Nice idea. I mean. It's not like we were new once.

But then when we are given feature packs that feature no features and just recycle stiff from a Chinese launch... Well. Don't expect much from these guys.

 

[Lunar15]

November 4th is a bit later than I expected. Oh well, it means my October is completely free for Bayonetta.

 

[Retro]

Didn't think it was possible but Anet have managed to make minis even more useless. Amazing.

I think the culling is set to be a little too sensitive, I've noticed when I get close to somebody they're hidden. I reported it as a bug, even if it technically isn't one it at least gives them feedback that it doesn't feel like it's working right.

See this is interesting to me, because I'm not sure how you can argue the point that "you're not allowed to critique something that isn't intended to guide you" when it affects you as well.

That's not what Miktar or I said. People can (and are) critiquing the hell out of the new changes, and I'm sure ArenaNet is probably reading it and will adjust as needed. What we're saying is that the "grumpy veterans" always look at everything from their perspective, which is often the only perspective they can imagine. It's the same as when ArenaNet doesn't announce sweeping PvP changes each update and they take to the internet to declare "ANet hates PVP;" not everything is build specifically with their individual wants, needs or (and this is the important part) skill level in mind.

In this case, the feedback you get from the experienced players is worth looking at, but what we're saying is that it cannot be given disproportionate weight because the experienced players are, by virtue of their experience, in a poor position to judge what new players need. If the data shows most players never make it to level 10 or never learn how to dodge roll, you don't ignore them just because Reddit is full of players who are level 80 and are bitching at the idea of a tutorial. There's also the danger of real, valuable feedback getting lost in the noise.

I've read new and old players alike who see pro's and con's about the new system. But why the need to war against the others by giving them a tag that invalidates their opinion like Miktar does? That's not how you foster discussion.

I can't speak for Miktar or his choice of words, but I would imagine it has to do with the "Grumpy Veterans" dominating the conversation. Map chat has been especially toxic towards people who seem to like the new changes, Reddit is the usual clusterfuck, etc. I can't speak to his situation, but it's probably a reaction to the amount of ugly feedback and tagging going on in-game and out.

No change they have made will make it better or easier for new comers. All they needed was a better tutorial system.

Instead they just added new sinks.

Here's a good example. I've played a new character up to level 10 and it's immediately obvious that it is absolutely better and easier for new players.There's an inclination to apply labels like "Grumpy veterans" in the face of hyperbole like this.

November 4th is a bit later than I expected. Oh well, it means my October is completely free for Bayonetta.

I imagine they'll add the Halloween stuff in between the WvW Tournament (which ends October 11th, I believe) and the last half of Season Two, sort of how they brought the Festival of the Four Winds and Jubilee back between the April Feature Patch and the first half.

 

[Hedge]

I can't speak for Miktar or his choice of words, but I would imagine it has to do with the "Grumpy Veterans" dominating the conversation. Map chat has been especially toxic towards people who seem to like the new changes, Reddit is the usual clusterfuck, etc. I can't speak to his situation, but it's probably a reaction to the amount of ugly feedback and tagging going on in-game and out.

I absolutely agree that the tone of the forums has been toxic, but I haven't seen anyone directly attacking each other personally over if the changes are good or bad. I can't speak for other people's experiences, however.
My problem was and still is with the dichotomy Miktar was putting up by making it an either/or situation. I'm pleading the fact that, though one might be frustrated, that discourse serves nothing but to antagonize.

A reaction or not, one should lead by being a good example. Just because you're filled to the brim with what you consider the "wrong", doesn't justify any comments you make. I just think it's an unhealthy way to have a discussion.

That's not what Miktar or I said. People can (and are) critiquing the hell out of the new changes, and I'm sure ArenaNet is probably reading it and will adjust as needed. What we're saying is that the "grumpy veterans" always look at everything from their perspective, which is often the only perspective they can imagine. It's the same as when ArenaNet doesn't announce sweeping PvP changes each update and they take to the internet to declare "ANet hates PVP;" not everything is build specifically with their individual wants, needs or (and this is the important part) skill level in mind.

In this case, the feedback you get from the experienced players is worth looking at, but what we're saying is that it cannot be given disproportionate weight because the experienced players are, by virtue of their experience, in a poor position to judge what new players need. If the data shows most players never make it to level 10 or never learn how to dodge roll, you don't ignore them just because Reddit is full of players who are level 80 and are bitching at the idea of a tutorial. There's also the danger of real, valuable feedback getting lost in the noise.

