starting it around the 14th seems likely to me.
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Guild Wars 2 |OT4| The only subscription you need is this thread.
- Thread starter Retro
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flyinpiranha
Member
I could completely understand that. But having a month of playtime (probably level 80?) it still is a person with some experience.
Honestly, they should have an option when creating a character that you choose.
"My fiance made me play this with him"
and
"I left my fiance to have more time to farm my legendary"
I always felt that in almost every MMO, a lot of the bitching and moaning about superfluous stuff like 'tutorials' and such should just have an option. If you want it, it's there, if not, continue on your way.
UltimateIke
Member
Is that gate in the teaser screenshot the one at Fort Vandal with all of the level 80 Champion Bandits guarding it?
EDIT: http://youtu.be/2OqMWn62iDE?t=2m25s
EDIT: http://youtu.be/2OqMWn62iDE?t=2m25s
UltimateIke
Member
I'll always be excited for a new zone.
Gimme, gimme!
Gimme, gimme!
Yea sure and take the rest of the season to fully unlock it.
And lol at this 2 month mid-season break. At least more people are starting to finally get up in arms at ANET.
I'll take a several month season break if the story updates continue to be more substantial than they were last season.
I can't speak to the feature patch since I haven't tried anything out yet. I can say that they really turned me off starting new alts when they changed the way new characters gain traits, though. I'm not a grind guy, never was, never will be. It sounds like they changed the game to grind out a little more, probably because they found people were getting to 80 too fast or something. All of the changes were made with player retention in mind (collection achievements, spreading out skills/traits, more crafting objectives, etc.) This isn't inherently a bad thing, since people were actually asking for more stuff to do.
The Festival of the Four Winds kicked in five weeks before Season 2, so... wouldn't be a surprise at all, especially if they sneak some more returning content in with it.
In before "SAB!"
To be fair, they've been going by insanely fast. I've been purposely trying to approach it as a new player as much as possible (going exactly where it tells me, not doing anything it doesn't suggest like reviving downed NPCs for XP) and I blew through the first ten levels in about two hours.
Reddit isn't lying about that one though, and I kind of agree that they should unlock all at once (even though I can imagine for a new player that that's the last time you want to see a bunch of new stuff popping up all at once). I do agree that they tried to spread things out maybe a bit too much, but I also know that I've been playing games my entire life and MMOs for at least a third of that now, so this sort of stuff is second nature at this point.
That's kind of the point; we can't.
I don't think I'm leaking any kind of super secret or anything, but about a year ago (It was shortly after the new Tequatl fight was added) we were contacted by ArenaNet to participate in a "Guild Outreach" thing they wanted to try, where they were inviting guild leaders to speak directly to the developers on their private Teamspeak server. Jira and I were the ones who ended up going.
I can't remember for sure who was in there, but I do remember Regina Buenaobra (English Community Manager) sort of hosted it and Devon Carter (Content Designer) and Isaiah Cartwright (Game Designer) were there. Rubi Bayer (Social Media Coordinator) was there but didn't talk much, I think she was just listening in. Could have been a few others I'm just not remembering. The reason I'm listing the names is so you guys know this wasn't just "some PR guy" who was involved, but actual developers.
It was a fucking mess. One or two people basically talked over the others, interrupted people while they were talking (including the devs!), kept steering the conversation back to their pet peeves even when the developers had a very specific, unrelated topic to discuss, etc. Someone would start to say something and the same people would speak up, talking louder than the others, even in cases where the developers said "Does anyone else have any thoughts?". Jira and I both got in maybe four or five comments over the span of maybe 45 minutes to an hour, and you guys know how eager we both are to talk about this game at length. There was also quite a bit of disrespectful comments and tone and at one poin, the devs had to basically force people to move on because they were screaming in circles about Guild vs. Guild.
I remember sitting there, listening to the bile being poured directly into my ear and thinking "This is like having the Official Forums performed live." It was disappointing for both parties, you could hear it in their voices as the thing went on.
Now, that's as close to 'face-to-face' you can get with a game developer short of actually being face-to-face. If they couldn't maintain a reasoned level of discourse then, what hope is there for the giant, seething, anonymous beast?
I really don't get this Releasing method . i really don't !