I apologize if that was what you were expressing earlier. I'm ill and my English proficiency tends to fluctuate heavily when I'm not feeling well - so I'm sorry!
I agree that there are a few players who lack the ability to see the value of systems for new players, but it's not because they are grumpy nor because of their veteran status. It was simply the fact that your critique was quickly lumped together with this group as "grumpy veterans who are never fucking happy anyway" is what irked me.
And still I don't believe grouping them together like that is accurate. People just have vastly different preferences and one isn't able to accomodate them all in one game. That doesn't mean they'll never "fucking be happy", it's just that the way they want to be rewarded now is no longer possible, or severely hampered. Again, I only object to the creation of this metaphysical group of "grumpy veterans", only to use them to dismiss arguments left and right.

 

[markot]

Yes. I was really scared I almost quit the first time I ran into a copper node at lvl 2.

And that time I saw a vista on the map. I broke my screen trying to clean this unknown agent off it.

I died once too and I didn't know what downed was so I assumed my character was dead forever so I deleted them.

Whatever. Moron's always defend stupid decisions in MMOs. See scarlet.

There are good ways to make this game easier to understand and get into. Anet hasn't used any of them.

And 'metrics' simply show a problem. Most mmos feature sharp drops of players who give up at early levels. Not because they're functionally retarded, but because they don't like any number of things in the game.

What does tying traits to stupid world events or map completion or shit do? What does giving players elites 10 levels later do? Level gating all this shit?... Etc... I could go. But who cares. Anet is in their bubble well and truly now. Happens to all mmo devs.

The tyranny of low expectations.

 

[Retro]

I absolutely agree that the tone of the forums has been toxic, but I haven't seen anyone attacking each other over if the changes are good or bad. I can't speak for other people's experiences, however.
My problem was and still is with the dichotomy Miktar was putting up by making it an either/or situation. I'm pleading the fact that, though one might be frustrated, that discourse serves nothing but to antagonize.

A reaction or not, one should lead by being a good example. Just because you're filled to the brim with what you consider the "wrong", doesn't justify any comments you make. I just think it's an unhealthy way to have a discussion.

That's absolutely fair, and I think there's a bit of a disconnect in that some of us are seeing parts of the community that others are not. Some people don't read reddit, turn on map chat, etc., and that's influencing their responses. For example, Morokh's post isn't particularly incendiary, but it does sort of "drive-by critique" the changes from one specific perspective (rolling alts) and conjures up the old "lazy devs" bit by implying ineptitude ("They seem to have forgotten..."). Having seen thread after thread of that this morning already, I can see exactly where a "drive-by dismissal" like Miktar's comes from. Two wrongs don't make a right, I'm just saying I get where both sides are coming from.

I also think this OT has also kind of become a "haven" of sorts where the responses are (usually) less trollish, hyperbolic or outright nasty and people tend to vent about the community at large. For example, beyond the usual ugliness, I've seen about a half dozen "threatening" posts on Reddit before they were removed this morning. There was even one that suggested sending poisoned cupcakes that would have been slightly amusing in its cartoon villainy were it not kind of scary how something cute the community has done could be twisted around to cause serious harm.

And still I don't believe there is such a group. People just have vastly different preferences and one isn't able to accomodate them all in one game. That doesn't mean they'll never "fucking be happy", it's just that the way they want to be rewarded now is no longer possible, or severely hampered. Again, I only object to the creation of this metaphysical group of "grumpy veterans", only to use them to dismiss arguments left and right.

There was an interview a couple years ago where they explicitly mentioned that most of the bitching on the official forums comes from the same hundred-or-so accounts, but because they dominate the conversation and drown out everything else, it appears to outsiders that the entire community is upset when it's actually a very small, vocal minority. In the same way that you can use custom tags with Reddit Expansion Suite to flag people and see how often they pop up again and again without having to memorize names. I think there absolutely is a "Grumpy Veteran" group, but it is much smaller than the volume of their commentary suggests. In the same way that we're constantly around 500 members but only 50-100 of them are chatty / regularly post in the OT / etc. Most people are so busy just playing the game and having a good time that their voices are never heard. It's sort of in the same vein as the players who can really benefit from these new changes never speak up. They just hit a wall and either quit out of frustration or fear of being mocked for asking a question. There's an enormous chunk of this game's community that keeps very quiet.

 

[Hawkian]

that's the way they teased the entrance to dry top in gates of maguuma, so hopefully a new zone is coming on nov. 4th

 

[flyinpiranha]

Yes. I was really scared I almost quit the first time I ran into a copper node at lvl 2.

And that time I saw a vista on the map. I broke my screen trying to clean this unknown agent off it.

I died once too and I didn't know what downed was so I assumed my character was dead forever so I deleted them.

Whatever. Moron's always defend stupid decisions in MMOs. See scarlet.

There are good ways to make this game easier to understand and get into. Anet hasn't used any of them.

And 'metrics' simply show a problem. Most mmos feature sharp drops of players who give up at early levels. Not because they're functionally retarded, but because they don't like any number of things in the game.

What does tying traits to stupid world events or map completion or shit do? What does giving players elites 10 levels later do? Level gating all this shit?... Etc... I could go. But who cares. Anet is in their bubble well and truly now. Happens to all mmo devs.

The tyranny of low expectations.

Well, my fiance who has never played a MMO would have fucking LOVED all these things, we started a week or so ago though, so she didn't get to see them. I had to explain downed state, explain nodes, explain how the weapons you actually equip and such. The tutorial sucked balls.

You've put more time into MMOs than the developers of these games so you cannot and will never have an "unbiased" opinion of how a beginner would look at these games.

Key assignments, leveling, all the flashes and buzzing when things happen at once is very disorienting for a person coming from playing SP RPGs and such, they hand hold A LOT more than what MMOs do because almost every MMO assumes you know "something about MMOs".

These are good changes. It's ridiculous that "old vets" are bitching about the beginning when half have scrolls, paths, understanding of the game that will easily get them to level 40 where the game continues as norm.

Shit, I'm an "old vet" because I put a few months in at launch and I FUCKING LOVE these changes, wish I would have jumped back in a couple weeks later. The new UI, the level up screen, all of it is much more readable and accessible.

Now, I'm not without judgment, I still think the "collections as content" part of the patch is pretty much bullshit, especially with half of it behind a paywall ... but the actual newbie shit they changed was needed. I even forgot about half the things since I've been away for over a year when leveling up my new character ... jumping back on my 80 guard I was like "wtf is this shit?" ... so starting a new character was a great thing, but some stuff was still confusing.

 

[Retro]

Now, I'm not without judgment, I still think the "collections as content" part of the patch is pretty much bullshit, especially with half of it behind a paywall ... but the actual newbie shit they changed was needed. I even forgot about half the things since I've been away for over a year when leveling up my new character ... jumping back on my 80 guard I was like "wtf is this shit?" ... so starting a new character was a great thing, but some stuff was still confusing.

There's still no tutorial for salvaging (the game should give you a salvage kit and some cheap salvageable items at level 8 or something), depositing materials (could be mentioned at the same time as salvaging since you'd be getting some just then anyways) or vendoring. I also can't help but feel like there could be an event like the dodge one where they teach you to revive downed NPCs or players.

I don't know that I would count the Collections thing as "content" though. I mean, it adds to the game and has given me something to do (I actually went to a lot of places I hadn't been in a while last night to do the Trash one), but at the same time it doesn't really feel like "content" so much as a new reward structure for the things we're already doing. I do think it was a bit of a mistake to implement ones that most players will flat out never be able to do because of the way the gem store works. I mean, I think it's cool that there's a reward for those folks who are grabbing all of the gem shop skins, but with the way gamers in general think ("If there's a bar to fill, I absolutely must fill it!") it probably would have been better to just not have those type of collections at all and just made it a cool scavenger hunt for dumb, off-the-beaten-path type things. Having to get an Ascended Trinket to do the spoon one is about as far as I would have gone, and I think even that is pushing it a tad.

I do think Collections are a platform for future expansion though. This and the back piece both sort of feel like they're trying things out, in exactly the same way that they tried a bunch of different ways to reduce zerging (Scarlet Invasions, Nightmare Tower, Marionette, etc.). The fruits of that particular experiment produced two amazingly good fights (Taco and Wurm) and probably shaped the way they design content in ways that aren't immediately obvious to us players (for example, the way Dry Top is set up makes it very anti-zerg if you want the best rewards, but not impossible if you're out playing alone).

 

[Kos Luftar]

Well, my fiance who has never played a MMO would have fucking LOVED all these things, we started a week or so ago though, so she didn't get to see them. I had to explain downed state, explain nodes, explain how the weapons you actually equip and such. The tutorial sucked balls.

You've put more time into MMOs than the developers of these games so you cannot and will never have an "unbiased" opinion of how a beginner would look at these games.

Key assignments, leveling, all the flashes and buzzing when things happen at once is very disorienting for a person coming from playing SP RPGs and such, they hand hold A LOT more than what MMOs do because almost every MMO assumes you know "something about MMOs".

These are good changes. It's ridiculous that "old vets" are bitching about the beginning when half have scrolls, paths, understanding of the game that will easily get them to level 40 where the game continues as norm.