Is it really Such a horrible thing: that instead of just tossing a new map at you they decide to do in parts in conjunction with the story ?
Would your fun in anyway be diminished ?
flyinpiranha
Member
Dammit ... still reading the forums ...
So, people bitching about the leveling system are most likely bitching about keyfarming? I don't get the complaints ...
Is this really impacting the "veterans"?, how slow do you have to be to not get to level 40 fairly quickly? My GF is absolutely new to MMOs and we've done it in about a week (level 35 or 36) and that has been A LOT of screwing around, not playing on many days due to kid and a new puppy ... very little time really actually 'trying' to level and it's coming along pretty quickly even while being inefficient. Honestly, I'd say about 3 or 4 "hardcore" days where we played for a few hours.
Maybe somebody can enlighten me. Do people re-roll characters so often that this impacts it? I don't see how this really slow downs the process of somebody "in the know".
I see "man, when I first started, getting new weapons, trying new skills was the best! Now I can't even do that until lvl 15" .... which you get in what? another hour or two of playing? The Elite being at 40 is the only one that truly doesn't make sense to me. I think you should have that earlier. But the rest? I honestly don't get it.
I honestly don't get how somebody can complain about the tutorial of a game when it actually improves the rate that the information is coming at you.
EDIT: Looks hostile, it isn't. I'm actually really curious about this. I see more people bitching about the beginning tutorial than they do "nerfs" to classes like the Warrior #2 move where it's lowered in damage by 5% or something.
So, people bitching about the leveling system are most likely bitching about keyfarming? I don't get the complaints ...
Is this really impacting the "veterans"?, how slow do you have to be to not get to level 40 fairly quickly? My GF is absolutely new to MMOs and we've done it in about a week (level 35 or 36) and that has been A LOT of screwing around, not playing on many days due to kid and a new puppy ... very little time really actually 'trying' to level and it's coming along pretty quickly even while being inefficient. Honestly, I'd say about 3 or 4 "hardcore" days where we played for a few hours.
Maybe somebody can enlighten me. Do people re-roll characters so often that this impacts it? I don't see how this really slow downs the process of somebody "in the know".
I see "man, when I first started, getting new weapons, trying new skills was the best! Now I can't even do that until lvl 15" .... which you get in what? another hour or two of playing? The Elite being at 40 is the only one that truly doesn't make sense to me. I think you should have that earlier. But the rest? I honestly don't get it.
I honestly don't get how somebody can complain about the tutorial of a game when it actually improves the rate that the information is coming at you.
EDIT: Looks hostile, it isn't. I'm actually really curious about this. I see more people bitching about the beginning tutorial than they do "nerfs" to classes like the Warrior #2 move where it's lowered in damage by 5% or something.
I actually kind of like the way they meted out Dry Top. Every area was large enough that it didn't feel tiny and the density of things to do was pretty high (story + events + coin hunt + buried chests) with a pretty good dose of extras (jumping puzzle, llama search) each time. Sprinkle in the little incidentals (new resources, new currency, etc.) and you've got a tasty gumbo.
Starting a new character last night and not immediately kicking her up to 20 and jumping back into my regular habits, I saw some parts of Plains of Ashford that I hadn't really noticed or appreciated before. The new heart they added in the northwest corner forces you to spend more than two seconds grabbing a POI and skill point. It's actually kind of a cool area visually, and I'm not sure if there are new events or just ones I had never seen before because I was blowing past them so quickly. There was one where you answer questions about each Charr legion until they select a champion (actually a veteran mob) that you fight. It was entirely lore-based (except for the fight, of course, but that was the next event in the chain), and completely new to me.
I honestly feel like doling out content in very healthy chunks gives you time to appreciate them, rather than blowing through everything that's an immediate objective and pushing into the next. That's always been my problem with MMO expansions too; they give you a huge chunk of content and the players just devour it as quickly as possible. At least with Dry Top I can say I know where everything is and have a pretty good idea how to get around. I've done World Completion twice and I still get lost in some zones or forget where specific things are.
I do think the pacing needs a little work though; two weeks felt just a tad too long, but one week feels too short. I know some people blew through "everything" in an hour, but for me it was usually a couple days at most. I still haven't done all of the Living World achievements. Glad I decide when I get to do them though, that's definitely a welcome change in my book.
Starting a new character last night and not immediately kicking her up to 20 and jumping back into my regular habits, I saw some parts of Plains of Ashford that I hadn't really noticed or appreciated before. The new heart they added in the northwest corner forces you to spend more than two seconds grabbing a POI and skill point. It's actually kind of a cool area visually, and I'm not sure if there are new events or just ones I had never seen before because I was blowing past them so quickly. There was one where you answer questions about each Charr legion until they select a champion (actually a veteran mob) that you fight. It was entirely lore-based (except for the fight, of course, but that was the next event in the chain), and completely new to me.
I honestly feel like doling out content in very healthy chunks gives you time to appreciate them, rather than blowing through everything that's an immediate objective and pushing into the next. That's always been my problem with MMO expansions too; they give you a huge chunk of content and the players just devour it as quickly as possible. At least with Dry Top I can say I know where everything is and have a pretty good idea how to get around. I've done World Completion twice and I still get lost in some zones or forget where specific things are.
I do think the pacing needs a little work though; two weeks felt just a tad too long, but one week feels too short. I know some people blew through "everything" in an hour, but for me it was usually a couple days at most. I still haven't done all of the Living World achievements. Glad I decide when I get to do them though, that's definitely a welcome change in my book.
About the Ranger buffs .
I AM OK WITH THIS !
The new official Ranger theme : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E
I AM OK WITH THIS !
The new official Ranger theme : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E
Ranger LB 2 with Quicking Zephyr is the bestest thing.
Also, I think the best thing for now is to just ignore the forums and Reddit for the next few days. The complainers will die down, and we can finally look at the changes with a more objective view, instead of just raging about changes because changes. I still think that they should have a way to disable level unlocks, so veteran players can just get all the slots from the beginning. You'll still have to get the skill points and unlock the major traits, but you can at least have access to all your utilities and class abilities.
Also, I think the best thing for now is to just ignore the forums and Reddit for the next few days. The complainers will die down, and we can finally look at the changes with a more objective view, instead of just raging about changes because changes. I still think that they should have a way to disable level unlocks, so veteran players can just get all the slots from the beginning. You'll still have to get the skill points and unlock the major traits, but you can at least have access to all your utilities and class abilities.
^^^ Holy shit, that's insane.
I'm sad because I only had one set of the original Wintersday Minis, which means I had to pick between keeping those three or mystic forging them to get Foostivoo. I hope they bring him back at some point.
Key farming is an entirely different ball of string, but there's obviously some overlap. Somebody in Guild Chat was saying that getting keys is actually easier now because all you have to do is get to level 10 and there are ways to do that quicker (crafting, for example), but I haven't tried it myself. I get that there's a bit of a 'speed run' thing going on, and I actually think if players value their money more than their time, that's kind of cool that they can get some gem store stuff (personally, I value time more than money since you can never get time back). I don't think their interests are more important than getting players through the early game now anymore than when WoW players were bitching about the "death of twinking" in low level PVP half a decade ago, however. But I do get the charm of trying to beat your previous time and getting a 'free' key, just not at the expense of other, potentially more important elements.
As far as Vets complaining about the early game stuff, it pretty much boils down to leveling alts.There's a lot of over-dramatic hyperbole, like "OMG U PRESS 1 THE ENTIRE TIME!!!! WAT HAPPENED 2 THE MANIFESTO, ANET, WHY DO I HAVE TO SWING A SWORD THEN SWING A SWORD AGAIN!?!?!?!111 LIERS!!!111" (yes this is an actual thread on Reddit), but you gain a level once you finish that little opening story segment so we're talking all of 3 or 4 minutes (in which you're also learning movement and camera control). For most experienced players, probably less. They also probably have some experience scrolls kicking around, or know how to play well enough that you can speed the process up substantially (remember, things like PVP and WvW aren't locked at low levels, they're just not immediately apparent). Someone mentioned last night that you have to "unlock" the Gems to Gold conversion at something like Level 59. The ability is always there, and always visible, the game just doesn't tell you it is.