Shit, I'm an "old vet" because I put a few months in at launch and I FUCKING LOVE these changes, wish I would have jumped back in a couple weeks later. The new UI, the level up screen, all of it is much more readable and accessible.

Now, I'm not without judgment, I still think the "collections as content" part of the patch is pretty much bullshit, especially with half of it behind a paywall ... but the actual newbie shit they changed was needed. I even forgot about half the things since I've been away for over a year when leveling up my new character ... jumping back on my 80 guard I was like "wtf is this shit?" ... so starting a new character was a great thing, but some stuff was still confusing.

This post pretty much tells me that the changes they made are good.

Can't wait to try the feature pack when I get back home.

 

[Levyne]

Yes. I was really scared I almost quit the first time I ran into a copper node at lvl 2.

And that time I saw a vista on the map. I broke my screen trying to clean this unknown agent off it.

I died once too and I didn't know what downed was so I assumed my character was dead forever so I deleted them.

Whatever. Moron's always defend stupid decisions in MMOs. See scarlet.

There are good ways to make this game easier to understand and get into. Anet hasn't used any of them.

And 'metrics' simply show a problem. Most mmos feature sharp drops of players who give up at early levels. Not because they're functionally retarded, but because they don't like any number of things in the game.

What does tying traits to stupid world events or map completion or shit do? What does giving players elites 10 levels later do? Level gating all this shit?... Etc... I could go. But who cares. Anet is in their bubble well and truly now. Happens to all mmo devs.

The tyranny of low expectations.

I agree with about half of the general sentiment, but what an inelegant and unconvincing way to frame your position.

Hyper exaggerated hypothetical anecdotes. Calling people moron's, apostrophe and all. Not providing examples of better ways to have implemented similar changes despite suggesting them as clearly better alternatives.

I do agree with the idea about whether Anet needed to put so much focus into these players who quit before level 10 or whatever. Lots of players quit games early. Look at trophy or achievement % of any offline game's first level or chapter. It's not much of a stretch, I don't think, to see a similar drop off in an mmo, especially one without a subscription. I'd think a lot of people would quit simple because they have other games or hobbies vying for time, not because the tutorial wasn't good enough.

Though seeing flying p's post shows at least one type of person who would and will benefit, so that's good to see.

 

[flyinpiranha]

There's still no tutorial for salvaging (the game should give you a salvage kit and some cheap salvageable items at level 8 or something), depositing materials (could be mentioned at the same time as salvaging since you'd be getting some just then anyways) or vendoring. I also can't help but feel like there could be an event like the dodge one where they teach you to revive downed NPCs or players.

Yep, definitely could use more. Hell, I'm still learning about combo fields.

This post pretty much tells me that the changes they made are good.

Can't wait to try the feature pack when I get back home.

Yeah, I completely understand people thinking it "dumbs down" the beginning because it does, it assumes the player knows little, but that's a good thing for new players!

It's sad, everywhere I go seems to be whining except for a few threads.

Here's basically what I've been coming across while trying to find "actual" good posts, lol:

 

[Retro]

Here's basically what I've been coming across while trying to find "actual" good posts, lol:]

Love it. And to be honest, after you read so much of that garbage over and over and over again (especially if you don't notice that it's the same people over and over and over again) it definitely affects your perception. "When you look into the abyss..." and all that.

I rolled a new character last night and just played and had an absolute blast. Lots of players running around trying things out, clumping up in those nice, informal groups where you sort of bond with strangers just by virtue of proximity and want to revive them and stay together. It was easy to forget the bitching, because the bitching is so meaningless against the big picture.

(and for the sake of clarity, bitching =/= valid criticism).

 

[CoffeeMan]

With Season 2 starting back November 4th,

That would mean Halloween should start October 21st (2 weeks before) unless they want to start it October 14th and let it run 3 weeks.

 

[Shanlei91]

Well, my fiance who has never played a MMO would have fucking LOVED all these things, we started a week or so ago though, so she didn't get to see them. I had to explain downed state, explain nodes, explain how the weapons you actually equip and such. The tutorial sucked balls.

You've put more time into MMOs than the developers of these games so you cannot and will never have an "unbiased" opinion of how a beginner would look at these games.

Key assignments, leveling, all the flashes and buzzing when things happen at once is very disorienting for a person coming from playing SP RPGs and such, they hand hold A LOT more than what MMOs do because almost every MMO assumes you know "something about MMOs".

These are good changes. It's ridiculous that "old vets" are bitching about the beginning when half have scrolls, paths, understanding of the game that will easily get them to level 40 where the game continues as norm.

Shit, I'm an "old vet" because I put a few months in at launch and I FUCKING LOVE these changes, wish I would have jumped back in a couple weeks later. The new UI, the level up screen, all of it is much more readable and accessible.