I think a lot of it is being done by folks pissed about something else, so they latch onto anything they can bitch about and act concerned about it. You spend all of an hour without all 5 weapon skills unlocked, but some people are using a positive change that doesn't affect them to frame a "the developers have lost their way" argument.
I'm sad because I only had one set of the original Wintersday Minis, which means I had to pick between keeping those three or mystic forging them to get Foostivoo. I hope they bring him back at some point.
Key farming is an entirely different ball of string, but there's obviously some overlap. Somebody in Guild Chat was saying that getting keys is actually easier now because all you have to do is get to level 10 and there are ways to do that quicker (crafting, for example), but I haven't tried it myself. I get that there's a bit of a 'speed run' thing going on, and I actually think if players value their money more than their time, that's kind of cool that they can get some gem store stuff (personally, I value time more than money since you can never get time back). I don't think their interests are more important than getting players through the early game now anymore than when WoW players were bitching about the "death of twinking" in low level PVP half a decade ago, however. But I do get the charm of trying to beat your previous time and getting a 'free' key, just not at the expense of other, potentially more important elements.
As far as Vets complaining about the early game stuff, it pretty much boils down to leveling alts.There's a lot of over-dramatic hyperbole, like "OMG U PRESS 1 THE ENTIRE TIME!!!! WAT HAPPENED 2 THE MANIFESTO, ANET, WHY DO I HAVE TO SWING A SWORD THEN SWING A SWORD AGAIN!?!?!?!111 LIERS!!!111" (yes this is an actual thread on Reddit), but you gain a level once you finish that little opening story segment so we're talking all of 3 or 4 minutes (in which you're also learning movement and camera control). For most experienced players, probably less. They also probably have some experience scrolls kicking around, or know how to play well enough that you can speed the process up substantially (remember, things like PVP and WvW aren't locked at low levels, they're just not immediately apparent). Someone mentioned last night that you have to "unlock" the Gems to Gold conversion at something like Level 59. The ability is always there, and always visible, the game just doesn't tell you it is.
I think a lot of it is being done by folks pissed about something else, so they latch onto anything they can bitch about and act concerned about it. You spend all of an hour without all 5 weapon skills unlocked, but some people are using a positive change that doesn't affect them to frame a "the developers have lost their way" argument.
This is what I do, except I do it all the time. There isn't a lot of reasonable discourse there, and I don't mean that they're just all too pessimistic or whiny. It's just that the nature of that kind of setup doesn't allow for good viewpoints of varying opinions to be discussed.
I don't particularly feel the need to know what people on reddit think. It never added much to my experience, negatively or positively. I have no desire to go there to complain about the game, nor do I have a reason to go there to defend it.
/sigh. Mumble is down. Again.
Reddit was basically useful for news and to see what kind of cool stuff the community is doing (let's be honest; there's a lot of art / videos / etc. that's really cool). Now it's basically a version of the Official Forums where the mob mentality can also control what comments are most visible.
I tend to skim it now just to see if any of that stuff is around, but generally that gets pushed into oblivion or actively downvoted by the screaming horde. I don't particularly care what Reddit has to say (again, a very small part of the game's population feels the need to go on the internet and post about it), but the fact that ArenaNet validated it by addressing it directly kind of rubs me the wrong way. The community basically knows now that if it whines, threatens and harasses long enough and hard enough, it gets results. It's like a child throwing a tantrum, even negative attention is attention. Not that they'll influence the day-to-day development of the game, but it's still annoying to see every little change met with full-on cranked-to-11 rage now. As Piranha mentioned, they aren't even bitching about the nerfs to stuff like Warrior adrenaline or FGS, they're too busy finding fault with things that barely affect them. It's like... concern trolling. Think of the Lowbies!
Reddit was basically useful for news and to see what kind of cool stuff the community is doing (let's be honest; there's a lot of art / videos / etc. that's really cool). Now it's basically a version of the Official Forums where the mob mentality can also control what comments are most visible.