Now, I'm not without judgment, I still think the "collections as content" part of the patch is pretty much bullshit, especially with half of it behind a paywall ... but the actual newbie shit they changed was needed. I even forgot about half the things since I've been away for over a year when leveling up my new character ... jumping back on my 80 guard I was like "wtf is this shit?" ... so starting a new character was a great thing, but some stuff was still confusing.

My gf is torn with the experience she's having. Been playing for a month and decided to make a second character after the patch. While she's enjoying that the game is giving her clues on where to go and what is what, she finds the new weapon unlocking system dreadful. "I just clicked 1 for the entire tutorial...just clicked 1" When she realized story doesn't unlock until 10 she ended up using all the Tomes she had accumulated from PVP.

Spoiler

To be fair, I always found the early levels boring until weapon swapping

Those early levels sound far more boring now. The changes seem more like they just wanted to spread "achievements" across levels 1-80. They give a lot of tools from the start and I would say by the time you had your Elite in the old game, there wasn't much else to aim for other than "80".

But seriously...downed state "skill 3" unlocks at lvl 19. Did they really do that or is reddit exaggerating?

 

[shysaursoft]

What a delightfully ignorant thing to say.

It's been two years of grumpy veterans who are never happy.I simply ran out of fucks to give. I am not required by law, to give any more fucks over the people who are unhappy. If they are unhappy, they can quit. Just because someone is unhappy, doesn't mean I have to consider their incessant whining valid, even if they do have valid concerns.

If someone voices a concern in a constructive way, of course I will read it and consider it. I've read everything you've posted, and you've raised a lot of points. But I'm not talking about YOU. I never was. No need to act like I'm lumping you in with the grumpy veterans.

I don't need to hop on the reddit hate-train and choo choo my way to "Anet knows nothing" town every time someone brings up that they're unhappy. (Again, not talking about you). It's old, it's tired, it doesn't do anything. Just because someone doesn't hop on the hatewagon with the "group", doesn't mean they're an Anet buttbuddy or white knight. You raised a point that people are unhappy with the new levelling experience. My reply is, "yes, and most of them are just whining". Not all, of course. But I cannot care about everyone. My heart isn't that big.

I've got my own beef with the new levelling system, and I've been talking to people about it in game. I just don't have the need to go on forums and *whine*.

Miktar's response to every criticism is the same. Everyone is a grump and just complaining for the sake of it.

Bullshit, and you know it. I've chimed in on a lot of things Anet balked up, and have had my own complaints since day one. I'm just not an *asshole* about it. And I don't need to accept every asshole on reddit that thinks just because they have a grievance, that magically makes their opinions sacrosanct.

Negative criticism does not equal "truth", like so many people think.

My current state of mind puts a lot of the whining, crying, "omg ArenaNet proving once again their stupid" in the "baby with a wet diaper" category. Baby is upset, doesn't know why, and so it'll make the most noise, the most fuss, until it is once again happy. And ironically, half the time the people on reddit don't know WHAT they want, so they whine and complain, and when things are changed to match their demands, half of them "didn't want that!".

So screw it. I come to GW2's OT to find people who are enjoying the game, who, in spite of it's flaws and fuckups, still like it. Not to find more people like on reddit who want to write essay length diatribes about everything that's been done wrong. There's plenty of that on the official forums, on fan sites, in comment sections.

If the OT is just going to be an extension of the subreddit, why do we need the OT?

Obviously I'm not saying the OT can only be for superfans who whitewash over all problems, but there is a certain type of tone that just sets me off. And I've done it to someone else in here before, and I still feel bad about it, so I'm trying not to do it again.

Perhaps it's the whole #gamergate shitfest that's just put me in the wrong frame of mind to be what seems to be the required level of tolerant of other people's bulllshit.

This is what the reddit has become, back and fourth, with the roles reversing after every post:

A lot of people like to hide behind the "but we're a valid opinion with valid criticisms and ArenaNet should listen to me because I'm their playerbase", but in reality? They're just whining. And "gamers" love to enable that kind of thing, because nobody wants to be the "bad guy", nobody wants to go against the grain and be labelled a white knight, or worse, they don't want to tell someone else no, because then someone might tell THEM no.

So. If I come across as grumpy about people that love to bitch? Just put me on ignore, and be the happier for it. My own experience on GAF improved dramatically once I started putting people on ignore. It does suck, seeing half the posts made in a thread be hidden, but the quality of the experience benefits from it.

 

[spiritfox]

I agree, while there are things that could have been done better, bitching and death threats are not the way to go about fixing them. Can't we have a reasoned discourse anymore?