I tend to skim it now just to see if any of that stuff is around, but generally that gets pushed into oblivion or actively downvoted by the screaming horde. I don't particularly care what Reddit has to say (again, a very small part of the game's population feels the need to go on the internet and post about it), but the fact that ArenaNet validated it by addressing it directly kind of rubs me the wrong way. The community basically knows now that if it whines, threatens and harasses long enough and hard enough, it gets results. It's like a child throwing a tantrum, even negative attention is attention. Not that they'll influence the day-to-day development of the game, but it's still annoying to see every little change met with full-on cranked-to-11 rage now. As Piranha mentioned, they aren't even bitching about the nerfs to stuff like Warrior adrenaline or FGS, they're too busy finding fault with things that barely affect them. It's like... concern trolling. Think of the Lowbies!
I know i've said this before but in ways I do think this thread is getting worse. It really does feel like now that if you have criticisms of anything, then there's no point in posting because your just some dumb "veteran" player who is blinded to everything.
This thread almost seems to be trying to push the agenda that in GW2, everything is PERFECT. Nothing is wrong, and if you think something is wrong, then please, leave the thread.
This thread almost seems to be trying to push the agenda that in GW2, everything is PERFECT. Nothing is wrong, and if you think something is wrong, then please, leave the thread.
nothing has changed. it would be idiotic to claim everything is perfect let alone push it as an agenda. many criticisms are voiced, plenty in sarcastic fashion. no one is being told to leave.
shysaursoft
Member
It's been shown time and time again, with proof, that this simply isn't true. But people who *want* the thread to devolve into a big "we hate Arenanet" circlejerk, might obviously feel persecuted when their whining isn't treated as Words from God.
Look, we've all got valid complaints regarding GW2. Everyone in this thread has, at some point, gone on about something that personally irks them, and hopes it gets fixed. But OT threads for games are about enjoying the game, playing it, not sitting on the internet acting like a backseat game designer. Though don't tell Retro.
I never once said the concerns of any veteran players in the *thread* are invalid, only that the self-professed veterans on reddit are getting increasingly ridiculous, blinded by their own egos and desires, ignorant of anything outside the scope of what might directly improve their personal gaming experience. Which, from the sounds of their posting, was never that great to begin with.
Here's some realtalk. Perhaps the problem isn't the thread getting worse. Perhaps the problem is, the thread isn't being responsive to your personal needs. If you want to complain, go ahead, but that doesn't mean every post that complains about stuff has to be debated to death, especially when half the time people's complaints have been brought up before, several times, and discussed to deaaaaath.
Holy Trinity? Nuff said.
But I do think the players who are perpetually unhappy with the changes ArenaNet are making, *should* stop playing the game. It's clear they're not enjoying it, it's clear ArenaNet is not catering to their needs. So why are they sticking around? I know some of them are just hate-playing the game, so they can keep fueling their righteous indignation, but there are others that seem level headed and rational, yet, just never happy with the product. So why continue using the product?
This meme of "gaf gw2 hivemind only loves never hates" is getting old, right up there with "GAF is sony paid shills". Just because the majority of the people in the thread here are *enjoying* the game and don't want to complain more than they compliment, doesn't make this a place that's hostile to criticism of the game.
Because seriously. Do we want GW2 to become the "I quit GW2 ten years ago but I'm still here to complain about how bad it was and how ArenaNet still clearly has no idea what they're doing" thread? I saw enough of that crap with WoW, people posting on WoW sites and forums even though they've not enjoyed the game for years, or haven't played in years, but *insist* their dated opinions are totally valid and the only reason the game still sucks is because Blizzard hasn't personally responded to their specific demands.
GW2 being an MMO, means there is a massive, huge, wide variety of people playing it. But I'm rebelling against the narrative that the GW2 subreddit speaks for everyone, or that they're even a representative sampling of the playerbase.
No one is being told to leave directly, however you get the impression.
I mean hell, ArenaNet has even removed and changed the order of PS missions to the point where some things no longer make sense.
But what do I know? I'm just some dumb veteran player.
shysaursoft
Member
Gonna send as many of these pins to ArenaNet to match the number of cupcakes they recently got.
In other news, I have a picture of a Llama set as my desktop for all of this week.
No one here thinks GW2 is perfect. Plenty of us have our opinions on content we feel are not being fully appreciated, but I feel most of us realize screaming them and polluting any game discussion that may happen here will not change anything. I'm not sure if your complaint is aimed at specific people, but if your concern is that we are not complaining like the forums or reddit are... well, GAF has a multitude of opinions and unlike the karma system of reddit or the..forumness of the official forum, we don't enforce one type over the other or give more visibility to the flavor of the moment opinion. If anything, I feel what we have here is a discourse towards constructive criticism, which I find infinitely more useful than just crude criticism.
Speaking from personal experience in dealing with both types, constructive criticism is awesome because unfounded criticism is an easy way to create chaos and flames all over the place, both for people who agree and disagree with what is said. I like that when I come to the OT I find people who are willing to explain their positions and that only helps creating more organic and helpful discussions toward what the game can do and be.
that seems very stupid. I haven't experienced how the alterations to chapters 7 and 8 affect the narrative continuity firsthand, but it doesn't seem like you can reverse the order of the mission structure without breaking some things and I have no idea what that was necessary for.
This attitude is counterproductive. you're being just as dismissive of anyone who might have a counterargument.
flyinpiranha
Member
@Retro - Yeah, that's kind of what I am getting from it. People angry at the game and going on rants about how "it's been 2 years ... ".
That said, I'm part of the cash shop problem. Have purchased the axe and mining pick with unlimited charges as well as the salvage-o-matic. #NoRagrats
Man, I'm kind of jealous of the new players, ones that haven't played an MMO. This will be their "one" when they (if) move onto other games.
That said, I'm part of the cash shop problem. Have purchased the axe and mining pick with unlimited charges as well as the salvage-o-matic. #NoRagrats
Man, I'm kind of jealous of the new players, ones that haven't played an MMO. This will be their "one" when they (if) move onto other games.
shysaursoft
Member
*cough*
The following post is satire, semi-real or mostly fictitious. All words contained within are fake. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental.
I THINK IT'S STUPID THAT ARENANET DOESN'T HIDE HARVESTING NODES UNTIL HARVESTING UNLOCKS AT LEVEL 9, WHY SHOW THE NODES AT ALL IF YOU CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING WITH THEM UNTIL LEVEL 9?
I HAVE A LEVEL 80 FOR EVERY PROFESSION, THE CHANGES MADE TO THE LEVELLING EXPERIENCE ARE AWESOME AND NOW I WON'T GET TO ENJOY THEM BECAUSE I'VE ALREADY PLAYED THE GAME TOO MUCH.
THEY IMPROVED THE CRAFTING INTERFACE TO LET YOU CRAFT SUB-ITEMS BUT WHY NOT JUST LET ME CRAFT THE TOP-LEVEL AND AUTOMATICALLY CRAFT THE SUB-ITEMS OMG.
Yeah, I dunno about the Personal Story rearranging, because I've not personally played through every PS since the change, so I kinda gotta take people's word on it. So I take that with some salt. But if the changes do muck with the logical flow of events, I hope ArenaNet fixes it.
Level headed and rational discourse, with valid criticism explained and elaborated on in a civil, productive way.
The following post is satire, semi-real or mostly fictitious. All words contained within are fake. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental.
I THINK IT'S STUPID THAT ARENANET DOESN'T HIDE HARVESTING NODES UNTIL HARVESTING UNLOCKS AT LEVEL 9, WHY SHOW THE NODES AT ALL IF YOU CAN'T EVEN DO ANYTHING WITH THEM UNTIL LEVEL 9?
I HAVE A LEVEL 80 FOR EVERY PROFESSION, THE CHANGES MADE TO THE LEVELLING EXPERIENCE ARE AWESOME AND NOW I WON'T GET TO ENJOY THEM BECAUSE I'VE ALREADY PLAYED THE GAME TOO MUCH.
THEY IMPROVED THE CRAFTING INTERFACE TO LET YOU CRAFT SUB-ITEMS BUT WHY NOT JUST LET ME CRAFT THE TOP-LEVEL AND AUTOMATICALLY CRAFT THE SUB-ITEMS OMG.
These are actually some of my own personal pet peeves regarding the new player experience. Perhaps formatted this way, my complaints will seem more valid and real, instead of just being ignored. ;..;
Yeah, I dunno about the Personal Story rearranging, because I've not personally played through every PS since the change, so I kinda gotta take people's word on it. So I take that with some salt. But if the changes do muck with the logical flow of events, I hope ArenaNet fixes it.
Level headed and rational discourse, with valid criticism explained and elaborated on in a civil, productive way.
My girlfriend yelled "ARAH" the other morning, letting me know that she wanted to play Guild Wars.
Dude's a bad influence.
Except that there is a lot of criticism, it just happens that this thread is reasonable about it so it (usually) doesn't get drawn out into long, protracted arguments. I have a laundry list of things I dislike about the game, but we've discussed them and moved on until something changes and I bring them up again.
I think you're confusing "No one can ever criticize the game" with expecting a certain level of discourse. If all you bring to the table is a short burst of opinions passed off as facts and loaded with incendiary language, yeah, of course that sort of thing is met with the kind of response you're describing. As Levyne said just this morning; "I agree with about half of the general sentiment, but what an inelegant and unconvincing way to frame your position."
People can disagree and still be civil about it.
But OT threads for games are about enjoying the game, playing it, not sitting on the internet acting like a backseat game designer. Though don't tell Retro.
COME AT ME, BRO!
flyinpiranha
Member
Fuck that.
Well I gave the early levels a go.
From a really noob perspective I think there is more they could explain, if that's really their purpose, some important things are not covered like they maybe should (also no access to the hint panel if you want to check them again ?)
Quest rewards + extra explanations are nice though.
As someone who would level an alt, the whole thing is just boring, even with the sped up leveling, and that comes mostly because we've played the early game with more skills before and now they're restricted.
Having the option to revert back to something more like the old system at least for weapon skills once you've completed the first 10 levels at least once would do the trick fine. (allowing you to grab skill points at any level too)
You know, the good ol' 'Skip tutorial' option.
Short version of what was originally a bigger post since this thread went to shit while I was typing
From a really noob perspective I think there is more they could explain, if that's really their purpose, some important things are not covered like they maybe should (also no access to the hint panel if you want to check them again ?)
Quest rewards + extra explanations are nice though.
As someone who would level an alt, the whole thing is just boring, even with the sped up leveling, and that comes mostly because we've played the early game with more skills before and now they're restricted.
Having the option to revert back to something more like the old system at least for weapon skills once you've completed the first 10 levels at least once would do the trick fine. (allowing you to grab skill points at any level too)
You know, the good ol' 'Skip tutorial' option.
Short version of what was originally a bigger post since this thread went to shit while I was typing
LiveSpartan235
Neo Member
I think these changes were made for probably soon to be released Trial for GW2
Someone on reddit expained it better than me so I'll post his explanation.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g0qsn/my_theory_on_the_new_player_experience_changes/
Someone on reddit expained it better than me so I'll post his explanation.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g0qsn/my_theory_on_the_new_player_experience_changes/
shysaursoft
Member
100% with you on that, and with the idea that there needs to be a 'skip starter shit' button for people who already have a level 80. But for a complete and utter newcomer to the game and/or genre, I think a lot of the changes are going to benefit people. I've got a few friends who are now trying the game again and enjoying it more than the first time they did, because it - and this pains me to admit it - has a more "traditional" opening that they can digest better. It's more... WoW like.
But if it gets them playing the game, why should I complain? I'd rather have more people get into and enjoy the game, than try to pander too much to veterans. And I'm one of those veterans (a facet which seems to be ignored quite often). I also want new content, new shit to do. But I understand the value in getting the opening of the game better for new players. because I'm the one that benefits down the line when there's a fresh crop of 80s that understand and appreciate the game better.
Most sense I've seen all day.
shysaursoft
Member
Crap, double post. Have a Charr:
My biggest issue is that anytime someone does make a criticism about any changes, you get multiple long winded posts about how they're wrong. Every single time. It's never a: "I can see what you mean... but-,"
It's always a: "You're wrong and i'm going to show you how you're wrong."
shysaursoft
Member
I can see what you mean, but.
You're wrong.
Jokes aside: really. I do get where you're coming from, but I also feel you've kind of painted a picture of the thread's "zeitgeist" and now you're engaged in pure confirmation bias. You're ignoring posts where people agree with criticisms (they happen often), and are cherry-picking out the things that suit your narrative of "gw2hivemind only loves, never hates". Again, it has been proven several times, with examples, that people have brought up criticism. And then discussion happens.
Just because the discussion isn't 100% "omg you're right burn them at the stake for these trespasses", doesn't mean the discussion doesn't happen.
I'm not trying to pick on you or anything, but you raised the point, and this is what's known as a reply.
yikes
Dog Problems
Banned
Is the Drop Top area finished? I haven't actually been there yet or even kept up with the updates to it.
shysaursoft
Member
Seems so. It ended up being the size of Southsun, but a laid out a bit better with discreet mini-zones connected via specific bridges/funnels.
EDIT: I personally suspect it's done, and another Southsun sized area will be added over the remaining season, but I'm not sure if it'll connect to Dry Top, or be somewhere else.
not sure if it's totally finished, but it definitely has a lot of stuff in it at this point.
yeah, there's a big difference between a new player and a new character.
The level 20 scrolls will function as tutorial skips to some extent. i'm interested how the curve from 20-30 has been altered.
Dog Problems
Banned
Ok, cool. It probably sounds weird but I've been waiting for it to be complete before I went there.
After I'm done kicking Miktar's ass, I'm coming for your ass next.
Then your family's ass.
And your dog's ass.
And if you don't have a dog, I'm going to buy you a dog and let you grow to love him, just so I can kick your dog's ass and make you sad.
I totally get where this comes from, because I go through it every damn time I pick up a Zelda game. I don't disagree that the changes negatively impact existing players (though I do disagree just how negatively), but I also know that the game needed a better tutorial. Not just because the Devs say so (though I'm inclined to believe them), but because I've run with PUGs who I swear don't know how to play the game. Hell, the Berserker Meta could even be viewed as an extension of this, because players immediately latch onto tricks like stacking and burning down enemies quickly because they aren't aware of / don't understand things like dodging, control abilities, etc.
I think a "Skip Tutorial" option would be perfectly fine, as long as it's unlocked by something only an experienced player will have done. Players tend to mash the "Skip tutorial" button and then complain that the game never helps them.
I actually think it would be awesome if you could burn a Gift of Exploration to unlock all waypoints for a character. It would completely break the game, but then nobody should have a Gift of Exploration who doesn't understand that. Something similar with traits too. But new players seriously need a hand, and this is probably the best tutorial I've seen in an MMO (though I think Blizzard actually added in little cut-scenes with Cataclysm, so who knows).
I think you're confusing a discussion for a debate; it isn't a contest and there isn't a winner. In a rational discussion, Person A explains their position, Person B agrees / disagrees and explains why, Person A responds and so on. Eventually one person brings the other around to their way of thinking or they simply agree to disagree (or a mix of the two). If Person A just jumps in and says "Red is the worst color ever", Person B doesn't exactly have a whole lot to respond to; an opinion passed off as a fact, with no explanation. How exactly can he say "I can see what you mean, but..." when he's got nothing to work with?
We have discussions critical of the game all the time, they're just not hostile and they aren't built on little angry blurbs.
People broke out of the map and found that the zone extends just past the northern border of Brisban Wildlands. Dry Top ain't done yet.
Edit:
Frost Spirit is the worst skill ever!
See, comments like this, I tend to just ignore because I haven't tinkered around with any of the Ranger spirits For all I know, it probably is the worst skill in the game, but you won't see my arguing about it.
(Seriously, what did they do to Frost Spirit, now I'm curious).
I wanna be angry and outraged.
Mostly I'm just annoyed that I had unplayable lag yesterday and now the power's out. From what I could test initially though, the might stacking on my beastmaster axe was crazy.
But honestly guys, when GW2 disappoints me, I don't feel the urge to come tell y'all about it; I just go play other games. I don't need your validation to know when Anet made a bad design decision.
Mostly I'm just annoyed that I had unplayable lag yesterday and now the power's out. From what I could test initially though, the might stacking on my beastmaster axe was crazy.
But honestly guys, when GW2 disappoints me, I don't feel the urge to come tell y'all about it; I just go play other games. I don't need your validation to know when Anet made a bad design decision.
Confirmed, you can't stomp / revive / interact if you have right mouse button held down.
So basically anyone with AutoHotKey (i.e. plays with controller) is screwed until it's fixed.
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